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Conspiracy to commit sedition

TheHitchslap
Posts: 1,231
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10/15/2013 2:01:41 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Fun fact:

In the US, it is actually illegal to try and shutdown the government ...

The actual law states:
"If two or more persons in any State or Territory, or in any place subject to the jurisdiction of the United States, conspire to overthrow, put down, or to destroy by force the Government of the United States, or to levy war against them, or to oppose by force the authority thereof, or by force to prevent, hinder, or delay the execution of any law of the United States, or by force to seize, take, or possess any property of the United States contrary to the authority thereof, they shall each be fined or imprisoned not more than 20 years, or both."

Another fun fact: no left-winged ideology has ever successfully pegged a right-winged regime with this charge...however, the Right HAS done so...

so if you ever hear another republican come after a democrat for being a tyrant.. think again.

What do you think of new petitions being sent to the US government over these accusations? Should republicans be openly charged?

http://www.credomobilize.com...
Thank you for voting!
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
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10/15/2013 2:21:24 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
"All Bills for raising Revenue shall originate in the House of Representatives; but the Senate may propose or concur with amendments as on other Bills."

-- U.S. Constitution, Article I, section 7, clause 1

"The Republican-controlled House of Representatives voted all the money required to keep all government activities going -- except for ObamaCare.

This is not a matter of opinion. You can check the Congressional Record."


-- Thomas Sowell (Economist)
http://m.townhall.com...
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Double_R
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10/15/2013 2:26:42 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
An amusing point, but nothing more. For the government, remaining open is contingent on having enough lawmakers in agreement on the terms and conditions of it's operation. Disagreeing with whatever proposals are presented is not illegal.
bossyburrito
Posts: 14,075
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10/15/2013 2:28:53 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.
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Double_R
Posts: 4,886
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10/15/2013 2:33:29 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 10/15/2013 2:21:24 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
"All Bills for raising Revenue shall originate in the House of Representatives; but the Senate may propose or concur with amendments as on other Bills."

-- U.S. Constitution, Article I, section 7, clause 1

"The Republican-controlled House of Representatives voted all the money required to keep all government activities going -- except for ObamaCare.

This is not a matter of opinion. You can check the Congressional Record."


-- Thomas Sowell (Economist)
http://m.townhall.com...

Geo, what the hell is wrong with you? Wnope and I are still waiting for your reply on the Tea Party conspiracy thread, and I am still waiting for your reply in the Mitch McConnell/Rand Paul caught lying thread. Every time you are faced with arguments refuting your nonsense "democrats are responsible for the shutdown" arguments you run away to a new thread and start all over again.

Stay in one place or just admit you are full if it.
Lordknukle
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10/15/2013 5:06:03 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Lol. Partisan hackery ftw.
"Easy is the descent to Avernus, for the door to the Underworld lies upon both day and night. But to retrace your steps and return to the breezes above- that's the task, that's the toil."
drhead
Posts: 1,475
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10/15/2013 5:07:37 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 10/15/2013 2:33:29 PM, Double_R wrote:
At 10/15/2013 2:21:24 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
"All Bills for raising Revenue shall originate in the House of Representatives; but the Senate may propose or concur with amendments as on other Bills."

-- U.S. Constitution, Article I, section 7, clause 1

"The Republican-controlled House of Representatives voted all the money required to keep all government activities going -- except for ObamaCare.

This is not a matter of opinion. You can check the Congressional Record."


-- Thomas Sowell (Economist)
http://m.townhall.com...

Geo, what the hell is wrong with you? Wnope and I are still waiting for your reply on the Tea Party conspiracy thread, and I am still waiting for your reply in the Mitch McConnell/Rand Paul caught lying thread. Every time you are faced with arguments refuting your nonsense "democrats are responsible for the shutdown" arguments you run away to a new thread and start all over again.

Stay in one place or just admit you are full if it.

I second this motion. If I remember correctly, I'm still waiting for him to show that he actually knows what the words "technocrat" and "transhumanist" mean. And that was several months ago.
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TheHitchslap
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10/15/2013 7:02:22 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 10/15/2013 5:06:03 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
Lol. Partisan hackery ftw.

Like you're not?
Get off your high-horse bro...
Thank you for voting!
TheHitchslap
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10/15/2013 7:04:57 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 10/15/2013 2:21:24 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
"All Bills for raising Revenue shall originate in the House of Representatives; but the Senate may propose or concur with amendments as on other Bills."

-- U.S. Constitution, Article I, section 7, clause 1

"The Republican-controlled House of Representatives voted all the money required to keep all government activities going -- except for ObamaCare.

This is not a matter of opinion. You can check the Congressional Record."


-- Thomas Sowell (Economist)
http://m.townhall.com...

.....okay? Constitution is irrelevant here and yeah you just admitted my point. You added nothing new here we already know republicans are to blame. The question was if they should be persecuted for it or not...
Thank you for voting!
Magic8000
Posts: 975
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10/15/2013 7:16:32 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 10/15/2013 2:21:24 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
"All Bills for raising Revenue shall originate in the House of Representatives; but the Senate may propose or concur with amendments as on other Bills."

-- U.S. Constitution, Article I, section 7, clause 1

"The Republican-controlled House of Representatives voted all the money required to keep all government activities going -- except for ObamaCare.

This is not a matter of opinion. You can check the Congressional Record."


-- Thomas Sowell (Economist)
http://m.townhall.com...

Geo, where do you get your weed? It seems like some awesome stuff.
404 coherent debate topic not found. Please restart the debate with clear resolution.

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dylancatlow
Posts: 12,255
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10/15/2013 7:21:58 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Not raising the debt ceiling =/= "by force to prevent, hinder, or delay the execution of any law of the United States."
slo1
Posts: 4,364
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10/15/2013 9:11:14 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 10/15/2013 2:01:41 PM, TheHitchslap wrote:
Fun fact:

In the US, it is actually illegal to try and shutdown the government ...

The actual law states:
"If two or more persons in any State or Territory, or in any place subject to the jurisdiction of the United States, conspire to overthrow, put down, or to destroy by force the Government of the United States, or to levy war against them, or to oppose by force the authority thereof, or by force to prevent, hinder, or delay the execution of any law of the United States, or by force to seize, take, or possess any property of the United States contrary to the authority thereof, they shall each be fined or imprisoned not more than 20 years, or both."

Another fun fact: no left-winged ideology has ever successfully pegged a right-winged regime with this charge...however, the Right HAS done so...

so if you ever hear another republican come after a democrat for being a tyrant.. think again.

What do you think of new petitions being sent to the US government over these accusations? Should republicans be openly charged?

http://www.credomobilize.com...

That is just silly to try to make a normal function of the legislative branch into sedition. The house has every right to not approve a budget bill for any reason the majority deems fit. That is the beauty of our system.

It gives power to minorities to force issues. That of course can be used for good or evil, but it is what makes this country great. Fundamentally minorities need some power to provide checks and balances. It protects the nation from the majority as the majority is not alway right.

Think about it. Each state gets two senators and equal weight in the Senate regardless of state population. It is why there is such a thing as a filibuster, electoral college, etc.
ConservativeAmerican
Posts: 1,676
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10/16/2013 6:44:00 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 10/15/2013 7:04:57 PM, TheHitchslap wrote:
At 10/15/2013 2:21:24 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
"All Bills for raising Revenue shall originate in the House of Representatives; but the Senate may propose or concur with amendments as on other Bills."

-- U.S. Constitution, Article I, section 7, clause 1

"The Republican-controlled House of Representatives voted all the money required to keep all government activities going -- except for ObamaCare.

This is not a matter of opinion. You can check the Congressional Record."


-- Thomas Sowell (Economist)
http://m.townhall.com...

.....okay? Constitution is irrelevant here and yeah you just admitted my point. You added nothing new here we already know republicans are to blame. The question was if they should be persecuted for it or not...

But since the democrats voted down the temporary spending bills to keep the government open, why wouldn't we prosecute them too? I personally do not get your point as both sides have at one point or another in this ordeal voted to essentially stop funding parts of the government, as Lord said, partisan hackery is obvious on your part.

And the constitution is relevant as it says what power(s) the government have, so since it is the House's job to pass spending bills, and they have done so, but they have been rejected by the Senate, who is really at fault?
ConservativeAmerican
Posts: 1,676
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10/16/2013 6:46:22 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
Btw I am only defending geo because 90% of the time he lacks the motivation to do so, but I really have never met a rightist bully on here, in fact there are only two bullies and they are both liberals;

TheHitchSlap
Imabench

I really am not interested in this site all that much any more because I spend enough time on the debate team in real life, but I really feel like before I go I will do one last thing;

Put these two kids in their respective places.
TheHitchslap
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10/16/2013 1:01:15 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 10/16/2013 6:44:00 AM, ConservativeAmerican wrote:
At 10/15/2013 7:04:57 PM, TheHitchslap wrote:
At 10/15/2013 2:21:24 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
"All Bills for raising Revenue shall originate in the House of Representatives; but the Senate may propose or concur with amendments as on other Bills."

-- U.S. Constitution, Article I, section 7, clause 1

"The Republican-controlled House of Representatives voted all the money required to keep all government activities going -- except for ObamaCare.

This is not a matter of opinion. You can check the Congressional Record."


-- Thomas Sowell (Economist)
http://m.townhall.com...

.....okay? Constitution is irrelevant here and yeah you just admitted my point. You added nothing new here we already know republicans are to blame. The question was if they should be persecuted for it or not...

But since the democrats voted down the temporary spending bills to keep the government open, why wouldn't we prosecute them too? I personally do not get your point as both sides have at one point or another in this ordeal voted to essentially stop funding parts of the government, as Lord said, partisan hackery is obvious on your part.

The fact is Reid and Boheiner had a deal, and the republican caucus decided (in B's own words) that "The threat of Obamacare was simply too great, and we decided to take a stand"

I also never admitted nor claimed to be objective, I only noted that Lord is the pot calling the kettle black being an anarchist...
And what about you for that matter?
I was trying to simply facilitate discussion, and I'm finding that the right simply cannot defend their positions anymore...

And the constitution is relevant as it says what power(s) the government have, so since it is the House's job to pass spending bills, and they have done so, but they have been rejected by the Senate, who is really at fault?

fair enough
Thank you for voting!
TheHitchslap
Posts: 1,231
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10/16/2013 1:06:46 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 10/16/2013 6:46:22 AM, ConservativeAmerican wrote:
Btw I am only defending geo because 90% of the time he lacks the motivation to do so, but I really have never met a rightist bully on here, in fact there are only two bullies and they are both liberals;

TheHitchSlap
Imabench

LOL

If by bullying you mean standing up to the massive conservative bias here on DDO, and not tolerating stupidity the right espouses then sure.

Haven't you ever noticed that we might disagree with people like Thett, Roy, or 16k, but we never were disrespectful to them? That's because they actually back up what they're saying, and they don't make outlandish claims that most right-wingers make (such as rape is a gift from god, or that minimum wage equates to a eugenics program)

And finally, nice way to defamate my character. If you make a claim like that against me or Imabench, I'm coming after you.

I really am not interested in this site all that much any more because I spend enough time on the debate team in real life, but I really feel like before I go I will do one last thing;

Put these two kids in their respective places.

Funny, because I remember putting you in yours!

http://4.bp.blogspot.com...
Thank you for voting!
ConservativeAmerican
Posts: 1,676
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10/16/2013 1:12:00 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 10/16/2013 1:01:15 PM, TheHitchslap wrote:
At 10/16/2013 6:44:00 AM, ConservativeAmerican wrote:
At 10/15/2013 7:04:57 PM, TheHitchslap wrote:
At 10/15/2013 2:21:24 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
"All Bills for raising Revenue shall originate in the House of Representatives; but the Senate may propose or concur with amendments as on other Bills."

-- U.S. Constitution, Article I, section 7, clause 1

"The Republican-controlled House of Representatives voted all the money required to keep all government activities going -- except for ObamaCare.

This is not a matter of opinion. You can check the Congressional Record."


-- Thomas Sowell (Economist)
http://m.townhall.com...

.....okay? Constitution is irrelevant here and yeah you just admitted my point. You added nothing new here we already know republicans are to blame. The question was if they should be persecuted for it or not...

But since the democrats voted down the temporary spending bills to keep the government open, why wouldn't we prosecute them too? I personally do not get your point as both sides have at one point or another in this ordeal voted to essentially stop funding parts of the government, as Lord said, partisan hackery is obvious on your part.

The fact is Reid and Boheiner had a deal, and the republican caucus decided (in B's own words) that "The threat of Obamacare was simply too great, and we decided to take a stand"

I also never admitted nor claimed to be objective, I only noted that Lord is the pot calling the kettle black being an anarchist...
And what about you for that matter?
I was trying to simply facilitate discussion, and I'm finding that the right simply cannot defend their positions anymore...

I am not saying that either side is wrong or right, just that the GOP isn't doing anything that is illegal or even close to sedition that the democrats aren't also doing. I really don't get in to party politics as they are usually petty, defending an ideology makes it so you don't have to pigeon hole a group of people and turn debates about individuals in to who can pigeon hole the other person the best in to a cookie cutout of a typical __

And the constitution is relevant as it says what power(s) the government have, so since it is the House's job to pass spending bills, and they have done so, but they have been rejected by the Senate, who is really at fault?

fair enough
ConservativeAmerican
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10/16/2013 1:16:17 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 10/16/2013 1:06:46 PM, TheHitchslap wrote:
At 10/16/2013 6:46:22 AM, ConservativeAmerican wrote:
Btw I am only defending geo because 90% of the time he lacks the motivation to do so, but I really have never met a rightist bully on here, in fact there are only two bullies and they are both liberals;

TheHitchSlap
Imabench

LOL

If by bullying you mean standing up to the massive conservative bias here on DDO, and not tolerating stupidity the right espouses then sure.

Haven't you ever noticed that we might disagree with people like Thett, Roy, or 16k, but we never were disrespectful to them? That's because they actually back up what they're saying, and they don't make outlandish claims that most right-wingers make (such as rape is a gift from god, or that minimum wage equates to a eugenics program)

So when you say that members of congress should be prosecuted for sedition (obviously referring to republicans and conveniently forgetting that dems also voted to defund certain parts of the government in the Senate) you are the poor soul under attack? woe is me.

And finally, nice way to defamate my character. If you make a claim like that against me or Imabench, I'm coming after you.

Mk, just try not to make it so easy for me next time by making posts like this.

I really am not interested in this site all that much any more because I spend enough time on the debate team in real life, but I really feel like before I go I will do one last thing;

Put these two kids in their respective places.

Funny, because I remember putting you in yours!

http://4.bp.blogspot.com...

-forefits a debate due to time constraints-

-putting me in my place-

k
TheHitchslap
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10/16/2013 6:59:49 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 10/16/2013 1:16:17 PM, ConservativeAmerican wrote:
At 10/16/2013 1:06:46 PM, TheHitchslap wrote:
At 10/16/2013 6:46:22 AM, ConservativeAmerican wrote:
Btw I am only defending geo because 90% of the time he lacks the motivation to do so, but I really have never met a rightist bully on here, in fact there are only two bullies and they are both liberals;

TheHitchSlap
Imabench

LOL

If by bullying you mean standing up to the massive conservative bias here on DDO, and not tolerating stupidity the right espouses then sure.

Haven't you ever noticed that we might disagree with people like Thett, Roy, or 16k, but we never were disrespectful to them? That's because they actually back up what they're saying, and they don't make outlandish claims that most right-wingers make (such as rape is a gift from god, or that minimum wage equates to a eugenics program)

So when you say that members of congress should be prosecuted for sedition (obviously referring to republicans and conveniently forgetting that dems also voted to defund certain parts of the government in the Senate) you are the poor soul under attack? woe is me.

I never said that's what I thought, I simply noted a petition was in the works online that was asking for it, and again to encourage discussion I posted it here asking for thoughts. Are you illiterate or something? You're falsely assuming that I agree with this because I'm a well noted democrat on this site. I never gave an opinion on the issue. See? It's YOU attacking ME.

And finally, nice way to defamate my character. If you make a claim like that against me or Imabench, I'm coming after you.

Mk, just try not to make it so easy for me next time by making posts like this.

You're arrogance is showing, and judging by your elo .. you ain't earned it son.

I really am not interested in this site all that much any more because I spend enough time on the debate team in real life, but I really feel like before I go I will do one last thing;

Put these two kids in their respective places.

Funny, because I remember putting you in yours!

http://4.bp.blogspot.com...

-forefits a debate due to time constraints-

-putting me in my place-

k

You popped off at me, and I took you down. You got too cocky and it blew up in your face. End of story.
Thank you for voting!
imabench
Posts: 21,230
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10/16/2013 9:08:07 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 10/16/2013 6:46:22 AM, ConservativeAmerican wrote:
Btw I am only defending geo because 90% of the time he lacks the motivation to do so, but I really have never met a rightist bully on here, in fact there are only two bullies and they are both liberals;

TheHitchSlap
Imabench

I really am not interested in this site all that much any more because I spend enough time on the debate team in real life, but I really feel like before I go I will do one last thing;

Put these two kids in their respective places.

Looks like there's someone else besides Geo who struggles with a retarded perception of reality. Welcome to the crazy train CA, you'll fit right in with all the other crazy idiots. Hell you were already halfway there to begin with
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RoyLatham
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10/16/2013 9:47:09 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Last I checked, legal actions contrary to the wishes of Our Dear Leader do not amount to sedition.

What leftists cannot get a grip on is that the whole system is set up by the Constitution to require not just 51%, but a measure of consensus to govern. For example, the Senate is not elected in proportion to population while the House is proportionate. that sets up a tension between rural and urban states. In parliamentary systems, the prime minister is elected by the majority party, so that there is no conflict of wills. The US is deliberately designed so that conflicting viewpoints are the norm. The House is closest to the people, so they have more say in money matters.

The way Reagan, Clinton, and Bush solved the problem was to negotiate with the opposition and work out a compromise. Reagan worked with Tip O'Neill to pass social security reform. Clinton worked with Gingrich to get a balanced budget and welfare reform. Bush worked with Teddy Kennedy to get a prescription drug entitlement. The idea of that Obama has a right to be an uncompromising imperial ruler is entirely novel.
imabench
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10/16/2013 9:50:52 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 10/16/2013 9:47:09 PM, RoyLatham wrote:
Last I checked, legal actions contrary to the wishes of Our Dear Leader do not amount to sedition.

What leftists cannot get a grip on is that the whole system is set up by the Constitution to require not just 51%, but a measure of consensus to govern. For example, the Senate is not elected in proportion to population while the House is proportionate. that sets up a tension between rural and urban states. In parliamentary systems, the prime minister is elected by the majority party, so that there is no conflict of wills. The US is deliberately designed so that conflicting viewpoints are the norm. The House is closest to the people, so they have more say in money matters.

The way Reagan, Clinton, and Bush solved the problem was to negotiate with the opposition and work out a compromise. Reagan worked with Tip O'Neill to pass social security reform. Clinton worked with Gingrich to get a balanced budget and welfare reform. Bush worked with Teddy Kennedy to get a prescription drug entitlement. The idea of that Obama has a right to be an uncompromising imperial ruler is entirely novel.

No one is going to say that Obama has a good history of compromising on issues but im pretty sure that a big reason why thats the case is because the GOP have been acting pretty stubborn to say the least
Kevin24018 : "He's just so mean it makes me want to ball up my fists and stamp on the ground"
Geogeer: "Nobody is dumb enough to become my protege."

7/14/16 = The Presidency Dies

DDO: THE MOVIE = http://www.debate.org...
http://www.debate.org...

VP of DDO from Dec 14th 2014 to Jan 1st 2015
RoyLatham
Posts: 4,488
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10/16/2013 9:53:19 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
For the record, only 17% of the government was shut down. Obama did his best to make the shutdown as obnoxious as possible. Extra staff was assigned to keep people out of national parks, in many cases more than was required when the parks were open. In Yellowstone, people who has reserved at the privately-run hotel near Old Faithful were allowed to stay there, but park rangers were assigned to block the short path from the hotel to the geyser. Closing open spaces never occurred in any of the 58 previous shutdowns.
RoyLatham
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10/16/2013 10:03:31 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 10/16/2013 9:50:52 PM, imabench wrote:

No one is going to say that Obama has a good history of compromising on issues but im pretty sure that a big reason why thats the case is because the GOP have been acting pretty stubborn to say the least

So disagreeing with an intransigent President is now sedition?

President Clinton vetoed Gingrich's balanced budget four times. That's pretty stubborn on both sides. When the balanced budget was passed, Clinton got to claim it as an achievement -- and that's the way it should be. Good governing requires compromise. Obama could have come away as a leader by delaying the disastrous start of Obamacare for six months. That would have given him a chance to look like a statesman while also patching up the embarrassingly defective software. It's only his attitude of imperial rule that prevented it.
RoyLatham
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10/16/2013 10:14:15 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Failure to raise the debt ceiling means that a balanced budget is forced. Rolling over existing debt, receiving taxes, and spending received tax money goes on. The government is forced to get by with only about $2.7 trillion, rather than the roughly $3.7 trillion they'd like to spend.
imabench
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10/16/2013 10:18:23 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 10/16/2013 10:03:31 PM, RoyLatham wrote:
At 10/16/2013 9:50:52 PM, imabench wrote:

No one is going to say that Obama has a good history of compromising on issues but im pretty sure that a big reason why thats the case is because the GOP have been acting pretty stubborn to say the least

So disagreeing with an intransigent President is now sedition?

Roy come back down to Earth and actually READ what I posted mkay. Im saying that the GOP have given Obama a hell of a hard time to be able to fairly compromise on just about anything.

President Clinton vetoed Gingrich's balanced budget four times. That's pretty stubborn on both sides.

Its not nearly as stubborn as 6, or 10, or 41 which is how many times the GOP tried to repeal Obamacare....

The GOP gave Clinton a pretty hard time, but Obama would dream to have that GOP to deal with rather then the one we have now

When the balanced budget was passed, Clinton got to claim it as an achievement -- and that's the way it should be. Good governing requires compromise. Obama could have come away as a leader by delaying the disastrous start of Obamacare for six months.

The release of SIMCITY 5 was a disastrous release Roy, the release of Obamacare had a few hiccups and thats about as far as it went.....

That would have given him a chance to look like a statesman while also patching up the embarrassingly defective software. It's only his attitude of imperial rule that prevented it.
Kevin24018 : "He's just so mean it makes me want to ball up my fists and stamp on the ground"
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RoyLatham
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10/17/2013 12:25:50 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 10/16/2013 10:18:23 PM, imabench wrote:
Roy come back down to Earth and actually READ what I posted mkay. Im saying that the GOP have given Obama a hell of a hard time to be able to fairly compromise on just about anything.

My reply was (a) So what? and (b) there is always a hard time negotiating

President Clinton vetoed Gingrich's balanced budget four times. That's pretty stubborn on both sides.

Its not nearly as stubborn as 6, or 10, or 41 which is how many times the GOP tried to repeal Obamacare....

That didn't cause Obama even a trace of inconvenience. Harry Reid just threw every bill in the trash, no problem at all. The GOP was mainly putting House members on record as to who was supporting and who was opposed to Obamacare, basically every time a new Representative showed up. They believed that would be helpful in the next elections. Obma didn't negotiate a single one of the attempts.

The GOP gave Clinton a pretty hard time, but Obama would dream to have that GOP to deal with rather then the one we have now

Obama's repeated non-negotiable position was that he wouldn't negotiate until the GOP gave up any leverage they had by passing both the budget and the debt limit. the GOP made the hopeless demand to repeal Obamacare -- the Pope would renounce Jesus before that. But they then retreated to reasonable positions of delaying the mandate, applying Obamacare to Congress itself, and repealing the medical device tax that was costing jobs. Obama maintained absolute refusal to negotiate on anything.

The release of SIMCITY 5 was a disastrous release Roy, the release of Obamacare had a few hiccups and thats about as far as it went.....

Delaware recorded it's very first sign-up today. There are 38,000 total nationwide. Amazon handles 20 million customers a day. The government paid $638 million (!) to vendors for pieces of the software, but kept the systems integration job within the bureaucracy. They also were late getting specs to vendors. It is total incompetence. They'll be lucky to get it straightened out in six months. Yes, it was $638 million. The Medicare Part D roll out was thoroughly tested, applied to many more people, and had no such problems.

To be sure, it will eventually be fixed, but Sebelius should be fired for incompetence.
imabench
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10/17/2013 12:50:00 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 10/17/2013 12:25:50 AM, RoyLatham wrote:
At 10/16/2013 10:18:23 PM, imabench wrote:
Roy come back down to Earth and actually READ what I posted mkay. Im saying that the GOP have given Obama a hell of a hard time to be able to fairly compromise on just about anything.

My reply was (a) So what? and (b) there is always a hard time negotiating

Youre reply was actually "So disagreeing with an intransigent President is now sedition?", not exactly a 'so what?'

President Clinton vetoed Gingrich's balanced budget four times. That's pretty stubborn on both sides.

Its not nearly as stubborn as 6, or 10, or 41 which is how many times the GOP tried to repeal Obamacare....

That didn't cause Obama even a trace of inconvenience.

It kinda did since the GOP shutdown progress on just about any other bill specifically to try to repeal Obamacare over and over and over

and over and over and over

and over

(and over another 30 times too)

The GOP was mainly putting House members on record as to who was supporting and who was opposed to Obamacare,

You dont need 40+ votes to figure out that an overwhelming majority, if not all, republicans are in favor of repealing Obamacare.....

basically every time a new Representative showed up. They believed that would be helpful in the next elections. Obama didn't negotiate a single one of the attempts.

So the GOP are the ones acting like theyve lost their minds and you still try to pin it on Obama? Seriously Roy?

The GOP gave Clinton a pretty hard time, but Obama would dream to have that GOP to deal with rather then the one we have now

Obama's repeated non-negotiable position was that he wouldn't negotiate until the GOP gave up any leverage they had by passing both the budget and the debt limit. the GOP made the hopeless demand to repeal Obamacare -- the Pope would renounce Jesus before that. But they then retreated to reasonable positions of delaying the mandate, applying Obamacare to Congress itself, and repealing the medical device tax that was costing jobs. Obama maintained absolute refusal to negotiate on anything.

Then blame him for being too rigid on THAT rather then try to pin all of Congress's gridlock in the months and months prior to the shutdown on Obama as well.

The release of SIMCITY 5 was a disastrous release Roy, the release of Obamacare had a few hiccups and thats about as far as it went.....

Delaware recorded it's very first sign-up today. There are 38,000 total nationwide. Amazon handles 20 million customers a day. The government paid $638 million (!) to vendors for pieces of the software, but kept the systems integration job within the bureaucracy. They also were late getting specs to vendors. It is total incompetence. They'll be lucky to get it straightened out in six months. Yes, it was $638 million. The Medicare Part D roll out was thoroughly tested, applied to many more people, and had no such problems.

To be sure, it will eventually be fixed, but Sebelius should be fired for incompetence.
Kevin24018 : "He's just so mean it makes me want to ball up my fists and stamp on the ground"
Geogeer: "Nobody is dumb enough to become my protege."

7/14/16 = The Presidency Dies

DDO: THE MOVIE = http://www.debate.org...
http://www.debate.org...

VP of DDO from Dec 14th 2014 to Jan 1st 2015
RoyLatham
Posts: 4,488
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10/17/2013 11:54:31 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 10/17/2013 12:50:00 AM, imabench wrote:
Youre reply was actually "So disagreeing with an intransigent President is now sedition?", not exactly a 'so what?'

That clearly implies, "If not, then what?"

That didn't cause Obama even a trace of inconvenience.

It kinda did since the GOP shutdown progress on just about any other bill specifically to try to repeal Obamacare over and over and over

That poses the false dichotomy that either the House could to vote down Obamacare or they could approve the President's agenda of neo-socialist legislation. Nah. For example, the House debated and passed a budget every year since Obama was elected, and the Democrat-controlled Senate did not pass a budget until this year. President Obama made a 2008 campaign promise to introduce immigration reform legislation in his first year in office, but he didn't even propose the legislation when Democrats held both houses of Congress.

You dont need 40+ votes to figure out that an overwhelming majority, if not all, republicans are in favor of repealing Obamacare.....

basically every time a new Representative showed up. They believed that would be helpful in the next elections. Obama didn't negotiate a single one of the attempts.

So the GOP are the ones acting like theyve lost their minds and you still try to pin it on Obama? Seriously Roy?

I don't understand you're point. It's as much giving Obama credit as blame. If Obamacare is wonderful, then every new member of Congress should want to show that they endorse it. That way they can show their record to voters and get the benefit of being on the team that has brought such a good thing to pass. Equally so if it's the opposite. Having the votes didn't take any time, it just put new members of Congress on record.

Obama's repeated non-negotiable position was that he wouldn't negotiate until the GOP gave up any leverage they had by passing both the budget and the debt limit. the GOP made the hopeless demand to repeal Obamacare -- the Pope would renounce Jesus before that. But they then retreated to reasonable positions of delaying the mandate, applying Obamacare to Congress itself, and repealing the medical device tax that was costing jobs. Obama maintained absolute refusal to negotiate on anything.

Then blame him for being too rigid on THAT rather then try to pin all of Congress's gridlock in the months and months prior to the shutdown on Obama as well.

Yes, I blame Obama. That's because he's supposed to lead the country. Reagan, Clinton, and Bush all took the leadership role in negotiations with stiff opposition. Obama has consistently taken the no-negation stance. That's ridiculous when he could have compromised by doing something that would have actually improved his legislation. One of those straw votes in the Senate showed 79 Senators in favor of repealing the medical device tax, which is moving jobs overseas. Obama's mindset is one of imperial rule.

Again, you equate passing more laws with progress. Gridlock is generally better, and repealing laws better still. Okay, granted we ought to have a budget and national defense, but Obama isn't much interested in those particular things.