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Illegal immigration

lannan13
Posts: 23,065
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3/5/2014 4:05:24 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/5/2014 4:03:22 PM, Actionsspeak wrote:
I would like to discuss this, and will start by list a comedic poll to open up about this issue.
http://www.debate.org...

My opinion has been added.
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If the sky's the limit then why do we have footprints on the Moon? I'm shooting my aspirations for the stars.

"If you are going through hell, keep going." "Sir Winston Churchill

"No one can make you feel inferior without your consent." "Eleanor Roosevelt

Topics I want to debate. (http://tinyurl.com...)
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lannan13
Posts: 23,065
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3/5/2014 4:05:51 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/5/2014 4:03:22 PM, Actionsspeak wrote:
I would like to discuss this, and will start by list a comedic poll to open up about this issue.
http://www.debate.org...

You know you should put this in the funny or the misc. forum?
-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-Lannan13'S SIGNATURE-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-

If the sky's the limit then why do we have footprints on the Moon? I'm shooting my aspirations for the stars.

"If you are going through hell, keep going." "Sir Winston Churchill

"No one can make you feel inferior without your consent." "Eleanor Roosevelt

Topics I want to debate. (http://tinyurl.com...)
-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~
Actionsspeak
Posts: 185
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3/5/2014 4:15:17 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/5/2014 4:05:51 PM, lannan13 wrote:
At 3/5/2014 4:03:22 PM, Actionsspeak wrote:
I would like to discuss this, and will start by list a comedic poll to open up about this issue.
http://www.debate.org...

You know you should put this in the funny or the misc. forum?

I mean for their to be a serious discussion that takes place, but it's easy to start with a joke, especially on the most emotional discussioms.
ADreamOfLiberty
Posts: 1,570
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3/6/2014 4:21:54 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
It should be legal immigration. What right do you have to keep people out of a large region of the earth?
LOL, yeah, it's pretty amazing how they think they can "reason" with you. - Sidewalker, speaking of advocates for sexual deviancy.

So, my advice, Liberty, is to go somewhere else. Leave, and never come back. - YYW

And that's what I did. Contact me at http://www.edeb8.com... by the same user name if you have anything you'd like to say.
Actionsspeak
Posts: 185
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3/6/2014 9:03:49 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/6/2014 4:21:54 AM, ADreamOfLiberty wrote:
It should be legal immigration. What right do you have to keep people out of a large region of the earth?

Exactly
monty1
Posts: 1,084
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3/6/2014 11:59:38 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
The Republicans are caught with their heads up their asses on this one. They want the cheap labour and the US needs it because too many businesses aren't viable anymore when they hire Americans and have to pay them a higher wage. Illegals are the only people they can cheat out of a decent wage and further not have to pay benefits or even acknowledge them for tax purposes.

Expect the debate to continue for many years to come. Expect a lot of whining too as Americans are sidestepped for illegals who are nothing more than cheap slave labour.
Installgentoo
Posts: 1,420
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3/6/2014 8:53:33 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/6/2014 4:21:54 AM, ADreamOfLiberty wrote:
It should be legal immigration. What right do you have to keep people out of a large region of the earth?

You have a right to keep criminals and violent people out of anywhere.
ADreamOfLiberty
Posts: 1,570
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3/6/2014 8:59:42 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/6/2014 11:59:38 AM, monty1 wrote:
The Republicans are caught with their heads up their asses on this one. They want the cheap labour and the US needs it because too many businesses aren't viable anymore when they hire Americans and have to pay them a higher wage. Illegals are the only people they can cheat out of a decent wage and further not have to pay benefits or even acknowledge them for tax purposes.

Only the ones who support minimum wages.

At 3/6/2014 8:53:33 PM, Installgentoo wrote:
At 3/6/2014 4:21:54 AM, ADreamOfLiberty wrote:
It should be legal immigration. What right do you have to keep people out of a large region of the earth?

You have a right to keep criminals and violent people out of anywhere.

Sure, but we both know 99% aren't criminals or particularly violent.
LOL, yeah, it's pretty amazing how they think they can "reason" with you. - Sidewalker, speaking of advocates for sexual deviancy.

So, my advice, Liberty, is to go somewhere else. Leave, and never come back. - YYW

And that's what I did. Contact me at http://www.edeb8.com... by the same user name if you have anything you'd like to say.
Juris_Naturalis
Posts: 273
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3/9/2014 7:24:10 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/6/2014 8:59:42 PM, ADreamOfLiberty wrote:
At 3/6/2014 11:59:38 AM, monty1 wrote:
The Republicans are caught with their heads up their asses on this one. They want the cheap labour and the US needs it because too many businesses aren't viable anymore when they hire Americans and have to pay them a higher wage. Illegals are the only people they can cheat out of a decent wage and further not have to pay benefits or even acknowledge them for tax purposes.

Only the ones who support minimum wages.

At 3/6/2014 8:53:33 PM, Installgentoo wrote:
At 3/6/2014 4:21:54 AM, ADreamOfLiberty wrote:
It should be legal immigration. What right do you have to keep people out of a large region of the earth?

You have a right to keep criminals and violent people out of anywhere.

Sure, but we both know 99% aren't criminals or particularly violent.

Seeing as how all of them broke the law, yeah they're all criminals and should be treated as such. You might want to look up how Mexico treats their illegal citizens before you hop on the sympathy bandwagon.
ADreamOfLiberty
Posts: 1,570
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3/9/2014 7:30:01 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/9/2014 7:24:10 AM, Juris_Naturalis wrote:
At 3/6/2014 8:59:42 PM, ADreamOfLiberty wrote:
At 3/6/2014 8:53:33 PM, Installgentoo wrote:
At 3/6/2014 4:21:54 AM, ADreamOfLiberty wrote:
It should be legal immigration. What right do you have to keep people out of a large region of the earth?

You have a right to keep criminals and violent people out of anywhere.

Sure, but we both know 99% aren't criminals or particularly violent.


Seeing as how all of them broke the law, yeah they're all criminals and should be treated as such.

I do not care about breaking unjust laws.

(1) Eating ice cream is against the law.
(2) Eating ice cream should be illegal because only criminals eat ice cream.
(3) They aren't criminals.
(4) Yes they are they ate ice cream.

You might want to look up how Mexico treats their illegal citizens before you hop on the sympathy bandwagon.

What an odd comment, what does Mexico's violation of rights have to do with what the law should be?
LOL, yeah, it's pretty amazing how they think they can "reason" with you. - Sidewalker, speaking of advocates for sexual deviancy.

So, my advice, Liberty, is to go somewhere else. Leave, and never come back. - YYW

And that's what I did. Contact me at http://www.edeb8.com... by the same user name if you have anything you'd like to say.
Juris_Naturalis
Posts: 273
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3/9/2014 7:55:25 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/9/2014 7:30:01 AM, ADreamOfLiberty wrote:
At 3/9/2014 7:24:10 AM, Juris_Naturalis wrote:
At 3/6/2014 8:59:42 PM, ADreamOfLiberty wrote:
At 3/6/2014 8:53:33 PM, Installgentoo wrote:
At 3/6/2014 4:21:54 AM, ADreamOfLiberty wrote:
It should be legal immigration. What right do you have to keep people out of a large region of the earth?

You have a right to keep criminals and violent people out of anywhere.

Sure, but we both know 99% aren't criminals or particularly violent.


Seeing as how all of them broke the law, yeah they're all criminals and should be treated as such.

I do not care about breaking unjust laws.

(1) Eating ice cream is against the law.
(2) Eating ice cream should be illegal because only criminals eat ice cream.
(3) They aren't criminals.
(4) Yes they are they ate ice cream.

You might want to look up how Mexico treats their illegal citizens before you hop on the sympathy bandwagon.

What an odd comment, what does Mexico's violation of rights have to do with what the law should be?

That analogy doesn't even describe the illegal immigration problem at all. That's just a low brow attempt to make it look petty. You have no right to saw what laws are unjust. What's your real name, Supreme Court? I could say that I can steal anything I want because I want things and stealing is an unjust law and I have such a hard life so I'm entitled to it. And you're just a big meanie for telling me no.

They don't violate rights necessarily, but they can't own property, can't join the military, have higher taxes and all job opportunities are given to born-citizens first. And that's just legal immigration. Illegal immigration is a felony. If you ask me, I like that model.
ADreamOfLiberty
Posts: 1,570
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3/9/2014 8:29:48 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/9/2014 7:55:25 AM, Juris_Naturalis wrote:
That analogy doesn't even describe the illegal immigration problem at all.

It describes the circularity of calling immigrants criminals for immigrating.

You have no right to say what laws are unjust.

I have every right.

I could say that I can steal anything I want because I want things and stealing is an unjust law and I have such a hard life so I'm entitled to it.

You could say it, but you would be wrong. The Supreme Court could say it, but they'd be wrong.

They don't violate rights necessarily, but they can't own property, can't join the military, have higher taxes and all job opportunities are given to born-citizens first. And that's just legal immigration.

What in the world are you talking about, I am getting an evil vibe from it.

Illegal immigration is a felony. If you ask me, I like that model.

I don't.

@YYW hey I am about to advocate for a felony on a site with minors again.

Immigration law is unjust. Calling walking a felony is a mockery of justice.
LOL, yeah, it's pretty amazing how they think they can "reason" with you. - Sidewalker, speaking of advocates for sexual deviancy.

So, my advice, Liberty, is to go somewhere else. Leave, and never come back. - YYW

And that's what I did. Contact me at http://www.edeb8.com... by the same user name if you have anything you'd like to say.
ZenoCitium
Posts: 184
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3/9/2014 8:56:58 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
I agree with Juris. We should also consider the immigrants that entered the US legally. There is a correct and lawful way to enter the US and this should not be ignored. I despise the term "undocumented immigrant". It is a spin term. When an immigrant enters the country illegally they are breaking the law and should be called illegal.

@ADreamOfLiberty: Please explain why you believe having immigrants enter the US through the legal process is unjust? Also, I would love to hear why you condone breaking laws that you feel are unjust.

@Monty1: Also, in response to an early comment on the republicans wanting cheap labor - I think you are being very naive and you are simplifying the situation quite a bit. If we pretended that this situation was that simple we could say that Democrats, who repeatedly vote against a stronger border, benefit from the votes of illegal immigrant families and as such promote weak immigration control. Also, since they repeatedly worked on removing the requirement of presenting proof of citizenship at voter booths they are promoting voter fraud in order to increase the democrat party votes in elections.
ClassicRobert
Posts: 2,487
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3/9/2014 9:59:28 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/9/2014 7:55:25 AM, Juris_Naturalis wrote:
At 3/9/2014 7:30:01 AM, ADreamOfLiberty wrote:
At 3/9/2014 7:24:10 AM, Juris_Naturalis wrote:
At 3/6/2014 8:59:42 PM, ADreamOfLiberty wrote:
At 3/6/2014 8:53:33 PM, Installgentoo wrote:
At 3/6/2014 4:21:54 AM, ADreamOfLiberty wrote:
It should be legal immigration. What right do you have to keep people out of a large region of the earth?

You have a right to keep criminals and violent people out of anywhere.

Sure, but we both know 99% aren't criminals or particularly violent.


Seeing as how all of them broke the law, yeah they're all criminals and should be treated as such.

I do not care about breaking unjust laws.

(1) Eating ice cream is against the law.
(2) Eating ice cream should be illegal because only criminals eat ice cream.
(3) They aren't criminals.
(4) Yes they are they ate ice cream.

You might want to look up how Mexico treats their illegal citizens before you hop on the sympathy bandwagon.

What an odd comment, what does Mexico's violation of rights have to do with what the law should be?

That analogy doesn't even describe the illegal immigration problem at all. That's just a low brow attempt to make it look petty. You have no right to saw what laws are unjust. What's your real name, Supreme Court? I could say that I can steal anything I want because I want things and stealing is an unjust law and I have such a hard life so I'm entitled to it. And you're just a big meanie for telling me no.

If a person moves to another country to improve their quality of life and feed their families, but they haven't gone through the proper, legal process, who have they harmed? What victim is there to make that person a felon worthy of punishment?
Debate me: Economic decision theory should be adjusted to include higher-order preferences for non-normative purposes http://www.debate.org...

Do you really believe that? Or not? If you believe it, you should man up and defend it in a debate. -RoyLatham

My Pet Fish is such a Douche- NiamC

It's an app to meet friends and stuff, sort of like an adult club penguin- Thett3, describing Tinder
Juris_Naturalis
Posts: 273
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3/9/2014 12:17:04 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/9/2014 8:29:48 AM, ADreamOfLiberty wrote:
At 3/9/2014 7:55:25 AM, Juris_Naturalis wrote:

It describes the circularity of calling immigrants criminals for immigrating.

If we were talking about legal immigrants, which we're not.

You have no right to say what laws are unjust.

I have every right.

I mis-worded that. What I meant was, just because you don't like a law, doesn't give you the right to break it.



You could say it, but you would be wrong. The Supreme Court could say it, but they'd be wrong.

This also applies to immigration. They can cross the border, but it's a crime.

They don't violate rights necessarily, but they can't own property, can't join the military, have higher taxes and all job opportunities are given to born-citizens first. And that's just legal immigration.

What in the world are you talking about, I am getting an evil vibe from it.

That's the Mexican model of immigration. Although I did paraphrase it.

Illegal immigration is a felony. If you ask me, I like that model.

I don't.

I don't care.

@YYW hey I am about to advocate for a felony on a site with minors again.

Immigration law is unjust. Calling walking a felony is a mockery of justice.

You have yet to prove how it is unjust.
Juris_Naturalis
Posts: 273
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3/9/2014 12:19:03 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/9/2014 9:59:28 AM, ClassicRobert wrote:
At 3/9/2014 7:55:25 AM, Juris_Naturalis wrote:
At 3/9/2014 7:30:01 AM, ADreamOfLiberty wrote:
At 3/9/2014 7:24:10 AM, Juris_Naturalis wrote:
At 3/6/2014 8:59:42 PM, ADreamOfLiberty wrote:
At 3/6/2014 8:53:33 PM, Installgentoo wrote:
At 3/6/2014 4:21:54 AM, ADreamOfLiberty wrote:
It should be legal immigration. What right do you have to keep people out of a large region of the earth?

You have a right to keep criminals and violent people out of anywhere.

Sure, but we both know 99% aren't criminals or particularly violent.


Seeing as how all of them broke the law, yeah they're all criminals and should be treated as such.

I do not care about breaking unjust laws.

(1) Eating ice cream is against the law.
(2) Eating ice cream should be illegal because only criminals eat ice cream.
(3) They aren't criminals.
(4) Yes they are they ate ice cream.

You might want to look up how Mexico treats their illegal citizens before you hop on the sympathy bandwagon.

What an odd comment, what does Mexico's violation of rights have to do with what the law should be?

That analogy doesn't even describe the illegal immigration problem at all. That's just a low brow attempt to make it look petty. You have no right to saw what laws are unjust. What's your real name, Supreme Court? I could say that I can steal anything I want because I want things and stealing is an unjust law and I have such a hard life so I'm entitled to it. And you're just a big meanie for telling me no.

If a person moves to another country to improve their quality of life and feed their families, but they haven't gone through the proper, legal process, who have they harmed? What victim is there to make that person a felon worthy of punishment?

The victim is the rule of law and the society they enter illegally. All illegal immigrants should be deported simply on the basis of law. Telling people they can break the law to make their lives better is walking a very fine line my friend.
monty1
Posts: 1,084
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3/9/2014 12:38:20 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/9/2014 8:56:58 AM, ZenoCitium wrote:

@Monty1: Also, in response to an early comment on the republicans wanting cheap labor - I think you are being very naive and you are simplifying the situation quite a bit. If we pretended that this situation was that simple we could say that Democrats, who repeatedly vote against a stronger border, benefit from the votes of illegal immigrant families and as such promote weak immigration control. Also, since they repeatedly worked on removing the requirement of presenting proof of citizenship at voter booths they are promoting voter fraud in order to increase the democrat party votes in elections.

There probably is a faction within the Dems who think they will benefit from illegals with votes. I wouldn't discount that either. But that doesn't negate the fact that illegals are needed to supply labour to businesses that aren't viable if they can't employ illegals and their children. And indeed, I'll admit that some businesses could be viable paying the minimum wage but it would cut into profits too much to be acceptable to business owners.

The illegality crying is just total bullsh-t. The situation won't be resolved for many years to come. How about you offer some real reasons why both sides are preventing it from happening.
monty1
Posts: 1,084
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3/9/2014 12:40:05 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/9/2014 8:56:58 AM, ZenoCitium wrote:

@Monty1: Also, in response to an early comment on the republicans wanting cheap labor - I think you are being very naive and you are simplifying the situation quite a bit. If we pretended that this situation was that simple we could say that Democrats, who repeatedly vote against a stronger border, benefit from the votes of illegal immigrant families and as such promote weak immigration control. Also, since they repeatedly worked on removing the requirement of presenting proof of citizenship at voter booths they are promoting voter fraud in order to increase the democrat party votes in elections.



There probably is a faction within the Dems who think they will benefit from illegals with votes. I wouldn't discount that either. But that doesn't negate the fact that illegals are needed to supply labour to businesses that aren't viable if they can't employ illegals and their children. And indeed, I'll admit that some businesses could be viable paying the minimum wage but it would cut into profits too much to be acceptable to business owners.

The illegality crying is just total bullsh-t. The situation won't be resolved for many years to come. How about you offer some real reasons why both sides are preventing it from happening.
ZenoCitium
Posts: 184
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3/9/2014 12:40:17 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
@ClassicRobert: That is a very idealistic assertion (that all illegal immigrants enter this country to provide for their families and that there is no harm done by skirting the legal process for entrance into the US). Also you've ignored the underlying question: why do these immigrants feel the need enter outside of the legal process?

My opinion: it's very simply why some immigrants choose to enter the country illegally. The risk of getting caught (and the punishment) is much, much lower than the benefit. Put even more simply: when the consequence is relatively low, instant gratification will always win.

It's silly to think that only well respected, family oriented, hard working immigrant families are entering illegally. In reality, the visa process favors immigrants with extensive skills and education and immigrants that have family ties. The immigrants that have the longer wait times (and are probably more prone to enter illegally) don't have families in the US, have a criminal past, are uneducated and unskilled.

It's equally as silly to think no one is harmed. If this was true I don't think this would be as hot of a topic. The truth is that many people are hurt by illegal immigration. It hurts us financially, as they do not pay as much in taxes but reap the benefits in the form of education, medical benefits, food stamps, etc. Illegal immigration promotes crime. For one, business knowingly hire illegal immigrants and pay them "under the table", which is tax fraud. Also, illegal immigration has been tied to an increase in gang related crimes as well as prostitution and slavery. Lastly, the legal immigrants are the ones hurt the most for they enter the country abiding by it's laws, paying the taxes they are responsible for, and they work very hard for their American dream.
ADreamOfLiberty
Posts: 1,570
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3/9/2014 12:43:28 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/9/2014 8:56:58 AM, ZenoCitium wrote:
I agree with Juris. We should also consider the immigrants that entered the US legally. There is a correct and lawful way to enter the US and this should not be ignored.

If the correct and lawful way to enter was consistent with human rights there wouldn't be an illegal immigration problem. People would just show up on the border, wait 45 minutes while their police records are checked and they are cleared of dangerous diseases and then they would be on their way.

When an immigrant enters the country illegally they are breaking the law and should be called illegal.

Broken an unjust law. I have no trouble with saying 'illegal' because the law is so easily wrong it is not a moral condemnation.

@ADreamOfLiberty: Please explain why you believe having immigrants enter the US through the legal process is unjust?

That's not unjust presuming they want to come.

Also, I would love to hear why you condone breaking laws that you feel are unjust.

That's pretty self-explanatory. They are unjust thus they do not deserve to be followed.

At 3/9/2014 9:59:28 AM, ClassicRobert wrote:
If a person moves to another country to improve their quality of life and feed their families, but they haven't gone through the proper, legal process, who have they harmed? What victim is there to make that person a felon worthy of punishment?

There is none. When they get into it they basically say 'trading' that's right they are gona come here and vicisouly and relentlessly trade with the current residents. Oh horror TT_TT

BTW do you have a link for RoyLatham's quote in your signature?

At 3/9/2014 12:17:04 PM, Juris_Naturalis wrote:
I mis-worded that. What I meant was, just because you don't like a law, doesn't give you the right to break it.

That's true, but the law being a violator instead of protector of rights does.

This also applies to immigration. They can cross the border, but it's a crime.

It's a crime, but it shouldn't be; and you can't say it should because it's a crime.

They don't violate rights necessarily, but they can't own property, can't join the military, have higher taxes and all job opportunities are given to born-citizens first. And that's just legal immigration.

What in the world are you talking about, I am getting an evil vibe from it.

That's the Mexican model of immigration. Although I did paraphrase it.

Pretty nasty. Even worse than keeping people out of arbitrary borders.

@YYW hey I am about to advocate for a felony on a site with minors again.

Immigration law is unjust. Calling walking a felony is a mockery of justice.

You have yet to prove how it is unjust.

It is the use of force against those who have not initiated it. They are innocent of violating rights. Therefore their deportation is assault and kidnapping at best.

At 3/9/2014 12:19:03 PM, Juris_Naturalis wrote:
At 3/9/2014 9:59:28 AM, ClassicRobert wrote:
If a person moves to another country to improve their quality of life and feed their families, but they haven't gone through the proper, legal process, who have they harmed? What victim is there to make that person a felon worthy of punishment?

The victim is the rule of law and the society they enter illegally.

Textbook collectivism. Unable to produce finite violation of rights the collectivist resorts to the rights of an abstraction, totally independent of concrete individuals and reason.

All illegal immigrants should be deported simply on the basis of law.

The law is not a basis for moral action, it is moral action.

Telling people they can break the law to make their lives better is walking a very fine line my friend.

Only for the amoral.
LOL, yeah, it's pretty amazing how they think they can "reason" with you. - Sidewalker, speaking of advocates for sexual deviancy.

So, my advice, Liberty, is to go somewhere else. Leave, and never come back. - YYW

And that's what I did. Contact me at http://www.edeb8.com... by the same user name if you have anything you'd like to say.
ADreamOfLiberty
Posts: 1,570
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3/9/2014 12:53:53 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/9/2014 12:40:17 PM, ZenoCitium wrote:
Also you've ignored the underlying question: why do these immigrants feel the need enter outside of the legal process?

The legal process has immoral restrictions such as a max number of people per year, requirements to learn languages, history, etc..

It's equally as silly to think no one is harmed. If this was true I don't think this would be as hot of a topic.

I guess if this was 1930's Germany we should say its silly to think Jews aren't harming anyone, otherwise why is that such a hot topic?

People get notions in their head, very very irrational notions and they stick by them. You can identify these people because they avoid debate or debate fallaciously for a short time before quitting.

The truth is that many people are hurt by illegal immigration. It hurts us financially, as they do not pay as much in taxes but reap the benefits in the form of education, medical benefits, food stamps, etc.

They have no duty to give taxes, nor do 'we' have a duty to pay for their education, medical benefits, food stamps, etc... The problem you cite is not with immigration but immoral and irrational government structures which ignore the requirement for consent.

Illegal immigration promotes crime. For one, business knowingly hire illegal immigrants and pay them "under the table", which is tax fraud.

During prohibition illegal drinking promoted crime. Solution was to decriminalize.

Also, illegal immigration has been tied to an increase in gang related crimes as well as prostitution and slavery.

That's what happens when you force the normal people to ride behind gangs and thugs while paying for it by offering prostitutes and slaves.

Lastly, the legal immigrants are the ones hurt the most for they enter the country abiding by it's laws, paying the taxes they are responsible for, and they work very hard for their American dream.

How does entering the country and working very hard harm them? What does that have to do with illegal immigrants?
LOL, yeah, it's pretty amazing how they think they can "reason" with you. - Sidewalker, speaking of advocates for sexual deviancy.

So, my advice, Liberty, is to go somewhere else. Leave, and never come back. - YYW

And that's what I did. Contact me at http://www.edeb8.com... by the same user name if you have anything you'd like to say.
ZenoCitium
Posts: 184
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3/9/2014 12:55:22 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
The illegality crying is just total bullsh-t. The situation won't be resolved for many years to come. How about you offer some real reasons why both sides are preventing it from happening.

Most likely, congress just can't compromise on their vastly differing ideology. This is coupled by the fact that they have had higher priority battles waging just to keep the government funded.
Installgentoo
Posts: 1,420
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3/9/2014 12:56:55 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/6/2014 8:59:42 PM, ADreamOfLiberty wrote:

At 3/6/2014 8:53:33 PM, Installgentoo wrote:
At 3/6/2014 4:21:54 AM, ADreamOfLiberty wrote:
It should be legal immigration. What right do you have to keep people out of a large region of the earth?

You have a right to keep criminals and violent people out of anywhere.

Sure, but we both know 99% aren't criminals or particularly violent.

Yeah sure they're not, that's why they just randomly up and leave their countries with no paperwork whatsoever. They must just all be too forgetful to pack properly.
ADreamOfLiberty
Posts: 1,570
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3/9/2014 1:01:05 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/9/2014 12:56:55 PM, Installgentoo wrote:
At 3/6/2014 8:59:42 PM, ADreamOfLiberty wrote:

At 3/6/2014 8:53:33 PM, Installgentoo wrote:
At 3/6/2014 4:21:54 AM, ADreamOfLiberty wrote:
It should be legal immigration. What right do you have to keep people out of a large region of the earth?

You have a right to keep criminals and violent people out of anywhere.

Sure, but we both know 99% aren't criminals or particularly violent.

Yeah sure they're not, that's why they just randomly up and leave their countries with no paperwork whatsoever.

Actually that's best explained by the fact that no paperwork would do them any good.

They must just all be too forgetful to pack properly.

Actually a better explanation is the fact that they have almost nothing worth packing and it would slow them down as they steal across the border.
LOL, yeah, it's pretty amazing how they think they can "reason" with you. - Sidewalker, speaking of advocates for sexual deviancy.

So, my advice, Liberty, is to go somewhere else. Leave, and never come back. - YYW

And that's what I did. Contact me at http://www.edeb8.com... by the same user name if you have anything you'd like to say.
monty1
Posts: 1,084
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3/9/2014 1:07:18 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
The effort to prevent illegal immigration must be made to appear that it's a real and concerted effort, but it must not be allowed to become too successful. Far too many American businesses can't afford to pay Americans a decent wage and rely on illegals and slave labour wages to remain viable.

Neither side of politics wants to deal with this and that's why both sides keep on spinning their wheels.

To put it bluntly, the American economy is pretty well completely fukked up and it's not going to get any better for the poor and middle class. However, there's little doubt that the status quo on illegals is going to continue to enrich the very wealthy tremendously.

Americans just need to start thinking about lowering their expectations. Most of those nice products in the big grocery stores are not for you little folks, Think, bags of beans and bags of rice in bulk quantities. Ask a Mexican.
monty1
Posts: 1,084
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3/9/2014 1:08:48 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Question: Did my previous post help anybody to understand better? Or is it just too un-American to acknowledge that it's all true?
ZenoCitium
Posts: 184
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3/9/2014 1:11:16 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
The legal process has immoral restrictions such as a max number of people per year, requirements to learn languages, history, etc..


How is this restriction immortal? How is learning the language of America or learning American history immortal to include in the process to becoming an American? Were your teachers immoral to teach you English or to teach you our history?

I guess if this was 1930's Germany we should say its silly to think Jews aren't harming anyone, otherwise why is that such a hot topic?


Come again?

People get notions in their head, very very irrational notions and they stick by them. You can identify these people because they avoid debate or debate fallaciously for a short time before quitting.


I'm not sure what you are insinuating. Perhaps if I clarify: If no one was getting hurt no one would care about illegal immigration.

They have no duty to give taxes, nor do 'we' have a duty to pay for their education, medical benefits, food stamps, etc... The problem you cite is not with immigration but immoral and irrational government structures which ignore the requirement for consent.


Please clarify this notion please. Are you maintain that we should not pay taxes?

During prohibition illegal drinking promoted crime. Solution was to decriminalize.

.... so ..... are you saying that because they legalized drinking that the government should decriminalize any action that is linking to promoting crime?

That's what happens when you force the normal people to ride behind gangs and thugs while paying for it by offering prostitutes and slaves.


How are we forcing normal people to ride behind gangs?

How does entering the country and working very hard harm them? What does that have to do with illegal immigrants?

It's demoralizing to the legal immigrants.
Installgentoo
Posts: 1,420
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3/9/2014 1:12:12 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/9/2014 1:01:05 PM, ADreamOfLiberty wrote:
At 3/9/2014 12:56:55 PM, Installgentoo wrote:
At 3/6/2014 8:59:42 PM, ADreamOfLiberty wrote:

At 3/6/2014 8:53:33 PM, Installgentoo wrote:
At 3/6/2014 4:21:54 AM, ADreamOfLiberty wrote:
It should be legal immigration. What right do you have to keep people out of a large region of the earth?

You have a right to keep criminals and violent people out of anywhere.

Sure, but we both know 99% aren't criminals or particularly violent.

Yeah sure they're not, that's why they just randomly up and leave their countries with no paperwork whatsoever.

Well it would do them good because without proper documentation you can't become a citizen in America. People have to check you dont have a criminal record.