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Misconceptions about Stand your Ground

Wnope
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10/29/2013 6:30:01 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Ted Cruz is starting his rant on Stand your Ground, and I'd like to address some misinformation of his:

For one, the idea that it benefits blacks as much as, if not more than, whites. The most commonly cited evidence is below:

"According to the Daily Caller, black individuals "benefit" from Florida's Stand Your Ground law at a "disproportionate rate" because those who used the defense were successful 55 percent of the time, while white individuals were only successful in 53 percent of cases (including pending cases).

But the data the Daily Caller cited, from The Tampa Bay Times, reveals that contrary to the claim that blacks largely "benefit" or have been "helped" by Florida's Stand Your Ground law, those who killed black people and cited Stand Your Ground got off at a higher rate than those who killed white people. "

Here's the truth-

"34% of cases involving a white shooter killing a black person were deemed as a justifiable homicide. Meanwhile, in similar situations, when the shooter was black and the victim was white, the homicide was ruled justifiable only 3.3% of the time." - FBI data
http://usatoday30.usatoday.com...

"People who killed a black person walked free 73 percent of the time, while those who killed a white person went free 59 percent of the time."

http://tampabay.com...

"Whites who kill blacks in Stand Your Ground states are far more likely to be found justified in their killings. In non-Stand Your Ground states, whites are 250 percent more likely to be found justified in killing a black person than a white person who kills another white person; in Stand Your Ground states, that number jumps to 354 percent."
http://blog.metrotrends.org...
Khaos_Mage
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10/29/2013 6:48:08 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
I'd be interested in the stat of blacks killing blacks and whites killing white for true comparison.
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thett3
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10/29/2013 6:56:40 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 10/29/2013 6:30:01 PM, Wnope wrote:
Ted Cruz is starting his rant on Stand your Ground, and I'd like to address some misinformation of his:

For one, the idea that it benefits blacks as much as, if not more than, whites. The most commonly cited evidence is below:

"According to the Daily Caller, black individuals "benefit" from Florida's Stand Your Ground law at a "disproportionate rate" because those who used the defense were successful 55 percent of the time, while white individuals were only successful in 53 percent of cases (including pending cases).

But the data the Daily Caller cited, from The Tampa Bay Times, reveals that contrary to the claim that blacks largely "benefit" or have been "helped" by Florida's Stand Your Ground law, those who killed black people and cited Stand Your Ground got off at a higher rate than those who killed white people. "

Here's the truth-

"34% of cases involving a white shooter killing a black person were deemed as a justifiable homicide. Meanwhile, in similar situations, when the shooter was black and the victim was white, the homicide was ruled justifiable only 3.3% of the time." - FBI data

I read the source, and the link to the FBI data is broken. I'd be interested to see the actual numbers considering that the overall number of justifiable homicides per year is very low, numbering only 260 in 2011 http://www.fbi.gov...

Given that the significantly higher rate of crime (This study says Blacks are 39 times more likely to commit a violent crime against Whites than vice versa http://www.colorofcrime.com... that seems far too high but I have to study so I don't have time to look in depth) I think I would chalk up these numbers to statistical anomalies because of a really, really small sample size.

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com...

"People who killed a black person walked free 73 percent of the time, while those who killed a white person went free 59 percent of the time."

http://tampabay.com...

The claim that a 14% difference in arrests given the vastly higher rate of violent crime among black people proves the point either way doesn't stack up IMO.


"Whites who kill blacks in Stand Your Ground states are far more likely to be found justified in their killings. In non-Stand Your Ground states, whites are 250 percent more likely to be found justified in killing a black person than a white person who kills another white person; in Stand Your Ground states, that number jumps to 354 percent."
http://blog.metrotrends.org...

I think you may be putting the cart before the horse first. If blacks are more likely to assault/murder whites than vice versa (which seems to be the case) it makes sense that there would be more justifiable homicides among whites than blacks. I think even if you controlled for race, the real variable here would probably be poverty.
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: At 11/12/2016 11:49:40 PM, Raisor wrote:
: thett was right
thett3
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10/29/2013 7:03:34 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 10/29/2013 6:56:40 PM, thett3 wrote:
At 10/29/2013 6:30:01 PM, Wnope wrote:
Ted Cruz is starting his rant on Stand your Ground, and I'd like to address some misinformation of his:

For one, the idea that it benefits blacks as much as, if not more than, whites. The most commonly cited evidence is below:

"According to the Daily Caller, black individuals "benefit" from Florida's Stand Your Ground law at a "disproportionate rate" because those who used the defense were successful 55 percent of the time, while white individuals were only successful in 53 percent of cases (including pending cases).

But the data the Daily Caller cited, from The Tampa Bay Times, reveals that contrary to the claim that blacks largely "benefit" or have been "helped" by Florida's Stand Your Ground law, those who killed black people and cited Stand Your Ground got off at a higher rate than those who killed white people. "

Here's the truth-

"34% of cases involving a white shooter killing a black person were deemed as a justifiable homicide. Meanwhile, in similar situations, when the shooter was black and the victim was white, the homicide was ruled justifiable only 3.3% of the time." - FBI data

I read the source, and the link to the FBI data is broken. I'd be interested to see the actual numbers considering that the overall number of justifiable homicides per year is very low, numbering only 260 in 2011 http://www.fbi.gov...

Given that the significantly higher rate of crime (This study says Blacks are 39 times more likely to commit a violent crime against Whites than vice versa http://www.colorofcrime.com... that seems far too high but I have to study so I don't have time to look in depth) I think I would chalk up these numbers to statistical anomalies because of a really, really small sample size.

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com...

"People who killed a black person walked free 73 percent of the time, while those who killed a white person went free 59 percent of the time."

http://tampabay.com...

The claim that a 14% difference in arrests given the vastly higher rate of violent crime among black people proves the point either way doesn't stack up IMO.

Oh wait, I misread what you were saying. Either way, I don't think a 14% difference with such a small sample size is significant



"Whites who kill blacks in Stand Your Ground states are far more likely to be found justified in their killings. In non-Stand Your Ground states, whites are 250 percent more likely to be found justified in killing a black person than a white person who kills another white person; in Stand Your Ground states, that number jumps to 354 percent."
http://blog.metrotrends.org...

I think you may be putting the cart before the horse first. If blacks are more likely to assault/murder whites than vice versa (which seems to be the case) it makes sense that there would be more justifiable homicides among whites than blacks. I think even if you controlled for race, the real variable here would probably be poverty.
DDO Vice President

#StandwithBossy

#UnbanTheMadman

#BetOnThett

"Don't quote me, ever." -Max

"My name is max. I'm not a big fan of slacks"- Max rapping

"Walmart should have the opportunity to bribe a politician to it's agenda" -Max

"Thett, you're really good at convincing people you're a decent person"-tulle

"You fit the character of Regina George quite nicely"- Sam

: At 11/12/2016 11:49:40 PM, Raisor wrote:
: thett was right
GeoLaureate8
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10/29/2013 7:21:22 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
A disparity in statistics does not prove systematic racism.

The stand your ground law cannot be deemed inherently racist unless you are suggesting minorities are always the aggressor in which case that makes you the racist for such an irresponsible assumption.

The stand your ground law says the victim or potential victim has the lawful right to use lethal force if in reasonable fear of their life or great bodily injury.

It does not say, "if you're white you can defend yourself, if you're black you cannot defend yourself."

Ted Cruz is right as usual.
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ironmaiden
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10/29/2013 7:24:28 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
What you're saying might be true, but don't forget that whites are still the majority in America. They outnumber blacks by a lot. That's probably why more white people commit murders than blacks; they do a lot of things more than blacks. If you want to prove your point, show me blacks killing blacks and whites killing whites so that we have something to compare your numbers to.
"I know what you're thinking. 'Did he fire six shots or only five?' Well, to tell you the truth, in all this excitement I kinda lost track myself. But being that his is a .44 Magnum, the most powerful handgun in the world and will blow your head clean off, you've got to ask yourself a question. 'Do I feel lucky?' Well, do ya, punk?"
Wnope
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10/29/2013 7:25:12 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 10/29/2013 6:56:40 PM, thett3 wrote:
At 10/29/2013 6:30:01 PM, Wnope wrote:
Ted Cruz is starting his rant on Stand your Ground, and I'd like to address some misinformation of his:

For one, the idea that it benefits blacks as much as, if not more than, whites. The most commonly cited evidence is below:

"According to the Daily Caller, black individuals "benefit" from Florida's Stand Your Ground law at a "disproportionate rate" because those who used the defense were successful 55 percent of the time, while white individuals were only successful in 53 percent of cases (including pending cases).

But the data the Daily Caller cited, from The Tampa Bay Times, reveals that contrary to the claim that blacks largely "benefit" or have been "helped" by Florida's Stand Your Ground law, those who killed black people and cited Stand Your Ground got off at a higher rate than those who killed white people. "

Here's the truth-

"34% of cases involving a white shooter killing a black person were deemed as a justifiable homicide. Meanwhile, in similar situations, when the shooter was black and the victim was white, the homicide was ruled justifiable only 3.3% of the time." - FBI data

I read the source, and the link to the FBI data is broken. I'd be interested to see the actual numbers considering that the overall number of justifiable homicides per year is very low, numbering only 260 in 2011 http://www.fbi.gov...

Given that the significantly higher rate of crime (This study says Blacks are 39 times more likely to commit a violent crime against Whites than vice versa http://www.colorofcrime.com... that seems far too high but I have to study so I don't have time to look in depth) I think I would chalk up these numbers to statistical anomalies because of a really, really small sample size.

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com...

"People who killed a black person walked free 73 percent of the time, while those who killed a white person went free 59 percent of the time."

http://tampabay.com...

The claim that a 14% difference in arrests given the vastly higher rate of violent crime among black people proves the point either way doesn't stack up IMO.


"Whites who kill blacks in Stand Your Ground states are far more likely to be found justified in their killings. In non-Stand Your Ground states, whites are 250 percent more likely to be found justified in killing a black person than a white person who kills another white person; in Stand Your Ground states, that number jumps to 354 percent."
http://blog.metrotrends.org...

I think you may be putting the cart before the horse first. If blacks are more likely to assault/murder whites than vice versa (which seems to be the case) it makes sense that there would be more justifiable homicides among whites than blacks. I think even if you controlled for race, the real variable here would probably be poverty.

The problem with the 39x statistic is that it doesn't control socioeconomic status. On average, the poverty rate (notice this doesn't even factor in lower or middle class) among blacks is 2x to 3x in every state.

Before you mention income mobility, the rates of positive change are much lower for blacks (in large part because of the correlation with poverty/low income) than for whites.

http://www.pewstates.org...

"The claim that a 14% difference in arrests given the vastly higher rate of violent crime among black people proves the point either way doesn't stack up IMO."

Thing is, Ted Cruz's main argument is that a different of 53% and 56% is enough to justify saying blacks benefit more than whites.

This data came from HIS citation.

" I think you may be putting the cart before the horse first. If blacks are more likely to assault/murder whites than vice versa (which seems to be the case) it makes sense that there would be more justifiable homicides among whites than blacks. I think even if you controlled for race, the real variable here would probably be poverty."

Poverty surely plays a part. Thing is, this study DID factor in socioeconomics.

http://www.urban.org...
Wnope
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10/29/2013 7:42:09 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 10/29/2013 7:21:22 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
A disparity in statistics does not prove systematic racism.

The stand your ground law cannot be deemed inherently racist unless you are suggesting minorities are always the aggressor in which case that makes you the racist for such an irresponsible assumption.

The stand your ground law says the victim or potential victim has the lawful right to use lethal force if in reasonable fear of their life or great bodily injury.

It does not say, "if you're white you can defend yourself, if you're black you cannot defend yourself."

Ted Cruz is right as usual.

Um...Geo, you realize that you're the one insinuating that minority aggression against whites accounts for the different data from the OP, right?

If the law is biased against minorities, then by definition there's over-representation compared to actual rates of crime and sentencing.

"Cruz also argued that the African-American community had actually benefited from stand your ground laws, citing statistics that black individuals successfully invoked the laws in 55 percent of cases, as opposed to a 53 percent rate for white individuals."

I want you to go to the OP. Read what this thread is about.

It's about misconceptions in data. Cruz presented the above data which was a bold-faced lie.

The actual statistics show a significant disparity which cannot be account.

The studies I've cited not only factor in poverty but also geographical area (go figure the south has higher dispartiy) cannot explain Stand Your Ground justifiable homicides for white on black.

State differences concerning stand your ground laws have almost no effect on increasing black on black homicide (from 1.20% murders justified to 1.40).

White on white increased from 1.68 to 3.51% in stand your ground states.

Black on white justified homicide went from 1.20 to 1.40%

White on black when from 9.51% to 15.85%.

On average, stand your ground states increase percentage of homicides ruled justified from 2.15% to 3.67%

http://www.urban.org... (pg.8)
http://www.icpsr.umich.edu...
thett3
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10/29/2013 7:42:19 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 10/29/2013 7:25:12 PM, Wnope wrote:
At 10/29/2013 6:56:40 PM, thett3 wrote:
At 10/29/2013 6:30:01 PM, Wnope wrote:
Ted Cruz is starting his rant on Stand your Ground, and I'd like to address some misinformation of his:

For one, the idea that it benefits blacks as much as, if not more than, whites. The most commonly cited evidence is below:

"According to the Daily Caller, black individuals "benefit" from Florida's Stand Your Ground law at a "disproportionate rate" because those who used the defense were successful 55 percent of the time, while white individuals were only successful in 53 percent of cases (including pending cases).

But the data the Daily Caller cited, from The Tampa Bay Times, reveals that contrary to the claim that blacks largely "benefit" or have been "helped" by Florida's Stand Your Ground law, those who killed black people and cited Stand Your Ground got off at a higher rate than those who killed white people. "

Here's the truth-

"34% of cases involving a white shooter killing a black person were deemed as a justifiable homicide. Meanwhile, in similar situations, when the shooter was black and the victim was white, the homicide was ruled justifiable only 3.3% of the time." - FBI data

I read the source, and the link to the FBI data is broken. I'd be interested to see the actual numbers considering that the overall number of justifiable homicides per year is very low, numbering only 260 in 2011 http://www.fbi.gov...

Given that the significantly higher rate of crime (This study says Blacks are 39 times more likely to commit a violent crime against Whites than vice versa http://www.colorofcrime.com... that seems far too high but I have to study so I don't have time to look in depth) I think I would chalk up these numbers to statistical anomalies because of a really, really small sample size.

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com...

"People who killed a black person walked free 73 percent of the time, while those who killed a white person went free 59 percent of the time."

http://tampabay.com...

The claim that a 14% difference in arrests given the vastly higher rate of violent crime among black people proves the point either way doesn't stack up IMO.


"Whites who kill blacks in Stand Your Ground states are far more likely to be found justified in their killings. In non-Stand Your Ground states, whites are 250 percent more likely to be found justified in killing a black person than a white person who kills another white person; in Stand Your Ground states, that number jumps to 354 percent."
http://blog.metrotrends.org...

I think you may be putting the cart before the horse first. If blacks are more likely to assault/murder whites than vice versa (which seems to be the case) it makes sense that there would be more justifiable homicides among whites than blacks. I think even if you controlled for race, the real variable here would probably be poverty.

The problem with the 39x statistic is that it doesn't control socioeconomic status. On average, the poverty rate (notice this doesn't even factor in lower or middle class) among blacks is 2x to 3x in every state.

That's definitely true. I wonder what the poverty numbers do to the statistics.


Before you mention income mobility, the rates of positive change are much lower for blacks (in large part because of the correlation with poverty/low income) than for whites.

http://www.pewstates.org...

"The claim that a 14% difference in arrests given the vastly higher rate of violent crime among black people proves the point either way doesn't stack up IMO."

Thing is, Ted Cruz's main argument is that a different of 53% and 56% is enough to justify saying blacks benefit more than whites.

Oh. Yeah, that's a bad argument.


This data came from HIS citation.

" I think you may be putting the cart before the horse first. If blacks are more likely to assault/murder whites than vice versa (which seems to be the case) it makes sense that there would be more justifiable homicides among whites than blacks. I think even if you controlled for race, the real variable here would probably be poverty."

Poverty surely plays a part. Thing is, this study DID factor in socioeconomics.

http://www.urban.org...

I'll admit that since I'm busy I just skimmed over the article, but I didn't see where/how it controlled for socioeconomics. The only mention of the word poverty comes early where they state:

"Distinguishing racial animus within racial disparities is exceedingly difficult
with existing datasets that do not include such key measures as setting and context. However, it is possible to compare the rates of racial disparity across points of criminal justice system contact."

The abnormally large (11.4%) of white-on black homicides ruled justifiable is consistent with the significantly higher probability that a black will assault a white than vice versa
DDO Vice President

#StandwithBossy

#UnbanTheMadman

#BetOnThett

"Don't quote me, ever." -Max

"My name is max. I'm not a big fan of slacks"- Max rapping

"Walmart should have the opportunity to bribe a politician to it's agenda" -Max

"Thett, you're really good at convincing people you're a decent person"-tulle

"You fit the character of Regina George quite nicely"- Sam

: At 11/12/2016 11:49:40 PM, Raisor wrote:
: thett was right
thett3
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10/29/2013 7:45:59 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 10/29/2013 7:42:19 PM, thett3 wrote:
At 10/29/2013 7:25:12 PM, Wnope wrote:
At 10/29/2013 6:56:40 PM, thett3 wrote:
At 10/29/2013 6:30:01 PM, Wnope wrote:
Ted Cruz is starting his rant on Stand your Ground, and I'd like to address some misinformation of his:

For one, the idea that it benefits blacks as much as, if not more than, whites. The most commonly cited evidence is below:

"According to the Daily Caller, black individuals "benefit" from Florida's Stand Your Ground law at a "disproportionate rate" because those who used the defense were successful 55 percent of the time, while white individuals were only successful in 53 percent of cases (including pending cases).

But the data the Daily Caller cited, from The Tampa Bay Times, reveals that contrary to the claim that blacks largely "benefit" or have been "helped" by Florida's Stand Your Ground law, those who killed black people and cited Stand Your Ground got off at a higher rate than those who killed white people. "

Here's the truth-

"34% of cases involving a white shooter killing a black person were deemed as a justifiable homicide. Meanwhile, in similar situations, when the shooter was black and the victim was white, the homicide was ruled justifiable only 3.3% of the time." - FBI data

I read the source, and the link to the FBI data is broken. I'd be interested to see the actual numbers considering that the overall number of justifiable homicides per year is very low, numbering only 260 in 2011 http://www.fbi.gov...

Given that the significantly higher rate of crime (This study says Blacks are 39 times more likely to commit a violent crime against Whites than vice versa http://www.colorofcrime.com... that seems far too high but I have to study so I don't have time to look in depth) I think I would chalk up these numbers to statistical anomalies because of a really, really small sample size.

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com...

"People who killed a black person walked free 73 percent of the time, while those who killed a white person went free 59 percent of the time."

http://tampabay.com...

The claim that a 14% difference in arrests given the vastly higher rate of violent crime among black people proves the point either way doesn't stack up IMO.


"Whites who kill blacks in Stand Your Ground states are far more likely to be found justified in their killings. In non-Stand Your Ground states, whites are 250 percent more likely to be found justified in killing a black person than a white person who kills another white person; in Stand Your Ground states, that number jumps to 354 percent."
http://blog.metrotrends.org...

I think you may be putting the cart before the horse first. If blacks are more likely to assault/murder whites than vice versa (which seems to be the case) it makes sense that there would be more justifiable homicides among whites than blacks. I think even if you controlled for race, the real variable here would probably be poverty.

The problem with the 39x statistic is that it doesn't control socioeconomic status. On average, the poverty rate (notice this doesn't even factor in lower or middle class) among blacks is 2x to 3x in every state.

That's definitely true. I wonder what the poverty numbers do to the statistics.


Before you mention income mobility, the rates of positive change are much lower for blacks (in large part because of the correlation with poverty/low income) than for whites.

http://www.pewstates.org...

"The claim that a 14% difference in arrests given the vastly higher rate of violent crime among black people proves the point either way doesn't stack up IMO."

Thing is, Ted Cruz's main argument is that a different of 53% and 56% is enough to justify saying blacks benefit more than whites.

Oh. Yeah, that's a bad argument.


This data came from HIS citation.

" I think you may be putting the cart before the horse first. If blacks are more likely to assault/murder whites than vice versa (which seems to be the case) it makes sense that there would be more justifiable homicides among whites than blacks. I think even if you controlled for race, the real variable here would probably be poverty."

Poverty surely plays a part. Thing is, this study DID factor in socioeconomics.

http://www.urban.org...

I'll admit that since I'm busy I just skimmed over the article, but I didn't see where/how it controlled for socioeconomics. The only mention of the word poverty comes early where they state:

"Distinguishing racial animus within racial disparities is exceedingly difficult
with existing datasets that do not include such key measures as setting and context. However, it is possible to compare the rates of racial disparity across points of criminal justice system contact."

The abnormally large (11.4%) of white-on black homicides ruled justifiable is consistent with the significantly higher probability that a black will assault a white than vice versa

The study even concludes:

"As noted earlier, it is possible that this finding of racial disparity is not associated with any conscious or unconscious racial animus in the justice system. If the facts of white-on-black homicides differ from the facts associated with black-on-white homicides such that one routinely occurs as part of self-defense and the other as part of a street crime, then there is no animus. The data here cannot completely address this problem because the setting of the incident cannot be observed. Thus, the analysis is at risk due to omitted variable bias, where the lack of a data element leads to a spurious conclusion. "
DDO Vice President

#StandwithBossy

#UnbanTheMadman

#BetOnThett

"Don't quote me, ever." -Max

"My name is max. I'm not a big fan of slacks"- Max rapping

"Walmart should have the opportunity to bribe a politician to it's agenda" -Max

"Thett, you're really good at convincing people you're a decent person"-tulle

"You fit the character of Regina George quite nicely"- Sam

: At 11/12/2016 11:49:40 PM, Raisor wrote:
: thett was right
Citrakayah
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10/29/2013 10:19:27 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 10/29/2013 6:56:40 PM, thett3 wrote:
Given that the significantly higher rate of crime (This study says Blacks are 39 times more likely to commit a violent crime against Whites than vice versa http://www.colorofcrime.com... that seems far too high but I have to study so I don't have time to look in depth) I think I would chalk up these numbers to statistical anomalies because of a really, really small sample size.

I'd just like to point out that those numbers come from a white supremacist (or as they prefer to call it, white separatist) group (http://en.wikipedia.org...). I would be careful of the numbers. And there are apparently some statistical issues (http://www.splcenter.org...) involved. I'll look over it more when it isn't ten at night.

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com...

"People who killed a black person walked free 73 percent of the time, while those who killed a white person went free 59 percent of the time."

http://tampabay.com...

The claim that a 14% difference in arrests given the vastly higher rate of violent crime among black people proves the point either way doesn't stack up IMO.


"Whites who kill blacks in Stand Your Ground states are far more likely to be found justified in their killings. In non-Stand Your Ground states, whites are 250 percent more likely to be found justified in killing a black person than a white person who kills another white person; in Stand Your Ground states, that number jumps to 354 percent."
http://blog.metrotrends.org...

I think you may be putting the cart before the horse first. If blacks are more likely to assault/murder whites than vice versa (which seems to be the case) it makes sense that there would be more justifiable homicides among whites than blacks. I think even if you controlled for race, the real variable here would probably be poverty.
thett3
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10/29/2013 10:40:14 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 10/29/2013 10:19:27 PM, Citrakayah wrote:
At 10/29/2013 6:56:40 PM, thett3 wrote:
Given that the significantly higher rate of crime (This study says Blacks are 39 times more likely to commit a violent crime against Whites than vice versa http://www.colorofcrime.com... that seems far too high but I have to study so I don't have time to look in depth) I think I would chalk up these numbers to statistical anomalies because of a really, really small sample size.

I'd just like to point out that those numbers come from a white supremacist (or as they prefer to call it, white separatist) group (http://en.wikipedia.org...). I would be careful of the numbers. And there are apparently some statistical issues (http://www.splcenter.org...) involved. I'll look over it more when it isn't ten at night.

The argument the SPL Center made was what I view to be the correct one, namely that:
"Crime is intimately related to poverty. In fact, when multivariate statistical methods such as regression analysis are used, study after study has shown that race has little, if any, predictive power."

But like Wnope pointed out, Blacks are far more likely to be in poverty than whites. This is still consistent with the argument that it makes sense that there would be more white on black justifiable homicides because there's more black on white crime than vice versa.

My argument doesn't explain the lower rates for justifiable homicides between intra-racial homicides though. Maybe something to do with murder against people the person knows (who are more likely to be in their own race)?

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com...

"People who killed a black person walked free 73 percent of the time, while those who killed a white person went free 59 percent of the time."

http://tampabay.com...

The claim that a 14% difference in arrests given the vastly higher rate of violent crime among black people proves the point either way doesn't stack up IMO.


"Whites who kill blacks in Stand Your Ground states are far more likely to be found justified in their killings. In non-Stand Your Ground states, whites are 250 percent more likely to be found justified in killing a black person than a white person who kills another white person; in Stand Your Ground states, that number jumps to 354 percent."
http://blog.metrotrends.org...

I think you may be putting the cart before the horse first. If blacks are more likely to assault/murder whites than vice versa (which seems to be the case) it makes sense that there would be more justifiable homicides among whites than blacks. I think even if you controlled for race, the real variable here would probably be poverty.
DDO Vice President

#StandwithBossy

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#BetOnThett

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"Thett, you're really good at convincing people you're a decent person"-tulle

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: At 11/12/2016 11:49:40 PM, Raisor wrote:
: thett was right
Juris_Naturalis
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10/31/2013 11:31:24 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 10/29/2013 7:24:28 PM, ironmaiden wrote:
What you're saying might be true, but don't forget that whites are still the majority in America. They outnumber blacks by a lot. That's probably why more white people commit murders than blacks; they do a lot of things more than blacks. If you want to prove your point, show me blacks killing blacks and whites killing whites so that we have something to compare your numbers to.

Are you crazy? The FBI has shown time after time that the majority of homicide perpetrators are black.
ironmaiden
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10/31/2013 6:01:02 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 10/31/2013 11:31:24 AM, Juris_Naturalis wrote:
At 10/29/2013 7:24:28 PM, ironmaiden wrote:
What you're saying might be true, but don't forget that whites are still the majority in America. They outnumber blacks by a lot. That's probably why more white people commit murders than blacks; they do a lot of things more than blacks. If you want to prove your point, show me blacks killing blacks and whites killing whites so that we have something to compare your numbers to.

Are you crazy? The FBI has shown time after time that the majority of homicide perpetrators are black.

I honestly don't know the stats. Either way would make sense; if whites were the majority of homicides because they're the majority in the country, or if blacks were the majority of homicides because of multiple reasons.
"I know what you're thinking. 'Did he fire six shots or only five?' Well, to tell you the truth, in all this excitement I kinda lost track myself. But being that his is a .44 Magnum, the most powerful handgun in the world and will blow your head clean off, you've got to ask yourself a question. 'Do I feel lucky?' Well, do ya, punk?"
Juris_Naturalis
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10/31/2013 7:32:30 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 10/31/2013 6:01:02 PM, ironmaiden wrote:
At 10/31/2013 11:31:24 AM, Juris_Naturalis wrote:
At 10/29/2013 7:24:28 PM, ironmaiden wrote:
What you're saying might be true, but don't forget that whites are still the majority in America. They outnumber blacks by a lot. That's probably why more white people commit murders than blacks; they do a lot of things more than blacks. If you want to prove your point, show me blacks killing blacks and whites killing whites so that we have something to compare your numbers to.

Are you crazy? The FBI has shown time after time that the majority of homicide perpetrators are black.

I honestly don't know the stats. Either way would make sense; if whites were the majority of homicides because they're the majority in the country, or if blacks were the majority of homicides because of multiple reasons.

No, Blacks commit more homicides for 2 reasons. 1.) Poverty and 2.) Gangs.
ironmaiden
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10/31/2013 7:56:55 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 10/31/2013 7:32:30 PM, Juris_Naturalis wrote:
At 10/31/2013 6:01:02 PM, ironmaiden wrote:
At 10/31/2013 11:31:24 AM, Juris_Naturalis wrote:
At 10/29/2013 7:24:28 PM, ironmaiden wrote:
What you're saying might be true, but don't forget that whites are still the majority in America. They outnumber blacks by a lot. That's probably why more white people commit murders than blacks; they do a lot of things more than blacks. If you want to prove your point, show me blacks killing blacks and whites killing whites so that we have something to compare your numbers to.

Are you crazy? The FBI has shown time after time that the majority of homicide perpetrators are black.

I honestly don't know the stats. Either way would make sense; if whites were the majority of homicides because they're the majority in the country, or if blacks were the majority of homicides because of multiple reasons.

No, Blacks commit more homicides for 2 reasons. 1.) Poverty and 2.) Gangs.

...I'm not disagreeing with you, if that's what you think.
"I know what you're thinking. 'Did he fire six shots or only five?' Well, to tell you the truth, in all this excitement I kinda lost track myself. But being that his is a .44 Magnum, the most powerful handgun in the world and will blow your head clean off, you've got to ask yourself a question. 'Do I feel lucky?' Well, do ya, punk?"
Juris_Naturalis
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10/31/2013 8:06:06 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 10/31/2013 7:56:55 PM, ironmaiden wrote:
At 10/31/2013 7:32:30 PM, Juris_Naturalis wrote:
At 10/31/2013 6:01:02 PM, ironmaiden wrote:
At 10/31/2013 11:31:24 AM, Juris_Naturalis wrote:
At 10/29/2013 7:24:28 PM, ironmaiden wrote:
What you're saying might be true, but don't forget that whites are still the majority in America. They outnumber blacks by a lot. That's probably why more white people commit murders than blacks; they do a lot of things more than blacks. If you want to prove your point, show me blacks killing blacks and whites killing whites so that we have something to compare your numbers to.

Are you crazy? The FBI has shown time after time that the majority of homicide perpetrators are black.

I honestly don't know the stats. Either way would make sense; if whites were the majority of homicides because they're the majority in the country, or if blacks were the majority of homicides because of multiple reasons.

No, Blacks commit more homicides for 2 reasons. 1.) Poverty and 2.) Gangs.

...I'm not disagreeing with you, if that's what you think.

I'm not sure those are the exact reasons, but they still commit most homicides. That's just my guess as to why.
ironmaiden
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11/1/2013 6:00:33 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 10/31/2013 8:06:06 PM, Juris_Naturalis wrote:
At 10/31/2013 7:56:55 PM, ironmaiden wrote:
At 10/31/2013 7:32:30 PM, Juris_Naturalis wrote:
At 10/31/2013 6:01:02 PM, ironmaiden wrote:
At 10/31/2013 11:31:24 AM, Juris_Naturalis wrote:
At 10/29/2013 7:24:28 PM, ironmaiden wrote:
What you're saying might be true, but don't forget that whites are still the majority in America. They outnumber blacks by a lot. That's probably why more white people commit murders than blacks; they do a lot of things more than blacks. If you want to prove your point, show me blacks killing blacks and whites killing whites so that we have something to compare your numbers to.

Are you crazy? The FBI has shown time after time that the majority of homicide perpetrators are black.

I honestly don't know the stats. Either way would make sense; if whites were the majority of homicides because they're the majority in the country, or if blacks were the majority of homicides because of multiple reasons.

No, Blacks commit more homicides for 2 reasons. 1.) Poverty and 2.) Gangs.

...I'm not disagreeing with you, if that's what you think.

I'm not sure those are the exact reasons, but they still commit most homicides. That's just my guess as to why.

I don't want to sound racist, but I do think those reasons are valid. You see white people in gangs, but honestly not as many as blacks. I was just saying whichever of the two races committed more homicides, I would probably believe it for the reasons you and I have listed.
"I know what you're thinking. 'Did he fire six shots or only five?' Well, to tell you the truth, in all this excitement I kinda lost track myself. But being that his is a .44 Magnum, the most powerful handgun in the world and will blow your head clean off, you've got to ask yourself a question. 'Do I feel lucky?' Well, do ya, punk?"
Juris_Naturalis
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11/1/2013 7:40:52 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/1/2013 6:00:33 PM, ironmaiden wrote:
At 10/31/2013 8:06:06 PM, Juris_Naturalis wrote:
At 10/31/2013 7:56:55 PM, ironmaiden wrote:
At 10/31/2013 7:32:30 PM, Juris_Naturalis wrote:
At 10/31/2013 6:01:02 PM, ironmaiden wrote:
At 10/31/2013 11:31:24 AM, Juris_Naturalis wrote:
At 10/29/2013 7:24:28 PM, ironmaiden wrote:
What you're saying might be true, but don't forget that whites are still the majority in America. They outnumber blacks by a lot. That's probably why more white people commit murders than blacks; they do a lot of things more than blacks. If you want to prove your point, show me blacks killing blacks and whites killing whites so that we have something to compare your numbers to.

Are you crazy? The FBI has shown time after time that the majority of homicide perpetrators are black.

I honestly don't know the stats. Either way would make sense; if whites were the majority of homicides because they're the majority in the country, or if blacks were the majority of homicides because of multiple reasons.

No, Blacks commit more homicides for 2 reasons. 1.) Poverty and 2.) Gangs.

...I'm not disagreeing with you, if that's what you think.

I'm not sure those are the exact reasons, but they still commit most homicides. That's just my guess as to why.

I don't want to sound racist, but I do think those reasons are valid. You see white people in gangs, but honestly not as many as blacks. I was just saying whichever of the two races committed more homicides, I would probably believe it for the reasons you and I have listed.

Honestly, it's not racist if it's true.
ironmaiden
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11/1/2013 7:47:23 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/1/2013 7:40:52 PM, Juris_Naturalis wrote:
Honestly, it's not racist if it's true.

Agreed.
"I know what you're thinking. 'Did he fire six shots or only five?' Well, to tell you the truth, in all this excitement I kinda lost track myself. But being that his is a .44 Magnum, the most powerful handgun in the world and will blow your head clean off, you've got to ask yourself a question. 'Do I feel lucky?' Well, do ya, punk?"
Citrakayah
Posts: 1,500
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11/1/2013 8:54:46 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/1/2013 6:00:33 PM, ironmaiden wrote:
At 10/31/2013 8:06:06 PM, Juris_Naturalis wrote:
At 10/31/2013 7:56:55 PM, ironmaiden wrote:
At 10/31/2013 7:32:30 PM, Juris_Naturalis wrote:
At 10/31/2013 6:01:02 PM, ironmaiden wrote:
At 10/31/2013 11:31:24 AM, Juris_Naturalis wrote:
At 10/29/2013 7:24:28 PM, ironmaiden wrote:
What you're saying might be true, but don't forget that whites are still the majority in America. They outnumber blacks by a lot. That's probably why more white people commit murders than blacks; they do a lot of things more than blacks. If you want to prove your point, show me blacks killing blacks and whites killing whites so that we have something to compare your numbers to.

Are you crazy? The FBI has shown time after time that the majority of homicide perpetrators are black.

I honestly don't know the stats. Either way would make sense; if whites were the majority of homicides because they're the majority in the country, or if blacks were the majority of homicides because of multiple reasons.

No, Blacks commit more homicides for 2 reasons. 1.) Poverty and 2.) Gangs.

...I'm not disagreeing with you, if that's what you think.

I'm not sure those are the exact reasons, but they still commit most homicides. That's just my guess as to why.

I don't want to sound racist, but I do think those reasons are valid. You see white people in gangs, but honestly not as many as blacks. I was just saying whichever of the two races committed more homicides, I would probably believe it for the reasons you and I have listed.

Well, one also has to take into account why you might see more black people in gangs. Those reasons might include lack of education, poverty, and other things that aren't due to some magical trait of blackness.
Juris_Naturalis
Posts: 273
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11/1/2013 9:12:12 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/1/2013 8:54:46 PM, Citrakayah wrote:
At 11/1/2013 6:00:33 PM, ironmaiden wrote:
At 10/31/2013 8:06:06 PM, Juris_Naturalis wrote:
At 10/31/2013 7:56:55 PM, ironmaiden wrote:
At 10/31/2013 7:32:30 PM, Juris_Naturalis wrote:
At 10/31/2013 6:01:02 PM, ironmaiden wrote:
At 10/31/2013 11:31:24 AM, Juris_Naturalis wrote:
At 10/29/2013 7:24:28 PM, ironmaiden wrote:
What you're saying might be true, but don't forget that whites are still the majority in America. They outnumber blacks by a lot. That's probably why more white people commit murders than blacks; they do a lot of things more than blacks. If you want to prove your point, show me blacks killing blacks and whites killing whites so that we have something to compare your numbers to.

Are you crazy? The FBI has shown time after time that the majority of homicide perpetrators are black.

I honestly don't know the stats. Either way would make sense; if whites were the majority of homicides because they're the majority in the country, or if blacks were the majority of homicides because of multiple reasons.

No, Blacks commit more homicides for 2 reasons. 1.) Poverty and 2.) Gangs.

...I'm not disagreeing with you, if that's what you think.

I'm not sure those are the exact reasons, but they still commit most homicides. That's just my guess as to why.

I don't want to sound racist, but I do think those reasons are valid. You see white people in gangs, but honestly not as many as blacks. I was just saying whichever of the two races committed more homicides, I would probably believe it for the reasons you and I have listed.

Well, one also has to take into account why you might see more black people in gangs. Those reasons might include lack of education, poverty, and other things that aren't due to some magical trait of blackness.

My thoughts exactly.
ironmaiden
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11/1/2013 11:46:04 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/1/2013 8:54:46 PM, Citrakayah wrote:
At 11/1/2013 6:00:33 PM, ironmaiden wrote:
I don't want to sound racist, but I do think those reasons are valid. You see white people in gangs, but honestly not as many as blacks. I was just saying whichever of the two races committed more homicides, I would probably believe it for the reasons you and I have listed.

Well, one also has to take into account why you might see more black people in gangs. Those reasons might include lack of education, poverty, and other things that aren't due to some magical trait of blackness.

Pretty much. However, this is no fault of the white man's. I don't think anybody has a smaller chance at education and success because of skin color. I honestly think that many blacks aren't as motivated. Again, not to sound racist; know some black people who are great people and are really hard working and intelligent.
"I know what you're thinking. 'Did he fire six shots or only five?' Well, to tell you the truth, in all this excitement I kinda lost track myself. But being that his is a .44 Magnum, the most powerful handgun in the world and will blow your head clean off, you've got to ask yourself a question. 'Do I feel lucky?' Well, do ya, punk?"
Citrakayah
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11/2/2013 10:33:39 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/1/2013 11:46:04 PM, ironmaiden wrote:
At 11/1/2013 8:54:46 PM, Citrakayah wrote:
At 11/1/2013 6:00:33 PM, ironmaiden wrote:
I don't want to sound racist, but I do think those reasons are valid. You see white people in gangs, but honestly not as many as blacks. I was just saying whichever of the two races committed more homicides, I would probably believe it for the reasons you and I have listed.

Well, one also has to take into account why you might see more black people in gangs. Those reasons might include lack of education, poverty, and other things that aren't due to some magical trait of blackness.

Pretty much. However, this is no fault of the white man's. I don't think anybody has a smaller chance at education and success because of skin color. I honestly think that many blacks aren't as motivated. Again, not to sound racist; know some black people who are great people and are really hard working and intelligent.

Well, you're wrong.
ironmaiden
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11/2/2013 10:37:29 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/2/2013 10:33:39 AM, Citrakayah wrote:
At 11/1/2013 11:46:04 PM, ironmaiden wrote:
At 11/1/2013 8:54:46 PM, Citrakayah wrote:
At 11/1/2013 6:00:33 PM, ironmaiden wrote:
I don't want to sound racist, but I do think those reasons are valid. You see white people in gangs, but honestly not as many as blacks. I was just saying whichever of the two races committed more homicides, I would probably believe it for the reasons you and I have listed.

Well, one also has to take into account why you might see more black people in gangs. Those reasons might include lack of education, poverty, and other things that aren't due to some magical trait of blackness.

Pretty much. However, this is no fault of the white man's. I don't think anybody has a smaller chance at education and success because of skin color. I honestly think that many blacks aren't as motivated. Again, not to sound racist; know some black people who are great people and are really hard working and intelligent.

Well, you're wrong.

And why would that be?
"I know what you're thinking. 'Did he fire six shots or only five?' Well, to tell you the truth, in all this excitement I kinda lost track myself. But being that his is a .44 Magnum, the most powerful handgun in the world and will blow your head clean off, you've got to ask yourself a question. 'Do I feel lucky?' Well, do ya, punk?"
Enji
Posts: 1,022
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11/3/2013 3:53:30 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/2/2013 10:37:29 AM, ironmaiden wrote:
At 11/2/2013 10:33:39 AM, Citrakayah wrote:
At 11/1/2013 11:46:04 PM, ironmaiden wrote:
At 11/1/2013 8:54:46 PM, Citrakayah wrote:
At 11/1/2013 6:00:33 PM, ironmaiden wrote:
I don't want to sound racist, but I do think those reasons are valid. You see white people in gangs, but honestly not as many as blacks. I was just saying whichever of the two races committed more homicides, I would probably believe it for the reasons you and I have listed.

Well, one also has to take into account why you might see more black people in gangs. Those reasons might include lack of education, poverty, and other things that aren't due to some magical trait of blackness.

Pretty much. However, this is no fault of the white man's. I don't think anybody has a smaller chance at education and success because of skin color. I honestly think that many blacks aren't as motivated. Again, not to sound racist; know some black people who are great people and are really hard working and intelligent.

Well, you're wrong.

And why would that be?

The black-white achievement gap is a fairly well known phenomenon; on pretty much any measure of academic achievement white students on average do better than black students, and the magnitude of this gap is fairly significant. The obvious question to ask would be why - is it, as you think, because black students aren't as motivated as white students, or can the gap be attributed elsewhere?

More significant than the racial achievement gap today is the poverty achievement gap - and while the racial achievement gap has been closing slowly over the past few decades the poverty achievement gap has actually grown to about twice that of the black-white achievement gap (to compare, 50 years ago the racial gap was 1.5x greater than the poverty gap).

But it's not just individual poverty which factors into the achievement gap; poor students who attend primarily wealthy school districts do better than poor students who attend primarily impoverished school districts. As one might expect, schools with less funding are unable to provide as many resources for students and have worse teachers and larger class sizes. Some of the poorest school districts (~500,000 students) don't even offer Algebra 2 (much less calculus or AP classes).

And it turns out that the majority of black students attend schools which are >75% black and that these students are significantly more likely to be in poor school districts. And since such schools tend to do worse on standardised testing they in turn receive less federal funding. The racial achievement gap is largely (although not entirely) attributable to poverty and factors related to poverty rather than motivation or race.

So while there isn't systematised segregation of black students and white students today like there was under Jim Crow laws, it still wouldn't be accurate to claim that black students have equal opportunity to receive the same quality of education and attain a successful job; black students on average do have worse chances at education than white students. And then we get into the other aspect of your comment: "However, this is no fault of the white man's."

Or is it? I think it would be disingenuous to ignore the effects of systematic discrimination under Jim Crow laws on black poverty which ended only a generation or two ago, especially considering the lack of equality of opportunity.
Ore_Ele
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11/3/2013 5:57:10 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 10/29/2013 6:30:01 PM, Wnope wrote:
Ted Cruz is starting his rant on Stand your Ground, and I'd like to address some misinformation of his:

For one, the idea that it benefits blacks as much as, if not more than, whites. The most commonly cited evidence is below:

"According to the Daily Caller, black individuals "benefit" from Florida's Stand Your Ground law at a "disproportionate rate" because those who used the defense were successful 55 percent of the time, while white individuals were only successful in 53 percent of cases (including pending cases).

But the data the Daily Caller cited, from The Tampa Bay Times, reveals that contrary to the claim that blacks largely "benefit" or have been "helped" by Florida's Stand Your Ground law, those who killed black people and cited Stand Your Ground got off at a higher rate than those who killed white people. "

Here's the truth-

"34% of cases involving a white shooter killing a black person were deemed as a justifiable homicide. Meanwhile, in similar situations, when the shooter was black and the victim was white, the homicide was ruled justifiable only 3.3% of the time." - FBI data
http://usatoday30.usatoday.com...

"People who killed a black person walked free 73 percent of the time, while those who killed a white person went free 59 percent of the time."

http://tampabay.com...

"Whites who kill blacks in Stand Your Ground states are far more likely to be found justified in their killings. In non-Stand Your Ground states, whites are 250 percent more likely to be found justified in killing a black person than a white person who kills another white person; in Stand Your Ground states, that number jumps to 354 percent."
http://blog.metrotrends.org...

Well, considering that blacks kill whites at a more disproportional rate (232%) than whites kill blacks, this is expected.

Just something to consider if no one else brought it up.
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
Enji
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11/3/2013 6:28:21 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/3/2013 5:57:10 PM, Ore_Ele wrote:
At 10/29/2013 6:30:01 PM, Wnope wrote:
Ted Cruz is starting his rant on Stand your Ground, and I'd like to address some misinformation of his:

For one, the idea that it benefits blacks as much as, if not more than, whites. The most commonly cited evidence is below:

"According to the Daily Caller, black individuals "benefit" from Florida's Stand Your Ground law at a "disproportionate rate" because those who used the defense were successful 55 percent of the time, while white individuals were only successful in 53 percent of cases (including pending cases).

But the data the Daily Caller cited, from The Tampa Bay Times, reveals that contrary to the claim that blacks largely "benefit" or have been "helped" by Florida's Stand Your Ground law, those who killed black people and cited Stand Your Ground got off at a higher rate than those who killed white people. "

Here's the truth-

"34% of cases involving a white shooter killing a black person were deemed as a justifiable homicide. Meanwhile, in similar situations, when the shooter was black and the victim was white, the homicide was ruled justifiable only 3.3% of the time." - FBI data
http://usatoday30.usatoday.com...

"People who killed a black person walked free 73 percent of the time, while those who killed a white person went free 59 percent of the time."

http://tampabay.com...

"Whites who kill blacks in Stand Your Ground states are far more likely to be found justified in their killings. In non-Stand Your Ground states, whites are 250 percent more likely to be found justified in killing a black person than a white person who kills another white person; in Stand Your Ground states, that number jumps to 354 percent."
http://blog.metrotrends.org...

Well, considering that blacks kill whites at a more disproportional rate (232%) than whites kill blacks, this is expected.

Just something to consider if no one else brought it up.

How does that work?

From the entire population, you have some people who kill other people - these form the population of murderers. If you want to compare the effect of race on murder trials, you can break down the population of murderers into 4 smaller populations: white killers with white victims, white killers with black victims, black killers with white victims, and black killers with black victims. The 232% statistic simply tells us that the population of black killers with white victims is larger than we'd expect based on the distribution of race in the general population. It doesn't intuitively indicate anything about whether these murders are justified, or why of the population of white killers, white killers with black victims are 3.5 times more likely to be found justified in killing than white killers with white victims in SYG states (or 2.5x in non-SYG states).
Ore_Ele
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11/3/2013 6:35:01 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/3/2013 6:28:21 PM, Enji wrote:
At 11/3/2013 5:57:10 PM, Ore_Ele wrote:
At 10/29/2013 6:30:01 PM, Wnope wrote:
Ted Cruz is starting his rant on Stand your Ground, and I'd like to address some misinformation of his:

For one, the idea that it benefits blacks as much as, if not more than, whites. The most commonly cited evidence is below:

"According to the Daily Caller, black individuals "benefit" from Florida's Stand Your Ground law at a "disproportionate rate" because those who used the defense were successful 55 percent of the time, while white individuals were only successful in 53 percent of cases (including pending cases).

But the data the Daily Caller cited, from The Tampa Bay Times, reveals that contrary to the claim that blacks largely "benefit" or have been "helped" by Florida's Stand Your Ground law, those who killed black people and cited Stand Your Ground got off at a higher rate than those who killed white people. "

Here's the truth-

"34% of cases involving a white shooter killing a black person were deemed as a justifiable homicide. Meanwhile, in similar situations, when the shooter was black and the victim was white, the homicide was ruled justifiable only 3.3% of the time." - FBI data
http://usatoday30.usatoday.com...

"People who killed a black person walked free 73 percent of the time, while those who killed a white person went free 59 percent of the time."

http://tampabay.com...

"Whites who kill blacks in Stand Your Ground states are far more likely to be found justified in their killings. In non-Stand Your Ground states, whites are 250 percent more likely to be found justified in killing a black person than a white person who kills another white person; in Stand Your Ground states, that number jumps to 354 percent."
http://blog.metrotrends.org...

Well, considering that blacks kill whites at a more disproportional rate (232%) than whites kill blacks, this is expected.

Just something to consider if no one else brought it up.

How does that work?

From the entire population, you have some people who kill other people - these form the population of murderers. If you want to compare the effect of race on murder trials, you can break down the population of murderers into 4 smaller populations: white killers with white victims, white killers with black victims, black killers with white victims, and black killers with black victims. The 232% statistic simply tells us that the population of black killers with white victims is larger than we'd expect based on the distribution of race in the general population. It doesn't intuitively indicate anything about whether these murders are justified, or why of the population of white killers, white killers with black victims are 3.5 times more likely to be found justified in killing than white killers with white victims in SYG states (or 2.5x in non-SYG states).

It suggests that if blacks kill whites more than whites kill blacks, that there are more murder attempts for these sections (of course, that is only a logical suggestion, maybe someone has facts to the other side). If there are more attempts, it makes sense that in a fair or justified distribution of self defense, that we would see more self defense in those cases.

Of course, something as important as murder should really be looked at a case by case basis. When only looking at statistics, you risk people thinking that some kind of AA needs to be applied and you may find that someone is charged for murder when they justly defended themselves simply because too many people of their skin color were already granted the self defense excuse. Really, each case should be looked at and however the numbers fall is how they fall.
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11/3/2013 6:44:57 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/3/2013 6:35:01 PM, Ore_Ele wrote:

It suggests that if blacks kill whites more than whites kill blacks, that there are more murder attempts for these sections (of course, that is only a logical suggestion, maybe someone has facts to the other side). If there are more attempts, it makes sense that in a fair or justified distribution of self defense, that we would see more self defense in those cases.

But how does this relate to the disparity between Stand Your Ground states and non-Stand Your Ground states - which Wnope's post was about?