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Let's talk about Israel and Palestine

rockwater
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2/17/2014 10:28:40 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
I would like to discuss what agreements would provide for peace and justice with regards to the people and lands in Israel and Palestine.

I think that a two state solution is the only viable option given the politics and passions of all sides.

The two states would need porous but secured borders, two armies and police forces that worked together on most things, free movement of people to work and visit family in either state, first-class citizenship for Arabs in Israel and Jews in Palestine, etc. Water rights would have to be shared. The borders would have to provide both states with security, the ability for people to get around inside the country, and a fair share of resources. The Temple Mount would have to be jointly administered or administered by an international organization. Both sides will have to make major concessions.

This is a pipe dream given current political realities but it seems the least negative of all options - meaning that continuing the current status quo is even worse.

Why is a ban on all future settlement building a bad idea? I would think that it would be the most reasonable first step towards peace. Next should be the replacement of Israeli forces in the non-settlement West Bank with peacekeeping troops that come from the UN or a combination of NATO and the Arab Union. The militias in Palestine would need to disarm. Peacekeepers might need to move into Gaza as well.

None if this is even remotely possible until some stability is achieved in Syria - and any settlement in Israel will probably need to be preceded by more stability in Lebanon and Egypt. But let's talk about the hard truths that people need to face instead of hiding behind the exigencies of the short term. How do we give a just peace and a homeland to both the Palestinian people and the Jews of the world? We can't undo the injustices of the past but we can try to prevent more of them on the future. How?
HPWKA
Posts: 401
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2/17/2014 3:45:09 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
The two state solution is ideal, but is looking increasing unlikely as time goes on, for the following reasons.

Israel continues to build illegal settlements in Palestinian territory (West Bank and East Jerusalem), and states point-blank, that they won't agree to any peace, unless they are allowed to incorporate major settlement blocks into the official Israeli-borders. Such an action would not only be a gross-violation of international law, but fragment the new Palestinian state, to the point where its hardly viable.

The right of return is another point of concern, as 5 million Palestinian's are legally entitled to return to their homeland in Israel, that they and their parents were expelled from during the 1948 and 1967 wars. Israel rejects this, since such an influx of non-Jews with incoming voting rights, would seriously dilute the ability of Israel to be a "Jewish" state.
The issue made progress in 2001, with Israel willing to accept up to 100,000 refugees, and Palestine wanting 500,000. However, since then, Israel has elected a more right-wing government, which has pretty much rejected the right of return all together.

The status of Jerusalem (the holy city) is another problem. East Jerusalem legally belongs to the Palestinians, yet Israel has annexed it (no country recognizes this legally), and refuses to give any part of it to a future Palestinian state. This is an issue which Israel has shown no interest in negotiating, so the best course of action is to make the entirety of Jerusalem an "open-city" under international control. Both sides don't like this idea, but the Palestinian leadership has said they are willing to accept a solution along those lines, while Israel flatly refuses anything that doesn't end with Jerusalem under Israeli jurisdiction.

There are other minor issues holding up a deal, but the above 3 are generally recognized to be the major ones.
Feelings are the fleeting fancy of fools.
The search for truth in a world of lies is the only thing that matters.
bubbatheclown
Posts: 1,258
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2/17/2014 4:48:11 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Jordan was originally the state set up for the Palestinians. That was the two state solution. They should go there, as they were originally supposed to.
HPWKA
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2/17/2014 6:23:11 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/17/2014 4:48:11 PM, bubbatheclown wrote:
Jordan was originally the state set up for the Palestinians. That was the two state solution. They should go there, as they were originally supposed to.

Jordan was never intended to be a Palestinian state. This is a myth espoused by the Israeli far-right, in an attempt to legitimize the ethnic cleansing of the Palestinians from the West Bank. The following article, though dated, provides a reasonable history of this subject.

http://www.danielpipes.org...
Feelings are the fleeting fancy of fools.
The search for truth in a world of lies is the only thing that matters.
rockwater
Posts: 273
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2/18/2014 10:03:55 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/17/2014 4:48:11 PM, bubbatheclown wrote:
Jordan was originally the state set up for the Palestinians. That was the two state solution. They should go there, as they were originally supposed to.

There are Palestianians in Jordan, Lebanon and other countries. Many still live in refugee camps because Jordan and other countries do not consider them citizens or permanent residents. You can't force any country to give them all asylum, no country in the area is economically or politically able to absorb all the refugees, and many Palestinians might refuse to immigrate to another country if you offered them. Jordan wound up with the West Bank after the 1948 War and the proposed Palestinian State was a non-starter. Jordan never said it would let all the West Bank Palestinians settle there and they have been without a sovereign state of their own since. I'm not anti-Israel but you can't just say Jordan is a home for all Palestinians because it isn't.
rockwater
Posts: 273
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2/19/2014 10:42:43 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
Another question: is it fair for any state to be a Jewish state? I am not talking about allowing Jews anywhere to become Israeli citizens or having Jewish symbols in the flag, etc. Does any other modern developed democracy claim to be the state of a specific nationality/religion and not the state of all citizens in its borders. Arab Israelis are technically equal under the law, but they are not included in calling Israel a Jewish state. I think Israel should change to being the state for Jews and Israelis in all official definitions, so that non-Jewish Israelis are included in the purpose of the Israeli state.
HPWKA
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2/19/2014 4:03:24 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/19/2014 10:42:43 AM, rockwater wrote:
Another question: is it fair for any state to be a Jewish state? I am not talking about allowing Jews anywhere to become Israeli citizens or having Jewish symbols in the flag, etc. Does any other modern developed democracy claim to be the state of a specific nationality/religion and not the state of all citizens in its borders. Arab Israelis are technically equal under the law, but they are not included in calling Israel a Jewish state. I think Israel should change to being the state for Jews and Israelis in all official definitions, so that non-Jewish Israelis are included in the purpose of the Israeli state.

I think a state can call itself whatever it wants, and it can also be a democracy, as long as the rights of the minority are equal to the majority. Unfortunately, Israel isn't a democracy, and won't be one anytime soon.

In Israel, there are more then 50 laws discriminating against Israeli Arabs, and that's not even mentioning the complete disenfranchisement of the Palestinians Arabs, who are controlled by Israel, but not given a vote, and kept in a system of Apartheid.
Feelings are the fleeting fancy of fools.
The search for truth in a world of lies is the only thing that matters.
rockwater
Posts: 273
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2/19/2014 5:24:30 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/19/2014 4:03:24 PM, HPWKA wrote:
At 2/19/2014 10:42:43 AM, rockwater wrote:
Another question: is it fair for any state to be a Jewish state? I am not talking about allowing Jews anywhere to become Israeli citizens or having Jewish symbols in the flag, etc. Does any other modern developed democracy claim to be the state of a specific nationality/religion and not the state of all citizens in its borders. Arab Israelis are technically equal under the law, but they are not included in calling Israel a Jewish state. I think Israel should change to being the state for Jews and Israelis in all official definitions, so that non-Jewish Israelis are included in the purpose of the Israeli state.

I think a state can call itself whatever it wants, and it can also be a democracy, as long as the rights of the minority are equal to the majority. Unfortunately, Israel isn't a democracy, and won't be one anytime soon.

In Israel, there are more then 50 laws discriminating against Israeli Arabs, and that's not even mentioning the complete disenfranchisement of the Palestinians Arabs, who are controlled by Israel, but not given a vote, and kept in a system of Apartheid.

Israel's government is asking the Palestinian Authority to recognize it as a Jewish state
(Palestine already recognizes Israel as a state) as a prerequisite
for a peace deal. This is what I am getting at. I think it should be revised to requiring Palestine to recognize Israel as a state for the Israeli people regardless of ethnicity/religion and as a homeland for the Jews of the world. I would call this "a state for Israelis and for Jews everywhere." Should Israelis consider that fair?
HPWKA
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2/19/2014 6:04:02 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Israel's government is asking the Palestinian Authority to recognize it as a Jewish state
(Palestine already recognizes Israel as a state) as a prerequisite
for a peace deal. This is what I am getting at. I think it should be revised to requiring Palestine to recognize Israel as a state for the Israeli people regardless of ethnicity/religion and as a homeland for the Jews of the world. I would call this "a state for Israelis and for Jews everywhere." Should Israelis consider that fair?

The demand that Palestine recognize Israel as a 'Jewish State' has no moral or legal basis, and is largely a (successful) attempt to derail any serious negotiations, by making the "Jewish State" a precondition for a deal.

Palestinians are afraid that such recognition would delegitimize the Arab Israeli's, as well as nullify a "right of return", for Palestinian refugees expelled by Israel. Not to mention, it would be a huge slap in the face for the entire Palestinian national movement.

If Israel continue this charade, I think it would be best for Palestine to offer to recognize Israel as a" Jewish State, without prejudice to the rights of non-Jewish citizens, or refugees. ".
Feelings are the fleeting fancy of fools.
The search for truth in a world of lies is the only thing that matters.
donald.keller
Posts: 3,709
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2/19/2014 6:38:41 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/17/2014 6:23:11 PM, HPWKA wrote:
At 2/17/2014 4:48:11 PM, bubbatheclown wrote:
Jordan was originally the state set up for the Palestinians. That was the two state solution. They should go there, as they were originally supposed to.

Jordan was never intended to be a Palestinian state. This is a myth espoused by the Israeli far-right, in an attempt to legitimize the ethnic cleansing of the Palestinians from the West Bank. The following article, though dated, provides a reasonable history of this subject.

http://www.danielpipes.org...

Palestine was the the state set up for the Palestinians... Until they declared war to take all of the Jew's land, and lost...
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donald.keller
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2/19/2014 6:40:01 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/19/2014 10:42:43 AM, rockwater wrote:
Another question: is it fair for any state to be a Jewish state? I am not talking about allowing Jews anywhere to become Israeli citizens or having Jewish symbols in the flag, etc. Does any other modern developed democracy claim to be the state of a specific nationality/religion and not the state of all citizens in its borders. Arab Israelis are technically equal under the law, but they are not included in calling Israel a Jewish state. I think Israel should change to being the state for Jews and Israelis in all official definitions, so that non-Jewish Israelis are included in the purpose of the Israeli state.

Every state in the Middle East is a Muslim ran state... Why can't Israel be Jewish ran?
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HPWKA
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2/19/2014 8:29:29 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Palestine was the the state set up for the Palestinians... Until they declared war to take all of the Jew's land, and lost...

The majority of Palestinians didn't approve of the UN partition of their homeland (understandably), but they didn't take up arms against Israel or the British, but were resigned to their fate. There were only a few hundred Palestinian militiamen fighting against Jewish/British colonization at this time, compared to thousands of Jewish soldiers doing the same.

After the UN vote in 1947, Jewish militias began attacking and expelling Palestinians on both sides of the UN partition, and as such, 300,000 Palestinians were expelled from their homes before any Arab army entered Palestine in 1948.

The only people(s) who attacked the Jewish state were a few Arab states in mid-1948, which doesn't mean much, as they attacked and stole parts of Palestine as well. Regardless, the actions of a couple Arab states doesn't justify the ethnic cleansing of the Palestinians (750,000), who took no such action against Israel.

Also, it should be noted, that it was the stated policy of Israeli-leadership pre-1948, to use the UN partition to build up strength, with which they would use to forcibly expand into the rest of Palestine, expelling any Muslim or Christian who resisted.
Feelings are the fleeting fancy of fools.
The search for truth in a world of lies is the only thing that matters.
donald.keller
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2/19/2014 8:39:31 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/19/2014 8:29:29 PM, HPWKA wrote:
Palestine was the the state set up for the Palestinians... Until they declared war to take all of the Jew's land, and lost...

The majority of Palestinians didn't approve of the UN partition of their homeland (understandably), but they didn't take up arms against Israel or the British, but were resigned to their fate. There were only a few hundred Palestinian militiamen fighting against Jewish/British colonization at this time, compared to thousands of Jewish soldiers doing the same.

Lol wow... There was 140,000 Israelis against an army of 710,000 Arabs...

After the UN vote in 1947, Jewish militias began attacking and expelling Palestinians on both sides of the UN partition, and as such, 300,000 Palestinians were expelled from their homes before any Arab army entered Palestine in 1948.

Almost as soon as the UN made it's agreement, with Palestine having the majority of land in the area, The Palestinians and every Arab nation around them declared war on Israel.

The only people(s) who attacked the Jewish state were a few Arab states in mid-1948, which doesn't mean much, as they attacked and stole parts of Palestine as well. Regardless, the actions of a couple Arab states doesn't justify the ethnic cleansing of the Palestinians (750,000), who took no such action against Israel.

The "only people" you described was nearly every Arab nation around Israel, with an army 5x the Israeli Army's size.

Also, it should be noted, that it was the stated policy of Israeli-leadership pre-1948, to use the UN partition to build up strength, with which they would use to forcibly expand into the rest of Palestine, expelling any Muslim or Christian who resisted.

Where is this stated policy? The Israeli got that land after a treaty ending the war the Arabs started against them. The Treaty was to solidify Israeli borders, since, as it turns out, this border wasn't easy to defend: http://www.thenagain.info... (they have the white land.)
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HPWKA
Posts: 401
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2/19/2014 9:35:15 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Lol wow... There was 140,000 Israelis against an army of 710,000 Arabs...

At the outbreak of the 1948 war, there were more Arab soldiers then Jewish soldiers, however, this wasn't much of an advantage, since the Arab armies weren't unified in their goals. Iraq and Jordan entered the war to "steal" the West Bank from the newly minted Palestine state (as per negotiations with Israel), and didn't really attack anything within Israel's borders. Regardless, within a couple weeks, Israel soon fielded more soldiers then all the Arab armies combined.

Almost as soon as the UN made it's agreement, with Palestine having the majority of land in the area, The Palestinians and every Arab nation around them declared war on Israel.

You don't know your history. The UN partition passed in November 1947, while the Arab armies waited until May 1948 to attack (when the British mandate legally expired). This 6-month lull was marked with the expulsion of 300,000 Palestinians from their land, despite no significant or cohesive attacks on the Jews.

The "only people" you described was nearly every Arab nation around Israel, with an army 5x the Israeli Army's size.

Addressed above. The Arab armies weren't unified, ill-equipped, and were soon outnumbered by Israeli soldiers.

Where is this stated policy? The Israeli got that land after a treaty ending the war the Arabs started against them. The Treaty was to solidify Israeli borders, since, as it turns out, this border wasn't easy to defend: http://www.thenagain.info... (they have the white land.)

Ben-Gurion, Israel's Prime Minister, stated, "after we become a strong force, as a result of the creation of a state, we shall abolish partition and expand into the whole of Palestine". This sentiment was echoed across Israel, and they did what they said they would.

Israel wasn't granted any land after the 1948 war. The 1949 cease-fire brokered by the UN only ordered the belligerent states to withdraw to "armistice lines" to cease hostilities. They stated that these boundaries weren't considered legal or binding. Both the Arab states and Israel agreed at the time, as the Arabs wanted to reconquer the land stolen by Israel, while Israel wanted to conquer even more land (which they did in 1967). The land conquered by Israel in 1948 wasn't recognized legally until post-1967.
Feelings are the fleeting fancy of fools.
The search for truth in a world of lies is the only thing that matters.
YYW
Posts: 36,287
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2/19/2014 9:43:46 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/19/2014 9:35:15 PM, HPWKA wrote:
Lol wow... There was 140,000 Israelis against an army of 710,000 Arabs...

At the outbreak of the 1948 war, there were more Arab soldiers then Jewish soldiers, however, this wasn't much of an advantage, since the Arab armies weren't unified in their goals. Iraq and Jordan entered the war to "steal" the West Bank from the newly minted Palestine state (as per negotiations with Israel), and didn't really attack anything within Israel's borders. Regardless, within a couple weeks, Israel soon fielded more soldiers then all the Arab armies combined.

Almost as soon as the UN made it's agreement, with Palestine having the majority of land in the area, The Palestinians and every Arab nation around them declared war on Israel.

You don't know your history. The UN partition passed in November 1947, while the Arab armies waited until May 1948 to attack (when the British mandate legally expired). This 6-month lull was marked with the expulsion of 300,000 Palestinians from their land, despite no significant or cohesive attacks on the Jews.

The "only people" you described was nearly every Arab nation around Israel, with an army 5x the Israeli Army's size.

Addressed above. The Arab armies weren't unified, ill-equipped, and were soon outnumbered by Israeli soldiers.

Where is this stated policy? The Israeli got that land after a treaty ending the war the Arabs started against them. The Treaty was to solidify Israeli borders, since, as it turns out, this border wasn't easy to defend: http://www.thenagain.info... (they have the white land.)

Ben-Gurion, Israel's Prime Minister, stated, "after we become a strong force, as a result of the creation of a state, we shall abolish partition and expand into the whole of Palestine". This sentiment was echoed across Israel, and they did what they said they would.

Israel wasn't granted any land after the 1948 war. The 1949 cease-fire brokered by the UN only ordered the belligerent states to withdraw to "armistice lines" to cease hostilities. They stated that these boundaries weren't considered legal or binding. Both the Arab states and Israel agreed at the time, as the Arabs wanted to reconquer the land stolen by Israel, while Israel wanted to conquer even more land (which they did in 1967). The land conquered by Israel in 1948 wasn't recognized legally until post-1967.

Why are you here?
Tsar of DDO
HPWKA
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2/19/2014 10:12:00 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Why are you here?

Somebody posted a topic asking for opinions about the Israel-Palestine peace-process, so I gave mine. People directly responded/questioned me, so I replied.

Why are you here?
Feelings are the fleeting fancy of fools.
The search for truth in a world of lies is the only thing that matters.
YYW
Posts: 36,287
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2/19/2014 10:31:48 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/19/2014 10:12:00 PM, HPWKA wrote:
Why are you here?

Somebody posted a topic asking for opinions about the Israel-Palestine peace-process, so I gave mine. People directly responded/questioned me, so I replied.

Why are you here?

Do you care about the Palestinian people?
Tsar of DDO
HPWKA
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2/19/2014 11:12:34 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/19/2014 10:56:54 PM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
Let the Jews have their state. There is one, ONE, Jewish state and how many Muslim states? Why deny the Jews their own state?

The Jews can have their state, just not on the West Bank, Gaza, or Jerusalem, as those locales belong to the Palestinian state. The number of Muslim states is irrelevant in the face of legality and morals.
Feelings are the fleeting fancy of fools.
The search for truth in a world of lies is the only thing that matters.
HPWKA
Posts: 401
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2/19/2014 11:13:31 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/19/2014 10:31:48 PM, YYW wrote:
At 2/19/2014 10:12:00 PM, HPWKA wrote:
Why are you here?

Somebody posted a topic asking for opinions about the Israel-Palestine peace-process, so I gave mine. People directly responded/questioned me, so I replied.

Why are you here?

Do you care about the Palestinian people?

I suppose.
Feelings are the fleeting fancy of fools.
The search for truth in a world of lies is the only thing that matters.
YYW
Posts: 36,287
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2/19/2014 11:25:31 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/19/2014 11:13:31 PM, HPWKA wrote:
At 2/19/2014 10:31:48 PM, YYW wrote:
At 2/19/2014 10:12:00 PM, HPWKA wrote:
Why are you here?

Somebody posted a topic asking for opinions about the Israel-Palestine peace-process, so I gave mine. People directly responded/questioned me, so I replied.

Why are you here?

Do you care about the Palestinian people?

I suppose.

Do you realize the reason they suffer?
Tsar of DDO
HPWKA
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2/19/2014 11:30:56 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Do you care about the Palestinian people?

I suppose.

Do you realize the reason they suffer?

Yes. They live under a brutal Israeli occupation denying them basic rights, while the little land they have left is slowly seized by Israel, to make way for illegal Jewish only settlements. When they resist, they are beaten, starved, tortured, and killed.
Feelings are the fleeting fancy of fools.
The search for truth in a world of lies is the only thing that matters.
YYW
Posts: 36,287
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2/19/2014 11:37:25 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/19/2014 11:30:56 PM, HPWKA wrote:
Do you care about the Palestinian people?

I suppose.

Do you realize the reason they suffer?

Yes. They live under a brutal Israeli occupation denying them basic rights, while the little land they have left is slowly seized by Israel, to make way for illegal Jewish only settlements. When they resist, they are beaten, starved, tortured, and killed.

Because Israel just has it out for innocent Palestinians?
Tsar of DDO
ConservativePolitico
Posts: 8,210
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2/19/2014 11:48:47 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/19/2014 11:12:34 PM, HPWKA wrote:
At 2/19/2014 10:56:54 PM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
Let the Jews have their state. There is one, ONE, Jewish state and how many Muslim states? Why deny the Jews their own state?

The Jews can have their state, just not on the West Bank, Gaza, or Jerusalem, as those locales belong to the Palestinian state. The number of Muslim states is irrelevant in the face of legality and morals.

What causes land to belong to one state or another? Because to me it looks like it belongs to the Jews.

Does Florida belong to the Seminole nation?
HPWKA
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2/19/2014 11:49:57 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Do you care about the Palestinian people?

I suppose.

Do you realize the reason they suffer?

Yes. They live under a brutal Israeli occupation denying them basic rights, while the little land they have left is slowly seized by Israel, to make way for illegal Jewish only settlements. When they resist, they are beaten, starved, tortured, and killed.

Because Israel just has it out for innocent Palestinians?

Yes, but not for the sake of it. This syndrome is one that has repeated itself many times throughout history. A strong power will subjugate a weak power to further its own national interests.

The national interest of Israel involves the acquisition of all the land they consider part of "historical Palestine", for incorporation into a Jewish State. Such a goal necessitates the expulsion, and when they resist, destruction, of as many Palestinians as it takes to secure the territory in question. The abuse of the Palestinians isn't the end for Israel, its the means.
Feelings are the fleeting fancy of fools.
The search for truth in a world of lies is the only thing that matters.
YYW
Posts: 36,287
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2/19/2014 11:54:02 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/19/2014 11:49:57 PM, HPWKA wrote:
Do you care about the Palestinian people?

I suppose.

Do you realize the reason they suffer?

Yes. They live under a brutal Israeli occupation denying them basic rights, while the little land they have left is slowly seized by Israel, to make way for illegal Jewish only settlements. When they resist, they are beaten, starved, tortured, and killed.

Because Israel just has it out for innocent Palestinians?

Yes, but not for the sake of it. This syndrome is one that has repeated itself many times throughout history. A strong power will subjugate a weak power to further its own national interests.

The national interest of Israel involves the acquisition of all the land they consider part of "historical Palestine", for incorporation into a Jewish State. Such a goal necessitates the expulsion, and when they resist, destruction, of as many Palestinians as it takes to secure the territory in question. The abuse of the Palestinians isn't the end for Israel, its the means.

Have you ever talked to, for example, anyone in Israel, ever, about anything?
Tsar of DDO
HPWKA
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2/19/2014 11:56:28 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
What causes land to belong to one state or another? Because to me it looks like it belongs to the Jews.

Does Florida belong to the Seminole nation?

When a people inhabit a land continually for hundreds/thousands of years, and their statehood is recognized internationally, I think the land belongs to them. No country or court in the world recognizes Israeli sovereignty over the West Bank, Gaza, or Jerusalem (except Israel), as this land was seized from the Palestinians through warfare, which is specifically prohibited by the UN, and all major cannons of morality.
Feelings are the fleeting fancy of fools.
The search for truth in a world of lies is the only thing that matters.
HPWKA
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2/19/2014 11:58:03 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Have you ever talked to, for example, anyone in Israel, ever, about anything?

Yes.
Feelings are the fleeting fancy of fools.
The search for truth in a world of lies is the only thing that matters.
bladerunner060
Posts: 7,126
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2/19/2014 11:58:49 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/19/2014 11:49:57 PM, HPWKA wrote:
Do you care about the Palestinian people?

I suppose.

Do you realize the reason they suffer?

Yes. They live under a brutal Israeli occupation denying them basic rights, while the little land they have left is slowly seized by Israel, to make way for illegal Jewish only settlements. When they resist, they are beaten, starved, tortured, and killed.

Because Israel just has it out for innocent Palestinians?

Yes, but not for the sake of it. This syndrome is one that has repeated itself many times throughout history. A strong power will subjugate a weak power to further its own national interests.

The national interest of Israel involves the acquisition of all the land they consider part of "historical Palestine", for incorporation into a Jewish State. Such a goal necessitates the expulsion, and when they resist, destruction, of as many Palestinians as it takes to secure the territory in question. The abuse of the Palestinians isn't the end for Israel, its the means.

[citation needed]
Assistant moderator to airmax1227. PM me with any questions or concerns!
HPWKA
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2/20/2014 12:06:15 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
The national interest of Israel involves the acquisition of all the land they consider part of "historical Palestine", for incorporation into a Jewish State. Such a goal necessitates the expulsion, and when they resist, destruction, of as many Palestinians as it takes to secure the territory in question. The abuse of the Palestinians isn't the end for Israel, its the means.

[citation needed]

Agreed, it should be up tomorrow barring any unexpected crisis.
Feelings are the fleeting fancy of fools.
The search for truth in a world of lies is the only thing that matters.