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Why is Hitler considered to be right winger?

espoir
Posts: 6
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12/21/2013 12:00:25 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
As the topic says, why is Hitler considered to be right winger?

Adolf Hitler was a national socialist, with a politic more similar to socialism than liberalism or conservatism, except the fact that he degraded people due to their race/religion/ sexual orientation. When I try to conjure a picture of an extreme right winger, I think of the US. How come Hitler is seen to be right when he is more alike Stalin than the US?
Citrakayah
Posts: 1,500
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12/21/2013 12:37:23 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/21/2013 12:00:25 PM, espoir wrote:
As the topic says, why is Hitler considered to be right winger?

Adolf Hitler was a national socialist, with a politic more similar to socialism than liberalism or conservatism, except the fact that he degraded people due to their race/religion/ sexual orientation. When I try to conjure a picture of an extreme right winger, I think of the US. How come Hitler is seen to be right when he is more alike Stalin than the US?

Because he didn't actually do socialistic things?
ironmaiden
Posts: 456
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12/21/2013 12:42:37 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
I think some liberals just pretend to think that so they can say "Hey, look at how evil right wingers are!" Some of the others are just plain stupid.

Hitler wanted gun control, and right wingers generally oppose gun control. Hitler wanted big government, and right wingers generally oppose big government.
"I know what you're thinking. 'Did he fire six shots or only five?' Well, to tell you the truth, in all this excitement I kinda lost track myself. But being that his is a .44 Magnum, the most powerful handgun in the world and will blow your head clean off, you've got to ask yourself a question. 'Do I feel lucky?' Well, do ya, punk?"
espoir
Posts: 6
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12/21/2013 12:44:49 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/21/2013 12:37:23 PM, Citrakayah wrote:
At 12/21/2013 12:00:25 PM, espoir wrote:
As the topic says, why is Hitler considered to be right winger?

Adolf Hitler was a national socialist, with a politic more similar to socialism than liberalism or conservatism, except the fact that he degraded people due to their race/religion/ sexual orientation. When I try to conjure a picture of an extreme right winger, I think of the US. How come Hitler is seen to be right when he is more alike Stalin than the US?

Because he didn't actually do socialistic things?

Yes, he actually did many things that implies on a socialistic governance. He controlled all activities and corporations within the country. Hence he had a planned economy.
Ore_Ele
Posts: 25,980
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12/21/2013 1:32:33 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/21/2013 12:44:49 PM, espoir wrote:
At 12/21/2013 12:37:23 PM, Citrakayah wrote:
At 12/21/2013 12:00:25 PM, espoir wrote:
As the topic says, why is Hitler considered to be right winger?

Adolf Hitler was a national socialist, with a politic more similar to socialism than liberalism or conservatism, except the fact that he degraded people due to their race/religion/ sexual orientation. When I try to conjure a picture of an extreme right winger, I think of the US. How come Hitler is seen to be right when he is more alike Stalin than the US?

Because he didn't actually do socialistic things?

Yes, he actually did many things that implies on a socialistic governance. He controlled all activities and corporations within the country. Hence he had a planned economy.

Let me help.

http://www.oldamericancentury.org...
http://www.ub.edu...

Nazi Germany did not have a planned economy as the government was privatizing (to their crony supporters) to fund its war build up. Nazis were also stringently against communism, labor movements, unions, and other socialists.

They used the term "socialism" merely as a face to gather support. As shared by Albert Speer, "I usually found a group of old Gauleiters waxing boisterous over their beer as they denounced the [Nazi] party's betrayal of the principles of the revolution and betrayal of the workers. Here was a sign that the ideas of Gregor Strasser, who had once led the anticapitalist wing of the NSDAP, were still alive, though redeced to mere bombast." (Inside the Third Reich, pg 72)
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Ore_Ele
Posts: 25,980
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12/21/2013 1:33:53 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/21/2013 12:42:37 PM, ironmaiden wrote:
I think some liberals just pretend to think that so they can say "Hey, look at how evil right wingers are!" Some of the others are just plain stupid.

Hitler wanted gun control, and right wingers generally oppose gun control. Hitler wanted big government, and right wingers generally oppose big government.

Right vs left wing is separate from libertarian vs authoritarian. The Authoritarian Right wing is very different from the Libertarian Right wing, but they are both still right wing.
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
ironmaiden
Posts: 456
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12/21/2013 1:52:29 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/21/2013 1:33:53 PM, Ore_Ele wrote:
At 12/21/2013 12:42:37 PM, ironmaiden wrote:
I think some liberals just pretend to think that so they can say "Hey, look at how evil right wingers are!" Some of the others are just plain stupid.

Hitler wanted gun control, and right wingers generally oppose gun control. Hitler wanted big government, and right wingers generally oppose big government.

Right vs left wing is separate from libertarian vs authoritarian. The Authoritarian Right wing is very different from the Libertarian Right wing, but they are both still right wing.

True, but were Hitler and Nazi Germany capitalist?
"I know what you're thinking. 'Did he fire six shots or only five?' Well, to tell you the truth, in all this excitement I kinda lost track myself. But being that his is a .44 Magnum, the most powerful handgun in the world and will blow your head clean off, you've got to ask yourself a question. 'Do I feel lucky?' Well, do ya, punk?"
Ore_Ele
Posts: 25,980
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12/21/2013 2:07:46 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/21/2013 1:52:29 PM, ironmaiden wrote:
At 12/21/2013 1:33:53 PM, Ore_Ele wrote:
At 12/21/2013 12:42:37 PM, ironmaiden wrote:
I think some liberals just pretend to think that so they can say "Hey, look at how evil right wingers are!" Some of the others are just plain stupid.

Hitler wanted gun control, and right wingers generally oppose gun control. Hitler wanted big government, and right wingers generally oppose big government.

Right vs left wing is separate from libertarian vs authoritarian. The Authoritarian Right wing is very different from the Libertarian Right wing, but they are both still right wing.

True, but were Hitler and Nazi Germany capitalist?

http://www.oxforddictionaries.com...

"an economic and political system in which a country"s trade and industry are controlled by private owners for profit, rather than by the state"

They were clearly a mixed economy (as nearly every economy is), but they were much further capitalism leaning than other nations of the time. Once they obtained power, they pushed further to the right. They began privatization in the 30, while most other nations didn't start doing this until the 80's. Now, perhaps you can argue that while they were pretty far right for their times, the push to the right put the 80's economies further right than Nazi Germany, thus making the Nazi's "leftist" by comparison. However, that would only be a legitimate statement if we put the 80's economies as a moderate center. In all accurate fairness, the 80's were just further right wing than the Nazi (and not nearly as Authoritarian), but the Nazi were still on the right side of the specturm.
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
ironmaiden
Posts: 456
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12/21/2013 2:22:51 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/21/2013 2:07:46 PM, Ore_Ele wrote:
At 12/21/2013 1:52:29 PM, ironmaiden wrote:
At 12/21/2013 1:33:53 PM, Ore_Ele wrote:
At 12/21/2013 12:42:37 PM, ironmaiden wrote:
I think some liberals just pretend to think that so they can say "Hey, look at how evil right wingers are!" Some of the others are just plain stupid.

Hitler wanted gun control, and right wingers generally oppose gun control. Hitler wanted big government, and right wingers generally oppose big government.

Right vs left wing is separate from libertarian vs authoritarian. The Authoritarian Right wing is very different from the Libertarian Right wing, but they are both still right wing.

True, but were Hitler and Nazi Germany capitalist?

http://www.oxforddictionaries.com...

"an economic and political system in which a country"s trade and industry are controlled by private owners for profit, rather than by the state"

They were clearly a mixed economy (as nearly every economy is), but they were much further capitalism leaning than other nations of the time. Once they obtained power, they pushed further to the right. They began privatization in the 30, while most other nations didn't start doing this until the 80's. Now, perhaps you can argue that while they were pretty far right for their times, the push to the right put the 80's economies further right than Nazi Germany, thus making the Nazi's "leftist" by comparison. However, that would only be a legitimate statement if we put the 80's economies as a moderate center. In all accurate fairness, the 80's were just further right wing than the Nazi (and not nearly as Authoritarian), but the Nazi were still on the right side of the specturm.

I guess I could see that. However, Hitler did state, "Our adopted term 'Socialist' has nothing to do with Marxian Socialism. Marxism is anti-property; true Socialism is not."
"I know what you're thinking. 'Did he fire six shots or only five?' Well, to tell you the truth, in all this excitement I kinda lost track myself. But being that his is a .44 Magnum, the most powerful handgun in the world and will blow your head clean off, you've got to ask yourself a question. 'Do I feel lucky?' Well, do ya, punk?"
Ore_Ele
Posts: 25,980
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12/21/2013 2:27:30 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/21/2013 2:22:51 PM, ironmaiden wrote:
At 12/21/2013 2:07:46 PM, Ore_Ele wrote:
At 12/21/2013 1:52:29 PM, ironmaiden wrote:
At 12/21/2013 1:33:53 PM, Ore_Ele wrote:
At 12/21/2013 12:42:37 PM, ironmaiden wrote:
I think some liberals just pretend to think that so they can say "Hey, look at how evil right wingers are!" Some of the others are just plain stupid.

Hitler wanted gun control, and right wingers generally oppose gun control. Hitler wanted big government, and right wingers generally oppose big government.

Right vs left wing is separate from libertarian vs authoritarian. The Authoritarian Right wing is very different from the Libertarian Right wing, but they are both still right wing.

True, but were Hitler and Nazi Germany capitalist?

http://www.oxforddictionaries.com...

"an economic and political system in which a country"s trade and industry are controlled by private owners for profit, rather than by the state"

They were clearly a mixed economy (as nearly every economy is), but they were much further capitalism leaning than other nations of the time. Once they obtained power, they pushed further to the right. They began privatization in the 30, while most other nations didn't start doing this until the 80's. Now, perhaps you can argue that while they were pretty far right for their times, the push to the right put the 80's economies further right than Nazi Germany, thus making the Nazi's "leftist" by comparison. However, that would only be a legitimate statement if we put the 80's economies as a moderate center. In all accurate fairness, the 80's were just further right wing than the Nazi (and not nearly as Authoritarian), but the Nazi were still on the right side of the specturm.

I guess I could see that. However, Hitler did state, "Our adopted term 'Socialist' has nothing to do with Marxian Socialism. Marxism is anti-property; true Socialism is not."

So he was misusing the word. That in itself counters any arguments that he was a socialist. Just like I cannot change the meaning of "libertarian" and start claiming that I am a libertarian.
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
ironmaiden
Posts: 456
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12/21/2013 2:37:44 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/21/2013 2:27:30 PM, Ore_Ele wrote:
At 12/21/2013 2:22:51 PM, ironmaiden wrote:
At 12/21/2013 2:07:46 PM, Ore_Ele wrote:
At 12/21/2013 1:52:29 PM, ironmaiden wrote:
At 12/21/2013 1:33:53 PM, Ore_Ele wrote:
At 12/21/2013 12:42:37 PM, ironmaiden wrote:
I think some liberals just pretend to think that so they can say "Hey, look at how evil right wingers are!" Some of the others are just plain stupid.

Hitler wanted gun control, and right wingers generally oppose gun control. Hitler wanted big government, and right wingers generally oppose big government.

Right vs left wing is separate from libertarian vs authoritarian. The Authoritarian Right wing is very different from the Libertarian Right wing, but they are both still right wing.

True, but were Hitler and Nazi Germany capitalist?

http://www.oxforddictionaries.com...

"an economic and political system in which a country"s trade and industry are controlled by private owners for profit, rather than by the state"

They were clearly a mixed economy (as nearly every economy is), but they were much further capitalism leaning than other nations of the time. Once they obtained power, they pushed further to the right. They began privatization in the 30, while most other nations didn't start doing this until the 80's. Now, perhaps you can argue that while they were pretty far right for their times, the push to the right put the 80's economies further right than Nazi Germany, thus making the Nazi's "leftist" by comparison. However, that would only be a legitimate statement if we put the 80's economies as a moderate center. In all accurate fairness, the 80's were just further right wing than the Nazi (and not nearly as Authoritarian), but the Nazi were still on the right side of the specturm.

I guess I could see that. However, Hitler did state, "Our adopted term 'Socialist' has nothing to do with Marxian Socialism. Marxism is anti-property; true Socialism is not."

So he was misusing the word. That in itself counters any arguments that he was a socialist. Just like I cannot change the meaning of "libertarian" and start claiming that I am a libertarian.

But like he said, socialism and Marxian socialism are two different things. He wasn't communist, but he was somewhat socialist. I guess I would just consider the Nazis right in the middle.
"I know what you're thinking. 'Did he fire six shots or only five?' Well, to tell you the truth, in all this excitement I kinda lost track myself. But being that his is a .44 Magnum, the most powerful handgun in the world and will blow your head clean off, you've got to ask yourself a question. 'Do I feel lucky?' Well, do ya, punk?"
Ragnar_Rahl
Posts: 19,297
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12/21/2013 2:39:10 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Anyone who failed to use their property in accordance with the state's goals was stripped of it in Nazi Germany. This is certainly not property in the libertarian sense of the term.
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
TheHitchslap
Posts: 1,231
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12/21/2013 3:01:29 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/21/2013 2:37:44 PM, ironmaiden wrote:
At 12/21/2013 2:27:30 PM, Ore_Ele wrote:
At 12/21/2013 2:22:51 PM, ironmaiden wrote:
At 12/21/2013 2:07:46 PM, Ore_Ele wrote:
At 12/21/2013 1:52:29 PM, ironmaiden wrote:
At 12/21/2013 1:33:53 PM, Ore_Ele wrote:
At 12/21/2013 12:42:37 PM, ironmaiden wrote:
I think some liberals just pretend to think that so they can say "Hey, look at how evil right wingers are!" Some of the others are just plain stupid.

Hitler wanted gun control, and right wingers generally oppose gun control. Hitler wanted big government, and right wingers generally oppose big government.

Right vs left wing is separate from libertarian vs authoritarian. The Authoritarian Right wing is very different from the Libertarian Right wing, but they are both still right wing.

True, but were Hitler and Nazi Germany capitalist?

http://www.oxforddictionaries.com...

"an economic and political system in which a country"s trade and industry are controlled by private owners for profit, rather than by the state"

They were clearly a mixed economy (as nearly every economy is), but they were much further capitalism leaning than other nations of the time. Once they obtained power, they pushed further to the right. They began privatization in the 30, while most other nations didn't start doing this until the 80's. Now, perhaps you can argue that while they were pretty far right for their times, the push to the right put the 80's economies further right than Nazi Germany, thus making the Nazi's "leftist" by comparison. However, that would only be a legitimate statement if we put the 80's economies as a moderate center. In all accurate fairness, the 80's were just further right wing than the Nazi (and not nearly as Authoritarian), but the Nazi were still on the right side of the specturm.

I guess I could see that. However, Hitler did state, "Our adopted term 'Socialist' has nothing to do with Marxian Socialism. Marxism is anti-property; true Socialism is not."

So he was misusing the word. That in itself counters any arguments that he was a socialist. Just like I cannot change the meaning of "libertarian" and start claiming that I am a libertarian.

But like he said, socialism and Marxian socialism are two different things. He wasn't communist, but he was somewhat socialist. I guess I would just consider the Nazis right in the middle.

LOL no.

Socialism requires there to be cooperation of the means of production. Capitalism does not, and Communism requires the state to have a monopoly of business.

Hitler NEVER expressed cooperation of the means of production. He privatized. Ergo right-wing.

Couple this with his blatantly right-wing social policies, and you have fascism on the right..

Thought experiment: if the proto-fascist tea party is right wing, why would Hitler be left? They share relatively similar positions/ characteristics as Chris Hedges points out here:

http://www.dailykos.com...

http://www.sluniverse.com...
Thank you for voting!
TheHitchslap
Posts: 1,231
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12/21/2013 3:03:38 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Also another indication: religion

Hitler was a religious fanatic; to the point of executing those who disagreed with his religious beliefs (i.e Jews). You would have to praise god during his birthday, and in Mein Kampf he thinks he is doing Gods duty.

Whereas left-winged states are secular/atheist.
Thank you for voting!
AnDoctuir
Posts: 11,060
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12/21/2013 3:45:57 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/21/2013 2:39:10 PM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
Anyone who failed to use their property in accordance with the state's goals was stripped of it in Nazi Germany. This is certainly not property in the libertarian sense of the term.

Property in the libertarian sense of the term is "I own this, come at me bro".
Ragnar_Rahl
Posts: 19,297
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12/21/2013 4:21:15 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Not sure what that statement means.
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
AnDoctuir
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12/21/2013 4:33:32 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Well there isn't very much more to it, is there? Then Hitler comes in with the headshot.... U got pwned, Ragner_Rahl!!1!!!!
EndarkenedRationalist
Posts: 14,201
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12/21/2013 5:00:43 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Because Nazi Germany, despite the fact that it adopted the name socialist, operated under the principles of fascism. Fascism is far right; communism is far left.
Ore_Ele
Posts: 25,980
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12/21/2013 5:18:20 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/21/2013 2:39:10 PM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
Anyone who failed to use their property in accordance with the state's goals was stripped of it in Nazi Germany. This is certainly not property in the libertarian sense of the term.

Not sure if anyone is arguing that Nazism is libertarian.
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
Oromagi
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12/21/2013 6:38:20 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
The classic definition of right-wing "describes an outlook or specific position that accepts or supports social hierarchy or social inequality." The term originates with the division of the French Estates General during the French Revolution. Supporters of the revolution sat to the left of the president's chair, supports of the king to the right.

Certainly, Hitler was a great believer in social hierarchies. He ranked humans by physical characteristics, with Nordic Aryans at the top, Semites and Romani at the bottom. He was also vehemently anti-democratic, believing that Wiemar Republic had failed the German People. People tend to lump a lot of traditionalist, nationalist, or expansionist politics in with "right-wing." Hitler certainly appealed to all three tendencies although I think his politics were more populist and opportunist than committed to any particular economic or political outcome. His end goal was Aryan dominion, a Holy Roman Empire under Adolph the First. By most traditional or common definitions of right-wing then, Hitler was archetypal. In the truest sense of the term "right-wing," Hitler was as right-wing as any French nobleman.
Ragnar_Rahl
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12/21/2013 6:48:06 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/21/2013 5:18:20 PM, Ore_Ele wrote:
At 12/21/2013 2:39:10 PM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
Anyone who failed to use their property in accordance with the state's goals was stripped of it in Nazi Germany. This is certainly not property in the libertarian sense of the term.

Not sure if anyone is arguing that Nazism is libertarian.

Well, people kept talking about "capitalism."

If Nazi Germany was right wing in the sense it supported state power... well, I guess so was Stalin.
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
Tophatdoc
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12/21/2013 6:51:16 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/21/2013 12:00:25 PM, espoir wrote:
As the topic says, why is Hitler considered to be right winger?

Adolf Hitler was a national socialist, with a politic more similar to socialism than liberalism or conservatism, except the fact that he degraded people due to their race/religion/ sexual orientation. When I try to conjure a picture of an extreme right winger, I think of the US. How come Hitler is seen to be right when he is more alike Stalin than the US?

The NSDAP was originally socialist. Hitler changed parties agenda because it was initially inconsequential in the Weimar Republic. NSDAP translates to National Socialist German Workers Party. Hitler expelled the socialist wing from the party after he got of prison in 1924 or 1925(I forget what year).
"Don't click on my profile. Don't send me friend requests. Don't read my debates. There are many interesting people on DDO. Find one of them. Go find someone exciting and loquacious. Go click on their profile. Go send them friend requests. Go read their debates. Leave me alone." -Tophatdoc
Ore_Ele
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12/21/2013 6:54:35 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/21/2013 6:48:06 PM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
At 12/21/2013 5:18:20 PM, Ore_Ele wrote:
At 12/21/2013 2:39:10 PM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
Anyone who failed to use their property in accordance with the state's goals was stripped of it in Nazi Germany. This is certainly not property in the libertarian sense of the term.

Not sure if anyone is arguing that Nazism is libertarian.

Well, people kept talking about "capitalism."

If Nazi Germany was right wing in the sense it supported state power... well, I guess so was Stalin.

You're creating a false dichotomy, and I know you're smart enough to know that what you're saying is logical garbage.
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Ragnar_Rahl
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12/21/2013 7:02:10 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
There's nothing false about the dichotomy "either supports state intervention in the economy, or doesn't."

Of course, the favored class of the intervention is the Aryan race rather than the proletariat.. but that's about it as far as differences in the basic economic program of Nazi Germany and Stalinist Russia.
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
Ore_Ele
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12/21/2013 7:10:10 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/21/2013 7:02:10 PM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
There's nothing false about the dichotomy "either supports state intervention in the economy, or doesn't."

Of course, the favored class of the intervention is the Aryan race rather than the proletariat.. but that's about it as far as differences in the basic economic program of Nazi Germany and Stalinist Russia.

That's the libertarian v authoritarians scale, not the left v right scale, as has already been pointed out.
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darkkermit
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12/21/2013 7:19:30 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
I think this is why the whole left vs. right system fails, due to its failure to adequately catgorize ppl like Hitler. Hitler was obviously for market regulations and government control, which some might classify as "left-wing". However, Hitler didn't allow strikes and also believed in racial supremacy, which go against the idea of egalitarinism and labor rights that the left holds.

You couldn't exactly strike in communist Soviet Union either though, and it wasn't exactly great working conditions there either.
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