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Ukraine Uprising

ClassicRobert
Posts: 2,487
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1/26/2014 4:53:14 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
http://america.aljazeera.com...

Thoughts?
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slo1
Posts: 4,362
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1/27/2014 4:18:39 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 1/26/2014 4:53:14 PM, ClassicRobert wrote:
http://america.aljazeera.com...

Thoughts?

It is a shame what the gov is trying to do there, suppressing individual rights. On the other hand apparently the far right Svoboda party which has a paramilitary arm is a major player with the violence against police.

Ukraine is f'ed. you have a gov that passes a law against trash talking politicians and then you have an ultra nationalist anti-Semite group trying to gain more power.

It leaves those who want a little freedom and closer ties with Europe left in the cold.

In my mind, if I had to make a choice the current gov or the Svoboda facist sob's I would take the current government and putin.
Tophatdoc
Posts: 534
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1/27/2014 8:11:32 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 1/26/2014 4:53:14 PM, ClassicRobert wrote:
http://america.aljazeera.com...

Thoughts?

Let us be generous; liberal democracy is not the perfect system for Ukrainians in the current point in time. But they need to continue to work out their problems. Hopefully, rationally with discussion, and not by slugging it out in altercations as their politicians have a habit of doing in the parliament. It is not as bad as the confusion that took place after the USSR fell.
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rockwater
Posts: 273
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1/27/2014 8:56:17 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
I had a professor who talked about the "European Dream." Unlike the American Dream, which was for an individual family to get good-paying jobs, a good house, 2 cars, send kids to good colleges, etc., it was a dream for a national community to achieve prosperity by joining the European Common Market and other EU institutions. The professor was speaking after the failure of the European Constitution but before the 2008 financial meltdown and the resultant multiple debt crises in Eurozone countries.

The President's party's strongest support is from the East of the country which contains many ethnic Russians and favors close ties with Russia. The president also has his hands tied because Russia uses oil as a bargaining chip and Ukraine simply cannot afford to get its oil elsewhere (the rest of Europe also is very dependent on Russian oil, much of it flowing in pipelines that go through Ukraine).

The protests started when the president refused to proceed with an association agreement with the European Union. The protestors' strongest support is from areas west of Kiev where almost everyone is ethnically Ukrainian, does not have happy memories of (or were taught by their parents to not be happy about) being ruled by Russia or the USSR, and sees integration with the EU as the path towards transparency in government, access to broader markets, etc., even if the future of the Euro looks shaky (joining the EU and adopting the Euro are not really under consideration for Ukraine right now - this is more of an issue of whether its economic and political ties are more oriented towards Russia or the EU).

There also are religious divisions at play in addition to the political divisions. The Eastern Orthodox Church in Ukraine was originally part of the Moscow Patriarchate (ie, under the oversight of the Russian Orthodox Church), but part of the Orthodox Christians in Ukraine believed that they should be self-governing (autocephalous). This autonomy is not universally recognized by the Eastern Orthodox communion, and is definitely not recognized by the ROC, which is he largest Eastern Orthodox Church by far. Furthermore, the Ukrainian Orthodox Christians who believe Ukraine should have an autocephalous church are not united themselves but split into two different churches. There are also Ukrainian Greek Catholics, who are not Eastern Orthodox but are in communion with the Roman Catholic Pope. The Ukrainian Eastern Orthodox who are not under the Moscow Patriarchate and the Ukrainian Greek Catholics tend to be more in support of the protestors, while the Eastern Orthodox church members under the Moscow patriarchate tend to be more supportive of the government.