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sadolite
Posts: 8,838
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1/25/2014 8:25:51 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Would your opinion of banning guns change if you knew for a fact that the police are under no obligation to respond to your calls for help or protect you?
It's not your views that divide us, it's what you think my views should be that divides us.

If you think I will give up my rights and forsake social etiquette to make you "FEEL" better you are sadly mistaken

If liberal democrats would just stop shooting people gun violence would drop by 90%
bladerunner060
Posts: 7,126
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1/25/2014 10:56:36 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 1/25/2014 8:25:51 PM, sadolite wrote:
Would your opinion of banning guns change if you knew for a fact that the police are under no obligation to respond to your calls for help or protect you?

Nope, mostly because I already know that. And I already am in favor of guns, so I'm not in favor of banning them.

Wait, was this directed at people in favor of banning them?
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Bullish
Posts: 3,527
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1/25/2014 11:23:24 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
If there is no enforcement, there is no point in banning guns. The question is moot.
0x5f3759df
sadolite
Posts: 8,838
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1/26/2014 9:00:12 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 1/25/2014 11:23:24 PM, Bullish wrote:
If there is no enforcement, there is no point in banning guns. The question is moot.

Enforcement is not the same as protection
It's not your views that divide us, it's what you think my views should be that divides us.

If you think I will give up my rights and forsake social etiquette to make you "FEEL" better you are sadly mistaken

If liberal democrats would just stop shooting people gun violence would drop by 90%
Installgentoo
Posts: 1,420
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1/27/2014 10:49:48 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 1/25/2014 8:25:51 PM, sadolite wrote:
Would your opinion of banning guns change if you knew for a fact that the police are under no obligation to respond to your calls for help or protect you?

I demand evidence of this fact.
Double_R
Posts: 4,886
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1/27/2014 3:14:49 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 1/25/2014 8:25:51 PM, sadolite wrote:
Would your opinion of banning guns change if you knew for a fact that the police are under no obligation to respond to your calls for help or protect you?

I'm sorry, who exactly is arguing to ban guns?

Those of us who argue for restricting gun rights are concerned with the gun being taken out of the shooter's hands before he goes on a rampage, not whether the police show up afterward.
bladerunner060
Posts: 7,126
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1/27/2014 4:02:19 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 1/27/2014 3:14:49 PM, Double_R wrote:
At 1/25/2014 8:25:51 PM, sadolite wrote:
Would your opinion of banning guns change if you knew for a fact that the police are under no obligation to respond to your calls for help or protect you?

I'm sorry, who exactly is arguing to ban guns?

Those of us who argue for restricting gun rights are concerned with the gun being taken out of the shooter's hands before he goes on a rampage, not whether the police show up afterward.

Well, to be fair, I think it's a not-commonly-known piece of information, particularly on the left side of the political fence (mostly, IMHO, because the right side of the political fence likes to pull it out as a scare tactic for their base, so they're just more likely to have heard of it before).
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Double_R
Posts: 4,886
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1/27/2014 4:42:55 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 1/27/2014 4:02:19 PM, bladerunner060 wrote:
At 1/27/2014 3:14:49 PM, Double_R wrote:
At 1/25/2014 8:25:51 PM, sadolite wrote:
Would your opinion of banning guns change if you knew for a fact that the police are under no obligation to respond to your calls for help or protect you?

I'm sorry, who exactly is arguing to ban guns?

Those of us who argue for restricting gun rights are concerned with the gun being taken out of the shooter's hands before he goes on a rampage, not whether the police show up afterward.

Well, to be fair, I think it's a not-commonly-known piece of information, particularly on the left side of the political fence (mostly, IMHO, because the right side of the political fence likes to pull it out as a scare tactic for their base, so they're just more likely to have heard of it before).

What's not a commonly known piece of information? If your talking about the predominantly held position on the left (restricting, not banning guns) then I fail to see how the left would be mostly unaware of it. As far as those on the right, anyone who actually pays attention with even an ounce of intellectual honesty would know better. Not sure what the OP's excuse is.
bladerunner060
Posts: 7,126
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1/27/2014 4:46:06 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 1/27/2014 4:42:55 PM, Double_R wrote:
At 1/27/2014 4:02:19 PM, bladerunner060 wrote:
At 1/27/2014 3:14:49 PM, Double_R wrote:
At 1/25/2014 8:25:51 PM, sadolite wrote:
Would your opinion of banning guns change if you knew for a fact that the police are under no obligation to respond to your calls for help or protect you?

I'm sorry, who exactly is arguing to ban guns?

Those of us who argue for restricting gun rights are concerned with the gun being taken out of the shooter's hands before he goes on a rampage, not whether the police show up afterward.

Well, to be fair, I think it's a not-commonly-known piece of information, particularly on the left side of the political fence (mostly, IMHO, because the right side of the political fence likes to pull it out as a scare tactic for their base, so they're just more likely to have heard of it before).

What's not a commonly known piece of information? If your talking about the predominantly held position on the left (restricting, not banning guns) then I fail to see how the left would be mostly unaware of it. As far as those on the right, anyone who actually pays attention with even an ounce of intellectual honesty would know better. Not sure what the OP's excuse is.

Oh, sorry, no I meant the "cops do not have any legal obligation to protect you" thing. Which is not to say it would necessarily change anyone's mind, but considering it factors into some people (generally on the right)'s thinking on the subject, it's not entirely unreasonable to bring it up.

As to the banning guns thing...technically, it wasn't ascribed to anyone specifically. There are some people who ARE in favor of actually "banning guns", though they are by far the minority and, while I wouldn't presume to speak for the OP, I'm feel it likely it was (perhaps unfair) shorthand for those on the side of increased gun control.
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sadolite
Posts: 8,838
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1/27/2014 5:39:38 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 1/27/2014 4:46:06 PM, bladerunner060 wrote:
At 1/27/2014 4:42:55 PM, Double_R wrote:
At 1/27/2014 4:02:19 PM, bladerunner060 wrote:
At 1/27/2014 3:14:49 PM, Double_R wrote:
At 1/25/2014 8:25:51 PM, sadolite wrote:
Would your opinion of banning guns change if you knew for a fact that the police are under no obligation to respond to your calls for help or protect you?

I'm sorry, who exactly is arguing to ban guns?

Those of us who argue for restricting gun rights are concerned with the gun being taken out of the shooter's hands before he goes on a rampage, not whether the police show up afterward.

Well, to be fair, I think it's a not-commonly-known piece of information, particularly on the left side of the political fence (mostly, IMHO, because the right side of the political fence likes to pull it out as a scare tactic for their base, so they're just more likely to have heard of it before).

What's not a commonly known piece of information? If your talking about the predominantly held position on the left (restricting, not banning guns) then I fail to see how the left would be mostly unaware of it. As far as those on the right, anyone who actually pays attention with even an ounce of intellectual honesty would know better. Not sure what the OP's excuse is.

Oh, sorry, no I meant the "cops do not have any legal obligation to protect you" thing. Which is not to say it would necessarily change anyone's mind, but considering it factors into some people (generally on the right)'s thinking on the subject, it's not entirely unreasonable to bring it up.

As to the banning guns thing...technically, it wasn't ascribed to anyone specifically. There are some people who ARE in favor of actually "banning guns", though they are by far the minority and, while I wouldn't presume to speak for the OP, I'm feel it likely it was (perhaps unfair) shorthand for those on the side of increased gun control.

I like how you make it a right wing question.
It's not your views that divide us, it's what you think my views should be that divides us.

If you think I will give up my rights and forsake social etiquette to make you "FEEL" better you are sadly mistaken

If liberal democrats would just stop shooting people gun violence would drop by 90%
ironmaiden
Posts: 456
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1/27/2014 7:13:07 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 1/25/2014 8:25:51 PM, sadolite wrote:
Would your opinion of banning guns change if you knew for a fact that the police are under no obligation to respond to your calls for help or protect you?

Even if they were, it could take them 10 minutes to get to you.
"I know what you're thinking. 'Did he fire six shots or only five?' Well, to tell you the truth, in all this excitement I kinda lost track myself. But being that his is a .44 Magnum, the most powerful handgun in the world and will blow your head clean off, you've got to ask yourself a question. 'Do I feel lucky?' Well, do ya, punk?"
slo1
Posts: 4,350
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1/27/2014 7:13:35 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 1/25/2014 8:25:51 PM, sadolite wrote:
Would your opinion of banning guns change if you knew for a fact that the police are under no obligation to respond to your calls for help or protect you?

I don't think it would sway me either way. Even if police were obligated, what are the odds are that they can get there in time to protect me anyway?
FREEDO
Posts: 21,057
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1/27/2014 7:23:14 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
I would see these police as threats to my security and set out to take away their guns and give them to someone sworn to protect me who can easily be held accountable for corruption.
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
bladerunner060
Posts: 7,126
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1/27/2014 7:54:07 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 1/27/2014 5:39:38 PM, sadolite wrote:
At 1/27/2014 4:46:06 PM, bladerunner060 wrote:
At 1/27/2014 4:42:55 PM, Double_R wrote:
At 1/27/2014 4:02:19 PM, bladerunner060 wrote:
At 1/27/2014 3:14:49 PM, Double_R wrote:
At 1/25/2014 8:25:51 PM, sadolite wrote:
Would your opinion of banning guns change if you knew for a fact that the police are under no obligation to respond to your calls for help or protect you?

I'm sorry, who exactly is arguing to ban guns?

Those of us who argue for restricting gun rights are concerned with the gun being taken out of the shooter's hands before he goes on a rampage, not whether the police show up afterward.

Well, to be fair, I think it's a not-commonly-known piece of information, particularly on the left side of the political fence (mostly, IMHO, because the right side of the political fence likes to pull it out as a scare tactic for their base, so they're just more likely to have heard of it before).

What's not a commonly known piece of information? If your talking about the predominantly held position on the left (restricting, not banning guns) then I fail to see how the left would be mostly unaware of it. As far as those on the right, anyone who actually pays attention with even an ounce of intellectual honesty would know better. Not sure what the OP's excuse is.

Oh, sorry, no I meant the "cops do not have any legal obligation to protect you" thing. Which is not to say it would necessarily change anyone's mind, but considering it factors into some people (generally on the right)'s thinking on the subject, it's not entirely unreasonable to bring it up.

As to the banning guns thing...technically, it wasn't ascribed to anyone specifically. There are some people who ARE in favor of actually "banning guns", though they are by far the minority and, while I wouldn't presume to speak for the OP, I'm feel it likely it was (perhaps unfair) shorthand for those on the side of increased gun control.

I like how you make it a right wing question.

What do you mean? I wasn't trying to say anything negative...I do really think that the cop thing is generally more well-known on the right side of the spectrum, and that it factors into some of the right side of the spectrum's thinking more than the left, as a general rule. Which doesn't mean it has to or anything.
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sadolite
Posts: 8,838
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1/27/2014 8:03:11 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
"Special Relationship
The Due Process Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment forbids the government to deprive individuals of life, liberty, or property without "due process of law."2 In 1989 the U.S. Supreme Court stated, "Nothing in the language of the Due Process Clause itself requires the State to protect the life, liberty, and property of its citizens against invasion by private actors."3 Generally, the Due Process Clause does not provide an affirmative right to government aid, "even where such aid may be necessary to secure life, liberty, or property interests of which the government itself may not deprive the individual."4 "
It's not your views that divide us, it's what you think my views should be that divides us.

If you think I will give up my rights and forsake social etiquette to make you "FEEL" better you are sadly mistaken

If liberal democrats would just stop shooting people gun violence would drop by 90%
Korashk
Posts: 4,597
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1/27/2014 10:13:11 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 1/27/2014 10:49:48 AM, Installgentoo wrote:
At 1/25/2014 8:25:51 PM, sadolite wrote:
Would your opinion of banning guns change if you knew for a fact that the police are under no obligation to respond to your calls for help or protect you?

I demand evidence of this fact.

Most notably Castle Rock v Gonzales. Many states have statutes waiving police from liability for failing to protect individuals
When large numbers of otherwise-law abiding people break specific laws en masse, it's usually a fault that lies with the law. - Unknown
birdlandmemories
Posts: 4,140
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1/28/2014 10:21:12 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
Gun control would not help decrease shootings. It would increase them. If we think guns should be gone, crime will go up big.
Ashton