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Libertarians and Endangered Species

drhead
Posts: 1,475
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1/7/2014 10:36:17 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
(No, this is not some rant against libertarians centered around an incredibly stupid analogy, although the title could reasonably be interpreted to suggest that.)

What is the libertarian/an-cap solution to the problem of endangered species? Humans seem to be rather skilled at hunting things to extinction, usually for fur. This does present an interesting economic problem: as a species is closer to extinction, they are more scarce, meaning the value goes up. If the value of a good increases as it is used more and more, what will stop people from using it to exhaustion? Without universal cooperation, it would be nearly impossible to stop a species from going extinct - it only takes a few idiots to screw this kind of thing up. Ultimately, without some force to stop people from hunting species to extinction, we will at least completely exhaust a good, and at most screw up the ecosystem while doing it. These are both negative outcomes. What solutions are available, aside from regulation?
Wall of Fail

"You reject religion... calling it a sickness, to what ends??? Are you a Homosexual??" - Dogknox
"For me, Evolution is a zombie theory. I mean imaginary cartoons and wishful thinking support it?" - Dragonfang
"There are no mental health benefits of atheism. It is devoid of rational thinking and mental protection." - Gabrian
YYW
Posts: 36,287
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1/7/2014 10:41:36 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
The solution is for individual people to make the decision not to fvck over nature... because individuals always act not only with their best interest at heart, but the best interest of all the people and things around them.

*end cheeky political jeer*
Tsar of DDO
Ore_Ele
Posts: 25,980
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1/7/2014 11:09:59 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 1/7/2014 10:36:17 PM, drhead wrote:
(No, this is not some rant against libertarians centered around an incredibly stupid analogy, although the title could reasonably be interpreted to suggest that.)

What is the libertarian/an-cap solution to the problem of endangered species? Humans seem to be rather skilled at hunting things to extinction, usually for fur. This does present an interesting economic problem: as a species is closer to extinction, they are more scarce, meaning the value goes up. If the value of a good increases as it is used more and more, what will stop people from using it to exhaustion? Without universal cooperation, it would be nearly impossible to stop a species from going extinct - it only takes a few idiots to screw this kind of thing up. Ultimately, without some force to stop people from hunting species to extinction, we will at least completely exhaust a good, and at most screw up the ecosystem while doing it. These are both negative outcomes. What solutions are available, aside from regulation?

AnCaps would say you falsely assume there is a problem that needs to be dealt with. Species will go exstinct, and new species will rise, it is the way of things. The way they always have been and the way they always will go.
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
Noumena
Posts: 6,047
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1/7/2014 11:34:34 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 1/7/2014 10:41:36 PM, YYW wrote:
The solution is for the government to make the decision not to fvck over nature... because the government always act not only with their best interest at heart, but the best interest of all the people and things around them.

*end cheeky political jeer*

Don't worry I'm not actually making an argument. The way *all* of you go about it is (usually) equally bad.
: At 5/13/2014 7:05:20 PM, Crescendo wrote:
: The difference is that the gay movement is currently pushing their will on Churches, as shown in the link to gay marriage in Denmark. Meanwhile, the Inquisition ended several centuries ago.
Ragnar_Rahl
Posts: 19,297
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1/8/2014 4:34:22 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 1/7/2014 10:36:17 PM, drhead wrote:
What is the libertarian/an-cap solution to the problem of endangered species?
Humans seem to be rather skilled at hunting things to extinction, usually for fur. This does present an interesting economic problem: as a species is closer to extinction, they are more scarce, meaning the value goes up. If the value of a good increases as it is used more and more, what will stop people from using it to exhaustion? Without universal cooperation, it would be nearly impossible to stop a species from going extinct - it only takes a few idiots to screw this kind of thing up.
In other words, your problem is a tragedy of the commons. The solution, as always, is private property-- i.e., breeding the animal in captivity.

screw up the ecosystem
What's an "Ecosystem" and what constitutes screwing it up, in your mind?
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
YYW
Posts: 36,287
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1/8/2014 7:47:01 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 1/7/2014 11:34:34 PM, Noumena wrote:
At 1/7/2014 10:41:36 PM, YYW wrote:
The solution is for the government to make the decision not to fvck over nature... because the government always act not only with their best interest at heart, but the best interest of all the people and things around them.

*end cheeky political jeer*

Don't worry I'm not actually making crystal meth. The way *all* of you go about crystal meth is (usually) equally bad.

lol, very clever, Spinko
Tsar of DDO
Quan
Posts: 97
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1/8/2014 8:16:04 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 1/7/2014 10:36:17 PM, drhead wrote:
What is the libertarian/an-cap solution to the problem of endangered species?
It's not a problem and therefore needs no solution.
drhead
Posts: 1,475
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1/8/2014 1:20:13 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 1/8/2014 4:34:22 AM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
At 1/7/2014 10:36:17 PM, drhead wrote:
What is the libertarian/an-cap solution to the problem of endangered species?
Humans seem to be rather skilled at hunting things to extinction, usually for fur. This does present an interesting economic problem: as a species is closer to extinction, they are more scarce, meaning the value goes up. If the value of a good increases as it is used more and more, what will stop people from using it to exhaustion? Without universal cooperation, it would be nearly impossible to stop a species from going extinct - it only takes a few idiots to screw this kind of thing up.
In other words, your problem is a tragedy of the commons. The solution, as always, is private property-- i.e., breeding the animal in captivity.

screw up the ecosystem
What's an "Ecosystem" and what constitutes screwing it up, in your mind?

Elimination of a species can be the elimination of a food source for another species. This can cause a chain of events known as an ecosystem collapse, where other species become threatened due to elimination of food sources. This would likely result in the unintentional eradication of several species, some of which may be food sources for humans.
Wall of Fail

"You reject religion... calling it a sickness, to what ends??? Are you a Homosexual??" - Dogknox
"For me, Evolution is a zombie theory. I mean imaginary cartoons and wishful thinking support it?" - Dragonfang
"There are no mental health benefits of atheism. It is devoid of rational thinking and mental protection." - Gabrian
Noumena
Posts: 6,047
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1/8/2014 2:16:44 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 1/8/2014 7:47:01 AM, YYW wrote:
At 1/7/2014 11:34:34 PM, Noumena wrote:
At 1/7/2014 10:41:36 PM, YYW wrote:
The solution is for the government to make the decision not to fvck over nature... because the government always act not only with their best interest at heart, but the best interest of all the people and things around them.

*end cheeky political jeer*

Don't worry I'm not actually making crystal meth. The way *all* of you go about crystal meth is (usually) equally bad.

lol, very clever, Spinko

Crystal meth is crystal meth, man. That's why I stick to heroin.
: At 5/13/2014 7:05:20 PM, Crescendo wrote:
: The difference is that the gay movement is currently pushing their will on Churches, as shown in the link to gay marriage in Denmark. Meanwhile, the Inquisition ended several centuries ago.
InvictusManeo
Posts: 384
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1/8/2014 2:33:29 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 1/8/2014 8:16:04 AM, Quan wrote:
At 1/7/2014 10:36:17 PM, drhead wrote:
What is the libertarian/an-cap solution to the problem of endangered species?
It's not a problem and therefore needs no solution.

What about over-fishing and creating an unbalance in the ecosystem? Think about trawling, too. Over-fishing doesn't just mean less fish.

Yes this is one example but your statement is just as blanket as 'endangered species need to be saved'.
Ragnar_Rahl
Posts: 19,297
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1/8/2014 6:29:36 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 1/8/2014 1:20:13 PM, drhead wrote:
At 1/8/2014 4:34:22 AM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
At 1/7/2014 10:36:17 PM, drhead wrote:
What is the libertarian/an-cap solution to the problem of endangered species?
Humans seem to be rather skilled at hunting things to extinction, usually for fur. This does present an interesting economic problem: as a species is closer to extinction, they are more scarce, meaning the value goes up. If the value of a good increases as it is used more and more, what will stop people from using it to exhaustion? Without universal cooperation, it would be nearly impossible to stop a species from going extinct - it only takes a few idiots to screw this kind of thing up.
In other words, your problem is a tragedy of the commons. The solution, as always, is private property-- i.e., breeding the animal in captivity.

screw up the ecosystem
What's an "Ecosystem" and what constitutes screwing it up, in your mind?

Elimination of a species can be the elimination of a food source for another species. This can cause a chain of events known as an ecosystem collapse, where other species become threatened due to elimination of food sources.

And then new species evolve.
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
darkkermit
Posts: 11,204
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1/8/2014 6:32:07 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 1/7/2014 11:09:59 PM, Ore_Ele wrote:
At 1/7/2014 10:36:17 PM, drhead wrote:
(No, this is not some rant against libertarians centered around an incredibly stupid analogy, although the title could reasonably be interpreted to suggest that.)

What is the libertarian/an-cap solution to the problem of endangered species? Humans seem to be rather skilled at hunting things to extinction, usually for fur. This does present an interesting economic problem: as a species is closer to extinction, they are more scarce, meaning the value goes up. If the value of a good increases as it is used more and more, what will stop people from using it to exhaustion? Without universal cooperation, it would be nearly impossible to stop a species from going extinct - it only takes a few idiots to screw this kind of thing up. Ultimately, without some force to stop people from hunting species to extinction, we will at least completely exhaust a good, and at most screw up the ecosystem while doing it. These are both negative outcomes. What solutions are available, aside from regulation?

AnCaps would say you falsely assume there is a problem that needs to be dealt with. Species will go exstinct, and new species will rise, it is the way of things. The way they always have been and the way they always will go.

I'd also like to add if the species had any value, then they can become private property, thus saving it from extinction.
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drhead
Posts: 1,475
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1/9/2014 12:31:52 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 1/8/2014 6:29:36 PM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
At 1/8/2014 1:20:13 PM, drhead wrote:
At 1/8/2014 4:34:22 AM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
At 1/7/2014 10:36:17 PM, drhead wrote:
What is the libertarian/an-cap solution to the problem of endangered species?
Humans seem to be rather skilled at hunting things to extinction, usually for fur. This does present an interesting economic problem: as a species is closer to extinction, they are more scarce, meaning the value goes up. If the value of a good increases as it is used more and more, what will stop people from using it to exhaustion? Without universal cooperation, it would be nearly impossible to stop a species from going extinct - it only takes a few idiots to screw this kind of thing up.
In other words, your problem is a tragedy of the commons. The solution, as always, is private property-- i.e., breeding the animal in captivity.

screw up the ecosystem
What's an "Ecosystem" and what constitutes screwing it up, in your mind?

Elimination of a species can be the elimination of a food source for another species. This can cause a chain of events known as an ecosystem collapse, where other species become threatened due to elimination of food sources.

And then new species evolve.

And what are we supposed to do while we wait for that to happen? What will we do to cope with the damage caused?
Wall of Fail

"You reject religion... calling it a sickness, to what ends??? Are you a Homosexual??" - Dogknox
"For me, Evolution is a zombie theory. I mean imaginary cartoons and wishful thinking support it?" - Dragonfang
"There are no mental health benefits of atheism. It is devoid of rational thinking and mental protection." - Gabrian