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A simple comparison.

airmax1227
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11/17/2013 6:12:47 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
I don't think this should surprise anyone. Israel is a modern country with a mostly free media (certainly more free than any Arab country and as free as most of Europe's.) While Israel has many foreign and domestic problems it would be difficult to prove that it is systematically (by it's government or it's culture) trying to portray Arabs in general as some type of all encompassing boogyman responsible for those problems.

While I don't think that could be said of Jordan or the Arab world in general as it pertains to Jews, there are certainly elements that are more than happy to perpetuate that nonsense. Combine this with an entire lack of free media, and the gullible (and willing) members of the populace are happy to believe the "zionist conspiracy", "Jewish cabal" type of propaganda that is spread freely in these countries. (The protocols of Zion are a great example)

I'd like to believe that the average person in the Arab world dismisses this stuff as nonsense, but it's clear that far too many actually believe it is true.

What these two video show through their juxtaposition is something that should already be obvious to anyone not specifically trying to demonize Israel. Which is, Israel is a pluralistic and free society, the other countries aren't and are mostly proud to be Jew-free.
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Eitan_Zohar
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11/17/2013 7:12:30 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/17/2013 6:12:47 PM, airmax1227 wrote:
I don't think this should surprise anyone. Israel is a modern country with a mostly free media (certainly more free than any Arab country and as free as most of Europe's.) While Israel has many foreign and domestic problems it would be difficult to prove that it is systematically (by it's government or it's culture) trying to portray Arabs in general as some type of all encompassing boogyman responsible for those problems.

While I don't think that could be said of Jordan or the Arab world in general as it pertains to Jews, there are certainly elements that are more than happy to perpetuate that nonsense. Combine this with an entire lack of free media, and the gullible (and willing) members of the populace are happy to believe the "zionist conspiracy", "Jewish cabal" type of propaganda that is spread freely in these countries. (The protocols of Zion are a great example)

There's been arguments that the Soviets are responsible for that.
"It is my ambition to say in ten sentences what others say in a whole book."
airmax1227
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11/17/2013 7:22:53 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/17/2013 7:12:30 PM, Eitan_Zohar wrote:
At 11/17/2013 6:12:47 PM, airmax1227 wrote:
I don't think this should surprise anyone. Israel is a modern country with a mostly free media (certainly more free than any Arab country and as free as most of Europe's.) While Israel has many foreign and domestic problems it would be difficult to prove that it is systematically (by it's government or it's culture) trying to portray Arabs in general as some type of all encompassing boogyman responsible for those problems.

While I don't think that could be said of Jordan or the Arab world in general as it pertains to Jews, there are certainly elements that are more than happy to perpetuate that nonsense. Combine this with an entire lack of free media, and the gullible (and willing) members of the populace are happy to believe the "zionist conspiracy", "Jewish cabal" type of propaganda that is spread freely in these countries. (The protocols of Zion are a great example)

There's been arguments that the Soviets are responsible for that.

If you mean responsible for the protocols, I think it's a well established that the text was created in Russia in the late 19th to early 20th century and gained popularity from there. Henry Ford can be blamed for it's early distribution and popularity in the US.

While it's been thoroughly debunked as a hoax, this doesn't prevent those who are inclined to believe this Jewish conspiratorial nonsense as thinking it's a genuine accounting of a Jewish conspiracy from a first hand perspective.
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Eitan_Zohar
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11/17/2013 7:26:03 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/17/2013 7:22:53 PM, airmax1227 wrote:
At 11/17/2013 7:12:30 PM, Eitan_Zohar wrote:
At 11/17/2013 6:12:47 PM, airmax1227 wrote:
I don't think this should surprise anyone. Israel is a modern country with a mostly free media (certainly more free than any Arab country and as free as most of Europe's.) While Israel has many foreign and domestic problems it would be difficult to prove that it is systematically (by it's government or it's culture) trying to portray Arabs in general as some type of all encompassing boogyman responsible for those problems.

While I don't think that could be said of Jordan or the Arab world in general as it pertains to Jews, there are certainly elements that are more than happy to perpetuate that nonsense. Combine this with an entire lack of free media, and the gullible (and willing) members of the populace are happy to believe the "zionist conspiracy", "Jewish cabal" type of propaganda that is spread freely in these countries. (The protocols of Zion are a great example)

There's been arguments that the Soviets are responsible for that.

If you mean responsible for the protocols,

No, for proliferating throughout the Arab world as soon as it became apparent that Israel was in the Western camp and the Arab states were in the Soviet camp.
"It is my ambition to say in ten sentences what others say in a whole book."
airmax1227
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11/17/2013 7:39:13 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/17/2013 7:26:03 PM, Eitan_Zohar wrote:
At 11/17/2013 7:22:53 PM, airmax1227 wrote:
At 11/17/2013 7:12:30 PM, Eitan_Zohar wrote:
At 11/17/2013 6:12:47 PM, airmax1227 wrote:
I don't think this should surprise anyone. Israel is a modern country with a mostly free media (certainly more free than any Arab country and as free as most of Europe's.) While Israel has many foreign and domestic problems it would be difficult to prove that it is systematically (by it's government or it's culture) trying to portray Arabs in general as some type of all encompassing boogyman responsible for those problems.

While I don't think that could be said of Jordan or the Arab world in general as it pertains to Jews, there are certainly elements that are more than happy to perpetuate that nonsense. Combine this with an entire lack of free media, and the gullible (and willing) members of the populace are happy to believe the "zionist conspiracy", "Jewish cabal" type of propaganda that is spread freely in these countries. (The protocols of Zion are a great example)

There's been arguments that the Soviets are responsible for that.

If you mean responsible for the protocols,

No, for proliferating throughout the Arab world as soon as it became apparent that Israel was in the Western camp and the Arab states were in the Soviet camp.

I'd say it's a bit more complex than that, but it's accurate for the most part regarding the relationship between Russia and the US, and Russia and Israel. Interests these nations have do not always align, and we see that especially when it comes to the mid-east in general, and today especially with regards to Iran/Syria.
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CarefulNow
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11/17/2013 7:54:12 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/17/2013 6:12:47 PM, airmax1227 wrote:
What these two video show through their juxtaposition is something that should already be obvious to anyone not specifically trying to demonize Israel. Which is, Israel is a pluralistic and free society, the other countries aren't and are mostly proud to be Jew-free.

They're not even mostly Jew-free, so how can they be mostly proud of it? Anyway, you're straw-manning Israel's critics. As Israel was conquered by European Jews, it predictably meets a European standard of freedom and pluralism, with a few glaring exceptions, just as did apartheid South Africa, which was conquered by equally respectable European Christians. But comparing Israel to the backward peoples its conquest made neighbors of is as senseless as comparing white South Africans to Bushmen and Hottentots. No, as the Israeli occupation is doing nothing to civilize the Arabs, but is rather doing precisely the opposite and making savages of its European perpetrators to boot, it as much an embarrassment to Europe as apartheid South Africa was.
airmax1227
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11/17/2013 8:14:41 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/17/2013 7:54:12 PM, CarefulNow wrote:
At 11/17/2013 6:12:47 PM, airmax1227 wrote:
What these two video show through their juxtaposition is something that should already be obvious to anyone not specifically trying to demonize Israel. Which is, Israel is a pluralistic and free society, the other countries aren't and are mostly proud to be Jew-free.

They're not even mostly Jew-free, so how can they be mostly proud of it? Anyway, you're straw-manning Israel's critics. As Israel was conquered by European Jews, it predictably meets a European standard of freedom and pluralism, with a few glaring exceptions, just as did apartheid South Africa, which was conquered by equally respectable European Christians. But comparing Israel to the backward peoples its conquest made neighbors of is as senseless as comparing white South Africans to Bushmen and Hottentots. No, as the Israeli occupation is doing nothing to civilize the Arabs, but is rather doing precisely the opposite and making savages of its European perpetrators to boot, it as much an embarrassment to Europe as apartheid South Africa was.

I think you are correct that my statement may have gone too far in saying that they were "proud to be Jew-free", though it was only intended to speak of those that actually believe the "conspiratorial Jewish rhetoric". I don't believe any part of this discussion has anything to do with critics of Israel though (So I can't be strawmanning critics of it), this has to do with certain peoples nations perception of Jews and the propaganda they digest regarding it.

As for your initial question:

"They're not even mostly Jew-free, so how can they be mostly proud of it?"

The countries in question are mostly jew-free. There are few Jews actually living there. Whether or not they are "proud" of it, was a poor choice of words on my part. That this reality exists on the other hand, is not some secret. These are countries hostile to Jews, and any Jew seeking to live there would have to be crazy. While I'm sure a large enough (a significant majority perhaps) amount of the population doesn't specifically have anything against Jews, a large enough of the population believes in the types of things about the Jews as referenced in this thread to make it a place that is not ideal for them. There are no significant number of Jews living in Jordan or Syria for example, and that's what is being referenced here.

"comparing Israel to the backward peoples its conquest made neighbors..."

This is the sense you get from Jordan, one of Israels neighbors?

While I might agree they are "backwards" in some aspects, it's not like Jordan is some type of rare example of a population more willing to consume the type of rhetoric being discussed here, and it's certainly not unique to Israels neighbors. It just has a greater regional effect.

I don't believe the rest of your rhetoric has anything to do with this discussion. I do however agree with you and recognize that Israel's culture and its neighbors are not simpatico. The idea of having an open media allowing for greater dissent in discouraging from blatant lies about a people may favor Israel away from creating certain beliefs about the Arabs, while Israels neighbors (and the larger culture perhaps) may not have the same benefits when it relates to the Jews.
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Eitan_Zohar
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11/17/2013 8:20:41 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/17/2013 7:54:12 PM, CarefulNow wrote:
At 11/17/2013 6:12:47 PM, airmax1227 wrote:
What these two video show through their juxtaposition is something that should already be obvious to anyone not specifically trying to demonize Israel. Which is, Israel is a pluralistic and free society, the other countries aren't and are mostly proud to be Jew-free.

They're not even mostly Jew-free, so how can they be mostly proud of it? Anyway, you're straw-manning Israel's critics. As Israel was conquered by European Jews, it predictably meets a European standard of freedom and pluralism, with a few glaring exceptions, just as did apartheid South Africa, which was conquered by equally respectable European Christians. But comparing Israel to the backward peoples its conquest made neighbors of is as senseless as comparing white South Africans to Bushmen and Hottentots. No, as the Israeli occupation is doing nothing to civilize the Arabs, but is rather doing precisely the opposite and making savages of its European perpetrators to boot, it as much an embarrassment to Europe as apartheid South Africa was.

Why do people who have never opened a book on either feel free to commentate? This is precisely why I got fed up with jat.
"It is my ambition to say in ten sentences what others say in a whole book."
airmax1227
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11/17/2013 8:31:17 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/17/2013 8:20:41 PM, Eitan_Zohar wrote:
At 11/17/2013 7:54:12 PM, CarefulNow wrote:
At 11/17/2013 6:12:47 PM, airmax1227 wrote:
What these two video show through their juxtaposition is something that should already be obvious to anyone not specifically trying to demonize Israel. Which is, Israel is a pluralistic and free society, the other countries aren't and are mostly proud to be Jew-free.

They're not even mostly Jew-free, so how can they be mostly proud of it? Anyway, you're straw-manning Israel's critics. As Israel was conquered by European Jews, it predictably meets a European standard of freedom and pluralism, with a few glaring exceptions, just as did apartheid South Africa, which was conquered by equally respectable European Christians. But comparing Israel to the backward peoples its conquest made neighbors of is as senseless as comparing white South Africans to Bushmen and Hottentots. No, as the Israeli occupation is doing nothing to civilize the Arabs, but is rather doing precisely the opposite and making savages of its European perpetrators to boot, it as much an embarrassment to Europe as apartheid South Africa was.

Why do people who have never opened a book on either feel free to commentate? This is precisely why I got fed up with jat.

As I've said before, I disagree with your opinion of Jat. While I often disagree with him and have argued against some of his opinions in a few threads, he is generally informed enough about the situation to give a reasoned perspective on it. While Jat's lack of response to my arguments has Irked me on occasion, you should at least give him credit for his arguments coming from a place of informed sincerity. Unlike the typical "this is just white people stealing land from brown people" type of shallow perspective seen so often.
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Eitan_Zohar
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11/17/2013 8:44:37 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/17/2013 8:31:17 PM, airmax1227 wrote:
At 11/17/2013 8:20:41 PM, Eitan_Zohar wrote:
At 11/17/2013 7:54:12 PM, CarefulNow wrote:
At 11/17/2013 6:12:47 PM, airmax1227 wrote:
What these two video show through their juxtaposition is something that should already be obvious to anyone not specifically trying to demonize Israel. Which is, Israel is a pluralistic and free society, the other countries aren't and are mostly proud to be Jew-free.

They're not even mostly Jew-free, so how can they be mostly proud of it? Anyway, you're straw-manning Israel's critics. As Israel was conquered by European Jews, it predictably meets a European standard of freedom and pluralism, with a few glaring exceptions, just as did apartheid South Africa, which was conquered by equally respectable European Christians. But comparing Israel to the backward peoples its conquest made neighbors of is as senseless as comparing white South Africans to Bushmen and Hottentots. No, as the Israeli occupation is doing nothing to civilize the Arabs, but is rather doing precisely the opposite and making savages of its European perpetrators to boot, it as much an embarrassment to Europe as apartheid South Africa was.

Why do people who have never opened a book on either feel free to commentate? This is precisely why I got fed up with jat.

As I've said before, I disagree with your opinion of Jat. While I often disagree with him and have argued against some of his opinions in a few threads, he is generally informed enough about the situation to give a reasoned perspective on it. While Jat's lack of response to my arguments has Irked me on occasion, you should at least give him credit for his arguments coming from a place of informed sincerity. Unlike the typical "this is just white people stealing land from brown people" type of shallow perspective seen so often.

"I should have said for the last group, the Palestinians, that they're not even viewed as citizens of the government that is oppressing and controlling them, and slowly but steadily wiping them out. No voting power, no representation for them at all. And yet they are normal human beings and the Israeli government controls their lives - this certainly makes the conditions I originally described inherently undemocratic."
-http://www.debate.org...

Doesn't understand what civil rights are, doesn't know what the Palestinian Authority is, and claims that Israel is "wiping out" Palestinians despite the rapidly growing population in the West Bank and the mysteriously complete absence of any evidence whatsoever of Israel attempting to kill them off. In other words, hasn't even browsed the Wikipedia page, much less read Finkelstein.

That's far from the stupidest thing he's said.
"It is my ambition to say in ten sentences what others say in a whole book."
Eitan_Zohar
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11/17/2013 8:45:47 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Oh, and name one time in which he availed himself to respond to serious criticism.
"It is my ambition to say in ten sentences what others say in a whole book."
Eitan_Zohar
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11/17/2013 8:47:47 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
And actually, looking at the context, he doesn't appear to know what the West Bank is.
"It is my ambition to say in ten sentences what others say in a whole book."
airmax1227
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11/17/2013 8:51:57 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/17/2013 8:44:37 PM, Eitan_Zohar wrote:
At 11/17/2013 8:31:17 PM, airmax1227 wrote:
At 11/17/2013 8:20:41 PM, Eitan_Zohar wrote:
At 11/17/2013 7:54:12 PM, CarefulNow wrote:
At 11/17/2013 6:12:47 PM, airmax1227 wrote:
What these two video show through their juxtaposition is something that should already be obvious to anyone not specifically trying to demonize Israel. Which is, Israel is a pluralistic and free society, the other countries aren't and are mostly proud to be Jew-free.

They're not even mostly Jew-free, so how can they be mostly proud of it? Anyway, you're straw-manning Israel's critics. As Israel was conquered by European Jews, it predictably meets a European standard of freedom and pluralism, with a few glaring exceptions, just as did apartheid South Africa, which was conquered by equally respectable European Christians. But comparing Israel to the backward peoples its conquest made neighbors of is as senseless as comparing white South Africans to Bushmen and Hottentots. No, as the Israeli occupation is doing nothing to civilize the Arabs, but is rather doing precisely the opposite and making savages of its European perpetrators to boot, it as much an embarrassment to Europe as apartheid South Africa was.

Why do people who have never opened a book on either feel free to commentate? This is precisely why I got fed up with jat.

As I've said before, I disagree with your opinion of Jat. While I often disagree with him and have argued against some of his opinions in a few threads, he is generally informed enough about the situation to give a reasoned perspective on it. While Jat's lack of response to my arguments has Irked me on occasion, you should at least give him credit for his arguments coming from a place of informed sincerity. Unlike the typical "this is just white people stealing land from brown people" type of shallow perspective seen so often.


"I should have said for the last group, the Palestinians, that they're not even viewed as citizens of the government that is oppressing and controlling them, and slowly but steadily wiping them out. No voting power, no representation for them at all. And yet they are normal human beings and the Israeli government controls their lives - this certainly makes the conditions I originally described inherently undemocratic."
-http://www.debate.org...

Doesn't understand what civil rights are, doesn't know what the Palestinian Authority is, and claims that Israel is "wiping out" Palestinians despite the rapidly growing population in the West Bank and the mysteriously complete absence of any evidence whatsoever of Israel attempting to kill them off. In other words, hasn't even browsed the Wikipedia page, much less read Finkelstein.

That's far from the stupidest thing he's said.

hmm I hadn't seen that, but nonetheless I still think he argues his point reasonably even if he may be wrong or misguided. When he jumps the shark and goes on about the Khazar theory (which is generally my point of demarcation for taking someone seriously on the topic) let me know and I'll agree with you.
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airmax1227
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11/17/2013 8:53:43 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/17/2013 8:47:47 PM, Eitan_Zohar wrote:
And actually, looking at the context, he doesn't appear to know what the West Bank is.

I don't really want to argue about the quality of another member's arguments or how informed they are. You should just stop talking trash about Jat because he isn't here much lately and because your issues with him took place awhile ago. It's time to move on.
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Eitan_Zohar
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11/17/2013 8:53:49 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/17/2013 8:51:57 PM, airmax1227 wrote:
At 11/17/2013 8:44:37 PM, Eitan_Zohar wrote:
At 11/17/2013 8:31:17 PM, airmax1227 wrote:
At 11/17/2013 8:20:41 PM, Eitan_Zohar wrote:
At 11/17/2013 7:54:12 PM, CarefulNow wrote:
At 11/17/2013 6:12:47 PM, airmax1227 wrote:
What these two video show through their juxtaposition is something that should already be obvious to anyone not specifically trying to demonize Israel. Which is, Israel is a pluralistic and free society, the other countries aren't and are mostly proud to be Jew-free.

They're not even mostly Jew-free, so how can they be mostly proud of it? Anyway, you're straw-manning Israel's critics. As Israel was conquered by European Jews, it predictably meets a European standard of freedom and pluralism, with a few glaring exceptions, just as did apartheid South Africa, which was conquered by equally respectable European Christians. But comparing Israel to the backward peoples its conquest made neighbors of is as senseless as comparing white South Africans to Bushmen and Hottentots. No, as the Israeli occupation is doing nothing to civilize the Arabs, but is rather doing precisely the opposite and making savages of its European perpetrators to boot, it as much an embarrassment to Europe as apartheid South Africa was.

Why do people who have never opened a book on either feel free to commentate? This is precisely why I got fed up with jat.

As I've said before, I disagree with your opinion of Jat. While I often disagree with him and have argued against some of his opinions in a few threads, he is generally informed enough about the situation to give a reasoned perspective on it. While Jat's lack of response to my arguments has Irked me on occasion, you should at least give him credit for his arguments coming from a place of informed sincerity. Unlike the typical "this is just white people stealing land from brown people" type of shallow perspective seen so often.


"I should have said for the last group, the Palestinians, that they're not even viewed as citizens of the government that is oppressing and controlling them, and slowly but steadily wiping them out. No voting power, no representation for them at all. And yet they are normal human beings and the Israeli government controls their lives - this certainly makes the conditions I originally described inherently undemocratic."
-http://www.debate.org...

Doesn't understand what civil rights are, doesn't know what the Palestinian Authority is, and claims that Israel is "wiping out" Palestinians despite the rapidly growing population in the West Bank and the mysteriously complete absence of any evidence whatsoever of Israel attempting to kill them off. In other words, hasn't even browsed the Wikipedia page, much less read Finkelstein.

That's far from the stupidest thing he's said.

hmm I hadn't seen that, but nonetheless I still think he argues his point reasonably even if he may be wrong or misguided. When he jumps the shark and goes on about the Khazar theory (which is generally my point of demarcation for taking someone seriously on the topic) let me know and I'll agree with you.

Hurr durr Jews have rights Arabs don't isn't an argument.
"It is my ambition to say in ten sentences what others say in a whole book."
Eitan_Zohar
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11/17/2013 8:55:00 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/17/2013 8:53:43 PM, airmax1227 wrote:
At 11/17/2013 8:47:47 PM, Eitan_Zohar wrote:
And actually, looking at the context, he doesn't appear to know what the West Bank is.

I don't really want to argue about the quality of another member's arguments or how informed they are. You should just stop talking trash about Jat because he isn't here much lately and because your issues with him took place awhile ago. It's time to move on.

Whatever you say. If he comes back and starts making threads I won't ignore him, though.
"It is my ambition to say in ten sentences what others say in a whole book."
airmax1227
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11/17/2013 8:57:35 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/17/2013 8:55:00 PM, Eitan_Zohar wrote:
At 11/17/2013 8:53:43 PM, airmax1227 wrote:
At 11/17/2013 8:47:47 PM, Eitan_Zohar wrote:
And actually, looking at the context, he doesn't appear to know what the West Bank is.

I don't really want to argue about the quality of another member's arguments or how informed they are. You should just stop talking trash about Jat because he isn't here much lately and because your issues with him took place awhile ago. It's time to move on.

Whatever you say. If he comes back and starts making threads I won't ignore him, though.

Feel free to argue with him civilly as much as you like... In fact, I'll likely join you. I think it's a shame he isn't around much anymore because I did enjoy arguing in some of the threads he created.
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CarefulNow
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11/17/2013 9:01:55 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/17/2013 8:20:41 PM, Eitan_Zohar wrote:
Why do people who have never opened a book on either feel free to commentate?

First of all, if your opinion comes from a book, you should have summarized or posted a link to it instead of those two amateur videos (the first of which no doubt mentioned said book). Secondly, I simply can't believe you've never heard of a book that criticizes simple comparisons like yours on grounds similar to mine. Never heard of Noam Chomsky? Jimmy Carter, for Christ's sake?
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11/17/2013 9:10:19 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/17/2013 9:01:55 PM, CarefulNow wrote:
At 11/17/2013 8:20:41 PM, Eitan_Zohar wrote:
Why do people who have never opened a book on either feel free to commentate?

First of all, if your opinion comes from a book, you should have summarized or posted a link to it instead of those two amateur videos (the first of which no doubt mentioned said book).

Is there some insult there? It was a basic sampling of the attitudes of two sides of a conflict. It's pretty obviously not meant to be sophisticated, but if it makes you feel like an intellectual, by all means condescend.

Secondly, I simply can't believe you've never heard of a book that criticizes simple comparisons like yours on grounds similar to mine. Never heard of Noam Chomsky? Jimmy Carter, for Christ's sake?

Chomsky and Carter don't seem to be authorities in the Pro-Palestinian dialogue. They're simply the most famous.

When I say book, I'm talking about what is known as a "history" in my circles. I don't know what they're referred to in yours, other than "over my goddamn head."
"It is my ambition to say in ten sentences what others say in a whole book."
airmax1227
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11/17/2013 9:17:25 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/17/2013 9:01:55 PM, CarefulNow wrote:
At 11/17/2013 8:20:41 PM, Eitan_Zohar wrote:
Why do people who have never opened a book on either feel free to commentate?

First of all, if your opinion comes from a book, you should have summarized or posted a link to it instead of those two amateur videos (the first of which no doubt mentioned said book). Secondly, I simply can't believe you've never heard of a book that criticizes simple comparisons like yours on grounds similar to mine. Never heard of Noam Chomsky? Jimmy Carter, for Christ's sake?

Any chance you'd be interested in doing a debate on Jimmy Carter's thoughts on the matter? It could be something fairly specific like "Israel is an apartheid state" or similar... We can make the resolution "Israel isn't an apartheid state" so that I have the burden of proof if you like... anyways, let me know if you are interested in this, or any Israel related debate topic.
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Eitan_Zohar
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11/17/2013 10:26:45 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/17/2013 9:17:25 PM, airmax1227 wrote:
At 11/17/2013 9:01:55 PM, CarefulNow wrote:
At 11/17/2013 8:20:41 PM, Eitan_Zohar wrote:
Why do people who have never opened a book on either feel free to commentate?

First of all, if your opinion comes from a book, you should have summarized or posted a link to it instead of those two amateur videos (the first of which no doubt mentioned said book). Secondly, I simply can't believe you've never heard of a book that criticizes simple comparisons like yours on grounds similar to mine. Never heard of Noam Chomsky? Jimmy Carter, for Christ's sake?

Any chance you'd be interested in doing a debate on Jimmy Carter's thoughts on the matter? It could be something fairly specific like "Israel is an apartheid state" or similar... We can make the resolution "Israel isn't an apartheid state" so that I have the burden of proof if you like... anyways, let me know if you are interested in this, or any Israel related debate topic.

You should make an an open debate if he doesn't accept... I would like to hear your thoughts.
"It is my ambition to say in ten sentences what others say in a whole book."
airmax1227
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11/17/2013 10:54:20 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/17/2013 10:26:45 PM, Eitan_Zohar wrote:
At 11/17/2013 9:17:25 PM, airmax1227 wrote:
At 11/17/2013 9:01:55 PM, CarefulNow wrote:
At 11/17/2013 8:20:41 PM, Eitan_Zohar wrote:
Why do people who have never opened a book on either feel free to commentate?

First of all, if your opinion comes from a book, you should have summarized or posted a link to it instead of those two amateur videos (the first of which no doubt mentioned said book). Secondly, I simply can't believe you've never heard of a book that criticizes simple comparisons like yours on grounds similar to mine. Never heard of Noam Chomsky? Jimmy Carter, for Christ's sake?

Any chance you'd be interested in doing a debate on Jimmy Carter's thoughts on the matter? It could be something fairly specific like "Israel is an apartheid state" or similar... We can make the resolution "Israel isn't an apartheid state" so that I have the burden of proof if you like... anyways, let me know if you are interested in this, or any Israel related debate topic.

You should make an an open debate if he doesn't accept... I would like to hear your thoughts.

I might consider doing that, though I always prefer deciding a resolution with someone specific rather than having an open debate. But I'll give it some thought.
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CarefulNow
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11/18/2013 11:20:44 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/17/2013 9:17:25 PM, airmax1227 wrote:
At 11/17/2013 9:01:55 PM, CarefulNow wrote:
At 11/17/2013 8:20:41 PM, Eitan_Zohar wrote:
Why do people who have never opened a book on either feel free to commentate?

First of all, if your opinion comes from a book, you should have summarized or posted a link to it instead of those two amateur videos (the first of which no doubt mentioned said book). Secondly, I simply can't believe you've never heard of a book that criticizes simple comparisons like yours on grounds similar to mine. Never heard of Noam Chomsky? Jimmy Carter, for Christ's sake?

Any chance you'd be interested in doing a debate on Jimmy Carter's thoughts on the matter? It could be something fairly specific like "Israel is an apartheid state" or similar... We can make the resolution "Israel isn't an apartheid state" so that I have the burden of proof if you like... anyways, let me know if you are interested in this, or any Israel related debate topic.

I haven't read Carter's book (though I've read several of Chomsky's on the subject, and so can attest that they do in fact include histories, including his personal experience in the Zionist movement); I only mentioned it to take the hot air out of Eitan's sails. But yes, I would be interested in arguing against a resolution that Israel isn't an apartheid state; and as I take pride in my low win% on a website dominated by libertarians, I welcome Eitan's early vote.