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Ukraine

PotBelliedGeek
Posts: 4,298
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2/22/2014 9:39:51 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
As of three minutes ago, the Ukrainian parliament voted to impeach president Victor Yanukovytch. Yanukovytch has announced that he will not step down or leave office. Thoughts or comments?
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Cermank
Posts: 3,773
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2/22/2014 10:23:49 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/22/2014 9:39:51 AM, PotBelliedGeek wrote:
As of three minutes ago, the Ukrainian parliament voted to impeach president Victor Yanukovytch. Yanukovytch has announced that he will not step down or leave office. Thoughts or comments?

Last I read, he had fleed Ukraine and there was complete anarchy over there, with people entering the presidents quarters and police just hanging around, wondering what to do. I can't help but think things are about to get a lot worse.
Bullish
Posts: 3,527
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2/22/2014 6:17:41 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Most Ukraineans don't want revolution. It is the sizable minority (about 40%) that want to impose their will. In 2009, 96% of Ukraineans had favor vale views of Russia. Although that's down to 70% [http://en.m.wikipedia.org...], that still doesn't mean most Ukrainean want to depose the leader. The rebel brand of "democracy" is nothing but hyped up mob rule.

No western media is reporting this, because of the detached views of "freedom" and "democracy" they have. Western superpowers can't be happier for the instability and weakening of the Rissian bloc this will have. Ukraine is democratic, the people have chosen Yanukovych, and the rebels are comparable to terrorists. This is an illegal coup.

Chaos, anarchy, default, economic collapse, looting, lawlessness will come out of this power vacuum. New elections will bring nothing new.
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Bullish
Posts: 3,527
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2/22/2014 6:22:12 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
I was just watching the American media's view on th coup. I won't name who, but they devoted a quarter of the program crticizing Yanukovych's "stately manner" that's actually smaller than the White House.

Slapping "democracy" on a terrorist coup sure sways opinions.
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charleslb
Posts: 4,740
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2/22/2014 7:15:29 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/22/2014 9:39:51 AM, PotBelliedGeek wrote:
As of three minutes ago, the Ukrainian parliament voted to impeach president Victor Yanukovytch. Yanukovytch has announced that he will not step down or leave office. Thoughts or comments?

Well, of course it depends on who and what party replaces him, but I think that the Ukraine will be better off once he's removed from office.
Yo, all of my subliterate conservative criticasters who find perusing and processing the sesquipedalian verbiage of my posts to be such a bothersome brain-taxing chore, I have a new nickname for you. Henceforth you shall be known as Pooh Bears. No, not for the obvious apt reasons, i.e., not because you're full of pooh, and not because of your ursine irritability. Rather, you put me in mind of an A.A. Milne quote, "I am a Bear of Very Little Brain, and long words bother me". Love ya, Pooh Bears.
bubbatheclown
Posts: 1,258
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2/22/2014 9:06:21 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
There hasn't been a good overthrow of a Government in our world since 1991. This revolt won't help solve matters in Ukraine. Maybe things will end up slightly better, but is it worth a bloody uprising? Ukraine's President would have to be one heck of a dictator for that to be worth it.

Just take the Arab Spring and the Invasion of Iraq, for instance; sure, a bunch of dictators who were in charge for 30 years were removed from power. But who replaced them? A bunch of Islamic extremists. Who replaced Mubarak? The Muslim Brotherhood, and now that they're off the throne the military's in charge. Who replaced Hussein? It was a democratic government for a while (and it still is), but Al-Qaeda is taking over. Who would've taken power had the government of Afghanistan been overthrown? The Taliban. Who's going to take charge in Syria if Assad is defeated? You guessed it: either Islamic extremist groups or the military.

For some reason, in recent years, revolutions have only been making matters worse instead of improving things.
charleslb
Posts: 4,740
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2/23/2014 2:11:54 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/22/2014 9:06:21 PM, bubbatheclown wrote:

Just take the Arab Spring and the Invasion of Iraq, for instance; sure, a bunch of dictators who were in charge for 30 years were removed from power. But who replaced them? A bunch of Islamic extremists. Who replaced Mubarak? The Muslim Brotherhood, and now that they're off the throne the military's in charge. Who replaced Hussein? It was a democratic government for a while (and it still is), but Al-Qaeda is taking over. Who would've taken power had the government of Afghanistan been overthrown? The Taliban. Who's going to take charge in Syria if Assad is defeated? You guessed it: either Islamic extremist groups or the military.

Egads man, I suggest that you give this post a read, http://www.debate.org...
Yo, all of my subliterate conservative criticasters who find perusing and processing the sesquipedalian verbiage of my posts to be such a bothersome brain-taxing chore, I have a new nickname for you. Henceforth you shall be known as Pooh Bears. No, not for the obvious apt reasons, i.e., not because you're full of pooh, and not because of your ursine irritability. Rather, you put me in mind of an A.A. Milne quote, "I am a Bear of Very Little Brain, and long words bother me". Love ya, Pooh Bears.
AnDoctuir
Posts: 11,060
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2/24/2014 8:24:28 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
It's the horizontal and vertical lining, the BAM, does a little dance at the end with the "R".
AnDoctuir
Posts: 11,060
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2/24/2014 8:32:29 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
It's interesting as regards recognition. I think I just figured out why Chinese writing fosters a greater intelligence.
AnDoctuir
Posts: 11,060
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2/24/2014 8:41:50 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
It's as though it would foster a more reflexive motor system, the English language being much more basic and compartmentalized. Anyone think I'm making sense? That "R" really did shake me, lol.
AnDoctuir
Posts: 11,060
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2/24/2014 8:52:28 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
And that'd be tied into why the East is martial arts and the west is things like boxing. Man, I'm smart.
NightofTheLivingCats
Posts: 2,294
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2/24/2014 9:08:08 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/24/2014 8:52:28 AM, AnDoctuir wrote:
And that'd be tied into why the East is martial arts and the west is things like boxing. Man, I'm smart.

Its really
AnDoctuir
Posts: 11,060
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2/24/2014 10:25:54 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/24/2014 10:14:50 AM, NightofTheLivingCats wrote:
At 2/24/2014 9:34:29 AM, AnDoctuir wrote:
It was a progression of thought, duh.

I am surprised you didn't break up yer post into 5 more.

What's this about?
NightofTheLivingCats
Posts: 2,294
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2/24/2014 10:26:53 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/24/2014 10:25:54 AM, AnDoctuir wrote:
At 2/24/2014 10:14:50 AM, NightofTheLivingCats wrote:
At 2/24/2014 9:34:29 AM, AnDoctuir wrote:
It was a progression of thought, duh.

I am surprised you didn't break up yer post into 5 more.

What's this about?

Im talking about how you talk in yer posts.
AnDoctuir
Posts: 11,060
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2/24/2014 10:27:39 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/24/2014 10:26:53 AM, NightofTheLivingCats wrote:
At 2/24/2014 10:25:54 AM, AnDoctuir wrote:
At 2/24/2014 10:14:50 AM, NightofTheLivingCats wrote:
At 2/24/2014 9:34:29 AM, AnDoctuir wrote:
It was a progression of thought, duh.

I am surprised you didn't break up yer post into 5 more.

What's this about?

Im talking about how you talk in yer posts.

Duh. Why?
AnDoctuir
Posts: 11,060
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2/24/2014 10:38:00 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
Does anyone know if such an association has been made before between Eastern writing styles and their martial arts? I think this is Nobel Prize stuff guys.
Juan_Pablo
Posts: 2,052
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2/24/2014 11:01:58 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/22/2014 9:39:51 AM, PotBelliedGeek wrote:
As of three minutes ago, the Ukrainian parliament voted to impeach president Victor Yanukovytch. Yanukovytch has announced that he will not step down or leave office. Thoughts or comments?

Ousted President Victor Yanukovytch should not attempt to further incite hostilities in the Ukraine. He was legally impeached in a vote that saw 95% of the country's Verkhovna Rada vote in favor of the decision; he needs to comply with this democratic order.

When he was elected he took an oath to be the Ukraine's President, not its dictator.
Juan_Pablo
Posts: 2,052
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2/24/2014 11:05:52 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/24/2014 11:01:58 AM, Juan_Pablo wrote:
At 2/22/2014 9:39:51 AM, PotBelliedGeek wrote:
As of three minutes ago, the Ukrainian parliament voted to impeach president Victor Yanukovytch. Yanukovytch has announced that he will not step down or leave office. Thoughts or comments?

Ousted President Victor Yanukovytch should not attempt to further incite hostilities in the Ukraine. He was legally impeached in a vote that saw 95% of the country's Verkhovna Rada vote in favor of the decision; he needs to comply with this democratic order.

When he was elected he took an oath to be the Ukraine's President, not its dictator.

Correction:

He was legally impeached in a vote that saw 95% of the country's attending Verkhovna Rada deputies vote in favor of the decision - which was still a majority and sufficient for his removal; he needs to comply with this democratic order.
rockwater
Posts: 273
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2/25/2014 5:29:30 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/22/2014 6:17:41 PM, Bullish wrote:
Most Ukraineans don't want revolution. It is the sizable minority (about 40%) that want to impose their will. In 2009, 96% of Ukraineans had favor vale views of Russia. Although that's down to 70% [http://en.m.wikipedia.org...], that still doesn't mean most Ukrainean want to depose the leader. The rebel brand of "democracy" is nothing but hyped up mob rule.

No western media is reporting this, because of the detached views of "freedom" and "democracy" they have. Western superpowers can't be happier for the instability and weakening of the Rissian bloc this will have. Ukraine is democratic, the people have chosen Yanukovych, and the rebels are comparable to terrorists. This is an illegal coup.

Chaos, anarchy, default, economic collapse, looting, lawlessness will come out of this power vacuum. New elections will bring nothing new.

I don't think any side in the conflict in Ukraine is innocent of wrong or completely jutified in all its actions.

But how is this a coup? A coup usually involves the military or part of the military overthrowing the government. Has this happened?

What percentage of the total number of members of parliament (not just of those present) voted in favor of impeaching Yanukovych? Was the number of members of parliament present too small to constitute a quorum? Was any member of parliament coerced to vote against their wishes? How did the vote to impeach Yanukovych take place in any way that was against the law and constitution of Ukraine?

I don't know the answers to these questions - but if someone does know, please tell us.
Bullish
Posts: 3,527
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2/25/2014 6:17:02 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/25/2014 5:29:30 PM, rockwater wrote:
At 2/22/2014 6:17:41 PM, Bullish wrote:
Most Ukraineans don't want revolution. It is the sizable minority (about 40%) that want to impose their will. In 2009, 96% of Ukraineans had favor vale views of Russia. Although that's down to 70% [http://en.m.wikipedia.org...], that still doesn't mean most Ukrainean want to depose the leader. The rebel brand of "democracy" is nothing but hyped up mob rule.

No western media is reporting this, because of the detached views of "freedom" and "democracy" they have. Western superpowers can't be happier for the instability and weakening of the Rissian bloc this will have. Ukraine is democratic, the people have chosen Yanukovych, and the rebels are comparable to terrorists. This is an illegal coup.

Chaos, anarchy, default, economic collapse, looting, lawlessness will come out of this power vacuum. New elections will bring nothing new.

I don't think any side in the conflict in Ukraine is innocent of wrong or completely jutified in all its actions.

Yanukovych was voted in fair and square. Despite former PM Tymoshenko's allegations that Yanukovych committed voting fraud, independent opinion polls show that Yanukovych is the clear predicted winner by a full 12 percentage points (63% more than the next candidate): http://en.m.wikipedia.org...
Sure, Yanukovych could have made some unpopular decisions, but if very time your leader did something you didn't like you throw a revolt, Obama would be deposed on Inauguration Day.

If you observe what happened in Ukraine, it was clearly the protesters who initiated violence. For the first few months, nothing but riot police were used. Some protesters decided to burn some stuff and throw bombs at the police, that's how violence started.

But how is this a coup? A coup usually involves the military or part of the military overthrowing the government. Has this happened?

Coup a in a minority over throwing a majority through unfair usurping. I'll admit coup is not the best word to describe this.

What percentage of the total number of members of parliament (not just of those present) voted in favor of impeaching Yanukovych? Was the number of members of parliament present too small to constitute a quorum? Was any member of parliament coerced to vote against their wishes? How did the vote to impeach Yanukovych take place in any way that was against the law and constitution of Ukraine?

The vote to impeach was around 328/336/450 ish, I believe. Plenty for it to be legal. But you have realize that the vote was held AFTER the violent protesters ousted the president. Any politician who votes against impeachment would be committing suicide.

I don't know the answers to these questions - but if someone does know, please tell us.
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Bullish
Posts: 3,527
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2/26/2014 5:39:41 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Kerry basically just said that he supports Ukrainean terrorists, but not Iranian terorists.

He also said Russia should respect Ukraine's territorial sovereignty. My blood boils when an American says this.
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