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Ukrainian students are asking for your help

suttichart.denpruektham
Posts: 1,115
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12/9/2013 10:21:18 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
Ukraine is economically dependent, culturally similar, and linguistically shared more with Russia than the European Union.

In fact most of its economic asset is the result of financial spending during the Soviet era. From any angle, it is very clear to me that Ukrainian's place is with the Russian block and not the European nation.
themohawkninja
Posts: 816
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12/9/2013 6:33:18 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/9/2013 7:24:16 AM, gudzik wrote:
Ukrainian students are fighting for their freedom and asks for your help

http://lustration.in.ua...

Why are they even fighting for their freedom? I keep hearing about their wish for independence, but I have yet to know why.
"Morals are simply a limit to man's potential."~Myself

Political correctness is like saying you can't have a steak, because a baby can't eat one ~Unknown
Ragnar_Rahl
Posts: 19,297
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12/10/2013 10:01:55 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Ukrainian's place
That's pretty racist bro.
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
themohawkninja
Posts: 816
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12/10/2013 10:57:52 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/10/2013 10:01:55 PM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
Ukrainian's place
That's pretty racist bro.

Ukrainians aren't a race.
"Morals are simply a limit to man's potential."~Myself

Political correctness is like saying you can't have a steak, because a baby can't eat one ~Unknown
Ragnar_Rahl
Posts: 19,297
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12/11/2013 7:02:43 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/10/2013 10:57:52 PM, themohawkninja wrote:
At 12/10/2013 10:01:55 PM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
Ukrainian's place
That's pretty racist bro.

Ukrainians aren't a race.

Ukrainians are an ethnicity. If you said "all gypsies are evil," that's racist, in principle, whether gypsies are a race or just an ethnicity, because the concept "Racism" accounts for both the large grouping (race) and the small (ethnicity).
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
themohawkninja
Posts: 816
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12/11/2013 9:28:11 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/11/2013 7:02:43 AM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
At 12/10/2013 10:57:52 PM, themohawkninja wrote:
At 12/10/2013 10:01:55 PM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
Ukrainian's place
That's pretty racist bro.

Ukrainians aren't a race.

Ukrainians are an ethnicity. If you said "all gypsies are evil," that's racist, in principle, whether gypsies are a race or just an ethnicity, because the concept "Racism" accounts for both the large grouping (race) and the small (ethnicity).

Either way, why is Ukraine wanting freedom so badly?
"Morals are simply a limit to man's potential."~Myself

Political correctness is like saying you can't have a steak, because a baby can't eat one ~Unknown
Ragnar_Rahl
Posts: 19,297
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12/11/2013 12:29:42 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
It consists of humans. Humans generally live better uncaged.
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
themohawkninja
Posts: 816
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12/11/2013 1:49:49 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/11/2013 12:29:42 PM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
It consists of humans. Humans generally live better uncaged.

Okay, but why not just ask Russia for sovereignty? Have they tried that already?
"Morals are simply a limit to man's potential."~Myself

Political correctness is like saying you can't have a steak, because a baby can't eat one ~Unknown
Ragnar_Rahl
Posts: 19,297
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12/11/2013 3:23:12 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/11/2013 1:49:49 PM, themohawkninja wrote:
At 12/11/2013 12:29:42 PM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
It consists of humans. Humans generally live better uncaged.

Okay, but why not just ask Russia for sovereignty? Have they tried that already?

Wait, you asked about freedom, now you ask about sovereignty. Make up your damn mind.
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
themohawkninja
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12/11/2013 3:26:58 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/11/2013 3:23:12 PM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
At 12/11/2013 1:49:49 PM, themohawkninja wrote:
At 12/11/2013 12:29:42 PM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
It consists of humans. Humans generally live better uncaged.

Okay, but why not just ask Russia for sovereignty? Have they tried that already?

Wait, you asked about freedom, now you ask about sovereignty. Make up your damn mind.

I thought by "freedom" they were referring to being a free state, henceforth why I used the term "sovereignty".
"Morals are simply a limit to man's potential."~Myself

Political correctness is like saying you can't have a steak, because a baby can't eat one ~Unknown
Ragnar_Rahl
Posts: 19,297
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12/11/2013 4:37:24 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
The state is not something that can be free, it is a tool to support or oppose freedom.
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
themohawkninja
Posts: 816
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12/11/2013 4:47:47 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/11/2013 4:37:24 PM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
The state is not something that can be free, it is a tool to support or oppose freedom.

A state can be free. That is what most developed nations are. That's what sovereignty is.

So, is Ukraine trying to be sovereign or free from something else, and if so what is that something else?
"Morals are simply a limit to man's potential."~Myself

Political correctness is like saying you can't have a steak, because a baby can't eat one ~Unknown
Ragnar_Rahl
Posts: 19,297
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12/12/2013 7:07:24 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/11/2013 4:47:47 PM, themohawkninja wrote:
At 12/11/2013 4:37:24 PM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
The state is not something that can be free, it is a tool to support or oppose freedom.

A state can be free. That is what most developed nations are.
Most are semi free, but 0 nations on earth contain free persons.

That's what sovereignty is.
No, sovereignty is secure jurisdiction.

So, is Ukraine trying to be sovereign or free from something else, and if so what is that something else?
I presume they want to be free from a government that has police beat the f*** out of them when they speak. The particular Ukrainian protestors that are the subject of this thread also want to join the EU-- that is, limit their state's sovereignty, in part because they prefer the liberty-related decisions the EU would make to that of their own political class.
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
themohawkninja
Posts: 816
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12/12/2013 10:16:35 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/12/2013 7:07:24 AM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
At 12/11/2013 4:47:47 PM, themohawkninja wrote:
At 12/11/2013 4:37:24 PM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
The state is not something that can be free, it is a tool to support or oppose freedom.

A state can be free. That is what most developed nations are.
Most are semi free, but 0 nations on earth contain free persons.

That's what sovereignty is.
No, sovereignty is secure jurisdiction.

I take it by 'free' you mean social freedoms then?

So, is Ukraine trying to be sovereign or free from something else, and if so what is that something else?
I presume they want to be free from a government that has police beat the f*** out of them when they speak. The particular Ukrainian protestors that are the subject of this thread also want to join the EU-- that is, limit their state's sovereignty, in part because they prefer the liberty-related decisions the EU would make to that of their own political class.

So, have they tried asking nicely?
"Morals are simply a limit to man's potential."~Myself

Political correctness is like saying you can't have a steak, because a baby can't eat one ~Unknown
Ragnar_Rahl
Posts: 19,297
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12/12/2013 12:27:50 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/12/2013 10:16:35 AM, themohawkninja wrote:
At 12/12/2013 7:07:24 AM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
At 12/11/2013 4:47:47 PM, themohawkninja wrote:
At 12/11/2013 4:37:24 PM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
The state is not something that can be free, it is a tool to support or oppose freedom.

A state can be free. That is what most developed nations are.
Most are semi free, but 0 nations on earth contain free persons.

That's what sovereignty is.
No, sovereignty is secure jurisdiction.

I take it by 'free' you mean social freedoms then?

Social, economic-- the lack of force and fraud.

So, is Ukraine trying to be sovereign or free from something else, and if so what is that something else?
I presume they want to be free from a government that has police beat the f*** out of them when they speak. The particular Ukrainian protestors that are the subject of this thread also want to join the EU-- that is, limit their state's sovereignty, in part because they prefer the liberty-related decisions the EU would make to that of their own political class.

So, have they tried asking nicely?
This is politics, that doesn't exist. I believe I read somewhere that they voted on it though, if that's what you mean.
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
themohawkninja
Posts: 816
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12/12/2013 12:29:16 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/12/2013 12:27:50 PM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
At 12/12/2013 10:16:35 AM, themohawkninja wrote:
At 12/12/2013 7:07:24 AM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
At 12/11/2013 4:47:47 PM, themohawkninja wrote:
At 12/11/2013 4:37:24 PM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
The state is not something that can be free, it is a tool to support or oppose freedom.

A state can be free. That is what most developed nations are.
Most are semi free, but 0 nations on earth contain free persons.

That's what sovereignty is.
No, sovereignty is secure jurisdiction.

I take it by 'free' you mean social freedoms then?

Social, economic-- the lack of force and fraud.

So, is Ukraine trying to be sovereign or free from something else, and if so what is that something else?
I presume they want to be free from a government that has police beat the f*** out of them when they speak. The particular Ukrainian protestors that are the subject of this thread also want to join the EU-- that is, limit their state's sovereignty, in part because they prefer the liberty-related decisions the EU would make to that of their own political class.

So, have they tried asking nicely?
This is politics, that doesn't exist. I believe I read somewhere that they voted on it though, if that's what you mean.

Did the vote pass? If so, did Russia just ignore it?
"Morals are simply a limit to man's potential."~Myself

Political correctness is like saying you can't have a steak, because a baby can't eat one ~Unknown
Ragnar_Rahl
Posts: 19,297
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12/12/2013 12:40:24 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Russia isn't the one doing things. It's the Ukrainian president who is sending police, and yes, both ignoring any pro-EU votes and any anti-him votes, both of which as far as I can tell passed. The Ukrainian president's platform is that the EU thing that his government put up for vote was just a negotiating tool to get cheaper gas from Russia, but it's not like there are Russian soldiers wrecking s**** in Ukraine, as best as I'm able to tell.
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
themohawkninja
Posts: 816
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12/12/2013 12:42:48 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/12/2013 12:40:24 PM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
Russia isn't the one doing things. It's the Ukrainian president who is sending police, and yes, both ignoring any pro-EU votes and any anti-him votes, both of which as far as I can tell passed. The Ukrainian president's platform is that the EU thing that his government put up for vote was just a negotiating tool to get cheaper gas from Russia, but it's not like there are Russian soldiers wrecking s**** in Ukraine, as best as I'm able to tell.

Then why'd they wreck the statue of Lenin if this doesn't have much to do with Russia?
"Morals are simply a limit to man's potential."~Myself

Political correctness is like saying you can't have a steak, because a baby can't eat one ~Unknown
Ragnar_Rahl
Posts: 19,297
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12/12/2013 12:48:09 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
The president announces a pro-Russian motivation. It has to do with Russia ideologically, not practically, in other words.
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
Ragnar_Rahl
Posts: 19,297
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12/12/2013 12:51:56 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Sort of like, when Al Qaeda cites Israeli actions for some of their acts against America. Did America do it? No. Are the perpetrators mentally categorized with America in the minds of their enemies, and do they have a close relationship with America? Yes. We can't just tell Israelis "Stop settlenments," but we can end relationships and choose not to, and the politicians whose constitutuents are settlers definitely have closer ties to America than those whose constituents are not.
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.