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Do you support Barack Obama?

Pitbull15
Posts: 479
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1/27/2014 4:08:02 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
I personally am not for him or his policies. Thanks to him, the national debt skyrocketed; and his approval ratings are getting lower every day. What do you guys say to this? And this is open to anyone who does or doesn't support him.
zmikecuber and I debate the Modal Ontological Argument
http://www.debate.org...

"YOU ARE A TOTAL MORON!!! LOL!!!- invisibledeity

"I have shown incredible restraint in the face of unrelenting stupidity."-Izbo10

"Oh my God, WHO THE HELL CARES?!"-Peter Griffin

"Let me put this in Spanish for you: NO!!"-Jase Robertson
wrichcirw
Posts: 11,196
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1/27/2014 4:29:08 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 1/27/2014 4:08:02 PM, Pitbull15 wrote:
I personally am not for him or his policies.

Thanks to him, the national debt skyrocketed;

Incorrect. It skyrocketed due to the economic catastrophe that hit during Bush's term. Bush went to war without demanding sacrifice, meaning that the economy was unable to support his policies. His chickens came home to roost in Bush's final year. Obama has spent his entire presidency fixing them.

and his approval ratings are getting lower every day. What do you guys say to this? And this is open to anyone who does or doesn't support him.

I think Obama is the right man for the job. He's a moderate no matter how polarizing his presence may be...that's simply a sign of how polarized Washington politics is currently.

I can actually reason though many of his decisions and come up with explanations I am comfortable with, which IMHO is a sign of what a good president would mean to me.

I was in the military during Bush's term, and could not figure out his military policy during the occupation of Iraq. Now, I know he didn't have one. That's the sign of a very, very bad president. Obama does not seem to have this problem...if anything, he thinks TOO much about his policies, which makes Americans think he's aloof. That's not a bad thing after 8 years of Bush.
At 8/9/2013 9:41:24 AM, wrichcirw wrote:
If you are civil with me, I will be civil to you. If you decide to bring unreasonable animosity to bear in a reasonable discussion, then what would you expect other than to get flustered?
rockwater
Posts: 273
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1/27/2014 5:47:16 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
I support him but I am very disappointed in a lot of things he has done and things he has not done. I'm one of those disappointed lefties though and not anyone criticizing him from the Right.

I think the Democratic Party in general is obsessed with poll numbers and with framing arguments and even legislation so that it will be popular. I think that Obama is a moral and intelligent person but I think he is so disillusioned with politics that he feels he has to play dirty or else nothing will get done. But he is not good at playing dirty, glad-handling, being charismatic, etc. So he relies on polling whiz kids and their statistics and focus groups, even with foreign policy - and we can see the results. Of course, when things can be kept hush-hush like with the NSA he does not act with concern for polls...until someone leaks it. Any electable presidential candidate from either party though would have authorized the NSA stuff in the current climate. I'm against it but I'm not naive.

I have no idea if the next president, whether it's Hillary or someone else on the left or anyone on the right, will be able to do much better. The system is broken. But we don't have much momentum from the grass roots or the powers-that-be to change things. We don't have many leaders who are smart, charismatic, effective, and visionary either.
Pitbull15
Posts: 479
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1/27/2014 6:03:41 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
I think the Democratic Party in general is obsessed with poll numbers and with framing arguments and even legislation so that it will be popular. I think that Obama is a moral and intelligent person but I think he is so disillusioned with politics that he feels he has to play dirty or else nothing will get done. But he is not good at playing dirty, glad-handling, being charismatic, etc. So he relies on polling whiz kids and their statistics and focus groups, even with foreign policy - and we can see the results. Of course, when things can be kept hush-hush like with the NSA he does not act with concern for polls...until someone leaks.

You have a point. And the Republican Party isn't really all that great either. By all accounts, Obama was a good father and husband, and an okay guy, but he is definitely not the best president. As a country, we've definitely done better than him.
zmikecuber and I debate the Modal Ontological Argument
http://www.debate.org...

"YOU ARE A TOTAL MORON!!! LOL!!!- invisibledeity

"I have shown incredible restraint in the face of unrelenting stupidity."-Izbo10

"Oh my God, WHO THE HELL CARES?!"-Peter Griffin

"Let me put this in Spanish for you: NO!!"-Jase Robertson
Pitbull15
Posts: 479
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1/27/2014 6:09:48 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 1/27/2014 4:29:08 PM, wrichcirw wrote:
At 1/27/2014 4:08:02 PM, Pitbull15 wrote:
I personally am not for him or his policies.

Thanks to him, the national debt skyrocketed;

Incorrect. It skyrocketed due to the economic catastrophe that hit during Bush's term. Bush went to war without demanding sacrifice, meaning that the economy was unable to support his policies. His chickens came home to roost in Bush's final year. Obama has spent his entire presidency fixing them.

and his approval ratings are getting lower every day. What do you guys say to this? And this is open to anyone who does or doesn't support him.

I think Obama is the right man for the job. He's a moderate no matter how polarizing his presence may be...that's simply a sign of how polarized Washington politics is currently.

I can actually reason though many of his decisions and come up with explanations I am comfortable with, which IMHO is a sign of what a good president would mean to me.

I was in the military during Bush's term, and could not figure out his military policy during the occupation of Iraq. Now, I know he didn't have one. That's the sign of a very, very bad president. Obama does not seem to have this problem...if anything, he thinks TOO much about his policies, which makes Americans think he's aloof. That's not a bad thing after 8 years of Bush.

Bush was DEFINITELY not the best president we've had either. You may have a point with the national debt thing, and you're definitely correct on the military policy. But about Obama being the right man for the job; He's been president for almost 6 years now, but he hasn't exactly fulfilled his promises of hope and change. And more recently, he lied about Obamacare, saying before that you had an option as to whether or not you wanted to keep your old Healthcare plan, but now it's mandatory that we sign up. I know he isn't perfect, just like Bush wasn't, but there isn't a whole lot of good that I know of that he's done for the country. This is just me, of course. If you've got information to refute my statement, (Which I'm sure you do somewhere.) go ahead and educate me.
zmikecuber and I debate the Modal Ontological Argument
http://www.debate.org...

"YOU ARE A TOTAL MORON!!! LOL!!!- invisibledeity

"I have shown incredible restraint in the face of unrelenting stupidity."-Izbo10

"Oh my God, WHO THE HELL CARES?!"-Peter Griffin

"Let me put this in Spanish for you: NO!!"-Jase Robertson
wrichcirw
Posts: 11,196
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1/27/2014 6:22:30 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 1/27/2014 6:09:48 PM, Pitbull15 wrote:
At 1/27/2014 4:29:08 PM, wrichcirw wrote:
At 1/27/2014 4:08:02 PM, Pitbull15 wrote:
I personally am not for him or his policies.

Thanks to him, the national debt skyrocketed;

Incorrect. It skyrocketed due to the economic catastrophe that hit during Bush's term. Bush went to war without demanding sacrifice, meaning that the economy was unable to support his policies. His chickens came home to roost in Bush's final year. Obama has spent his entire presidency fixing them.

and his approval ratings are getting lower every day. What do you guys say to this? And this is open to anyone who does or doesn't support him.

I think Obama is the right man for the job. He's a moderate no matter how polarizing his presence may be...that's simply a sign of how polarized Washington politics is currently.

I can actually reason though many of his decisions and come up with explanations I am comfortable with, which IMHO is a sign of what a good president would mean to me.

I was in the military during Bush's term, and could not figure out his military policy during the occupation of Iraq. Now, I know he didn't have one. That's the sign of a very, very bad president. Obama does not seem to have this problem...if anything, he thinks TOO much about his policies, which makes Americans think he's aloof. That's not a bad thing after 8 years of Bush.


Bush was DEFINITELY not the best president we've had either. You may have a point with the national debt thing, and you're definitely correct on the military policy. But about Obama being the right man for the job; He's been president for almost 6 years now, but he hasn't exactly fulfilled his promises of hope and change. And more recently, he lied about Obamacare, saying before that you had an option as to whether or not you wanted to keep your old Healthcare plan, but now it's mandatory that we sign up. I know he isn't perfect, just like Bush wasn't, but there isn't a whole lot of good that I know of that he's done for the country. This is just me, of course. If you've got information to refute my statement, (Which I'm sure you do somewhere.) go ahead and educate me.

All I will note is that presidents fibbing isn't anything new. I still remember Bush I's famous line "Read my lips: NO NEW TAXES", only to raise taxes the year after he got elected. People could not forgive him for that, even though by nearly all other accounts he was an outstanding president (unfortunately none of that rubbed off on his son, lol). I think history has looked quite favorably on Bush Sr., and more than likely history will look favorably on Obama as well.

Obama has done his fair share, especially on foreign policy - Libya, bin Laden, closing two extremely unpopular wars, successfully navigating the Arab Spring. Also, I don't know how aware you were of economic policy in 2008, but economically we were facing what many sources deemed "financial Armageddon". I think Obama has done well enough given those kind of circumstances. He was arguably given the worst hand a president has been given since WWI.
At 8/9/2013 9:41:24 AM, wrichcirw wrote:
If you are civil with me, I will be civil to you. If you decide to bring unreasonable animosity to bear in a reasonable discussion, then what would you expect other than to get flustered?
Pitbull15
Posts: 479
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1/27/2014 6:29:18 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
All I will note is that presidents fibbing isn't anything new. I still remember Bush I's famous line "Read my lips: NO NEW TAXES", only to raise taxes the year after he got elected. People could not forgive him for that, even though by nearly all other accounts he was an outstanding president (unfortunately none of that rubbed off on his son, lol). I think history has looked quite favorably on Bush Sr., and more than likely history will look favorably on Obama as well.

Obama has done his fair share, especially on foreign policy - Libya, bin Laden, closing two extremely unpopular wars, successfully navigating the Arab Spring. Also, I don't know how aware you were of economic policy in 2008, but economically we were facing what many sources deemed "financial Armageddon". I think Obama has done well enough given those kind of circumstances. He was arguably given the worst hand a president has been given since WWI.

Yeah, Bush fails pretty hard in this instance. And most presidents that are unfavorably looked upon by the public have done a decent amount of good in their terms. And the economy's been getting worse for a long time, and even though both presidents did okay in trying to stop the crisis, IMHO they ended up making it worse in the long run. But as for Obama being looked upon favorably in history, we'll just have to wait about 50 years or so lol.
zmikecuber and I debate the Modal Ontological Argument
http://www.debate.org...

"YOU ARE A TOTAL MORON!!! LOL!!!- invisibledeity

"I have shown incredible restraint in the face of unrelenting stupidity."-Izbo10

"Oh my God, WHO THE HELL CARES?!"-Peter Griffin

"Let me put this in Spanish for you: NO!!"-Jase Robertson
wrichcirw
Posts: 11,196
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1/27/2014 6:29:35 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Then, there's also the fact that it's back to business-as-usual with the US and Russia being antagonistic towards each other. Putin actually sent Bush II a "get well card" when he had surgery last year...this is because Bush II's war in Iraq enriched and empowered Putin more than anything Putin himself could have ever done (Russia profited immensely from the spike in energy prices caused by Bush's war).

This is a good thing. Any POTUS stupid enough to utter a statement like "my friend Vladimir" deserves to be tried for treason. (http://www.foreignpolicy.com...)

---

Then, there's also the fact that during Bush II's term, China amassed $1 trillion in US debt securities, essentially gaining a say in dictating American budgetary policy. During Obama's term, this did not increase. This is another good thing to have come from Obama.
At 8/9/2013 9:41:24 AM, wrichcirw wrote:
If you are civil with me, I will be civil to you. If you decide to bring unreasonable animosity to bear in a reasonable discussion, then what would you expect other than to get flustered?