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School shooting to close for Lannan... almost

lannan13
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1/17/2014 5:37:57 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Most of you know me as the guy that is super Conservative and Pro-NRA, but yesterday an attempted school shooting and bombing occured in Topeka. In a school that is a few miles from mine. Why is this concerning me? It's that some of the conspirators were people from my school! During the arrests the entire Topeka community went on lock-down. This scared the h3ll out of me. http://www.wibw.com...
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TheHitchslap
Posts: 1,231
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1/17/2014 6:03:20 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 1/17/2014 5:37:57 PM, lannan13 wrote:
Most of you know me as the guy that is super Conservative and Pro-NRA, but yesterday an attempted school shooting and bombing occured in Topeka. In a school that is a few miles from mine. Why is this concerning me? It's that some of the conspirators were people from my school! During the arrests the entire Topeka community went on lock-down. This scared the h3ll out of me. http://www.wibw.com...

Moral of the story: 'MERICA NEEDS MOAR GUNZ GIES!!!!
Thank you for voting!
Tophatdoc
Posts: 534
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1/17/2014 7:35:58 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 1/17/2014 5:37:57 PM, lannan13 wrote:
Most of you know me as the guy that is super Conservative and Pro-NRA, but yesterday an attempted school shooting and bombing occured in Topeka. In a school that is a few miles from mine. Why is this concerning me? It's that some of the conspirators were people from my school! During the arrests the entire Topeka community went on lock-down. This scared the h3ll out of me. http://www.wibw.com...

Will they be charged as adults or juveniles?

Interesting, a lock down is purely a token gesture at deceiving people that they are safer. In reality when a lock down happens more people are concentrated in the same vicinity. Therefore they become easier to kill. It never ceases to amaze me that logic is thrown out of the window for instinct in times of danger. For example, how does running from a threat eliminate a threat? It doesn't.
"Don't click on my profile. Don't send me friend requests. Don't read my debates. There are many interesting people on DDO. Find one of them. Go find someone exciting and loquacious. Go click on their profile. Go send them friend requests. Go read their debates. Leave me alone." -Tophatdoc
Juris_Naturalis
Posts: 273
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1/17/2014 9:29:31 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 1/17/2014 6:03:20 PM, TheHitchslap wrote:
At 1/17/2014 5:37:57 PM, lannan13 wrote:
Most of you know me as the guy that is super Conservative and Pro-NRA, but yesterday an attempted school shooting and bombing occured in Topeka. In a school that is a few miles from mine. Why is this concerning me? It's that some of the conspirators were people from my school! During the arrests the entire Topeka community went on lock-down. This scared the h3ll out of me. http://www.wibw.com...

Moral of the story: 'MERICA NEEDS MOAR GUNZ GIES!!!!

No, that doesn't apply here. Not when explosives are involved.
Juris_Naturalis
Posts: 273
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1/17/2014 9:30:42 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 1/17/2014 7:35:58 PM, Tophatdoc wrote:
At 1/17/2014 5:37:57 PM, lannan13 wrote:
Most of you know me as the guy that is super Conservative and Pro-NRA, but yesterday an attempted school shooting and bombing occured in Topeka. In a school that is a few miles from mine. Why is this concerning me? It's that some of the conspirators were people from my school! During the arrests the entire Topeka community went on lock-down. This scared the h3ll out of me. http://www.wibw.com...

Will they be charged as adults or juveniles?

Interesting, a lock down is purely a token gesture at deceiving people that they are safer. In reality when a lock down happens more people are concentrated in the same vicinity. Therefore they become easier to kill. It never ceases to amaze me that logic is thrown out of the window for instinct in times of danger. For example, how does running from a threat eliminate a threat? It doesn't.

I think it's more about "containing" a threat then keeping people safe. Theoretically, the safest thing would be get outta dodge, but the perp could get away as well.
Khaos_Mage
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1/17/2014 9:41:09 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 1/17/2014 5:37:57 PM, lannan13 wrote:
Most of you know me as the guy that is super Conservative and Pro-NRA, but yesterday an attempted school shooting and bombing occured in Topeka. In a school that is a few miles from mine. Why is this concerning me? It's that some of the conspirators were people from my school! During the arrests the entire Topeka community went on lock-down. This scared the h3ll out of me. http://www.wibw.com...

Ohhh, give us the 411 plOX.
What were these people like?
My work here is, finally, done.
Tophatdoc
Posts: 534
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1/17/2014 10:28:34 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 1/17/2014 9:30:42 PM, Juris_Naturalis wrote:

I think it's more about "containing" a threat then keeping people safe. Theoretically, the safest thing would be get outta dodge, but the perp could get away as well.

That is the purpose of the police locking down a building. But quite a number of people think by some miracle of logic they have become safer when a lock down happens. Which is not true. Now the threat might become more severe due to the threat being contained within a limited space.

In terms of escape, it depends on the scenario. It some cases escape may be best but in others to attempt to an escape results in death.
"Don't click on my profile. Don't send me friend requests. Don't read my debates. There are many interesting people on DDO. Find one of them. Go find someone exciting and loquacious. Go click on their profile. Go send them friend requests. Go read their debates. Leave me alone." -Tophatdoc
Juris_Naturalis
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1/17/2014 11:38:24 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 1/17/2014 10:28:34 PM, Tophatdoc wrote:
At 1/17/2014 9:30:42 PM, Juris_Naturalis wrote:

I think it's more about "containing" a threat then keeping people safe. Theoretically, the safest thing would be get outta dodge, but the perp could get away as well.

That is the purpose of the police locking down a building. But quite a number of people think by some miracle of logic they have become safer when a lock down happens. Which is not true. Now the threat might become more severe due to the threat being contained within a limited space.

In terms of escape, it depends on the scenario. It some cases escape may be best but in others to attempt to an escape results in death.

Well no 2 scenarios are the same, but honestly, I don't know who came up with the logic that a lock down means safety.
darkkermit
Posts: 11,204
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1/18/2014 8:10:26 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
How serious was the threat? There were numerous bombing threats at my school and I nvr took them that seriously. Our policy for a school bombing was to put everyone into the auditorium which was the most retarded idea ever. Great, now you've rounded them all into a confined area allowing to maximize causalities.
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Khaos_Mage
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1/18/2014 10:08:33 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 1/18/2014 8:10:26 AM, darkkermit wrote:
How serious was the threat? There were numerous bombing threats at my school and I nvr took them that seriously. Our policy for a school bombing was to put everyone into the auditorium which was the most retarded idea ever. Great, now you've rounded them all into a confined area allowing to maximize causalities.

The auditorium is also the first area swept by police, and, I assume, the easiest area to sweep and hardest to hide a bomb in (too public). It's not like there are lockers, drawers, etc. to hide a bomb in.
My work here is, finally, done.
drhead
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1/18/2014 11:04:31 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 1/17/2014 7:35:58 PM, Tophatdoc wrote:
At 1/17/2014 5:37:57 PM, lannan13 wrote:
Most of you know me as the guy that is super Conservative and Pro-NRA, but yesterday an attempted school shooting and bombing occured in Topeka. In a school that is a few miles from mine. Why is this concerning me? It's that some of the conspirators were people from my school! During the arrests the entire Topeka community went on lock-down. This scared the h3ll out of me. http://www.wibw.com...

Will they be charged as adults or juveniles?

Interesting, a lock down is purely a token gesture at deceiving people that they are safer. In reality when a lock down happens more people are concentrated in the same vicinity. Therefore they become easier to kill. It never ceases to amaze me that logic is thrown out of the window for instinct in times of danger. For example, how does running from a threat eliminate a threat? It doesn't.

You do realize that most schools have doors on the inside of the building that can be locked, right? (Most even have one for every classroom.) My school has us lock doors, turn the lights off in the room, and have everyone crouch out of the line of sight of the door, while obstructing the door with something like a filing cabinet if possible. If everyone was running around in the hallways or outside, they'd be much easier to kill. This isn't like some Hollywood movie where you can shoot a lock off of a door.
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Tophatdoc
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1/18/2014 11:25:57 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 1/18/2014 11:04:31 AM, drhead wrote:

You do realize that most schools have doors on the inside of the building that can be locked, right? (Most even have one for every classroom.) My school has us lock doors, turn the lights off in the room, and have everyone crouch out of the line of sight of the door, while obstructing the door with something like a filing cabinet if possible. If everyone was running around in the hallways or outside, they'd be much easier to kill. This isn't like some Hollywood movie where you can shoot a lock off of a door.

It doesn't matter if the doors can be locked. You can breach the door by shooting the handle off and then proceed inside. It depends on the firearm's power. A shotgun or a rifle can easily blow off a door handle. That is not Hollywood, it is reality. Anti-terrorists and SWAT units use this tactic often in training in case of urban threats. Or they can bash the door handle off a number of ways. Or bash the door window in with the butt of the gun. Then reach in and unlock the door. The file cabinet would make it more difficult to get in. It could stop the threat from trying to enter depending on the scenario.

But if this is something like Columbine the threat can be carrying grenades or a bomb. One only needs to find the vent to the room. Hurl a grenade or a bomb inside and instantly kill of everyone in the room depending on the magnitude of the weapon.

That is not true about the hallways. It is much more difficult to hit a target that is moving and room to move. Versus a target which limited in movement which would be a classroom with many desks. Also most classrooms(Primary & Secondary schools) only have one exit. That one exit enhances the kill-count by a large margin. A hallway has many exits. Therefore more escape points.
"Don't click on my profile. Don't send me friend requests. Don't read my debates. There are many interesting people on DDO. Find one of them. Go find someone exciting and loquacious. Go click on their profile. Go send them friend requests. Go read their debates. Leave me alone." -Tophatdoc
Citrakayah
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1/18/2014 7:56:24 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 1/18/2014 11:25:57 AM, Tophatdoc wrote:
At 1/18/2014 11:04:31 AM, drhead wrote:

You do realize that most schools have doors on the inside of the building that can be locked, right? (Most even have one for every classroom.) My school has us lock doors, turn the lights off in the room, and have everyone crouch out of the line of sight of the door, while obstructing the door with something like a filing cabinet if possible. If everyone was running around in the hallways or outside, they'd be much easier to kill. This isn't like some Hollywood movie where you can shoot a lock off of a door.

It doesn't matter if the doors can be locked. You can breach the door by shooting the handle off and then proceed inside. It depends on the firearm's power. A shotgun or a rifle can easily blow off a door handle. That is not Hollywood, it is reality. Anti-terrorists and SWAT units use this tactic often in training in case of urban threats. Or they can bash the door handle off a number of ways. Or bash the door window in with the butt of the gun. Then reach in and unlock the door. The file cabinet would make it more difficult to get in. It could stop the threat from trying to enter depending on the scenario.

But if this is something like Columbine the threat can be carrying grenades or a bomb. One only needs to find the vent to the room. Hurl a grenade or a bomb inside and instantly kill of everyone in the room depending on the magnitude of the weapon.

That is not true about the hallways. It is much more difficult to hit a target that is moving and room to move. Versus a target which limited in movement which would be a classroom with many desks. Also most classrooms(Primary & Secondary schools) only have one exit. That one exit enhances the kill-count by a large margin. A hallway has many exits. Therefore more escape points.

And get hit by shrapnel, if you shoot the lock off.

Anyway, which would you rather have? A locked door between you and an attacker that the attacker has to spend time shooting the lock off, or a door that can simply be opened.

I'd also point out that most school doors I've seen have small, reinforced glass windows. Not easy to bash in and then reach inside those.

As far as a bomb, I don't know where you usually see vents where you are from, but where I am someone would need to get a ladder, climb to a central area, and then pitch a grenade who knows how far into the room, at which point it would be blocked by the grill.
Tophatdoc
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1/18/2014 8:34:12 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 1/18/2014 7:56:24 PM, Citrakayah wrote:

And get hit by shrapnel, if you shoot the lock off.

No, it wouldn't happen. As I said Anti-Terrorist and SWAT units practice this tactic often in urban training. Here is a good example from Mythbusters of a firearm being fired at a door lock at close range. Keep in mind these are pad locks. School doors are usually not equipped with pad locks either.
http://videos.howstuffworks.com...

Anyway, which would you rather have? A locked door between you and an attacker that the attacker has to spend time shooting the lock off, or a door that can simply be opened.
What does this have to do with anything? No one mentioned anything about locked doors and doors with no locks. As a victim you won't have a choice in the matter. Shootings aren't planned by the victim they just happen. Do you think when a shooting happens someone randomly runs in a room do you think they are paying attention to see if a door has a lock?

I'd also point out that most school doors I've seen have small, reinforced glass windows. Not easy to bash in and then reach inside those.
Fiber glass? If so depending on the firearm or other weapons used it would be easy to smash fiber glass. Then also it depends on the user. Enough weight, intensity, and the angle of which velocity is being pushed behind the first swing would smash the glass immediately. That depends on the user. If an inexperienced person was using a bat or an axe they could be trying to bash the window for 5 to 10 minutes before it breaks. By that point the police should of already arrived. Considering police allegedly are supposed to have a 2 to 3 minutes response time.

As far as a bomb, I don't know where you usually see vents where you are from, but where I am someone would need to get a ladder, climb to a central area, and then pitch a grenade who knows how far into the room, at which point it would be blocked by the grill.

If it is an mechanical ventilation system they would only need to be above said classroom and locate the vent as I said. Grenades or other explosive weapons needs only to be dropped into the ventilation shaft from the floor above. I don't know what type of ventilation system your referring to. It would be too dangerous for the threat to attempt to stick it in the vent of a room on the same floor as they are. They would simply blow themselves up to kingdom come if they were using a hand grenade.
"Don't click on my profile. Don't send me friend requests. Don't read my debates. There are many interesting people on DDO. Find one of them. Go find someone exciting and loquacious. Go click on their profile. Go send them friend requests. Go read their debates. Leave me alone." -Tophatdoc
Citrakayah
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1/18/2014 9:30:29 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 1/18/2014 8:34:12 PM, Tophatdoc wrote:
No, it wouldn't happen. As I said Anti-Terrorist and SWAT units practice this tactic often in urban training. Here is a good example from Mythbusters of a firearm being fired at a door lock at close range. Keep in mind these are pad locks. School doors are usually not equipped with pad locks either.
http://videos.howstuffworks.com...

SWAT team use specialized rounds, a shotgun rather than a pistol, Kevlar body armor, and full face protection.

What does this have to do with anything? No one mentioned anything about locked doors and doors with no locks. As a victim you won't have a choice in the matter. Shootings aren't planned by the victim they just happen. Do you think when a shooting happens someone randomly runs in a room do you think they are paying attention to see if a door has a lock?

I'm just wondering what you'd suggest instead.

Fiber glass? If so depending on the firearm or other weapons used it would be easy to smash fiber glass. Then also it depends on the user. Enough weight, intensity, and the angle of which velocity is being pushed behind the first swing would smash the glass immediately. That depends on the user. If an inexperienced person was using a bat or an axe they could be trying to bash the window for 5 to 10 minutes before it breaks. By that point the police should of already arrived. Considering police allegedly are supposed to have a 2 to 3 minutes response time.

No, glass reinforced with wire.

If it is an mechanical ventilation system they would only need to be above said classroom and locate the vent as I said. Grenades or other explosive weapons needs only to be dropped into the ventilation shaft from the floor above. I don't know what type of ventilation system your referring to. It would be too dangerous for the threat to attempt to stick it in the vent of a room on the same floor as they are. They would simply blow themselves up to kingdom come if they were using a hand grenade.

Well, in my experience most schools are one floor only.
Tophatdoc
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1/19/2014 10:00:26 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 1/18/2014 9:30:29 PM, Citrakayah wrote:
I'm just wondering what you'd suggest instead.
I'm not going to answer that one over the internet.

Well, in my experience most schools are one floor only.
I don't know where you live. I live in a densely populated city and none of schools nearby have only one floor that includes elementary and secondary schools. I can only think of one public school that has one floor but it is located in the middle of an office building for some strange reason. But there are other floors obviously, they just don't belong to that school.
"Don't click on my profile. Don't send me friend requests. Don't read my debates. There are many interesting people on DDO. Find one of them. Go find someone exciting and loquacious. Go click on their profile. Go send them friend requests. Go read their debates. Leave me alone." -Tophatdoc
lannan13
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1/19/2014 4:22:08 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 1/17/2014 7:35:58 PM, Tophatdoc wrote:
At 1/17/2014 5:37:57 PM, lannan13 wrote:
Most of you know me as the guy that is super Conservative and Pro-NRA, but yesterday an attempted school shooting and bombing occured in Topeka. In a school that is a few miles from mine. Why is this concerning me? It's that some of the conspirators were people from my school! During the arrests the entire Topeka community went on lock-down. This scared the h3ll out of me. http://www.wibw.com...

Will they be charged as adults or juveniles?

Adults.

Interesting, a lock down is purely a token gesture at deceiving people that they are safer. In reality when a lock down happens more people are concentrated in the same vicinity. Therefore they become easier to kill. It never ceases to amaze me that logic is thrown out of the window for instinct in times of danger. For example, how does running from a threat eliminate a threat? It doesn't.
-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-Lannan13'S SIGNATURE-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-

If the sky's the limit then why do we have footprints on the Moon? I'm shooting my aspirations for the stars.

"If you are going through hell, keep going." "Sir Winston Churchill

"No one can make you feel inferior without your consent." "Eleanor Roosevelt

Topics I want to debate. (http://tinyurl.com...)
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lannan13
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1/19/2014 4:23:53 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 1/18/2014 8:10:26 AM, darkkermit wrote:
How serious was the threat? There were numerous bombing threats at my school and I nvr took them that seriously. Our policy for a school bombing was to put everyone into the auditorium which was the most retarded idea ever. Great, now you've rounded them all into a confined area allowing to maximize causalities.

They threatend to blow the entire school up while only targetting 2 admins and 2 campus police officers.
-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-Lannan13'S SIGNATURE-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-

If the sky's the limit then why do we have footprints on the Moon? I'm shooting my aspirations for the stars.

"If you are going through hell, keep going." "Sir Winston Churchill

"No one can make you feel inferior without your consent." "Eleanor Roosevelt

Topics I want to debate. (http://tinyurl.com...)
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lannan13
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1/19/2014 4:26:34 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 1/18/2014 11:04:31 AM, drhead wrote:
At 1/17/2014 7:35:58 PM, Tophatdoc wrote:
At 1/17/2014 5:37:57 PM, lannan13 wrote:
Most of you know me as the guy that is super Conservative and Pro-NRA, but yesterday an attempted school shooting and bombing occured in Topeka. In a school that is a few miles from mine. Why is this concerning me? It's that some of the conspirators were people from my school! During the arrests the entire Topeka community went on lock-down. This scared the h3ll out of me. http://www.wibw.com...

Will they be charged as adults or juveniles?

Interesting, a lock down is purely a token gesture at deceiving people that they are safer. In reality when a lock down happens more people are concentrated in the same vicinity. Therefore they become easier to kill. It never ceases to amaze me that logic is thrown out of the window for instinct in times of danger. For example, how does running from a threat eliminate a threat? It doesn't.

You do realize that most schools have doors on the inside of the building that can be locked, right? (Most even have one for every classroom.) My school has us lock doors, turn the lights off in the room, and have everyone crouch out of the line of sight of the door, while obstructing the door with something like a filing cabinet if possible. If everyone was running around in the hallways or outside, they'd be much easier to kill. This isn't like some Hollywood movie where you can shoot a lock off of a door.

Actually Topeka West is a school that is almost all outside and the ones that are inside have no doors as a matter of fact half of the wall is gone so you can walk down the hall and see 50 different classes in session.
-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-Lannan13'S SIGNATURE-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-

If the sky's the limit then why do we have footprints on the Moon? I'm shooting my aspirations for the stars.

"If you are going through hell, keep going." "Sir Winston Churchill

"No one can make you feel inferior without your consent." "Eleanor Roosevelt

Topics I want to debate. (http://tinyurl.com...)
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lannan13
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1/20/2014 12:35:37 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 1/17/2014 9:41:09 PM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
At 1/17/2014 5:37:57 PM, lannan13 wrote:
Most of you know me as the guy that is super Conservative and Pro-NRA, but yesterday an attempted school shooting and bombing occured in Topeka. In a school that is a few miles from mine. Why is this concerning me? It's that some of the conspirators were people from my school! During the arrests the entire Topeka community went on lock-down. This scared the h3ll out of me. http://www.wibw.com...

Ohhh, give us the 411 plOX.
What were these people like?

Isn't 411 phone repair?
-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-Lannan13'S SIGNATURE-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-

If the sky's the limit then why do we have footprints on the Moon? I'm shooting my aspirations for the stars.

"If you are going through hell, keep going." "Sir Winston Churchill

"No one can make you feel inferior without your consent." "Eleanor Roosevelt

Topics I want to debate. (http://tinyurl.com...)
-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~
Khaos_Mage
Posts: 23,214
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1/20/2014 1:32:07 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 1/20/2014 12:35:37 PM, lannan13 wrote:
At 1/17/2014 9:41:09 PM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
At 1/17/2014 5:37:57 PM, lannan13 wrote:
Most of you know me as the guy that is super Conservative and Pro-NRA, but yesterday an attempted school shooting and bombing occured in Topeka. In a school that is a few miles from mine. Why is this concerning me? It's that some of the conspirators were people from my school! During the arrests the entire Topeka community went on lock-down. This scared the h3ll out of me. http://www.wibw.com...

Ohhh, give us the 411 plOX.
What were these people like?

Isn't 411 phone repair?

411 is information, I thought.
Perhaps it depends on where you live.

So, what were these people like?
Their background, their age, and so on
My work here is, finally, done.
lannan13
Posts: 23,022
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1/20/2014 3:31:41 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 1/20/2014 1:32:07 PM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
At 1/20/2014 12:35:37 PM, lannan13 wrote:
At 1/17/2014 9:41:09 PM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
At 1/17/2014 5:37:57 PM, lannan13 wrote:
Most of you know me as the guy that is super Conservative and Pro-NRA, but yesterday an attempted school shooting and bombing occured in Topeka. In a school that is a few miles from mine. Why is this concerning me? It's that some of the conspirators were people from my school! During the arrests the entire Topeka community went on lock-down. This scared the h3ll out of me. http://www.wibw.com...

Ohhh, give us the 411 plOX.
What were these people like?

Isn't 411 phone repair?

411 is information, I thought.
Perhaps it depends on where you live.

So, what were these people like?
Their background, their age, and so on

sophmores and 1 junior, they were relitively the same age. The one that got arrested was black, but I'm not sure about the others.
-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-Lannan13'S SIGNATURE-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-

If the sky's the limit then why do we have footprints on the Moon? I'm shooting my aspirations for the stars.

"If you are going through hell, keep going." "Sir Winston Churchill

"No one can make you feel inferior without your consent." "Eleanor Roosevelt

Topics I want to debate. (http://tinyurl.com...)
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