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Obamacare -- ACA

Wallstreetatheist
Posts: 7,132
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10/5/2013 10:57:07 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
Obamacare is not opt-in. You can avoid a huge cigarette tax by not smoking, you can even theoretically avoid income tax by not working. But there is no way to avoid Obamacare. This is a different kind of force that the government has not employed before in history.
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Graincruncher
Posts: 2,799
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10/5/2013 11:03:02 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
I see. And in Paranoid Delusion Land does:

- Not working present a viable alternative?
- The government have the magical ability to take money from you when you do not have it?
- The right of a handful of frankly INSANE people to not have healthcare trump the right of a far larger number of people to have access to affordable healthcare?
- Any degree of government interference mean that all those countries which have far more of it have suddenly lost their extremely high quality universal healthcare systems?

The fuss being made over this is embarrassing to watch.
Wallstreetatheist
Posts: 7,132
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10/5/2013 11:30:32 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
My analysis was concentrated on the initiation of violence, nothing more, nothing less.

But I'd definitely like to hear your reasoning behind qualifying healthcare as a right.
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Primal Diet. Lifting. Reading. Psychedelics. Cold-Approach Pickup. Music.
Graincruncher
Posts: 2,799
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10/5/2013 12:01:38 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 10/5/2013 11:30:32 AM, Wallstreetatheist wrote:
My analysis was concentrated on the initiation of violence, nothing more, nothing less.

But I'd definitely like to hear your reasoning behind qualifying healthcare as a right.

Common human decency? A desire to mitigate the coercive power of private industry?

Suggesting there is an initiation of violence here is just hyperbolic rhetoric. Do you think people should NOT have access to healthcare? Is it desirable to give private industry the right to dictate who has access to what? Do you believe that it has that right? Why?
Khaos_Mage
Posts: 23,214
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10/5/2013 12:05:49 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 10/5/2013 12:01:38 PM, Graincruncher wrote:
At 10/5/2013 11:30:32 AM, Wallstreetatheist wrote:
My analysis was concentrated on the initiation of violence, nothing more, nothing less.

But I'd definitely like to hear your reasoning behind qualifying healthcare as a right.

Common human decency? A desire to mitigate the coercive power of private industry?

Suggesting there is an initiation of violence here is just hyperbolic rhetoric. Do you think people should NOT have access to healthcare? Is it desirable to give private industry the right to dictate who has access to what? Do you believe that it has that right? Why?

Do you believe that the government should force doctors to perform?
Your case seems to be founded on the fact that there are doctors. What if there weren't any, or a severe shortage? What then, with the private industries and rights to healthcare?
My work here is, finally, done.
Graincruncher
Posts: 2,799
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10/5/2013 12:10:02 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 10/5/2013 12:05:49 PM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
Do you believe that the government should force doctors to perform?

What?

Your case seems to be founded on the fact that there are doctors. What if there weren't any, or a severe shortage? What then, with the private industries and rights to healthcare?

Indeed. What if the universe blinked out of existence? That would also be an issue for my argument. There are doctors and the idea that there will suddenly be none is absolutely absurd.
Khaos_Mage
Posts: 23,214
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10/5/2013 12:11:06 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 10/5/2013 10:57:07 AM, Wallstreetatheist wrote:
Obamacare is not opt-in. You can avoid a huge cigarette tax by not smoking, you can even theoretically avoid income tax by not working. But there is no way to avoid Obamacare. This is a different kind of force that the government has not employed before in history.




I am not happy with the court ruling, but there is sort of precedence, I guess.
Take the energy credits that were offered a few years back. If you bought certain "green energy" items, like an efficient AC, furnace, windows, you would get a tax credit.

Without the tax credit, you pay more.
So, by not engaging in commerce, you pay more in taxes than you otherwise could have. I don't feel that the difference is slight enough to warrant such a bold line in the sand, because this is the only tax that is ADDED for not buying health insurance. All other tax scenarios to my knowledge are DECREASED in tax owed.

But I guess in both cases, you pay more for not engaging in commerce.
My work here is, finally, done.
Citrakayah
Posts: 1,500
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10/5/2013 5:48:27 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 10/5/2013 10:57:07 AM, Wallstreetatheist wrote:
Obamacare is not opt-in. You can avoid a huge cigarette tax by not smoking, you can even theoretically avoid income tax by not working. But there is no way to avoid Obamacare. This is a different kind of force that the government has not employed before in history.




People below a certain income line are exempted, if I remember correctly.
Wnope
Posts: 6,924
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10/5/2013 6:23:46 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 10/5/2013 10:57:07 AM, Wallstreetatheist wrote:
Obamacare is not opt-in. You can avoid a huge cigarette tax by not smoking, you can even theoretically avoid income tax by not working. But there is no way to avoid Obamacare. This is a different kind of force that the government has not employed before in history.




Someone really ought to have the Supreme Court look at this.