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Veteran's Day in the U.S.A

ben2974
Posts: 767
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11/11/2013 12:35:04 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Thanks Veterans and current troops serving abroad!
Wait, what have we been and what are we thanking them for? The last time The United States had to truly defend itself was during the war of 1812, no? You have the civil war, which was between themselves. Then you have the two World Wars, where their participation was nearly nonexistent and unneeded (this can obviously be argued, but let's be real here, the ones who need veterans day in this case are the defending armies of Western Europe). Then we have the proxy wars during the cold war. None of these wars posed a direct threat to the safety of U.S territory and its civilians (as far as my knowledge goes). They were all started on the basis of a preventative political agenda. Then we have September 11's terrorist attacks. US declares war against . . . terrorism? I mean they didn't go to war to take away the lives of innocent individuals comprising virtually the entire nation(s) (no matter those individuals' ideals and viewpoints towards USA), did they? Nope. Their target was/is a people that inhabit multiple territories.

I'm playing the devil's advocate here. I'm asking genuinely whether or not the USA's celebration of veteran's day is a bit misplaced. I can understand the politics behind defending in the interest of the United States, but actually physically defending itself from harm? I might just not know enough history, which could be it. Or I might not know what exactly veteran's day is supposed to signify?

But even so, still much respect for our veterans <3

Thoughtful responses would be much appreciated. No need insults and stuff, thanks.
Noumena
Posts: 6,047
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11/11/2013 12:43:11 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
It seems a bit silly but hey, people like an excuse to set off cheap fireworks so who am I to rain on their parade?
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ironmaiden
Posts: 456
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11/11/2013 4:51:52 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/11/2013 12:35:04 PM, ben2974 wrote:
Thanks Veterans and current troops serving abroad!
Wait, what have we been and what are we thanking them for?

...

The last time The United States had to truly defend itself was during the war of 1812, no? You have the civil war, which was between themselves. Then you have the two World Wars, where their participation was nearly nonexistent and unneeded (this can obviously be argued, but let's be real here, the ones who need veterans day in this case are the defending armies of Western Europe).

Dude...

Then we have the proxy wars during the cold war. None of these wars posed a direct threat to the safety of U.S territory and its civilians (as far as my knowledge goes). They were all started on the basis of a preventative political agenda. Then we have September 11's terrorist attacks. US declares war against . . . terrorism? I mean they didn't go to war to take away the lives of innocent individuals comprising virtually the entire nation(s) (no matter those individuals' ideals and viewpoints towards USA), did they? Nope. Their target was/is a people that inhabit multiple territories.

I'm playing the devil's advocate here. I'm asking genuinely whether or not the USA's celebration of veteran's day is a bit misplaced. I can understand the politics behind defending in the interest of the United States, but actually physically defending itself from harm?

Our involvement in WW2 was in actual defense, unlike Vietnam.

I might just not know enough history, which could be it. Or I might not know what exactly veteran's day is supposed to signify?

But even so, still much respect for our veterans <3

Hell yeah. Even if all these wars aren't justified, that's not the veterans' fault. You celebrate them and respect them because they've gone through hell for us.

Thoughtful responses would be much appreciated. No need insults and stuff, thanks.
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ararmer1919
Posts: 362
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11/11/2013 9:16:43 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/11/2013 12:35:04 PM, ben2974 wrote:
Thanks Veterans and current troops serving abroad!
Wait, what have we been and what are we thanking them for? The last time The United States had to truly defend itself was during the war of 1812, no? You have the civil war, which was between themselves. Then you have the two World Wars, where their participation was nearly nonexistent and unneeded (this can obviously be argued, but let's be real here, the ones who need veterans day in this case are the defending armies of Western Europe). Then we have the proxy wars during the cold war. None of these wars posed a direct threat to the safety of U.S territory and its civilians (as far as my knowledge goes). They were all started on the basis of a preventative political agenda. Then we have September 11's terrorist attacks. US declares war against . . . terrorism? I mean they didn't go to war to take away the lives of innocent individuals comprising virtually the entire nation(s) (no matter those individuals' ideals and viewpoints towards USA), did they? Nope. Their target was/is a people that inhabit multiple territories.

I'm playing the devil's advocate here. I'm asking genuinely whether or not the USA's celebration of veteran's day is a bit misplaced. I can understand the politics behind defending in the interest of the United States, but actually physically defending itself from harm? I might just not know enough history, which could be it. Or I might not know what exactly veteran's day is supposed to signify?

But even so, still much respect for our veterans <3

Thoughtful responses would be much appreciated. No need insults and stuff, thanks.

Dude... wtfuck?
Korashk
Posts: 4,597
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11/11/2013 9:34:35 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/11/2013 12:35:04 PM, ben2974 wrote:
Thanks Veterans and current troops serving abroad!
Wait, what have we been and what are we thanking them for? The last time The United States had to truly defend itself was during the war of 1812, no?

I typically concede that WWII was kinda a war of defense in debates like this mainly because there is a case to be made and it doesn't really affect discussions of the manner you're trying to start.

In essence, just let them have that one.

At 11/11/2013 4:51:52 PM, ironmaiden wrote:
Hell yeah. Even if all these wars aren't justified, that's not the veterans' fault. You celebrate them and respect them because they've gone through hell for us.

It's partially the veteran's fault, they're the ones signing up to fight in these wars. There hasn't been a draft since Vietnam and I'm pretty sure that no draftees are left in the military. Everyone currently fighting volunteered with the ability to know that the US hasn't been in a justifiable conflict since the 1940s.
When large numbers of otherwise-law abiding people break specific laws en masse, it's usually a fault that lies with the law. - Unknown
lewis20
Posts: 5,093
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11/11/2013 11:10:26 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Ya it's not a popular opinion but as long as people are signing up congress and the president can unnecessarily put them in harms way. Then of course we all pay lip service when they get back and they get to deal with ptsd and suicide.
The obvious solution is to vote those out of office who send our troops to unnecessary wars but another solution is to not sign up.
Unfortunately they make joining the military a very tempting. Signing bonus, education benefits...shoot for a generation facing a 20+% unemployment rate just having a job makes joining the military tempting. One of the few jobs you can get with no experience or education.
Not a popular opinion yet I can't help but hold it. The people I know who've joined haven't joined out of some sort of sense of commitment to serving the country but for the structure, getting an expensive education paid for, just to have a job etc.
It would clearly be an entirely different story if America was fighting someone who actually threatened our liberty or security here at home.
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ben2974
Posts: 767
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11/12/2013 11:49:01 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/11/2013 4:51:52 PM, ironmaiden wrote:
At 11/11/2013 12:35:04 PM, ben2974 wrote:
Thanks Veterans and current troops serving abroad!
Wait, what have we been and what are we thanking them for?

...

The last time The United States had to truly defend itself was during the war of 1812, no? You have the civil war, which was between themselves. Then you have the two World Wars, where their participation was nearly nonexistent and unneeded (this can obviously be argued, but let's be real here, the ones who need veterans day in this case are the defending armies of Western Europe).

Dude...

Then we have the proxy wars during the cold war. None of these wars posed a direct threat to the safety of U.S territory and its civilians (as far as my knowledge goes). They were all started on the basis of a preventative political agenda. Then we have September 11's terrorist attacks. US declares war against . . . terrorism? I mean they didn't go to war to take away the lives of innocent individuals comprising virtually the entire nation(s) (no matter those individuals' ideals and viewpoints towards USA), did they? Nope. Their target was/is a people that inhabit multiple territories.

I'm playing the devil's advocate here. I'm asking genuinely whether or not the USA's celebration of veteran's day is a bit misplaced. I can understand the politics behind defending in the interest of the United States, but actually physically defending itself from harm?

Our involvement in WW2 was in actual defense, unlike Vietnam.

I might just not know enough history, which could be it. Or I might not know what exactly veteran's day is supposed to signify?

But even so, still much respect for our veterans <3

Hell yeah. Even if all these wars aren't justified, that's not the veterans' fault. You celebrate them and respect them because they've gone through hell for us.

Thoughtful responses would be much appreciated. No need insults and stuff, thanks.

Thing is that we didn't need them to go through hell for us. They weren't protecting US (and I mean us, the people). They were protecting our interests. Were they necessary? That's probably debatable.
ben2974
Posts: 767
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11/12/2013 1:09:46 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
I'm actually not sure "protecting" is the right term in part of my phrase: "protecting our interests."

Maybe "ensuring the success of" or "coercing" our interests.
YYW
Posts: 36,289
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11/12/2013 1:19:27 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/11/2013 12:35:04 PM, ben2974 wrote:
Thanks Veterans and current troops serving abroad!
Wait, what have we been and what are we thanking them for? The last time The United States had to truly defend itself was during the war of 1812, no? You have the civil war, which was between themselves. Then you have the two World Wars, where their participation was nearly nonexistent and unneeded (this can obviously be argued, but let's be real here, the ones who need veterans day in this case are the defending armies of Western Europe). Then we have the proxy wars during the cold war. None of these wars posed a direct threat to the safety of U.S territory and its civilians (as far as my knowledge goes). They were all started on the basis of a preventative political agenda. Then we have September 11's terrorist attacks. US declares war against . . . terrorism? I mean they didn't go to war to take away the lives of innocent individuals comprising virtually the entire nation(s) (no matter those individuals' ideals and viewpoints towards USA), did they? Nope. Their target was/is a people that inhabit multiple territories.

I'm playing the devil's advocate here. I'm asking genuinely whether or not the USA's celebration of veteran's day is a bit misplaced. I can understand the politics behind defending in the interest of the United States, but actually physically defending itself from harm? I might just not know enough history, which could be it. Or I might not know what exactly veteran's day is supposed to signify?

But even so, still much respect for our veterans <3

Thoughtful responses would be much appreciated. No need insults and stuff, thanks.

Here's my thoughtful and well considered response:

Fuck the hell off.

That is all.
Tsar of DDO
ben2974
Posts: 767
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11/12/2013 1:41:38 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/12/2013 1:19:27 PM, YYW wrote:
At 11/11/2013 12:35:04 PM, ben2974 wrote:
Thanks Veterans and current troops serving abroad!
Wait, what have we been and what are we thanking them for? The last time The United States had to truly defend itself was during the war of 1812, no? You have the civil war, which was between themselves. Then you have the two World Wars, where their participation was nearly nonexistent and unneeded (this can obviously be argued, but let's be real here, the ones who need veterans day in this case are the defending armies of Western Europe). Then we have the proxy wars during the cold war. None of these wars posed a direct threat to the safety of U.S territory and its civilians (as far as my knowledge goes). They were all started on the basis of a preventative political agenda. Then we have September 11's terrorist attacks. US declares war against . . . terrorism? I mean they didn't go to war to take away the lives of innocent individuals comprising virtually the entire nation(s) (no matter those individuals' ideals and viewpoints towards USA), did they? Nope. Their target was/is a people that inhabit multiple territories.

I'm playing the devil's advocate here. I'm asking genuinely whether or not the USA's celebration of veteran's day is a bit misplaced. I can understand the politics behind defending in the interest of the United States, but actually physically defending itself from harm? I might just not know enough history, which could be it. Or I might not know what exactly veteran's day is supposed to signify?

But even so, still much respect for our veterans <3

Thoughtful responses would be much appreciated. No need insults and stuff, thanks.

Here's my thoughtful and well considered response:

Fuck the hell off.

That is all.

fck off what?