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should US soldiers be trained in torture?

geoxyx
Posts: 25
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1/26/2014 11:40:18 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 1/26/2014 2:40:36 AM, The_Serb wrote:
I know that SERE courses include this today. is that ok?

http://www.bubblews.com...

Of course they should be trained in torture, so they can gather important information
geoxyx
Posts: 25
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1/26/2014 11:55:37 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 1/26/2014 11:44:27 AM, The_Serb wrote:
Alright. Should the training be instructive, practical or felt on their own bodies?

Different people learn by different means, so I can't answer that question.
The_Serb
Posts: 35
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1/26/2014 11:59:36 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
I Serbia we were beaten, stripped naked, bound and whipped during the "hell week" of our army training. I hurt like hell, so I sure learned were to hit an enemy prisoner too :D

do you think that is right and ok?
geoxyx
Posts: 25
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1/26/2014 12:17:04 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 1/26/2014 11:59:36 AM, The_Serb wrote:
I Serbia we were beaten, stripped naked, bound and whipped during the "hell week" of our army training. I hurt like hell, so I sure learned were to hit an enemy prisoner too :D

do you think that is right and ok?

Well since you signed up for the army, yes, you could have quit at any time.
Khaos_Mage
Posts: 23,214
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1/26/2014 1:24:14 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 1/26/2014 2:40:36 AM, The_Serb wrote:
I know that SERE courses include this today. is that ok?

Are you asking if they should be trained in order to torture, or be trained to endure torture?
My work here is, finally, done.
The_Serb
Posts: 35
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2/23/2014 5:19:16 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 1/26/2014 1:24:14 PM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
At 1/26/2014 2:40:36 AM, The_Serb wrote:
I know that SERE courses include this today. is that ok?

Are you asking if they should be trained in order to torture, or be trained to endure torture?

I am asking if US soldiers should be trained to endure fear and hurt during an enemy interrogation, yes?

what do you think`?
JernHenrik
Posts: 65
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7/22/2015 1:56:04 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/26/2014 1:24:14 PM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
At 1/26/2014 2:40:36 AM, The_Serb wrote:
I know that SERE courses include this today. is that ok?

Are you asking if they should be trained in order to torture, or be trained to endure torture?

---> To torture***
Midnight1131
Posts: 1,643
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7/24/2015 11:57:02 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
If you mean torturing them in training so that they know how to handle torture by other people, then no. There are too many negative side effects of torture in general.
#GaryJohnson2016
#TaxationisTheft
#TheftisTaxation
Mhykiel
Posts: 5,987
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7/25/2015 11:22:29 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/26/2014 2:40:36 AM, The_Serb wrote:
I know that SERE courses include this today. is that ok?

They aren't trained to inflict torture. They are taught to endure torture.

While learning to endure they may learn very little about inflicting pain.

A good torturer knows how to use psychological means into account. And is aware that too much pain in a short amount of time makes the body go numb.

The major issue with torture is it is ineffective for information gathering. It's only real advantage is the coerced submission of prisoners or a population.

As for an information gathering technique it totally sucks.
JernHenrik
Posts: 65
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7/28/2015 10:58:43 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Yeah agreed. It is an unreliable method to collect information.
But don't you agree that mostly torture is used more to punish a prisoner rather than to interrogate?
JernHenrik
Posts: 65
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10/19/2015 2:59:19 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/25/2015 11:22:29 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 1/26/2014 2:40:36 AM, The_Serb wrote:
I know that SERE courses include this today. is that ok?

They aren't trained to inflict torture. They are taught to endure torture.

While learning to endure they may learn very little about inflicting pain.

A good torturer knows how to use psychological means into account. And is aware that too much pain in a short amount of time makes the body go numb.

The major issue with torture is it is ineffective for information gathering. It's only real advantage is the coerced submission of prisoners or a population.

As for an information gathering technique it totally sucks.

If you mean torturing them in training so that they know how to handle torture by other people, the enemy.. then.. yes.. absolutely!

If you mean torturing them in training to learn them how to inflict torture on their prisoners some day, the enemy, then.. yes.. absolutely!

If you mean torturing them in training F O R F U N then.. yes.. absolutely!
Mhykiel
Posts: 5,987
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10/19/2015 4:21:39 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/19/2015 2:59:19 AM, JernHenrik wrote:
At 7/25/2015 11:22:29 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 1/26/2014 2:40:36 AM, The_Serb wrote:
I know that SERE courses include this today. is that ok?

They aren't trained to inflict torture. They are taught to endure torture.

While learning to endure they may learn very little about inflicting pain.

A good torturer knows how to use psychological means into account. And is aware that too much pain in a short amount of time makes the body go numb.

The major issue with torture is it is ineffective for information gathering. It's only real advantage is the coerced submission of prisoners or a population.

As for an information gathering technique it totally sucks.

If you mean torturing them in training so that they know how to handle torture by other people, the enemy.. then.. yes.. absolutely!


That is my intention. They go through a controled training program to learn how to resist torture techniques.

If you mean torturing them in training to learn them how to inflict torture on their prisoners some day, the enemy, then.. yes.. absolutely!


I disagree. Training programs like S.E.R.E only indirectly educate person on how to torture.

If you mean torturing them in training F O R F U N then.. yes.. absolutely!

Instructors at courses like S.E.R.Es are screened. Much better than prison guards at a prison. Torturing for fun I imagine is the last thing anyone learns.

The point of my reply quite simply was to state that the goal of S.E.R.E is not to teach torture techniques. Which is true.
wtf_maine
Posts: 1
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10/20/2015 2:43:58 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
I think they should not only learn how to torture enemies to gather information, but they should also be taught to endure it, as well as be taught on how to get out of a situation if said soldier was being tortured.
savy
JernHenrik
Posts: 65
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11/8/2015 4:22:15 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/19/2015 4:21:39 AM, Mhykiel wrote:

If you mean torturing them in training to learn them how to inflict torture on their prisoners some day, the enemy, then.. yes.. absolutely!


I disagree. Training programs like S.E.R.E only indirectly educate person on how to torture.

If you mean torturing them in training F O R F U N then.. yes.. absolutely!

Instructors at courses like S.E.R.Es are screened. Much better than prison guards at a prison. Torturing for fun I imagine is the last thing anyone learns.

The point of my reply quite simply was to state that the goal of S.E.R.E is not to teach torture techniques. Which is true.

In reply:
Does the S.E.R.E. program learn torture techniques to soldiers?

Yes, it does.
I could be convinced that this is unintended but it still does!
Even in a state of fear and confusion and shame and pain, the soldier cannot help but notice the tricks of the trade:

Strip the prisoner naked
Beatings
Blindfolding
Shouting
Sexual humiliations

If a soldier copies these five techniques, even poorly, then he has learned the basic skills of a torturer. Yes, he has probably seen this in movies too, and he could have learn it elsewhere, but the S.E.R.E. program does play a big part, I am sure of it.

On the final point of it being fun, I accept your argument.
distraff
Posts: 1,005
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11/8/2015 10:36:03 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/26/2014 2:40:36 AM, The_Serb wrote:
I know that SERE courses include this today. is that ok?

Well, the Nazis really had a fundamental knowledge of torture. Also, the Japanese and Vietnamese had that knowledge too. Of course we claimed that their use of torture was unethical. If we can use torture on our enemies then it is ok for our enemies to torture our brave men and women in uniform.
j50wells
Posts: 345
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11/9/2015 5:17:26 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
Teaching our soldiers to torture would be a very bad mistake for many reasons. Firstly, torture doesn't get factual information consistently. Secondly, it creates a violent culture within the army. Thirdly, it says to the American culture that human rights violations are acceptable.
Torture doesn't get factual information because the person being tortured will say anything to stop the torture. They'll say anything they can, and try very hard to convince their torturers that they are telling the truth. Some experts say that more truth is gleamed by playing basketball with the prisoners and making friends with them.
Torture creates a culture of violence. A violent culture within the army leads to other abuses. If it becomes okay to torture, then it becomes okay to rape the women in the village that you have just conquered.

Giving the green light to torture in the army also affects American culture. People will begin to see torture as normal. So then it's okay for police to do it. Then it's okay for security guards to do it. Normally they wouldn't actually torture. But what about lesser crimes like harassment, punches in the face, pushes, or verbal abuse. These are lesser crimes than torture. By condoning torture in the army, our own law enforcement officials will no longer be held accountable for their actions. Do you want this sort of thing going on in the city streets or at your work place? It also sends a message to violent people that violence is sometimes okay.

Lastly, it creates enemies forever. When you torture members of another army, they will never forget it. Neither will their wives and kids. America would become enemy number one, and for many years afterwards, these victims of torture will hate America and want revenge. It would also rub America's history of good will out. America would become a symbol of piratic torturers to the other nations on planet earth. This would be a terrible thing, since America is supposed to be a city on a shining hill, and the hope for humanity. You can't be symbolized with hope if you torture people. Instead, you become a terrible tyrannical nation in the eyes of other nations.