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Alternatives to Obamacaer

BennyW
Posts: 698
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11/20/2013 2:50:58 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
I often hear proponents of Obamacare claim that critics don't have any alternatives. I have a few. The first is what I call the Whole Foods method since it is based on how Whole Foods provides healthcare coverage for their employees. The second is looking at Mexico, that managed to get essentially "universal healthcare" without sacrificing choice. The third is this option Bush advocated.
http://www.forbes.com...
You didn't build that-Obama
It's pretty lazy to quote things you disagree with, call it stupid and move on, rather than arguing with the person. -000ike
ClassicRobert
Posts: 2,487
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12/9/2013 10:20:16 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Well, I've been toying around with my thoughts on this for a while, but here's what I've got so far.

Replace the entirety of the welfare state with a guaranteed basic income, which establishes a baseline for people, regardless of background, to be involved in the market. After that, you remove a few regulations and set up a few more to make the market as conducive to competition as possible.

1. Limit drug patents. Shorten the period from 20 years to ten, and make them non-renewable. Patents are still necessary to encourage innovation, however, when they are too long, this leads to unnecessarily long-held monopolies. In order to lower prices, you must limit patents so generics can arise.

2. Open up drug trade internationally, to an extent (with countries like France, England, Canada, Finland, Sweden, etc.). Right now, it is illegal to import drugs internationally, and this is problematic because in countries like the ones I've listed, they provide similar or identical drugs for much lower prices. This will force generics and name-brand drug companies alike to lower prices.

3. Remove the concept of insurance as it is now. As it is now, it essentially translates into people not having to worry about prices (as much as otherwise), and because they don't have to worry about prices as much, competition isn't happening in a productive manner. Personally, I like the Whole Foods alternative to standard health care.

4. To compliment the above, increase transparency in prices. Health care is one of the few industries where you go in and don't know the prices, and this is terrible for competition, and only encourages health care people to raise prices and exploit people that way. Require all hospitals and medical care centers to give some sort of price menu.

5. Open up health insurance across state lines. More competition won't hurt.

Do these and you will ensure that you have a market capable of lowering prices.
Debate me: Economic decision theory should be adjusted to include higher-order preferences for non-normative purposes http://www.debate.org...

Do you really believe that? Or not? If you believe it, you should man up and defend it in a debate. -RoyLatham

My Pet Fish is such a Douche- NiamC

It's an app to meet friends and stuff, sort of like an adult club penguin- Thett3, describing Tinder
ADreamOfLiberty
Posts: 1,570
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12/10/2013 12:07:51 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
I got a plan that doesn't violate any rights, a government insurance policy... you can mandate away all those nasty profit margins we hear so much about and see whether big bag capitalist really were the problem.
LOL, yeah, it's pretty amazing how they think they can "reason" with you. - Sidewalker, speaking of advocates for sexual deviancy.

So, my advice, Liberty, is to go somewhere else. Leave, and never come back. - YYW

And that's what I did. Contact me at http://www.edeb8.com... by the same user name if you have anything you'd like to say.
drhead
Posts: 1,475
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12/10/2013 10:09:20 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/9/2013 10:20:16 PM, ClassicRobert wrote:
Well, I've been toying around with my thoughts on this for a while, but here's what I've got so far.

Replace the entirety of the welfare state with a guaranteed basic income, which establishes a baseline for people, regardless of background, to be involved in the market. After that, you remove a few regulations and set up a few more to make the market as conducive to competition as possible.

1. Limit drug patents. Shorten the period from 20 years to ten, and make them non-renewable. Patents are still necessary to encourage innovation, however, when they are too long, this leads to unnecessarily long-held monopolies. In order to lower prices, you must limit patents so generics can arise.

2. Open up drug trade internationally, to an extent (with countries like France, England, Canada, Finland, Sweden, etc.). Right now, it is illegal to import drugs internationally, and this is problematic because in countries like the ones I've listed, they provide similar or identical drugs for much lower prices. This will force generics and name-brand drug companies alike to lower prices.

3. Remove the concept of insurance as it is now. As it is now, it essentially translates into people not having to worry about prices (as much as otherwise), and because they don't have to worry about prices as much, competition isn't happening in a productive manner. Personally, I like the Whole Foods alternative to standard health care.

4. To compliment the above, increase transparency in prices. Health care is one of the few industries where you go in and don't know the prices, and this is terrible for competition, and only encourages health care people to raise prices and exploit people that way. Require all hospitals and medical care centers to give some sort of price menu.

5. Open up health insurance across state lines. More competition won't hurt.

Do these and you will ensure that you have a market capable of lowering prices.

I fully agree with all of this. Patents seem to be the ignored part of healthcare costs - I'm sorry, but if it takes pharmaceutical companies 20 years to turn a profit off of a drug they invented when they have a monopoly handed to them, then they don't deserve any further profit, and if they have covered their research costs completely, they do not deserve a monopoly past that point.
Wall of Fail

"You reject religion... calling it a sickness, to what ends??? Are you a Homosexual??" - Dogknox
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ClassicRobert
Posts: 2,487
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12/10/2013 10:34:36 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/10/2013 10:09:20 AM, drhead wrote:
At 12/9/2013 10:20:16 PM, ClassicRobert wrote:
Well, I've been toying around with my thoughts on this for a while, but here's what I've got so far.

Replace the entirety of the welfare state with a guaranteed basic income, which establishes a baseline for people, regardless of background, to be involved in the market. After that, you remove a few regulations and set up a few more to make the market as conducive to competition as possible.

1. Limit drug patents. Shorten the period from 20 years to ten, and make them non-renewable. Patents are still necessary to encourage innovation, however, when they are too long, this leads to unnecessarily long-held monopolies. In order to lower prices, you must limit patents so generics can arise.

2. Open up drug trade internationally, to an extent (with countries like France, England, Canada, Finland, Sweden, etc.). Right now, it is illegal to import drugs internationally, and this is problematic because in countries like the ones I've listed, they provide similar or identical drugs for much lower prices. This will force generics and name-brand drug companies alike to lower prices.

3. Remove the concept of insurance as it is now. As it is now, it essentially translates into people not having to worry about prices (as much as otherwise), and because they don't have to worry about prices as much, competition isn't happening in a productive manner. Personally, I like the Whole Foods alternative to standard health care.

4. To compliment the above, increase transparency in prices. Health care is one of the few industries where you go in and don't know the prices, and this is terrible for competition, and only encourages health care people to raise prices and exploit people that way. Require all hospitals and medical care centers to give some sort of price menu.

5. Open up health insurance across state lines. More competition won't hurt.

Do these and you will ensure that you have a market capable of lowering prices.

I fully agree with all of this. Patents seem to be the ignored part of healthcare costs - I'm sorry, but if it takes pharmaceutical companies 20 years to turn a profit off of a drug they invented when they have a monopoly handed to them, then they don't deserve any further profit, and if they have covered their research costs completely, they do not deserve a monopoly past that point.

THANK YOU. Haha whenever I talk to my dad about this idea, he always says that if you remove the ability to re-patent, you'd need extend the length of the patent- No, 20 years is way too long.
Debate me: Economic decision theory should be adjusted to include higher-order preferences for non-normative purposes http://www.debate.org...

Do you really believe that? Or not? If you believe it, you should man up and defend it in a debate. -RoyLatham

My Pet Fish is such a Douche- NiamC

It's an app to meet friends and stuff, sort of like an adult club penguin- Thett3, describing Tinder
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
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12/10/2013 4:01:31 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
It is time for CRUZ CARE.

"We need to do two things," Cruz explained. "No. 1, we need to suspend Obamacare; we need to repeal it altogether because it's not working. Not fiddle around the edges, but acknowledge the thing is fundamentally flawed. No. 2, we need positive health reform, to empower consumers to purchase health care across state lines and create a true national market, so your health insurance can be afford, personal, and portable."

Cruz said the bills being considered in Congress to allow individuals to keep their health plans are not sufficient. Instead, he intends in the coming weeks to lay out a plan to repeal the law.

"At this point, starting over, stopping Obamacare, I think is the essence of pragmatism," he said."

http://www.nationaljournal.com...
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ClassicRobert
Posts: 2,487
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12/10/2013 8:13:13 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/10/2013 4:01:31 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
It is time for CRUZ CARE.

"We need to do two things," Cruz explained. "No. 1, we need to suspend Obamacare; we need to repeal it altogether because it's not working. Not fiddle around the edges, but acknowledge the thing is fundamentally flawed. No. 2, we need positive health reform, to empower consumers to purchase health care across state lines and create a true national market, so your health insurance can be afford, personal, and portable."

Cruz said the bills being considered in Congress to allow individuals to keep their health plans are not sufficient. Instead, he intends in the coming weeks to lay out a plan to repeal the law.

"At this point, starting over, stopping Obamacare, I think is the essence of pragmatism," he said."

http://www.nationaljournal.com...

Encouraging health care purchase across state lines and creating a national market is not sufficient on its own to lower prices enough to make it accessible for everybody. Drug trade internationally needs to be legalized, and patent law needs to be reformed before any competition is enough to lower prices properly.
Debate me: Economic decision theory should be adjusted to include higher-order preferences for non-normative purposes http://www.debate.org...

Do you really believe that? Or not? If you believe it, you should man up and defend it in a debate. -RoyLatham

My Pet Fish is such a Douche- NiamC

It's an app to meet friends and stuff, sort of like an adult club penguin- Thett3, describing Tinder
DanT
Posts: 5,693
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12/10/2013 10:09:05 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/20/2013 2:50:58 PM, BennyW wrote:
I often hear proponents of Obamacare claim that critics don't have any alternatives. I have a few. The first is what I call the Whole Foods method since it is based on how Whole Foods provides healthcare coverage for their employees. The second is looking at Mexico, that managed to get essentially "universal healthcare" without sacrificing choice. The third is this option Bush advocated.
http://www.forbes.com...

1.) Tort reform.
2.) medical subsidization
3.) deregulation
"Chemical weapons are no different than any other types of weapons."~Lordknukle
Ragnar_Rahl
Posts: 19,297
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12/10/2013 10:28:46 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
The only stable alternative to the hand of the state is the removal of the hand of the state-- starting with the removal of the duty to care.
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
BennyW
Posts: 698
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12/15/2013 4:10:18 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Patents are a big part of the problem and should be done away with entirely.
You didn't build that-Obama
It's pretty lazy to quote things you disagree with, call it stupid and move on, rather than arguing with the person. -000ike
BennyW
Posts: 698
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12/15/2013 4:11:39 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
I also agree absolutely with those advocating for free market care, you shouldn't even have to buy insurance if you don't want to insurance is a gamble either way you look at it.
You didn't build that-Obama
It's pretty lazy to quote things you disagree with, call it stupid and move on, rather than arguing with the person. -000ike
Logical-Master
Posts: 2,538
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12/15/2013 9:07:52 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/15/2013 4:10:18 PM, BennyW wrote:
Patents are a big part of the problem and should be done away with entirely.

Gotta disagree with that . . . big time. Patents encourage innovation and have constitutional support. But yeah, the the heavy emphasis is silly. Health care is just another commodity and does not somehow bypass free market principles.
Logical-Master
Posts: 2,538
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12/15/2013 9:08:40 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/15/2013 9:07:52 PM, Logical-Master wrote:
At 12/15/2013 4:10:18 PM, BennyW wrote:
Patents are a big part of the problem and should be done away with entirely.

Gotta disagree with that . . . big time. Patents encourage innovation and have constitutional support. But yeah, the the heavy emphasis is silly. Health care is just another commodity and does not somehow bypass free market principles.

*the heavy emphasis on health insurance
ClassicRobert
Posts: 2,487
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12/15/2013 9:31:49 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/15/2013 4:10:18 PM, BennyW wrote:
Patents are a big part of the problem and should be done away with entirely.

No. Research and development for drugs costs an insane amount, and if there were no patents, then the companies would have no reason to do this. There needs to be some patents, but they should definitely be reduced, I'll give you that.
Debate me: Economic decision theory should be adjusted to include higher-order preferences for non-normative purposes http://www.debate.org...

Do you really believe that? Or not? If you believe it, you should man up and defend it in a debate. -RoyLatham

My Pet Fish is such a Douche- NiamC

It's an app to meet friends and stuff, sort of like an adult club penguin- Thett3, describing Tinder
BennyW
Posts: 698
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12/15/2013 9:50:46 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/15/2013 9:07:52 PM, Logical-Master wrote:
At 12/15/2013 4:10:18 PM, BennyW wrote:
Patents are a big part of the problem and should be done away with entirely.

Gotta disagree with that . . . big time. Patents encourage innovation and have constitutional support. But yeah, the the heavy emphasis is silly. Health care is just another commodity and does not somehow bypass free market principles.

For quite a while I couldn't make up my mind on patents, they were obviously abused but now I realize they are not free market at all, they stifle competition.
You didn't build that-Obama
It's pretty lazy to quote things you disagree with, call it stupid and move on, rather than arguing with the person. -000ike