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The Decline of America

Volkov
Posts: 9,765
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1/20/2010 1:05:07 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
I've often heard people compare the slow wilting of the US to the decline of the ancient Roman Empire, yet as I've been reading up (and watching about) that very subject, I've found very little comparison between the two. Yet people keep insisting there is similarities. Anyone care to point them out?
Ore_Ele
Posts: 25,980
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1/20/2010 1:08:22 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 1/20/2010 1:05:07 PM, Volkov wrote:
I've often heard people compare the slow wilting of the US to the decline of the ancient Roman Empire, yet as I've been reading up (and watching about) that very subject, I've found very little comparison between the two. Yet people keep insisting there is similarities. Anyone care to point them out?

They both wilted, thats about it. Oh, and they (americans) like to believe that the USA is the greatest country on Earth right now, like the Roman Empire was in its time.
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
I-am-a-panda
Posts: 15,380
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1/20/2010 1:08:45 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 1/20/2010 1:05:07 PM, Volkov wrote:
I've often heard people compare the slow wilting of the US to the decline of the ancient Roman Empire, yet as I've been reading up (and watching about) that very subject, I've found very little comparison between the two. Yet people keep insisting there is similarities. Anyone care to point them out?

Well, libertarians constantly state the Roman empire fell when it introduced welfare. I'm not too well read up on Roman history.
Pizza. I have enormous respect for Pizza.
Volkov
Posts: 9,765
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1/20/2010 1:09:17 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 1/20/2010 1:08:22 PM, OreEle wrote:
They both wilted, thats about it. Oh, and they (americans) like to believe that the USA is the greatest country on Earth right now, like the Roman Empire was in its time.

That's absolutely f*cking stupid. That is such a poor basis for comparison that I almost feel intellectually offended.
Volkov
Posts: 9,765
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1/20/2010 1:10:04 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 1/20/2010 1:08:45 PM, I-am-a-panda wrote:
Well, libertarians constantly state the Roman empire fell when it introduced welfare. I'm not too well read up on Roman history.

I've never heard of that argument before. I need to check up on that.
Frodobaggins
Posts: 602
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1/20/2010 1:21:15 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
The old wisdom that was borne out of the West was forsaken. Kings made tombs more splendid than the houses of the living and counted the names of their descent dearer than the names of their sons. Childless lords sat in aged halls musing on heraldry or in high, cold towers asking questions of the stars. And so the people of Gondor fell into ruin. The line of Kings failed, the White Tree withered, and the rule of Gondor was given over to lesser men.
Ore_Ele
Posts: 25,980
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1/20/2010 1:25:41 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 1/20/2010 1:21:15 PM, Frodobaggins wrote:
The old wisdom that was borne out of the West was forsaken. Kings made tombs more splendid than the houses of the living and counted the names of their descent dearer than the names of their sons. Childless lords sat in aged halls musing on heraldry or in high, cold towers asking questions of the stars. And so the people of Gondor fell into ruin. The line of Kings failed, the White Tree withered, and the rule of Gondor was given over to lesser men.

But the King has Returned!
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
Ragnar_Rahl
Posts: 19,297
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1/20/2010 1:31:29 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
Welfare? Cato seems to think Rome always had a welfare state. Regulation in the narrow sense, inflation, and taxes seem to be the variables it likes to point to.

http://www.cato.org...

Somehow I doubt the rule of law was consistent enough to render the economic effects of variations in these policies to be big enough significantly affect the stability of the empire though, especially considering that the economy wasn't all that complex by standards that existed during any time people actually studied economics.
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
Zetsubou
Posts: 4,933
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1/20/2010 1:39:35 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
In Oxford: Politics, A very short Introduction by Kenneth Minogue.

In the Book(CP 4), Minogue links Roman Patriotism to American Patriotism. He calls the US "a self proclaimed state of Liberty". No comment on Decline though.

Anyway…

by Origins,
by Power,
by Imperialism,
by Decline,

United State of America and the Romani Imperii are very different indeed.

Though who thinks otherwise?
'sup DDO -- july 2013
Ore_Ele
Posts: 25,980
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1/20/2010 2:44:07 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 1/20/2010 2:42:48 PM, MistahKurtz wrote:
One theory suggests that the Roman Empire fell because of a period of heavy rainfall

So keep an eye on the weather, America.

Damn, Oregon and Washington are screwed!
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
I-am-a-panda
Posts: 15,380
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1/20/2010 3:00:22 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 1/20/2010 2:42:48 PM, MistahKurtz wrote:
One theory suggests that the Roman Empire fell because of a period of heavy rainfall

So keep an eye on the weather, America.

Heavy rainfall --> food shortages before modern technology :).
Pizza. I have enormous respect for Pizza.
I-am-a-panda
Posts: 15,380
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1/20/2010 3:06:45 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 1/20/2010 3:03:45 PM, wonderwoman wrote:
But I hate America (o don't flag me for terrorism)

I thought the Roman empire never ended for you, that Mussolini resurrected it and it is currently being denied it's rightful place.
Pizza. I have enormous respect for Pizza.
Zetsubou
Posts: 4,933
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1/20/2010 3:08:39 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 1/20/2010 3:06:45 PM, I-am-a-panda wrote:
At 1/20/2010 3:03:45 PM, wonderwoman wrote:
But I hate America (o don't flag me for terrorism)

I thought the Roman empire never ended for you, that Mussolini resurrected it and it is currently being denied it's rightful place.

Make that Hitler. Germans are the closest to the Romans.
'sup DDO -- july 2013
I-am-a-panda
Posts: 15,380
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1/20/2010 3:09:56 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 1/20/2010 3:08:39 PM, Zetsubou wrote:
At 1/20/2010 3:06:45 PM, I-am-a-panda wrote:
At 1/20/2010 3:03:45 PM, wonderwoman wrote:
But I hate America (o don't flag me for terrorism)

I thought the Roman empire never ended for you, that Mussolini resurrected it and it is currently being denied it's rightful place.

Make that Hitler. Germans are the closest to the Romans.

Germania was a reason the Romans fell.
Pizza. I have enormous respect for Pizza.
Volkov
Posts: 9,765
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1/20/2010 3:18:05 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 1/20/2010 3:09:56 PM, I-am-a-panda wrote:
At 1/20/2010 3:08:39 PM, Zetsubou wrote:
At 1/20/2010 3:06:45 PM, I-am-a-panda wrote:
At 1/20/2010 3:03:45 PM, wonderwoman wrote:
But I hate America (o don't flag me for terrorism)

I thought the Roman empire never ended for you, that Mussolini resurrected it and it is currently being denied it's rightful place.

Make that Hitler. Germans are the closest to the Romans.

Germania was a reason the Romans fell.

Well... technically it was the Goths. Germany essentially made up the "second reincarnation" of the Roman empire, with the Holy Roman Empire in the Middles Ages.
Zetsubou
Posts: 4,933
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1/20/2010 3:23:19 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 1/20/2010 3:09:56 PM, I-am-a-panda wrote:
At 1/20/2010 3:08:39 PM, Zetsubou wrote:
At 1/20/2010 3:06:45 PM, I-am-a-panda wrote:
At 1/20/2010 3:03:45 PM, wonderwoman wrote:
But I hate America (o don't flag me for terrorism)

I thought the Roman empire never ended for you, that Mussolini resurrected it and it is currently being denied it's rightful place.

Make that Hitler. Germans are the closest to the Romans.

Germania was a reason the Romans fell.

No, Francs, Goths, Northern Germanics all attacked rome.

Ethnic Germans are closest to the Romans many settled in Germany much like when the Dutch and British in America.

Most Romans orginated from south Germany anyway.
'sup DDO -- july 2013
Zetsubou
Posts: 4,933
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1/20/2010 3:25:02 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 1/20/2010 3:18:05 PM, Volkov wrote:
At 1/20/2010 3:09:56 PM, I-am-a-panda wrote:
At 1/20/2010 3:08:39 PM, Zetsubou wrote:
At 1/20/2010 3:06:45 PM, I-am-a-panda wrote:
At 1/20/2010 3:03:45 PM, wonderwoman wrote:
But I hate America (o don't flag me for terrorism)

I thought the Roman empire never ended for you, that Mussolini resurrected it and it is currently being denied it's rightful place.

Make that Hitler. Germans are the closest to the Romans.

Germania was a reason the Romans fell.

Well... technically it was the Goths. Germany essentially made up the "second reincarnation" of the Roman empire, with the Holy Roman Empire in the Middles Ages.

Roman Empire the Birth Reich.

1st - Sacri Romanum Imprii(Holy Roman Empire)
2nd - Prussia
3rd - Deuchland
'sup DDO -- july 2013
Volkov
Posts: 9,765
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1/20/2010 4:01:24 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 1/20/2010 3:25:02 PM, Zetsubou wrote:
Roman Empire the Birth Reich.

1st - Sacri Romanum Imprii(Holy Roman Empire)
2nd - Prussia
3rd - Deuchland

Fair enough, though I wasn't thinking in the context of the Reichs.