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The Constitution

comoncents
Posts: 5,647
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1/13/2010 10:54:24 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 1/13/2010 10:50:51 AM, I-am-a-panda wrote:
Stopped watching the first video at 3:10. Stupid, stupid, stupid.

The second is better, and the third is ok.
Koopin
Posts: 12,090
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1/13/2010 11:56:34 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
You know, I am proud of my country. I hate when people who have never been to America bash it, but what I hate the most is when Americans bash their own country.
I know it's their right, but so many soldiers fought and died for them. America is one of the best countries ever. I always get proud when I here her anthem, and would proudly give my life for her.

I laughed at I-am-panda's comment. It just goes to show you that people can't stand God. It's weird seeing God's word come to life about people hating him.
kfc
I-am-a-panda
Posts: 15,380
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1/13/2010 12:07:31 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 1/13/2010 11:56:34 AM, Koopin wrote:
I laughed at I-am-panda's comment. It just goes to show you that people can't stand God. It's weird seeing God's word come to life about people hating him.

I can stand a discussion about God, but not one when people invoke God in discussion regarding legal civil documents.
Pizza. I have enormous respect for Pizza.
InsertNameHere
Posts: 15,699
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1/13/2010 12:12:41 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
Seeing that the videos are from Fox News tells me I can't take this seriously... Fox News is good for comic relief, nothing more.
Volkov
Posts: 9,765
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1/13/2010 2:01:33 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 1/13/2010 11:56:34 AM, Koopin wrote:
I laughed at I-am-panda's comment. It just goes to show you that people can't stand God. It's weird seeing God's word come to life about people hating him.

God has no purpose being in any civil documentation. Secular society is called "secular" for a reason, Koopin.
comoncents
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1/13/2010 2:03:18 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 1/13/2010 2:01:33 PM, Volkov wrote:
At 1/13/2010 11:56:34 AM, Koopin wrote:
I laughed at I-am-panda's comment. It just goes to show you that people can't stand God. It's weird seeing God's word come to life about people hating him.

God has no purpose being in any civil documentation. Secular society is called "secular" for a reason, Koopin.

Why did God come up, b/c of the "where we get our freedom" part?
Koopin
Posts: 12,090
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1/13/2010 2:09:34 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 1/13/2010 2:01:33 PM, Volkov wrote:
At 1/13/2010 11:56:34 AM, Koopin wrote:
I laughed at I-am-panda's comment. It just goes to show you that people can't stand God. It's weird seeing God's word come to life about people hating him.

God has no purpose being in any civil documentation. Secular society is called "secular" for a reason, Koopin.

In God we trust?
Church is not God. It was not the separation of God and state.

"In God we trust,"
"One nation, under God."
kfc
Volkov
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1/13/2010 2:10:08 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 1/13/2010 2:03:18 PM, comoncents wrote:
Why did God come up, b/c of the "where we get our freedom" part?

Indeed, as I think that is what Panda is referring to.

Which is an amusing point which proves another point in another argument about "Natural law" being the same as "Divine law." I like it when people agree with me.
Volkov
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1/13/2010 2:12:46 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 1/13/2010 2:09:34 PM, Koopin wrote:
In God we trust?
Church is not God. It was not the separation of God and state.

"In God we trust,"

.... should be taken away.

"One nation, under God."

.... should also be taken away.

These words, while culturally and historically significant, hold no real value except for religious extremists. They aren't things that do or should have impact upon secular governance. God is not involved with legislature and bureaucracy (especially the latter) - so why should His name invoked?
comoncents
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1/13/2010 2:13:09 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 1/13/2010 2:09:34 PM, Koopin wrote:
At 1/13/2010 2:01:33 PM, Volkov wrote:
At 1/13/2010 11:56:34 AM, Koopin wrote:
I laughed at I-am-panda's comment. It just goes to show you that people can't stand God. It's weird seeing God's word come to life about people hating him.

God has no purpose being in any civil documentation. Secular society is called "secular" for a reason, Koopin.

In God we trust?
Church is not God. It was not the separation of God and state.

"In God we trust,"
"One nation, under God."

The motto first appeared on a United States coin in 1864 during strong Christian sentiment emerging during the Civil War, but In God We Trust did not become the official U.S. national motto until after the passage of an Act of Congress in 1956.

The motto E Pluribus Unum (Latin for "One from many" or "One from many parts.") was approved for use on the Great Seal of the United States in 1782. It still appears on coins and currency, and was widely considered the national motto de facto.
comoncents
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1/13/2010 2:14:53 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 1/13/2010 2:09:34 PM, Koopin wrote:
At 1/13/2010 2:01:33 PM, Volkov wrote:
At 1/13/2010 11:56:34 AM, Koopin wrote:
I laughed at I-am-panda's comment. It just goes to show you that people can't stand God. It's weird seeing God's word come to life about people hating him.

God has no purpose being in any civil documentation. Secular society is called "secular" for a reason, Koopin.

In God we trust?
Church is not God. It was not the separation of God and state.

"In God we trust,"
"One nation, under God."

I will admit that i respect what religion had done for this country.
So did our Founding Fathers.

Some people need religion to find morals, i do not fault them for it.
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
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1/13/2010 2:23:36 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 1/13/2010 2:14:53 PM, comoncents wrote:

I respect what religion had done for this country.

I don't.

So did our Founding Fathers.

No they didn't. Thomas Paine, Benjamin Franklin, James Madison, and Thomas Jefferson hated religion and felt it was an enemy of freedom. I would paste some quotes, but I'm on my iPod.

Some people need religion to find morals,

No they don't.

i do not fault them for it.

I do.
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
Koopin
Posts: 12,090
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1/13/2010 2:26:08 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 1/13/2010 2:23:36 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
At 1/13/2010 2:14:53 PM, comoncents wrote:

I respect what religion had done for this country.

I don't.

So did our Founding Fathers.

No they didn't. Thomas Paine, Benjamin Franklin, James Madison, and Thomas Jefferson hated religion and felt it was an enemy of freedom. I would paste some quotes, but I'm on my iPod.


Some people need religion to find morals,

No they don't.

i do not fault them for it.

I do.

Can you say...AntiChrist?
kfc
InsertNameHere
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1/13/2010 2:26:17 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 1/13/2010 2:23:36 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
So did our Founding Fathers.

No they didn't. Thomas Paine, Benjamin Franklin, James Madison, and Thomas Jefferson hated religion and felt it was an enemy of freedom. I would paste some quotes, but I'm on my iPod.

Weren't they Deists rather than Christians?
Volkov
Posts: 9,765
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1/13/2010 2:30:49 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 1/13/2010 2:23:36 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
I don't.

Thats because you believe religion is controlled by reptillians.

No they didn't. Thomas Paine, Benjamin Franklin, James Madison, and Thomas Jefferson hated religion and felt it was an enemy of freedom.

So would any liberal of that time. Anti-clericalism isn't a defining characteristic for nothing.

No they don't.

Some do. Its a psychological fact that some people need a direct authority in order to help them discover their morality, or help deal with crises.

I do.

Thats because you believe they're reptillians.
comoncents
Posts: 5,647
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1/13/2010 2:35:47 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
The only thing i would have added was that a person can hate religion, but still respect its power to help people find morality.
Volkov
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1/13/2010 2:38:47 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 1/13/2010 2:35:47 PM, comoncents wrote:
The only thing i would have added was that a person can hate religion, but still respect its power to help people find morality.

Sure. But, for Paine especially, this wasn't the case. The ideology of that day called for quite direct separation of state, and there was an equal amount of anti-clericalism that flowed throughout it. They respected more the literal power of the Church, and sometimes the individuals that made it up, more than they respected the concept.
comoncents
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1/13/2010 2:41:16 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 1/13/2010 2:38:47 PM, Volkov wrote:
At 1/13/2010 2:35:47 PM, comoncents wrote:
The only thing i would have added was that a person can hate religion, but still respect its power to help people find morality.

Sure. But, for Paine especially, this wasn't the case. The ideology of that day called for quite direct separation of state, and there was an equal amount of anti-clericalism that flowed throughout it. They respected more the literal power of the Church, and sometimes the individuals that made it up, more than they respected the concept.

Yeah, but Benjamin Franklin, James Madison, and Thomas Jefferson was a bit of a different story.

Also for G- dub.

(aka- George Washington.)
comoncents
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1/14/2010 8:23:58 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 1/14/2010 8:14:49 PM, wjmelements wrote:
Comoncents, would you take this if I sent it to you? http://www.debate.org...

I could not defend a con position, i kinda believe what you throwing down.

Thanks though.
Volkov
Posts: 9,765
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1/14/2010 8:27:40 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 1/14/2010 8:26:38 PM, mongeese wrote:
The Constitution is dead. They killed it a long time ago.

The Constitution was never alive to begin with. Its an inanimate object. :)
comoncents
Posts: 5,647
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1/14/2010 8:28:06 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 1/14/2010 8:26:38 PM, mongeese wrote:
The Constitution is dead. They killed it a long time ago.

No it is not dead!
mongeese
Posts: 5,387
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1/14/2010 8:33:50 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 1/14/2010 8:27:40 PM, Volkov wrote:
At 1/14/2010 8:26:38 PM, mongeese wrote:
The Constitution is dead. They killed it a long time ago.

The Constitution was never alive to begin with. Its an inanimate object. :)

Okay, then its legal significance is dead.
mongeese
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1/14/2010 8:34:13 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 1/14/2010 8:28:06 PM, comoncents wrote:
At 1/14/2010 8:26:38 PM, mongeese wrote:
The Constitution is dead. They killed it a long time ago.

No it is not dead!

Then why doesn't it play a role in American politics anymore?