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Military and Hollow points.

lewis20
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12/4/2013 2:12:53 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Of course, having rules of war like that is absurd.
I'd imagine if the media would go off the rails if they knew civilians can own and shoot JHP but the military can't.
"If you are a racist I will attack you with the north"- Abraham Lincoln

"Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material" - Leviticus 19 19

"War is a racket" - Smedley Butler
lewis20
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12/4/2013 4:22:54 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/4/2013 2:54:28 PM, Juris_Naturalis wrote:
I don't know. Knowing our liberal media, I'd think they'd say it's "inhumane".

I'm saying they have no idea what hollow points are because they don't know much about firearms. If a big name 'breaks the story' about hollow points I bet they'd have a big uproar.
"If you are a racist I will attack you with the north"- Abraham Lincoln

"Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material" - Leviticus 19 19

"War is a racket" - Smedley Butler
themohawkninja
Posts: 816
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12/4/2013 5:24:18 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/4/2013 1:57:55 PM, Juris_Naturalis wrote:
Should the military be allowed to use hollow points?

Cue my opinion post on this.

The terminal ballistics speaks for itself. hollow point rounds will be more effective against soft targets, and greatly decrease the risk of collateral damage as opposed to an FMJ, or other types of rounds that try to decrease deformation and energy dissipation.
"Morals are simply a limit to man's potential."~Myself

Political correctness is like saying you can't have a steak, because a baby can't eat one ~Unknown
lewis20
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12/4/2013 5:45:14 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/4/2013 5:24:18 PM, themohawkninja wrote:
At 12/4/2013 1:57:55 PM, Juris_Naturalis wrote:
Should the military be allowed to use hollow points?

Cue my opinion post on this.

The terminal ballistics speaks for itself. hollow point rounds will be more effective against soft targets, and greatly decrease the risk of collateral damage as opposed to an FMJ, or other types of rounds that try to decrease deformation and energy dissipation.

Doesn't answer the question does it?
"If you are a racist I will attack you with the north"- Abraham Lincoln

"Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material" - Leviticus 19 19

"War is a racket" - Smedley Butler
themohawkninja
Posts: 816
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12/4/2013 5:47:03 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/4/2013 5:45:14 PM, lewis20 wrote:
At 12/4/2013 5:24:18 PM, themohawkninja wrote:
At 12/4/2013 1:57:55 PM, Juris_Naturalis wrote:
Should the military be allowed to use hollow points?

Cue my opinion post on this.

The terminal ballistics speaks for itself. hollow point rounds will be more effective against soft targets, and greatly decrease the risk of collateral damage as opposed to an FMJ, or other types of rounds that try to decrease deformation and energy dissipation.

Doesn't answer the question does it?

I am saying yes, because what I just stated.

The yes/no part is implied.
"Morals are simply a limit to man's potential."~Myself

Political correctness is like saying you can't have a steak, because a baby can't eat one ~Unknown
lewis20
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12/4/2013 6:21:47 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/4/2013 5:47:03 PM, themohawkninja wrote:
At 12/4/2013 5:45:14 PM, lewis20 wrote:
At 12/4/2013 5:24:18 PM, themohawkninja wrote:
At 12/4/2013 1:57:55 PM, Juris_Naturalis wrote:
Should the military be allowed to use hollow points?

Cue my opinion post on this.

The terminal ballistics speaks for itself. hollow point rounds will be more effective against soft targets, and greatly decrease the risk of collateral damage as opposed to an FMJ, or other types of rounds that try to decrease deformation and energy dissipation.

Doesn't answer the question does it?

I am saying yes, because what I just stated.

The yes/no part is implied.

That doesn't address the reason they are outlawed.
"If you are a racist I will attack you with the north"- Abraham Lincoln

"Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material" - Leviticus 19 19

"War is a racket" - Smedley Butler
themohawkninja
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12/4/2013 6:23:24 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/4/2013 6:21:47 PM, lewis20 wrote:
At 12/4/2013 5:47:03 PM, themohawkninja wrote:
At 12/4/2013 5:45:14 PM, lewis20 wrote:
At 12/4/2013 5:24:18 PM, themohawkninja wrote:
At 12/4/2013 1:57:55 PM, Juris_Naturalis wrote:
Should the military be allowed to use hollow points?

Cue my opinion post on this.

The terminal ballistics speaks for itself. hollow point rounds will be more effective against soft targets, and greatly decrease the risk of collateral damage as opposed to an FMJ, or other types of rounds that try to decrease deformation and energy dissipation.

Doesn't answer the question does it?

I am saying yes, because what I just stated.

The yes/no part is implied.

That doesn't address the reason they are outlawed.

Well, that wasn't in the question, so I didn't see the need to address it.

That, and I don't even know why they are outlawed.
"Morals are simply a limit to man's potential."~Myself

Political correctness is like saying you can't have a steak, because a baby can't eat one ~Unknown
lewis20
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12/4/2013 6:47:50 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/4/2013 6:23:24 PM, themohawkninja wrote:

Well, that wasn't in the question, so I didn't see the need to address it.

That, and I don't even know why they are outlawed.

The question was whether they should be *allowed* to use them, not whether or not they should.
Outlawed in the Hague convention or something because they create more catastrophic wounds.
"If you are a racist I will attack you with the north"- Abraham Lincoln

"Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material" - Leviticus 19 19

"War is a racket" - Smedley Butler
themohawkninja
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12/4/2013 6:49:31 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/4/2013 6:47:50 PM, lewis20 wrote:
At 12/4/2013 6:23:24 PM, themohawkninja wrote:

Well, that wasn't in the question, so I didn't see the need to address it.

That, and I don't even know why they are outlawed.

The question was whether they should be *allowed* to use them, not whether or not they should.
Outlawed in the Hague convention or something because they create more catastrophic wounds.

I think you mean Geneva convention (but then again maybe not). Either way, what I said still answers the question of whether or not they should be allowed. I am just stating why they should be used as a reason for why they should be allowed.
"Morals are simply a limit to man's potential."~Myself

Political correctness is like saying you can't have a steak, because a baby can't eat one ~Unknown
lewis20
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12/4/2013 6:53:48 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
The military isn't worried about over penetration or collateral damage when they're shooting at the enemy.
"If you are a racist I will attack you with the north"- Abraham Lincoln

"Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material" - Leviticus 19 19

"War is a racket" - Smedley Butler
themohawkninja
Posts: 816
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12/4/2013 6:59:48 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/4/2013 6:53:48 PM, lewis20 wrote:
The military isn't worried about over penetration or collateral damage when they're shooting at the enemy.

Why not? They are quite concerned over collateral damage when doing bombing raids, so why shouldn't that extend to shooting?
"Morals are simply a limit to man's potential."~Myself

Political correctness is like saying you can't have a steak, because a baby can't eat one ~Unknown
Citrakayah
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12/4/2013 10:21:34 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/4/2013 6:53:48 PM, lewis20 wrote:
The military isn't worried about over penetration or collateral damage when they're shooting at the enemy.

They should be.
lewis20
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12/4/2013 11:26:02 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/4/2013 10:21:34 PM, Citrakayah wrote:
At 12/4/2013 6:53:48 PM, lewis20 wrote:
The military isn't worried about over penetration or collateral damage when they're shooting at the enemy.

They should be.

Drones, cluster bombs, artillery strikes, gunships...short of demolishing entire cities they kind of only pay lip service to 'limiting collateral damage'. At least when collateral damage is the same ethnicity as the bad guys.
"If you are a racist I will attack you with the north"- Abraham Lincoln

"Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material" - Leviticus 19 19

"War is a racket" - Smedley Butler
ararmer1919
Posts: 362
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12/5/2013 6:20:02 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
Personally I would rather keep my FMJ. I feel that we would lose way to much stopping power using hollow points and most likely then next enemy we fight isn't going to be a "soft target." Also the ones we fight now are notorious for their use of drugs which give them that little bit of extra inhuman strength or abilities. Like taking 4 rounds to the chest without even noticing. Id rather put him on his arse. Also I am a big slogan of the 5.56mm tumbling effect which would be lost with hollow points. The TB effect is one of the reasons why the 5.56 is a more supirior round then oh say, the 7.62 our enemy uses, due to the damage it causes. Iv literally seen a haji get shot in the foot while standing up straight and had the round come out his eye.
lewis20
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12/5/2013 4:32:18 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/5/2013 6:20:02 AM, ararmer1919 wrote:
Personally I would rather keep my FMJ. I feel that we would lose way to much stopping power using hollow points and most likely then next enemy we fight isn't going to be a "soft target." Also the ones we fight now are notorious for their use of drugs which give them that little bit of extra inhuman strength or abilities. Like taking 4 rounds to the chest without even noticing. Id rather put him on his arse. Also I am a big slogan of the 5.56mm tumbling effect which would be lost with hollow points. The TB effect is one of the reasons why the 5.56 is a more supirior round then oh say, the 7.62 our enemy uses, due to the damage it causes. Iv literally seen a haji get shot in the foot while standing up straight and had the round come out his eye.

You're kind of full of sht aren't you?
"If you are a racist I will attack you with the north"- Abraham Lincoln

"Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material" - Leviticus 19 19

"War is a racket" - Smedley Butler
lewis20
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12/5/2013 4:46:17 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
I'm fairly certain the 9mm hollow points the military would use have greater stopping power than 9mm fmj ammo they they use.
Though if I were in the military I'd be more concerned with getting a new standard issue sidearm, those berettas are pretty bad.
"If you are a racist I will attack you with the north"- Abraham Lincoln

"Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material" - Leviticus 19 19

"War is a racket" - Smedley Butler
themohawkninja
Posts: 816
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12/5/2013 5:16:46 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/5/2013 4:46:17 PM, lewis20 wrote:
I'm fairly certain the 9mm hollow points the military would use have greater stopping power than 9mm fmj ammo they they use.
Though if I were in the military I'd be more concerned with getting a new standard issue sidearm, those berettas are pretty bad.

I've heard that the marines are, but I don't know about the other branches.
"Morals are simply a limit to man's potential."~Myself

Political correctness is like saying you can't have a steak, because a baby can't eat one ~Unknown
lewis20
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12/5/2013 6:03:00 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/5/2013 5:16:46 PM, themohawkninja wrote:
At 12/5/2013 4:46:17 PM, lewis20 wrote:
I'm fairly certain the 9mm hollow points the military would use have greater stopping power than 9mm fmj ammo they they use.
Though if I were in the military I'd be more concerned with getting a new standard issue sidearm, those berettas are pretty bad.

I've heard that the marines are, but I don't know about the other branches.

I know some special ops teams get some leeway when it comes to sidearms, like 1911's and HK USP's
"If you are a racist I will attack you with the north"- Abraham Lincoln

"Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material" - Leviticus 19 19

"War is a racket" - Smedley Butler