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The Crisis in Ukraine

PotBelliedGeek
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3/3/2014 8:45:14 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
This thread is dedicated to sharing and analyzing the latest events in Ukraine.

This thread is only for that purpose. Any other discussions, including tangents that stray from the topic at hand, will be KFC'd.
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XLAV
Posts: 13,710
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3/3/2014 8:52:55 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/3/2014 8:45:14 AM, PotBelliedGeek wrote:
This thread is dedicated to sharing and analyzing the latest events in Ukraine.

This thread is only for that purpose. Any other discussions, including tangents that stray from the topic at hand, will be KFC'd.

What is a good and reliable source that is up to date regarding the Ukraine situation?
PotBelliedGeek
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3/3/2014 8:55:35 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/3/2014 8:52:55 AM, XLAV wrote:
At 3/3/2014 8:45:14 AM, PotBelliedGeek wrote:
This thread is dedicated to sharing and analyzing the latest events in Ukraine.

This thread is only for that purpose. Any other discussions, including tangents that stray from the topic at hand, will be KFC'd.

What is a good and reliable source that is up to date regarding the Ukraine situation?

I get my info mostly from Al-Jazeera, The BBC, The New York Times, La Monde, and the Telegraph. Wired has an excellent update that was published just a half hour ago. I will try to get a number of links to post.
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PotBelliedGeek
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3/3/2014 9:46:31 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/3/2014 9:37:25 AM, slo1 wrote:
Good article on the legality of the Russian invasion.

http://www.newrepublic.com...

Excellent article, thank you.
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ararmer1919
Posts: 362
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3/3/2014 10:18:04 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
Have any of you checked out what the Russian news is reporting on this issue? Ho...Ly... Crap. I'm really at a loss of words on how to describe it.
Tophatdoc
Posts: 534
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3/4/2014 8:28:47 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
It appears a war may break out.

http://news.sky.com...

I would say that the Russian government was justified in invading Georgia(the Georgians started it). This invasion of the Ukraine is unacceptable; hopefully the EU acts considering this is a result of their interaction with Ukraine. Sanctions would be most appropriate.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk...
"Don't click on my profile. Don't send me friend requests. Don't read my debates. There are many interesting people on DDO. Find one of them. Go find someone exciting and loquacious. Go click on their profile. Go send them friend requests. Go read their debates. Leave me alone." -Tophatdoc
monty1
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3/4/2014 2:02:50 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Everybody should at least have both sides of the story. Not that you have to believe the following source but it's at least worth hearing it.

http://rt.com...
AnDoctuir
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3/4/2014 3:14:48 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
I haven't really looked into this at all, to be honest, but I think it's fascinating simply that this nebulous war, as far as I'm concerned, is even occurring. I made posts on here not too long ago about Russia imposing anti-gay laws only because the US was going in the opposite direction, which was basically reactance, in my opinion, the same psychological phenomenon that brings kids to be unruly in the face of plausibly unjustified authority. This, then, I think is the same, an invasion that takes its greatest momentum in that Russia wish to match the US on the world stage, not from economic considerations. Though, of course, I may be wrong, but in such a short space of time, absurdity to match absurdity, it seems a very distinct possibility. If the US get involved in this, it could escalate ridiculously. Not that they will, I don't think. But I recently saw RoyLatham suggesting that they should, or using this as an excuse to give out about Obama and his anti-war policy anyway. This looks like something that could actually blow the f*ck up.
AnDoctuir
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3/4/2014 3:17:58 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
US invade Syria, Russia throws a hissy fit. Russia says f*ck you US, invades Ukraine. Politics is f*cking retarded, it's hard to believe you can study it in college.
monty1
Posts: 1,084
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3/4/2014 3:33:26 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/4/2014 3:14:48 PM, AnDoctuir wrote:
I haven't really looked into this at all, to be honest, but I think it's fascinating simply that this nebulous war, as far as I'm concerned, is even occurring. I made posts on here not too long ago about Russia imposing anti-gay laws only because the US was going in the opposite direction, which was basically reactance, in my opinion, the same psychological phenomenon that brings kids to be unruly in the face of plausibly unjustified authority. This, then, I think is the same, an invasion that takes its greatest momentum in that Russia wish to match the US on the world stage, not from economic considerations. Though, of course, I may be wrong, but in such a short space of time, absurdity to match absurdity, it seems a very distinct possibility. If the US get involved in this, it could escalate ridiculously. Not that they will, I don't think. But I recently saw RoyLatham suggesting that they should, or using this as an excuse to give out about Obama and his anti-war policy anyway. This looks like something that could actually blow the f*ck up.

Ironic isn't it that the more modern and progressive people in the US are for gay rights while the more backward and less worldly and less progressive (in it's true sense) are like the majority of Russians are are still very homophobic.
AnDoctuir
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3/4/2014 3:38:55 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/4/2014 3:33:26 PM, monty1 wrote:
At 3/4/2014 3:14:48 PM, AnDoctuir wrote:
I haven't really looked into this at all, to be honest, but I think it's fascinating simply that this nebulous war, as far as I'm concerned, is even occurring. I made posts on here not too long ago about Russia imposing anti-gay laws only because the US was going in the opposite direction, which was basically reactance, in my opinion, the same psychological phenomenon that brings kids to be unruly in the face of plausibly unjustified authority. This, then, I think is the same, an invasion that takes its greatest momentum in that Russia wish to match the US on the world stage, not from economic considerations. Though, of course, I may be wrong, but in such a short space of time, absurdity to match absurdity, it seems a very distinct possibility. If the US get involved in this, it could escalate ridiculously. Not that they will, I don't think. But I recently saw RoyLatham suggesting that they should, or using this as an excuse to give out about Obama and his anti-war policy anyway. This looks like something that could actually blow the f*ck up.

Ironic isn't it that the more modern and progressive people in the US are for gay rights while the more backward and less worldly and less progressive (in it's true sense) are like the majority of Russians are are still very homophobic.

lol
Jonbonbon
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3/4/2014 3:39:37 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Just found this:

http://www.theblaze.com...
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Jifpop09
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3/4/2014 4:10:20 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
This is very bad. According to the research I have done, they are going to have a full occupation. They have been advancing into Georgia for about a decade, under the guise of fighting rebels.And this resurgence of Soviet nationalism is also pretty scary. They better leave or a lot of people are going to die soon.

A little off topic, many republicans are using the crisis to rbash on Obama for not being strong enough. What do they want, for us to invade?
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Jifpop09
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3/4/2014 4:16:54 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/4/2014 4:10:20 PM, Jifpop09 wrote:
This is very bad. According to the research I have done, they are going to have a full occupation. They have been advancing into Georgia for about a decade, under the guise of fighting rebels.And this resurgence of Soviet nationalism is also pretty scary. They better leave or a lot of people are going to die soon.

A little off topic, many republicans are using the crisis to rbash on Obama for not being strong enough. What do they want, for us to invade?

Thought this was interesting. I might post any videos that pop up on youtube.
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TrueScotsman
Posts: 515
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3/4/2014 4:29:12 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/3/2014 8:45:14 AM, PotBelliedGeek wrote:
This thread is dedicated to sharing and analyzing the latest events in Ukraine.

This thread is only for that purpose. Any other discussions, including tangents that stray from the topic at hand, will be KFC'd.

Beyond international sanctions I can't think of anything that we can do to put pressure on Russia to back down. A credible military threat isn't advisable nor is it realistic and it would probably look like Putin handing the Obama Administration another blow by subverting that.

The fact that there is a lot of support within Crimea from ethnic Russians and that they have important military establishments within the region makes it an easy target for a land grab, and in their eyes an opportune time to do it.

I don't see what real options we have of stopping them, and I am doubtful that Ukraine would be able to given the Russians military advantage in weaponry and manpower plus having the defensive advantage with difficult geographical terrain for the Ukrainian army to attack from.

Tough situation, but I wonder what others think as I have been on my honeymoon and haven't followed this one as closely as I would have liked to.
Jifpop09
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3/4/2014 4:41:21 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/4/2014 4:29:12 PM, TrueScotsman wrote:
At 3/3/2014 8:45:14 AM, PotBelliedGeek wrote:
This thread is dedicated to sharing and analyzing the latest events in Ukraine.

This thread is only for that purpose. Any other discussions, including tangents that stray from the topic at hand, will be KFC'd.

Beyond international sanctions I can't think of anything that we can do to put pressure on Russia to back down. A credible military threat isn't advisable nor is it realistic and it would probably look like Putin handing the Obama Administration another blow by subverting that.

The fact that there is a lot of support within Crimea from ethnic Russians and that they have important military establishments within the region makes it an easy target for a land grab, and in their eyes an opportune time to do it.

I don't see what real options we have of stopping them, and I am doubtful that Ukraine would be able to given the Russians military advantage in weaponry and manpower plus having the defensive advantage with difficult geographical terrain for the Ukrainian army to attack from.

Tough situation, but I wonder what others think as I have been on my honeymoon and haven't followed this one as closely as I would have liked to.

Did you hear about the military exercises off of Lithuania and Poland. It looks like Putin is forming a new USSR.
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ararmer1919
Posts: 362
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3/4/2014 4:49:45 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/4/2014 4:10:20 PM, Jifpop09 wrote:
This is very bad. According to the research I have done, they are going to have a full occupation. They have been advancing into Georgia for about a decade, under the guise of fighting rebels.And this resurgence of Soviet nationalism is also pretty scary. They better leave or a lot of people are going to die soon.

A little off topic, many republicans are using the crisis to rbash on Obama for not being strong enough. What do they want, for us to invade?

Yes. The reps are using this an an excuse but at the same time are they wrong? Has Obama not performed in a manner that has basically shutdown our international credibility? Any way to answer your question no, we shouldn't "invade". Who would we invade? We should at the very least however mobilize our forces into a stand-to as a show of force. Let Putin see that if he tries anything we are ready for him. Hell we could even go a little further and deploy some amount of forces to our fellow NATO nations in that region such as Poland or Lithuania. Let them know that we are watching and we are not going to stand for this.
Jifpop09
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3/4/2014 4:53:31 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/4/2014 4:49:45 PM, ararmer1919 wrote:
At 3/4/2014 4:10:20 PM, Jifpop09 wrote:
This is very bad. According to the research I have done, they are going to have a full occupation. They have been advancing into Georgia for about a decade, under the guise of fighting rebels.And this resurgence of Soviet nationalism is also pretty scary. They better leave or a lot of people are going to die soon.

A little off topic, many republicans are using the crisis to rbash on Obama for not being strong enough. What do they want, for us to invade?

Yes. The reps are using this an an excuse but at the same time are they wrong? Has Obama not performed in a manner that has basically shutdown our international credibility? Any way to answer your question no, we shouldn't "invade". Who would we invade? We should at the very least however mobilize our forces into a stand-to as a show of force. Let Putin see that if he tries anything we are ready for him. Hell we could even go a little further and deploy some amount of forces to our fellow NATO nations in that region such as Poland or Lithuania. Let them know that we are watching and we are not going to stand for this.

Regardless of the course of action, they are only dividing are country.
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STALIN
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3/4/2014 5:00:30 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/3/2014 9:46:31 AM, PotBelliedGeek wrote:
At 3/3/2014 9:37:25 AM, slo1 wrote:
Good article on the legality of the Russian invasion.

http://www.newrepublic.com...

Excellent article, thank you.

Ye I also read that article. It was rather interesting.
Tophatdoc
Posts: 534
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3/4/2014 5:20:48 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/4/2014 4:10:20 PM, Jifpop09 wrote:
This is very bad. According to the research I have done, they are going to have a full occupation. They have been advancing into Georgia for about a decade, under the guise of fighting rebels.And this resurgence of Soviet nationalism is also pretty scary. They better leave or a lot of people are going to die soon.

A little off topic, many republicans are using the crisis to rbash on Obama for not being strong enough. What do they want, for us to invade?

Obama has had a horrible foreign policy. US interests have been hurt by his administration too many times(Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya, Syria). Too many of our allies are upset with the United States for the lack of decisiveness. The only thing I can recall one thing Obama did right in terms of foreign policy that was when he sided with the protestors in Egypt instead of the Mubarak regime.
"Don't click on my profile. Don't send me friend requests. Don't read my debates. There are many interesting people on DDO. Find one of them. Go find someone exciting and loquacious. Go click on their profile. Go send them friend requests. Go read their debates. Leave me alone." -Tophatdoc
Jifpop09
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3/4/2014 5:21:35 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/4/2014 5:20:48 PM, Tophatdoc wrote:
At 3/4/2014 4:10:20 PM, Jifpop09 wrote:
This is very bad. According to the research I have done, they are going to have a full occupation. They have been advancing into Georgia for about a decade, under the guise of fighting rebels.And this resurgence of Soviet nationalism is also pretty scary. They better leave or a lot of people are going to die soon.

A little off topic, many republicans are using the crisis to rbash on Obama for not being strong enough. What do they want, for us to invade?

Obama has had a horrible foreign policy. US interests have been hurt by his administration too many times(Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya, Syria). Too many of our allies are upset with the United States for the lack of decisiveness. The only thing I can recall one thing Obama did right in terms of foreign policy that was when he sided with the protestors in Egypt instead of the Mubarak regime.

Key to Success: DON'T GET INVOLVED
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Tophatdoc
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3/4/2014 5:22:40 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/4/2014 5:21:35 PM, Jifpop09 wrote:

Key to Success: DON'T GET INVOLVED

How is it success if the Ukrainian government falls?
"Don't click on my profile. Don't send me friend requests. Don't read my debates. There are many interesting people on DDO. Find one of them. Go find someone exciting and loquacious. Go click on their profile. Go send them friend requests. Go read their debates. Leave me alone." -Tophatdoc
Jifpop09
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3/4/2014 5:24:25 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/4/2014 5:22:40 PM, Tophatdoc wrote:
At 3/4/2014 5:21:35 PM, Jifpop09 wrote:

Key to Success: DON'T GET INVOLVED

How is it success if the Ukrainian government falls?

As if we should make any intervention on our own, then no. All interventions should be facilitated through NATO or the UN, kind of like Afghanistan.
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TrueScotsman
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3/4/2014 5:31:06 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/4/2014 4:41:21 PM, Jifpop09 wrote:
At 3/4/2014 4:29:12 PM, TrueScotsman wrote:
At 3/3/2014 8:45:14 AM, PotBelliedGeek wrote:
This thread is dedicated to sharing and analyzing the latest events in Ukraine.

This thread is only for that purpose. Any other discussions, including tangents that stray from the topic at hand, will be KFC'd.

Beyond international sanctions I can't think of anything that we can do to put pressure on Russia to back down. A credible military threat isn't advisable nor is it realistic and it would probably look like Putin handing the Obama Administration another blow by subverting that.

The fact that there is a lot of support within Crimea from ethnic Russians and that they have important military establishments within the region makes it an easy target for a land grab, and in their eyes an opportune time to do it.

I don't see what real options we have of stopping them, and I am doubtful that Ukraine would be able to given the Russians military advantage in weaponry and manpower plus having the defensive advantage with difficult geographical terrain for the Ukrainian army to attack from.

Tough situation, but I wonder what others think as I have been on my honeymoon and haven't followed this one as closely as I would have liked to.

Did you hear about the military exercises off of Lithuania and Poland. It looks like Putin is forming a new USSR.

If he attempted to go beyond the Crimea then there would be military intervention, there is no way the West would allow that to happen.
Tophatdoc
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3/4/2014 5:32:02 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/4/2014 5:24:25 PM, Jifpop09 wrote:
At 3/4/2014 5:22:40 PM, Tophatdoc wrote:
At 3/4/2014 5:21:35 PM, Jifpop09 wrote:

Key to Success: DON'T GET INVOLVED

How is it success if the Ukrainian government falls?

As if we should make any intervention on our own, then no. All interventions should be facilitated through NATO or the UN, kind of like Afghanistan.

Certainly not, that will be far too late and have disastrous results. Multilateralism has been proven to be indecisive and help arrives far too late usually. Do we forget Rwanda? There are numerous of other actions where multilateralism has proven to be of no use. The United States has carried the burden of every major NATO action.

Plus on top of all of that the United States in particular is bound to an agreement with Ukraine as well. To not interfere shows cowardice and reduces US hegemony. I am not urging for military action, let me be clear. But not to do anything at all is unacceptable.
"Don't click on my profile. Don't send me friend requests. Don't read my debates. There are many interesting people on DDO. Find one of them. Go find someone exciting and loquacious. Go click on their profile. Go send them friend requests. Go read their debates. Leave me alone." -Tophatdoc