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Obamacare Vs. Britain's Healthcare System

SuburbiaSurvivor
Posts: 872
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10/2/2013 4:31:36 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
My roommate is British and happens to think that Britain is better than America in every way including their healthcare. Which prompts me to start this thread: Is he right?

For the conservative posters: Why is privatized medicine superior to universal healthcare? Also, what are the negative societal implications if Obamacare is fully implemented that you fear the most? Finally, is our current healthcare system superior to Britain's and if so, why? If not, why?

For the liberal posters: Why is universal healthcare superior? What's the best way to implement universal healthcare while circumventing all of the issues conservative point out? Is Obamacare superior to Britain's healthcare system and if so, why? And if not, why?

DDO tends to be far more informative than a google search. So, here I am! I'd also appreciate it if you guys kept it civil: No insults. Sources would be absolutely wonderful.
"I'm going to tell you something that you're never going to forget, SuburbiaSurvivor. Women... Are just human beings"
cybertron1998
Posts: 5,818
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10/2/2013 4:38:55 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 10/2/2013 4:31:36 PM, SuburbiaSurvivor wrote:
My roommate is British and happens to think that Britain is better than America in every way including their healthcare. Which prompts me to start this thread: Is he right?

For the conservative posters: Why is privatized medicine superior to universal healthcare? Also, what are the negative societal implications if Obamacare is fully implemented that you fear the most? Finally, is our current healthcare system superior to Britain's and if so, why? If not, why?

For the liberal posters: Why is universal healthcare superior? What's the best way to implement universal healthcare while circumventing all of the issues conservative point out? Is Obamacare superior to Britain's healthcare system and if so, why? And if not, why?

DDO tends to be far more informative than a google search. So, here I am! I'd also appreciate it if you guys kept it civil: No insults. Sources would be absolutely wonderful.

Off topic but british military is by no means better than american military.
Epsilon: There are so many stories where some brave hero decides to give their life to save the day, and because of their sacrifice, the good guys win, the survivors all cheer, and everybody lives happily ever after. But the hero... never gets to see that ending. They'll never know if their sacrifice actually made a difference. They'll never know if the day was really saved. In the end, they just have to have faith.
TheHitchslap
Posts: 1,231
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10/2/2013 5:27:48 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 10/2/2013 4:31:36 PM, SuburbiaSurvivor wrote:
My roommate is British and happens to think that Britain is better than America in every way including their healthcare. Which prompts me to start this thread: Is he right?

For the conservative posters: Why is privatized medicine superior to universal healthcare? Also, what are the negative societal implications if Obamacare is fully implemented that you fear the most? Finally, is our current healthcare system superior to Britain's and if so, why? If not, why?

For the liberal posters: Why is universal healthcare superior?

Several reasons:
1) More cost effective, before we were spending 17% of GDP covering 85% of the people, when other countries who have UHC spend more like 12% and cover 100%

2) Philosophical: we live in an egalitarian society, and believe like the founders in equality socially, politically, civilly, and economically. The free-market theory (which relies on individualism, competition, voluntary transactions, and personal responsibility) runs completely contrary to healthcare principals (doctors ethics compels someone to be saved regardless of money).

So for example: In a free-market, if the consumer needed to purchase new shoes, s/he can walk up the street with money, and exchange that currency for the goods, although if s/he does not like the goods, they may leave and purchase shoes somewhere else. However, healthcare in a drastic situation does not in fact allow this. An example of this would be an unconscious stroke patient arrives at the emergency room via ambulance (which was not called by said patient), s/he cannot consent to the prices they are subjected to for the care either directly or indirectly, nor has s/he actually choose to enter the market in this case. Ergo the free-market cannot be used in healthcare. Coupled with doctors ethics and you have a system ripe for universal healthcare!

and 3) Other systems wouldn't cover everyone, the states fundamental assumptions for it's justification to stay around relies on it's ability to inject it's self into the economy when the health and safety of the community is in jeopardy. The Supreme Court has ruled "such restriction [on the Right of Contract is justified when the legislation] protected the community, health and safety, or vulnerable groups, as in the case of Muller v. Oregon" They also used this as a justification in West Coast Hotel v Parrish.

What's the best way to implement universal healthcare while circumventing all of the issues conservative point out?

Conservatives generally represent people who find themselves in an environment that thinks completely short-term and want to generate profits to keep stock-holders happy(CEO's). While there is nothing wrong with that, it does mean that healthcare legislation the kind Canada or the British has would be unlikely on a massive scale (even though this is actually more like Romney care than anything) ergo they will not accept it, even though it was 1) their idea, and 2) they could have championed it. It runs contrary to the interests of their constituents.

Is Obamacare superior to Britain's healthcare system and if so, why? And if not, why?

I think that's a little early, let's watch once it's fully implemented, let's not forget this bill is only 3 years old, and the GOP has attacked it over 40 times now, so the bill today may change tomorrow, and then can we judge it's impacts (once full implementation has occurred)

DDO tends to be far more informative than a google search. So, here I am! I'd also appreciate it if you guys kept it civil: No insults. Sources would be absolutely wonderful.

Done and done, if you want to see an example, here is a debate I did on it.

http://www.debate.org...
Thank you for voting!
YYW
Posts: 36,289
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10/2/2013 6:20:51 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 10/2/2013 4:31:36 PM, SuburbiaSurvivor wrote:
My roommate is British and happens to think that Britain is better than America in every way including their healthcare. Which prompts me to start this thread: Is he right?

lol... your poor ignorant friend. He should have a look at France. Norway is good too. Finland also. Germany, especially.

For the conservative posters: Why is privatized medicine superior to universal healthcare?

It is not. But, Obamacare is not universal health care. It's a clusterfucked policy designed to coerce people to buy insurance.

Also, what are the negative societal implications if Obamacare is fully implemented that you fear the most?

It will kill jobs, profoundly hurt the economy, and fail to address the real problems in health care: (1) too little supply, (2) too much demand, (3) racket-like health insurance corporations, (4) the artificially inflated costs of health care.

Finally, is our current healthcare system superior to Britain's and if so, why? If not, why?

For those who have really good group-rate health insurance in the US, American health care is among the best in the world. Obamacare offers nothing like that really good group rate insurance. British health care is the model not to follow in Europe. France, by contrast, is.

For the liberal posters: Why is universal healthcare superior?

Let me refer you to France.

What's the best way to implement universal healthcare while circumventing all of the issues conservative point out?

Break the insurance industry and flood the market with doctors/health care providers over the next decade.

Is Obamacare superior to Britain's healthcare system and if so, why? And if not, why?

No. See above.

DDO tends to be far more informative than a google search. So, here I am! I'd also appreciate it if you guys kept it civil: No insults. Sources would be absolutely wonderful.

Ok.
Tsar of DDO
SuburbiaSurvivor
Posts: 872
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10/2/2013 7:40:08 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
lol... your poor ignorant friend. He should have a look at France. Norway is good too. Finland also. Germany, especially.

Why is France better than Britain? I went to France and heard that the taxes were so high on petrol due to social services like healthcare that no one could afford driving. At least, that's what I heard in Paris.

For the conservative posters: Why is privatized medicine superior to universal healthcare?

It is not. But, Obamacare is not universal health care. It's a clusterfucked policy designed to coerce people to buy insurance.

Please expound? Why is it so flawed? How could it be fixed in order to be a successful universal healthcare system?

Also, what are the negative societal implications if Obamacare is fully implemented that you fear the most?

It will kill jobs, profoundly hurt the economy, and fail to address the real problems in health care: (1) too little supply, (2) too much demand, (3) racket-like health insurance corporations, (4) the artificially inflated costs of health care.

How will it kill jobs? How can we fix the lack of supply, surplus in demand, messed up insurance companies, and inflated costs of healthcare?

Finally, is our current healthcare system superior to Britain's and if so, why? If not, why?

For those who have really good group-rate health insurance in the US, American health care is among the best in the world. Obamacare offers nothing like that really good group rate insurance. British health care is the model not to follow in Europe. France, by contrast, is.

Please refer to my question regarding France, above.

For the liberal posters: Why is universal healthcare superior?

Let me refer you to France.

What's the best way to implement universal healthcare while circumventing all of the issues conservative point out?

Break the insurance industry and flood the market with doctors/health care providers over the next decade.

How can this be done? What would it look like to get rid of the insurance industry, while keeping a healthcare system in place?

Is Obamacare superior to Britain's healthcare system and if so, why? And if not, why?

No. See above.

DDO tends to be far more informative than a google search. So, here I am! I'd also appreciate it if you guys kept it civil: No insults. Sources would be absolutely wonderful.

Ok.

Thank you!
"I'm going to tell you something that you're never going to forget, SuburbiaSurvivor. Women... Are just human beings"
Doubleslitexperiment
Posts: 1
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10/8/2013 11:37:30 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
What you should have asked your British friend is would you like to live in America and I'm sure his answer would be no. So of course to a guy that likes Britain and is used to sub standard way of life with less freedom; his government controlled system would seem better. Here is a quote I found online discussing long wait times... http://math-cs.cns.uni.edu...

"Like any healthcare system the NHS isn't perfect. The main positive aspect of the NHS is that everyone has an equal opportunity for treatment regardless of socioeconomic status. However, having such broad coverage comes at a cost. That cost adds up to long waiting lists for treatment and surgery. In fact the waiting lists have become so long the the NHS has started paying for people to cross into the European Union for treatment. The main reason for such long waiting lists is that there are really no restrictions placed on services rendered especially in the area of hospitalization. All in all the NHS is still a respected and world-renowned healthcare system."

What you can see in Britain is a universal system on the decline, things are always great when everyone else is paying the tab but that doesn't work into perpetuity.
Most Americans are unfortunately ignorant themselves as they don't realize how great they have it. Granted the American system has many flaws itself but most of them come from government anyhow. Proper regulation could fix 90% of the current problem. Social programs always fail for 1 simple reason, no one person ever spends another persons money as frugal as his own. I am canadian and we have a decent health care system, I live in ontario and I pay 13% tax on almost everything I buy after I already pay about 40% on my salary. I hate going to the doctors because most of them are not great, rush you in and out, emergency visit your looking at 6-8 hours wait at 1am ... I remember last time I went a lady was getting reprimanded by a doctor because she had come the night before and after 5hours of waiting she left went home and called an ambulance in hopes that would get her access to a doctor. As a canadian all my real incentives are a new car or a nice house etc... At least in America if I work hard and do well I can get the best treatment for my family and myself. Sorry to turn this into a rant but many people holding up places like Canada, Britain, France etc... as great examples are misguided. I wanted to move to the USA but now I see it's turning into another Britain etc... no point anymore. Very sad times in the USA.
donald.keller
Posts: 3,709
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10/9/2013 6:46:26 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 10/2/2013 4:31:36 PM, SuburbiaSurvivor wrote:
My roommate is British and happens to think that Britain is better than America in every way including their healthcare. Which prompts me to start this thread: Is he right?

For the conservative posters: Why is privatized medicine superior to universal healthcare? Also, what are the negative societal implications if Obamacare is fully implemented that you fear the most? Finally, is our current healthcare system superior to Britain's and if so, why? If not, why?

For the liberal posters: Why is universal healthcare superior? What's the best way to implement universal healthcare while circumventing all of the issues conservative point out? Is Obamacare superior to Britain's healthcare system and if so, why? And if not, why?

DDO tends to be far more informative than a google search. So, here I am! I'd also appreciate it if you guys kept it civil: No insults. Sources would be absolutely wonderful.

The NHS in Britain is going bankrupt fast. It's also grandly abused by it's people.
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