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Music Piracy Should Be Legal

donald.keller
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1/10/2014 3:13:07 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
How about this... When you write the lyrics and rhythm, and have your friends come together and practice for hours a day to record the instruments and vocals, you can talk about having the song for free.
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TheHitchslap
Posts: 1,231
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1/10/2014 3:34:03 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 1/10/2014 3:13:07 PM, donald.keller wrote:
How about this... When you write the lyrics and rhythm, and have your friends come together and practice for hours a day to record the instruments and vocals, you can talk about having the song for free.

How about this:

Instead of being a jerk to this kid, you just do as he was askin and just friggin vote!

No need to be a dick about it
Thank you for voting!
donald.keller
Posts: 3,709
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1/10/2014 3:52:39 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 1/10/2014 3:34:03 PM, TheHitchslap wrote:
At 1/10/2014 3:13:07 PM, donald.keller wrote:
How about this... When you write the lyrics and rhythm, and have your friends come together and practice for hours a day to record the instruments and vocals, you can talk about having the song for free.

How about this:

Instead of being a jerk to this kid, you just do as he was askin and just friggin vote!

No need to be a dick about it

After your discussion with Classicrobert in the Wealth Inequality Gap thread, you aren't in a position to talk about being nice to people. When he posts it on a forum (instead of the Unvoted Debate thread), I'm going to give my opinion.
-- Don't forget to submit your unvoted debates to the Voter's Union --

OFFICIAL DK/TUF 2016 Platform: http://www.debate.org...

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#SaveThePresidency
#SaveTheSite

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TheHitchslap
Posts: 1,231
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1/10/2014 9:07:04 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 1/10/2014 3:52:39 PM, donald.keller wrote:
At 1/10/2014 3:34:03 PM, TheHitchslap wrote:
At 1/10/2014 3:13:07 PM, donald.keller wrote:
How about this... When you write the lyrics and rhythm, and have your friends come together and practice for hours a day to record the instruments and vocals, you can talk about having the song for free.

How about this:

Instead of being a jerk to this kid, you just do as he was askin and just friggin vote!

No need to be a dick about it

After your discussion with Classicrobert in the Wealth Inequality Gap thread, you aren't in a position to talk about being nice to people. When he posts it on a forum (instead of the Unvoted Debate thread), I'm going to give my opinion.

First of all, ClassicRob irritated me with his factually wrong information, and when I called him out on it and asked him to debate, he said "no"
so, I was rude because of him violating the DDO Code.
Second of all, ClassicRob has been on here long enough to know this, Garret (to the best of my knowledge) does not. He was polite, respectful, and deserves the same. I disagreed with bobbert to which a flame war ensued (which sometimes happens) context is important. Garret, please post this in the unvoted next time alright? Perhaps you should try Donald, and finally,

You claim it's just your opinion, but mine is somehow negated because you simply say so? PFFT. Get your head out of your @$$ boy. Even worse, you viciously attacked him because of his opinion too.

In my opinion, you sir are a dick. Least I can admit to being an @$$, your denial is typical though. LOL
Thank you for voting!
xXCryptoXx
Posts: 5,000
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1/10/2014 9:30:03 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Hitchslap, that was one hell of an overreaction.

Honestly, Donald wasn't being a dick at all. He simply expressed his opinion via real life example. I didn't detect any maliciousness in his post.
Nolite Timere
donald.keller
Posts: 3,709
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1/10/2014 9:36:56 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 1/10/2014 9:07:04 PM, TheHitchslap wrote:
At 1/10/2014 3:52:39 PM, donald.keller wrote:
At 1/10/2014 3:34:03 PM, TheHitchslap wrote:
At 1/10/2014 3:13:07 PM, donald.keller wrote:
How about this... When you write the lyrics and rhythm, and have your friends come together and practice for hours a day to record the instruments and vocals, you can talk about having the song for free.

How about this:

Instead of being a jerk to this kid, you just do as he was askin and just friggin vote!

No need to be a dick about it

After your discussion with Classicrobert in the Wealth Inequality Gap thread, you aren't in a position to talk about being nice to people. When he posts it on a forum (instead of the Unvoted Debate thread), I'm going to give my opinion.


First of all, ClassicRob irritated me with his factually wrong information, and when I called him out on it and asked him to debate, he said "no"
so, I was rude because of him violating the DDO Code.
Second of all, ClassicRob has been on here long enough to know this, Garret (to the best of my knowledge) does not. He was polite, respectful, and deserves the same. I disagreed with bobbert to which a flame war ensued (which sometimes happens) context is important. Garret, please post this in the unvoted next time alright? Perhaps you should try Donald, and finally,

You claim it's just your opinion, but mine is somehow negated because you simply say so? PFFT. Get your head out of your @$$ boy. Even worse, you viciously attacked him because of his opinion too.

In my opinion, you sir are a dick. Least I can admit to being an @$$, your denial is typical though. LOL

I was about say what Crypto had said. What I said, possibly not nice, but definitely not that mean. Hardly a "dick" move. Coming in here and calling me a dick, and personally attacking me like this is a "dick" move.

You are not in the position to act righteous. I gave a not-mean opinion, and you came in calling names. Hypocritical, by every definition.
-- Don't forget to submit your unvoted debates to the Voter's Union --

OFFICIAL DK/TUF 2016 Platform: http://www.debate.org...

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#SaveThePresidency
#SaveTheSite

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TheHitchslap
Posts: 1,231
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1/10/2014 9:40:06 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 1/10/2014 9:30:03 PM, xXCryptoXx wrote:
Hitchslap, that was one hell of an overreaction.

Honestly, Donald wasn't being a dick at all. He simply expressed his opinion via real life example. I didn't detect any maliciousness in his post.

Really? Then why did he state " [then] you can talk about having the song for free."??

That was clearly intended to be malicious; he wanted to make OP know he thought OP had no idea what he was talking about, that's malice and callous to me, is it not to you? He's negating OP's right to an opinion.
Thank you for voting!
TheHitchslap
Posts: 1,231
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1/10/2014 9:43:45 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 1/10/2014 9:36:56 PM, donald.keller wrote:
At 1/10/2014 9:07:04 PM, TheHitchslap wrote:
At 1/10/2014 3:52:39 PM, donald.keller wrote:
At 1/10/2014 3:34:03 PM, TheHitchslap wrote:
At 1/10/2014 3:13:07 PM, donald.keller wrote:
How about this... When you write the lyrics and rhythm, and have your friends come together and practice for hours a day to record the instruments and vocals, you can talk about having the song for free.

How about this:

Instead of being a jerk to this kid, you just do as he was askin and just friggin vote!

No need to be a dick about it

After your discussion with Classicrobert in the Wealth Inequality Gap thread, you aren't in a position to talk about being nice to people. When he posts it on a forum (instead of the Unvoted Debate thread), I'm going to give my opinion.


First of all, ClassicRob irritated me with his factually wrong information, and when I called him out on it and asked him to debate, he said "no"
so, I was rude because of him violating the DDO Code.
Second of all, ClassicRob has been on here long enough to know this, Garret (to the best of my knowledge) does not. He was polite, respectful, and deserves the same. I disagreed with bobbert to which a flame war ensued (which sometimes happens) context is important. Garret, please post this in the unvoted next time alright? Perhaps you should try Donald, and finally,

You claim it's just your opinion, but mine is somehow negated because you simply say so? PFFT. Get your head out of your @$$ boy. Even worse, you viciously attacked him because of his opinion too.

In my opinion, you sir are a dick. Least I can admit to being an @$$, your denial is typical though. LOL

I was about say what Crypto had said. What I said, possibly not nice, but definitely not that mean. Hardly a "dick" move. Coming in here and calling me a dick, and personally attacking me like this is a "dick" move.

(I replied to crypto)
and 2) I attacked you for being a jerk and telling OP that he essentially doesn't have a right to his opinion by insinuating he didn't know what he was talking about: that's insulting if I were in his shoes. It's called empathy, perhaps you ought to try it sometime.

You are not in the position to act righteous. I gave a not-mean opinion, and you came in calling names. Hypocritical, by every definition.

Appeal to hypocrisy: I very much might be acting like a hypocrite, but that does not mean I'm not right as a result. Dick.
and me and Robert have had problems for some time now, this has been building up for quite sometime, perhaps you ought to weight in on something you actually know a little bit about. BUT I realize you have an opinion, and like @$$holes everyone has one, and I really don't mind if you think I'm a dick. I just won't tell you you're not entitled to it, that's the difference between you and me and where my righteousness comes in: you're clearly a high-minded @$$ in needs of being put in his place.

Good day.
Thank you for voting!
Ore_Ele
Posts: 25,980
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1/10/2014 9:43:59 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 1/10/2014 3:13:07 PM, donald.keller wrote:
How about this... When you write the lyrics and rhythm, and have your friends come together and practice for hours a day to record the instruments and vocals, you can talk about having the song for free.
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
donald.keller
Posts: 3,709
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1/10/2014 9:46:11 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 1/10/2014 9:43:45 PM, TheHitchslap wrote:
At 1/10/2014 9:36:56 PM, donald.keller wrote:
At 1/10/2014 9:07:04 PM, TheHitchslap wrote:
At 1/10/2014 3:52:39 PM, donald.keller wrote:
At 1/10/2014 3:34:03 PM, TheHitchslap wrote:
At 1/10/2014 3:13:07 PM, donald.keller wrote:
How about this... When you write the lyrics and rhythm, and have your friends come together and practice for hours a day to record the instruments and vocals, you can talk about having the song for free.

How about this:

Instead of being a jerk to this kid, you just do as he was askin and just friggin vote!

No need to be a dick about it

After your discussion with Classicrobert in the Wealth Inequality Gap thread, you aren't in a position to talk about being nice to people. When he posts it on a forum (instead of the Unvoted Debate thread), I'm going to give my opinion.


First of all, ClassicRob irritated me with his factually wrong information, and when I called him out on it and asked him to debate, he said "no"
so, I was rude because of him violating the DDO Code.
Second of all, ClassicRob has been on here long enough to know this, Garret (to the best of my knowledge) does not. He was polite, respectful, and deserves the same. I disagreed with bobbert to which a flame war ensued (which sometimes happens) context is important. Garret, please post this in the unvoted next time alright? Perhaps you should try Donald, and finally,

You claim it's just your opinion, but mine is somehow negated because you simply say so? PFFT. Get your head out of your @$$ boy. Even worse, you viciously attacked him because of his opinion too.

In my opinion, you sir are a dick. Least I can admit to being an @$$, your denial is typical though. LOL

I was about say what Crypto had said. What I said, possibly not nice, but definitely not that mean. Hardly a "dick" move. Coming in here and calling me a dick, and personally attacking me like this is a "dick" move.

(I replied to crypto)
and 2) I attacked you for being a jerk and telling OP that he essentially doesn't have a right to his opinion by insinuating he didn't know what he was talking about: that's insulting if I were in his shoes. It's called empathy, perhaps you ought to try it sometime.

You are not in the position to act righteous. I gave a not-mean opinion, and you came in calling names. Hypocritical, by every definition.

Appeal to hypocrisy: I very much might be acting like a hypocrite, but that does not mean I'm not right as a result. Dick.
and me and Robert have had problems for some time now, this has been building up for quite sometime, perhaps you ought to weight in on something you actually know a little bit about. BUT I realize you have an opinion, and like @$$holes everyone has one, and I really don't mind if you think I'm a dick. I just won't tell you you're not entitled to it, that's the difference between you and me and where my righteousness comes in: you're clearly a high-minded @$$ in needs of being put in his place.

Good day.

I read your reply. I find nothing offensive about what I said. And apparently, neither does anyone else. I would be mean if I had said "then you can have the song for free, you stealing dick." But I didn't... Only you have been name calling and rude here.
-- Don't forget to submit your unvoted debates to the Voter's Union --

OFFICIAL DK/TUF 2016 Platform: http://www.debate.org...

My Facebook Page: https://www.facebook.com...
#SaveThePresidency
#SaveTheSite

-- DK/TUF 2016 --
TheHitchslap
Posts: 1,231
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1/10/2014 9:49:03 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 1/10/2014 9:46:11 PM, donald.keller wrote:
At 1/10/2014 9:43:45 PM, TheHitchslap wrote:
At 1/10/2014 9:36:56 PM, donald.keller wrote:
At 1/10/2014 9:07:04 PM, TheHitchslap wrote:
At 1/10/2014 3:52:39 PM, donald.keller wrote:
At 1/10/2014 3:34:03 PM, TheHitchslap wrote:
At 1/10/2014 3:13:07 PM, donald.keller wrote:
How about this... When you write the lyrics and rhythm, and have your friends come together and practice for hours a day to record the instruments and vocals, you can talk about having the song for free.

How about this:

Instead of being a jerk to this kid, you just do as he was askin and just friggin vote!

No need to be a dick about it

After your discussion with Classicrobert in the Wealth Inequality Gap thread, you aren't in a position to talk about being nice to people. When he posts it on a forum (instead of the Unvoted Debate thread), I'm going to give my opinion.


First of all, ClassicRob irritated me with his factually wrong information, and when I called him out on it and asked him to debate, he said "no"
so, I was rude because of him violating the DDO Code.
Second of all, ClassicRob has been on here long enough to know this, Garret (to the best of my knowledge) does not. He was polite, respectful, and deserves the same. I disagreed with bobbert to which a flame war ensued (which sometimes happens) context is important. Garret, please post this in the unvoted next time alright? Perhaps you should try Donald, and finally,

You claim it's just your opinion, but mine is somehow negated because you simply say so? PFFT. Get your head out of your @$$ boy. Even worse, you viciously attacked him because of his opinion too.

In my opinion, you sir are a dick. Least I can admit to being an @$$, your denial is typical though. LOL

I was about say what Crypto had said. What I said, possibly not nice, but definitely not that mean. Hardly a "dick" move. Coming in here and calling me a dick, and personally attacking me like this is a "dick" move.

(I replied to crypto)
and 2) I attacked you for being a jerk and telling OP that he essentially doesn't have a right to his opinion by insinuating he didn't know what he was talking about: that's insulting if I were in his shoes. It's called empathy, perhaps you ought to try it sometime.

You are not in the position to act righteous. I gave a not-mean opinion, and you came in calling names. Hypocritical, by every definition.

Appeal to hypocrisy: I very much might be acting like a hypocrite, but that does not mean I'm not right as a result. Dick.
and me and Robert have had problems for some time now, this has been building up for quite sometime, perhaps you ought to weight in on something you actually know a little bit about. BUT I realize you have an opinion, and like @$$holes everyone has one, and I really don't mind if you think I'm a dick. I just won't tell you you're not entitled to it, that's the difference between you and me and where my righteousness comes in: you're clearly a high-minded @$$ in needs of being put in his place.

Good day.

I read your reply. I find nothing offensive about what I said.
Confirmation bias .. selection bias, that' and your selfish, so why would you do that to yourself anyways? This means nothing.

And apparently, neither does anyone else.
LOL one other persons opinion =/= anyone else, talk about a hasty conclusion
I would be mean if I had said "then you can have the song for free, you stealing dick." But I didn't... Only you have been name calling and rude here.

Nice opinion, cept you never denied telling OP he had no right to his opinion now did ya? Did I hear a concession?
Thank you for voting!
donald.keller
Posts: 3,709
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1/10/2014 10:00:24 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 1/10/2014 9:49:03 PM, TheHitchslap wrote:
At 1/10/2014 9:46:11 PM, donald.keller wrote:
At 1/10/2014 9:43:45 PM, TheHitchslap wrote:
At 1/10/2014 9:36:56 PM, donald.keller wrote:
At 1/10/2014 9:07:04 PM, TheHitchslap wrote:
At 1/10/2014 3:52:39 PM, donald.keller wrote:
At 1/10/2014 3:34:03 PM, TheHitchslap wrote:
At 1/10/2014 3:13:07 PM, donald.keller wrote:
How about this... When you write the lyrics and rhythm, and have your friends come together and practice for hours a day to record the instruments and vocals, you can talk about having the song for free.

How about this:

Instead of being a jerk to this kid, you just do as he was askin and just friggin vote!

No need to be a dick about it

After your discussion with Classicrobert in the Wealth Inequality Gap thread, you aren't in a position to talk about being nice to people. When he posts it on a forum (instead of the Unvoted Debate thread), I'm going to give my opinion.


First of all, ClassicRob irritated me with his factually wrong information, and when I called him out on it and asked him to debate, he said "no"
so, I was rude because of him violating the DDO Code.
Second of all, ClassicRob has been on here long enough to know this, Garret (to the best of my knowledge) does not. He was polite, respectful, and deserves the same. I disagreed with bobbert to which a flame war ensued (which sometimes happens) context is important. Garret, please post this in the unvoted next time alright? Perhaps you should try Donald, and finally,

You claim it's just your opinion, but mine is somehow negated because you simply say so? PFFT. Get your head out of your @$$ boy. Even worse, you viciously attacked him because of his opinion too.

In my opinion, you sir are a dick. Least I can admit to being an @$$, your denial is typical though. LOL

I was about say what Crypto had said. What I said, possibly not nice, but definitely not that mean. Hardly a "dick" move. Coming in here and calling me a dick, and personally attacking me like this is a "dick" move.

(I replied to crypto)
and 2) I attacked you for being a jerk and telling OP that he essentially doesn't have a right to his opinion by insinuating he didn't know what he was talking about: that's insulting if I were in his shoes. It's called empathy, perhaps you ought to try it sometime.

You are not in the position to act righteous. I gave a not-mean opinion, and you came in calling names. Hypocritical, by every definition.

Appeal to hypocrisy: I very much might be acting like a hypocrite, but that does not mean I'm not right as a result. Dick.
and me and Robert have had problems for some time now, this has been building up for quite sometime, perhaps you ought to weight in on something you actually know a little bit about. BUT I realize you have an opinion, and like @$$holes everyone has one, and I really don't mind if you think I'm a dick. I just won't tell you you're not entitled to it, that's the difference between you and me and where my righteousness comes in: you're clearly a high-minded @$$ in needs of being put in his place.

Good day.

I read your reply. I find nothing offensive about what I said.
Confirmation bias .. selection bias, that' and your selfish, so why would you do that to yourself anyways? This means nothing.

Confirmation Bias? Do you know what that means? I can't have confirmation bias about my own writing. A confirmation bias is when you ignore, or think negatively of information that doesn't agree with you. Hardly counts if you are the one saying it. Such an abuse of the phrase.


And apparently, neither does anyone else.
LOL one other persons opinion =/= anyone else, talk about a hasty conclusion

One? You mean two. Ore copy/pasted what I'd said, obviously didn't think it was rude and unwarranted.. Two vs one. If this were a voted on debate, I'd win.

I would be mean if I had said "then you can have the song for free, you stealing dick." But I didn't... Only you have been name calling and rude here.

Nice opinion, cept you never denied telling OP he had no right to his opinion now did ya? Did I hear a concession?

I what? Copy/paste where such a thing was said. I'm curious. When was this 'you can't have an opinion' thing I said? He can reply all he wants.
-- Don't forget to submit your unvoted debates to the Voter's Union --

OFFICIAL DK/TUF 2016 Platform: http://www.debate.org...

My Facebook Page: https://www.facebook.com...
#SaveThePresidency
#SaveTheSite

-- DK/TUF 2016 --
Objectivity
Posts: 1,073
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1/10/2014 10:10:10 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 1/10/2014 9:49:03 PM, TheHitchslap wrote:
At 1/10/2014 9:46:11 PM, donald.keller wrote:
At 1/10/2014 9:43:45 PM, TheHitchslap wrote:
At 1/10/2014 9:36:56 PM, donald.keller wrote:
At 1/10/2014 9:07:04 PM, TheHitchslap wrote:
At 1/10/2014 3:52:39 PM, donald.keller wrote:
At 1/10/2014 3:34:03 PM, TheHitchslap wrote:
At 1/10/2014 3:13:07 PM, donald.keller wrote:
How about this... When you write the lyrics and rhythm, and have your friends come together and practice for hours a day to record the instruments and vocals, you can talk about having the song for free.

How about this:

Instead of being a jerk to this kid, you just do as he was askin and just friggin vote!

No need to be a dick about it

After your discussion with Classicrobert in the Wealth Inequality Gap thread, you aren't in a position to talk about being nice to people. When he posts it on a forum (instead of the Unvoted Debate thread), I'm going to give my opinion.


First of all, ClassicRob irritated me with his factually wrong information, and when I called him out on it and asked him to debate, he said "no"
so, I was rude because of him violating the DDO Code.
Second of all, ClassicRob has been on here long enough to know this, Garret (to the best of my knowledge) does not. He was polite, respectful, and deserves the same. I disagreed with bobbert to which a flame war ensued (which sometimes happens) context is important. Garret, please post this in the unvoted next time alright? Perhaps you should try Donald, and finally,

You claim it's just your opinion, but mine is somehow negated because you simply say so? PFFT. Get your head out of your @$$ boy. Even worse, you viciously attacked him because of his opinion too.

In my opinion, you sir are a dick. Least I can admit to being an @$$, your denial is typical though. LOL

I was about say what Crypto had said. What I said, possibly not nice, but definitely not that mean. Hardly a "dick" move. Coming in here and calling me a dick, and personally attacking me like this is a "dick" move.

(I replied to crypto)
and 2) I attacked you for being a jerk and telling OP that he essentially doesn't have a right to his opinion by insinuating he didn't know what he was talking about: that's insulting if I were in his shoes. It's called empathy, perhaps you ought to try it sometime.

You are not in the position to act righteous. I gave a not-mean opinion, and you came in calling names. Hypocritical, by every definition.

Appeal to hypocrisy: I very much might be acting like a hypocrite, but that does not mean I'm not right as a result. Dick.
and me and Robert have had problems for some time now, this has been building up for quite sometime, perhaps you ought to weight in on something you actually know a little bit about. BUT I realize you have an opinion, and like @$$holes everyone has one, and I really don't mind if you think I'm a dick. I just won't tell you you're not entitled to it, that's the difference between you and me and where my righteousness comes in: you're clearly a high-minded @$$ in needs of being put in his place.

Good day.

I read your reply. I find nothing offensive about what I said.
Confirmation bias .. selection bias

Argument from Fallacy, i.e Fallacy Fallacy

, that' and your selfish, so why would you do that to yourself anyways? This means nothing.

Ad hominem

I commonly observe the forums, you should seriously consider toning down your use of logical fallacies, there is a such thing as the fallacy fallacy, y'know. If you are going to point out a logical fallacy or informal fallacy, it would be very useful to the audience (assuming you wish to sway them to your side and aren't just being a d!ck for the sake of being a d!ck) to add an explanation as to why you think someone used an informal or logical fallacy. Just my two cents

Cheers!


And apparently, neither does anyone else.
LOL one other persons opinion =/= anyone else, talk about a hasty conclusion
I would be mean if I had said "then you can have the song for free, you stealing dick." But I didn't... Only you have been name calling and rude here.

Nice opinion, cept you never denied telling OP he had no right to his opinion now did ya? Did I hear a concession?
Objectivity
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1/10/2014 10:14:44 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 1/10/2014 2:12:49 PM, GarretKadeDupre wrote:
http://www.debate.org...

It's close to being de facto legal anyways: it's generally unenforceable.

Music is art and a form of service-entertainment, therefore IMO allowing people to freely copying music/'pirating' it is the same as going to a movie theater and filming the film as you watch it and then distributing it, or tracing a valuable piece of artwork and then selling it as your own. It is immoral, it is someone else's idea and hard work, it is theft.
xXCryptoXx
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1/10/2014 10:16:19 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 1/10/2014 9:40:06 PM, TheHitchslap wrote:
At 1/10/2014 9:30:03 PM, xXCryptoXx wrote:
Hitchslap, that was one hell of an overreaction.

Honestly, Donald wasn't being a dick at all. He simply expressed his opinion via real life example. I didn't detect any maliciousness in his post.

Really? Then why did he state " [then] you can talk about having the song for free."??

Donald was putting Garret in his real world example in irser to emphasize his position against legalized music piracy. He was basically saying to Garret, "How would you feel if you worked really hard on a musical piece and then you were looking to sell it to others only to see people downloading off the internet for free?"

Nothing malicious.

That was clearly intended to be malicious; he wanted to make OP know he thought OP had no idea what he was talking about, that's malice and callous to me, is it not to you? He's negating OP's right to an opinion.

So if I say Hitler was a good man, creationism is true, women are inferior to men, and meth is healthy for your body, then you have no right to correct all these things because it might make me feel like I don't know what I'm talking about? Because it would negate the right to my own opinion?

That's not how it works here.
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Khaos_Mage
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1/10/2014 11:21:16 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 1/10/2014 10:14:44 PM, Objectivity wrote:
At 1/10/2014 2:12:49 PM, GarretKadeDupre wrote:
http://www.debate.org...

It's close to being de facto legal anyways: it's generally unenforceable.

Music is art and a form of service-entertainment, therefore IMO allowing people to freely copying music/'pirating' it is the same as going to a movie theater and filming the film as you watch it and then distributing it, or tracing a valuable piece of artwork and then selling it as your own. It is immoral, it is someone else's idea and hard work, it is theft.

What if you're not selling it?
My work here is, finally, done.
Khaos_Mage
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1/10/2014 11:24:06 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Hitchslap, you cannot level a complaint to Donald based on "Garret just wanted you to vote", when he did not merely post the debate, but also tried to sway opinion. That is undue influence on the debate, regardless of whether he knew of the unvoted forum, if he is asking for votes, he should ask for them, not influence them. (Did he make that comment about the near legality in his debate?)
My work here is, finally, done.
Khaos_Mage
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1/10/2014 11:25:11 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 1/10/2014 9:43:59 PM, Ore_Ele wrote:
At 1/10/2014 3:13:07 PM, donald.keller wrote:
How about this... When you write the lyrics and rhythm, and have your friends come together and practice for hours a day to record the instruments and vocals, and find a way to pay for the recordings and living expenses, you can talk about having the song for free.
My work here is, finally, done.
Objectivity
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1/10/2014 11:48:41 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 1/10/2014 11:21:16 PM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
At 1/10/2014 10:14:44 PM, Objectivity wrote:
At 1/10/2014 2:12:49 PM, GarretKadeDupre wrote:
http://www.debate.org...

It's close to being de facto legal anyways: it's generally unenforceable.

Music is art and a form of service-entertainment, therefore IMO allowing people to freely copying music/'pirating' it is the same as going to a movie theater and filming the film as you watch it and then distributing it, or tracing a valuable piece of artwork and then selling it as your own. It is immoral, it is someone else's idea and hard work, it is theft.

What if you're not selling it?

It's still your idea or your art, no one has a right to distribute it willy nilly for their own uses without your consent.
GarretKadeDupre
Posts: 2,023
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1/10/2014 11:52:40 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 1/10/2014 10:14:44 PM, Objectivity wrote:
At 1/10/2014 2:12:49 PM, GarretKadeDupre wrote:
http://www.debate.org...

It's close to being de facto legal anyways: it's generally unenforceable.

Music is art and a form of service-entertainment, therefore IMO allowing people to freely copying music/'pirating' it is the same as going to a movie theater and filming the film as you watch it and then distributing it, or tracing a valuable piece of artwork and then selling it as your own. It is immoral, it is someone else's idea and hard work, it is theft.

The morality doesn't matter, this is a legal issue.

My main point is that music piracy is unenforceable, and since unenforceable laws are a bad idea, music piracy laws are too.

it is the same as going to a movie theater and filming the film as you watch it and then distributing it
No, because people MUST pay to see a movie in theatres. It's often impossible to see a movie this early without paying. And people love to see movies in theatres.

tracing a valuable piece of artwork and then selling it as your own
Not an argument against legalizing music piracy, only against claiming it is your own and selling it. That is actually enforceable, because it's not so difficult to shut down since the FBI can follow the money trail.
I'm talking about free music piracy.
Proof that people witnessed living dinosaurs:
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Khaos_Mage
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1/11/2014 12:06:56 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 1/10/2014 11:48:41 PM, Objectivity wrote:
At 1/10/2014 11:21:16 PM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
At 1/10/2014 10:14:44 PM, Objectivity wrote:
At 1/10/2014 2:12:49 PM, GarretKadeDupre wrote:
http://www.debate.org...

It's close to being de facto legal anyways: it's generally unenforceable.

Music is art and a form of service-entertainment, therefore IMO allowing people to freely copying music/'pirating' it is the same as going to a movie theater and filming the film as you watch it and then distributing it, or tracing a valuable piece of artwork and then selling it as your own. It is immoral, it is someone else's idea and hard work, it is theft.

What if you're not selling it?

It's still your idea or your art, no one has a right to distribute it willy nilly for their own uses without your consent.

So, I buy a CD of your music, which allows me access to your music. I own your music.
Do my friends have to pay you royalties if I play your music at my home while we party?
If they borrow my CD to burn it, is that piracy?
Expand.
Does someone online have to pay royalties if they have access to my playlist?
My work here is, finally, done.
drhead
Posts: 1,475
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1/11/2014 12:56:36 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 1/10/2014 10:14:44 PM, Objectivity wrote:
At 1/10/2014 2:12:49 PM, GarretKadeDupre wrote:
http://www.debate.org...

It's close to being de facto legal anyways: it's generally unenforceable.

Music is art and a form of service-entertainment, therefore IMO allowing people to freely copying music/'pirating' it is the same as going to a movie theater and filming the film as you watch it and then distributing it, or tracing a valuable piece of artwork and then selling it as your own. It is immoral, it is someone else's idea and hard work, it is theft.

1. People still go to theaters just for the experience of being in a theater. That much can't be pirated. If they are losing money because people would rather watch the movie at home on their computer, then their first priority should be releasing their movie in that format in a reasonable timespan (i.e. not waiting several months to put a movie out on Netflix), and they should attempt this before going on a witch hunt.
2. You make no distinction between selling and giving away works. You also seem to make no distinction for blatant plagiarism. Clearly these things are not equal.
3. You are improperly using the word "theft" when theft generally implies that something was actually taken from the artist. Nothing was taken. The only thing that happened was that something was not given.
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donald.keller
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1/11/2014 2:12:43 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 1/10/2014 11:25:11 PM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
At 1/10/2014 9:43:59 PM, Ore_Ele wrote:
At 1/10/2014 3:13:07 PM, donald.keller wrote:
How about this... When you write the lyrics and rhythm, and have your friends come together and practice for hours a day to record the instruments and vocals, and find a way to pay for the recordings and living expenses, you can talk about having the song for free.

Nice fix.
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GarretKadeDupre
Posts: 2,023
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1/11/2014 3:32:10 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 1/11/2014 12:56:36 AM, drhead wrote:
At 1/10/2014 10:14:44 PM, Objectivity wrote:
At 1/10/2014 2:12:49 PM, GarretKadeDupre wrote:
http://www.debate.org...

It's close to being de facto legal anyways: it's generally unenforceable.

Music is art and a form of service-entertainment, therefore IMO allowing people to freely copying music/'pirating' it is the same as going to a movie theater and filming the film as you watch it and then distributing it, or tracing a valuable piece of artwork and then selling it as your own. It is immoral, it is someone else's idea and hard work, it is theft.

1. People still go to theaters just for the experience of being in a theater. That much can't be pirated. If they are losing money because people would rather watch the movie at home on their computer, then their first priority should be releasing their movie in that format in a reasonable timespan (i.e. not waiting several months to put a movie out on Netflix), and they should attempt this before going on a witch hunt.
2. You make no distinction between selling and giving away works. You also seem to make no distinction for blatant plagiarism. Clearly these things are not equal.
3. You are improperly using the word "theft" when theft generally implies that something was actually taken from the artist. Nothing was taken. The only thing that happened was that something was not given.

I had already posted these same points a few posts up but you said it way better than I did. Lol.
Proof that people witnessed living dinosaurs:
http://www.debate.org...
wrichcirw
Posts: 11,196
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1/11/2014 3:44:35 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 1/10/2014 11:21:16 PM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
At 1/10/2014 10:14:44 PM, Objectivity wrote:
At 1/10/2014 2:12:49 PM, GarretKadeDupre wrote:
http://www.debate.org...

It's close to being de facto legal anyways: it's generally unenforceable.

Music is art and a form of service-entertainment, therefore IMO allowing people to freely copying music/'pirating' it is the same as going to a movie theater and filming the film as you watch it and then distributing it, or tracing a valuable piece of artwork and then selling it as your own. It is immoral, it is someone else's idea and hard work, it is theft.

What if you're not selling it?

You cannot pirate what is free.
At 8/9/2013 9:41:24 AM, wrichcirw wrote:
If you are civil with me, I will be civil to you. If you decide to bring unreasonable animosity to bear in a reasonable discussion, then what would you expect other than to get flustered?
Khaos_Mage
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1/11/2014 4:11:41 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 1/11/2014 3:44:35 PM, wrichcirw wrote:
At 1/10/2014 11:21:16 PM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
At 1/10/2014 10:14:44 PM, Objectivity wrote:
At 1/10/2014 2:12:49 PM, GarretKadeDupre wrote:
http://www.debate.org...

It's close to being de facto legal anyways: it's generally unenforceable.

Music is art and a form of service-entertainment, therefore IMO allowing people to freely copying music/'pirating' it is the same as going to a movie theater and filming the film as you watch it and then distributing it, or tracing a valuable piece of artwork and then selling it as your own. It is immoral, it is someone else's idea and hard work, it is theft.

What if you're not selling it?

You cannot pirate what is free.

I'm asking if I have the right to disseminate the media, even though I am not charging.
I buy a CD, it is mine. Obviously, I have the right to listen to it at will.
Can I then post it on YouTube or allow others at Napster to enjoy, even though I collect nothing? Is that my right, as a consumer?

Further, it is my right to sell my "share" of the music (the CD) for a few bucks.
However, is it legal for me to do so, after making a copy of the music for myself? (I suppose that is benefiting from the sale, though)
My work here is, finally, done.
wrichcirw
Posts: 11,196
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1/12/2014 1:48:07 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 1/11/2014 4:11:41 PM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
At 1/11/2014 3:44:35 PM, wrichcirw wrote:
At 1/10/2014 11:21:16 PM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
At 1/10/2014 10:14:44 PM, Objectivity wrote:
At 1/10/2014 2:12:49 PM, GarretKadeDupre wrote:
http://www.debate.org...

It's close to being de facto legal anyways: it's generally unenforceable.

Music is art and a form of service-entertainment, therefore IMO allowing people to freely copying music/'pirating' it is the same as going to a movie theater and filming the film as you watch it and then distributing it, or tracing a valuable piece of artwork and then selling it as your own. It is immoral, it is someone else's idea and hard work, it is theft.

What if you're not selling it?

You cannot pirate what is free.

I'm asking if I have the right to disseminate the media, even though I am not charging.
I buy a CD, it is mine. Obviously, I have the right to listen to it at will.
Can I then post it on YouTube or allow others at Napster to enjoy, even though I collect nothing? Is that my right, as a consumer?

lol, this is much harder for me to answer than I think it should be. =)

Obviously you can play it at parties and what not. I think the issue becomes whether or not you are distributing copies of the art with the purpose of precluding what should have been legitimate sales from other interested customers.

For example, I think this video is amazing (video). It's obviously ripped straight off the media. But, would that actually stop people from buying the Inception DVD? No, I think it would have the opposite effect...so it's still out there, years later.

The key phrase seems to be "fair use":
http://www.copyright.gov...

Given sites like pirate bay have a following and a brand, I could see how they could be seen as profiting off their operations, so they get hit often.

I think laws like this are intentionally nebulous so that people just don't bother trying to game the system and just buy the damned thing.

Further, it is my right to sell my "share" of the music (the CD) for a few bucks.
However, is it legal for me to do so, after making a copy of the music for myself? (I suppose that is benefiting from the sale, though)

Agree here, although if you rented the CD/movie and did the same thing, would that be illegal? I doubt it. As long as you didn't give out copies to other people, you should be fine.
At 8/9/2013 9:41:24 AM, wrichcirw wrote:
If you are civil with me, I will be civil to you. If you decide to bring unreasonable animosity to bear in a reasonable discussion, then what would you expect other than to get flustered?
Objectivity
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1/13/2014 9:10:45 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 1/10/2014 11:52:40 PM, GarretKadeDupre wrote:
At 1/10/2014 10:14:44 PM, Objectivity wrote:
At 1/10/2014 2:12:49 PM, GarretKadeDupre wrote:
http://www.debate.org...

It's close to being de facto legal anyways: it's generally unenforceable.

Music is art and a form of service-entertainment, therefore IMO allowing people to freely copying music/'pirating' it is the same as going to a movie theater and filming the film as you watch it and then distributing it, or tracing a valuable piece of artwork and then selling it as your own. It is immoral, it is someone else's idea and hard work, it is theft.

The morality doesn't matter, this is a legal issue.

Laws are commonly derived from morality though, no?

My main point is that music piracy is unenforceable, and since unenforceable laws are a bad idea, music piracy laws are too.

The government can still take a moral stance on something and be against it, I could argue that it's unenforceable to plot against your government in secret since it's in secret, but should we be able to do it anyways?

it is the same as going to a movie theater and filming the film as you watch it and then distributing it
No, because people MUST pay to see a movie in theatres. It's often impossible to see a movie this early without paying. And people love to see movies in theatres.

tracing a valuable piece of artwork and then selling it as your own
Not an argument against legalizing music piracy, only against claiming it is your own and selling it. That is actually enforceable, because it's not so difficult to shut down since the FBI can follow the money trail.
I'm talking about free music piracy.