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Obama is Destroying America

Moroni23
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3/6/2014 4:50:05 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Whether or not he is doing it intentionally or unintentionally, Obama is destroying this country in a number of ways. Keep in mind I am an Independent.

1- Economically
2- Morally
3- Patriotically
4- Militaristically

This should be fun. I'd love to hear your thoughts. I'd also love to see if there are any politically educated, patriotic liberals who actually believe Obama has been good for our country. And your arguments for such a claim.

Steven Michael Anderson
EndarkenedRationalist
Posts: 14,201
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3/6/2014 4:51:05 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/6/2014 4:50:05 PM, Moroni23 wrote:
Whether or not he is doing it intentionally or unintentionally, Obama is destroying this country in a number of ways. Keep in mind I am an Independent.

1- Economically
2- Morally
3- Patriotically
4- Militaristically

This should be fun. I'd love to hear your thoughts. I'd also love to see if there are any politically educated, patriotic liberals who actually believe Obama has been good for our country. And your arguments for such a claim.

Steven Michael Anderson

I'm not a fan of Obama, but I'd love to hear how you think any of that is happening.
PotBelliedGeek
Posts: 4,298
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3/6/2014 5:06:21 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/6/2014 4:50:05 PM, Moroni23 wrote:
Whether or not he is doing it intentionally or unintentionally, Obama is destroying this country in a number of ways. Keep in mind I am an Independent.

1- Economically
2- Morally
3- Patriotically
4- Militaristically

This should be fun. I'd love to hear your thoughts. I'd also love to see if there are any politically educated, patriotic liberals who actually believe Obama has been good for our country. And your arguments for such a claim.

Steven Michael Anderson

I am by no means obama's biggest advocate, but I certainly don't see how he is destroying our country. To the contrary, I support his foreign policy.

But seeing as you are the one making the assertion, BOP is on you. Can you support these claims?
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Tophatdoc
Posts: 534
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3/6/2014 6:38:42 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/6/2014 4:50:05 PM, Moroni23 wrote:
Whether or not he is doing it intentionally or unintentionally, Obama is destroying this country in a number of ways. Keep in mind I am an Independent.

1- Economically
2- Morally
3- Patriotically
4- Militaristically

This should be fun. I'd love to hear your thoughts. I'd also love to see if there are any politically educated, patriotic liberals who actually believe Obama has been good for our country. And your arguments for such a claim.

Steven Michael Anderson

That is a bold claim you have made. How does one elected man in a liberal democracy have the capacity to destroy the country alone? Obama's executive orders? If so which one.

I would say that Obama is further encouraging the United States' decline if anything. I am certainly not happy with his domestic or foreign policies. I don't like his foreign policy because under his watch U.S. hegemony has declined. I don't like his domestic policies because I know that the American government was founded on negative rights not positive rights(Obamacare) which further leads into further confusion among the American masses about rights now. I may not like these policies but I wouldn't go so far as to say he is destroying the country.
"Don't click on my profile. Don't send me friend requests. Don't read my debates. There are many interesting people on DDO. Find one of them. Go find someone exciting and loquacious. Go click on their profile. Go send them friend requests. Go read their debates. Leave me alone." -Tophatdoc
VaLoR
Posts: 49
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3/6/2014 7:13:11 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/6/2014 4:50:05 PM, Moroni23 wrote:
Whether or not he is doing it intentionally or unintentionally, Obama is destroying this country in a number of ways. Keep in mind I am an Independent.

1- Economically
2- Morally
3- Patriotically
4- Militaristically

This should be fun. I'd love to hear your thoughts. I'd also love to see if there are any politically educated, patriotic liberals who actually believe Obama has been good for our country. And your arguments for such a claim.

Steven Michael Anderson

I agree to some extent. However, unemployment has steadily declined throughout his presidency after one of the worst recessions of all-time. We are also better off with Obama than any Republican. But it's kind of like being the tallest midget in the circus -- it's not saying much. His economic policies are still far too conservative. I can't say I am surprised, though. I voted third party both times because I expected as much.
Pitbull15
Posts: 479
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3/7/2014 12:08:42 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/6/2014 4:50:05 PM, Moroni23 wrote:
Whether or not he is doing it intentionally or unintentionally, Obama is destroying this country in a number of ways. Keep in mind I am an Independent.

1- Economically
2- Morally
3- Patriotically
4- Militaristically

This should be fun. I'd love to hear your thoughts. I'd also love to see if there are any politically educated, patriotic liberals who actually believe Obama has been good for our country. And your arguments for such a claim.

Steven Michael Anderson

As bold as these claims are, I think they're right. Obama has done far more bad than good for this country, and the fact that he got re-elected (Even after trying to change the Constitution for that sole purpose!) and that he's not impeach speaks volumes about how pathetic and lazy many of the people in this country are. The main reason he even got elected was because he promised Obamacare and the whole "putting the middle class first" BS. Both of which were epic fails just like his whole presidency, regime and administration.

So I conclude that Obama blows harder than any other president ever and should step down. Let the fire begin.
zmikecuber and I debate the Modal Ontological Argument
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Khaos_Mage
Posts: 23,214
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3/7/2014 9:42:19 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/6/2014 6:38:42 PM, Tophatdoc wrote:
At 3/6/2014 4:50:05 PM, Moroni23 wrote:
Whether or not he is doing it intentionally or unintentionally, Obama is destroying this country in a number of ways. Keep in mind I am an Independent.

1- Economically
2- Morally
3- Patriotically
4- Militaristically

This should be fun. I'd love to hear your thoughts. I'd also love to see if there are any politically educated, patriotic liberals who actually believe Obama has been good for our country. And your arguments for such a claim.

Steven Michael Anderson

That is a bold claim you have made. How does one elected man in a liberal democracy have the capacity to destroy the country alone? Obama's executive orders? If so which one.

I would say that Obama is further encouraging the United States' decline if anything. I am certainly not happy with his domestic or foreign policies. I don't like his foreign policy because under his watch U.S. hegemony has declined. I don't like his domestic policies because I know that the American government was founded on negative rights not positive rights(Obamacare) which further leads into further confusion among the American masses about rights now. I may not like these policies but I wouldn't go so far as to say he is destroying the country.

Are you my conscience?
My work here is, finally, done.
slo1
Posts: 4,314
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3/7/2014 11:25:04 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/6/2014 4:50:05 PM, Moroni23 wrote:
Whether or not he is doing it intentionally or unintentionally, Obama is destroying this country in a number of ways. Keep in mind I am an Independent.

1- Economically
2- Morally
3- Patriotically
4- Militaristically

This should be fun. I'd love to hear your thoughts. I'd also love to see if there are any politically educated, patriotic liberals who actually believe Obama has been good for our country. And your arguments for such a claim.

Steven Michael Anderson

I can understand how you might argue 1 & 4. Morally I would guess has to do with being gay. What other than that? But what the f has he done to create the demise of Patriotism?
progressivedem22
Posts: 1,304
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3/7/2014 11:35:20 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/7/2014 12:08:42 AM, Pitbull15 wrote:
At 3/6/2014 4:50:05 PM, Moroni23 wrote:
Whether or not he is doing it intentionally or unintentionally, Obama is destroying this country in a number of ways. Keep in mind I am an Independent.

1- Economically
2- Morally
3- Patriotically
4- Militaristically

This should be fun. I'd love to hear your thoughts. I'd also love to see if there are any politically educated, patriotic liberals who actually believe Obama has been good for our country. And your arguments for such a claim.

Steven Michael Anderson

As bold as these claims are, I think they're right. Obama has done far more bad than good for this country, and the fact that he got re-elected (Even after trying to change the Constitution for that sole purpose!) and that he's not impeach speaks volumes about how pathetic and lazy many of the people in this country are. The main reason he even got elected was because he promised Obamacare and the whole "putting the middle class first" BS. Both of which were epic fails just like his whole presidency, regime and administration.

So I conclude that Obama blows harder than any other president ever and should step down. Let the fire begin.

He tried to change the Constitution? Please enlighten us all, because I wasn't aware of that.

And you claimed that "putting the middle class first" was BS. I agree with you. Obama has been far too conservative. But do you honestly think that Mittens would've been any better?

Also, explain to me, again, how ObamaCare has been an "epic fail." I see these broad-brush, unsubstantiated comments from all over, and it's truly stunning.
Tophatdoc
Posts: 534
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3/7/2014 11:50:59 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/7/2014 9:42:19 AM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
At 3/6/2014 6:38:42 PM, Tophatdoc wrote:
At 3/6/2014 4:50:05 PM, Moroni23 wrote:
Whether or not he is doing it intentionally or unintentionally, Obama is destroying this country in a number of ways. Keep in mind I am an Independent.

1- Economically
2- Morally
3- Patriotically
4- Militaristically

This should be fun. I'd love to hear your thoughts. I'd also love to see if there are any politically educated, patriotic liberals who actually believe Obama has been good for our country. And your arguments for such a claim.

Steven Michael Anderson

That is a bold claim you have made. How does one elected man in a liberal democracy have the capacity to destroy the country alone? Obama's executive orders? If so which one.

I would say that Obama is further encouraging the United States' decline if anything. I am certainly not happy with his domestic or foreign policies. I don't like his foreign policy because under his watch U.S. hegemony has declined. I don't like his domestic policies because I know that the American government was founded on negative rights not positive rights(Obamacare) which further leads into further confusion among the American masses about rights now. I may not like these policies but I wouldn't go so far as to say he is destroying the country.

Are you my conscience?

It appears we often agree.
"Don't click on my profile. Don't send me friend requests. Don't read my debates. There are many interesting people on DDO. Find one of them. Go find someone exciting and loquacious. Go click on their profile. Go send them friend requests. Go read their debates. Leave me alone." -Tophatdoc
PotBelliedGeek
Posts: 4,298
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3/7/2014 1:24:59 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/6/2014 6:38:42 PM, Tophatdoc wrote:
At 3/6/2014 4:50:05 PM, Moroni23 wrote:
Whether or not he is doing it intentionally or unintentionally, Obama is destroying this country in a number of ways. Keep in mind I am an Independent.

1- Economically
2- Morally
3- Patriotically
4- Militaristically

This should be fun. I'd love to hear your thoughts. I'd also love to see if there are any politically educated, patriotic liberals who actually believe Obama has been good for our country. And your arguments for such a claim.

Steven Michael Anderson

That is a bold claim you have made. How does one elected man in a liberal democracy have the capacity to destroy the country alone? Obama's executive orders? If so which one.

I would say that Obama is further encouraging the United States' decline if anything. I am certainly not happy with his domestic or foreign policies. I don't like his foreign policy because under his watch U.S. hegemony has declined. I don't like his domestic policies because I know that the American government was founded on negative rights not positive rights(Obamacare) which further leads into further confusion among the American masses about rights now. I may not like these policies but I wouldn't go so far as to say he is destroying the country.

Why is U.S. Hegemony a good thing?
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Khaos_Mage
Posts: 23,214
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3/7/2014 1:46:38 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/7/2014 1:24:59 PM, PotBelliedGeek wrote:

Why is U.S. Hegemony a good thing?

That is not what I thought it meant.
I thought he was talking about a cultural/political homogeneity. (thinking homogeny)
I, too, would like an explanation.
My work here is, finally, done.
Tophatdoc
Posts: 534
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3/7/2014 1:46:45 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/7/2014 1:24:59 PM, PotBelliedGeek wrote:

Why is U.S. Hegemony a good thing?

U.S. hegemony is a good thing in my opinion for a variety of reasons but I will keep it to one reason to be quick. The United States is the world's leading liberal democracy. I would prefer if a liberal democracy was leading the world rather than an authoritarian or tyrannical form of government. Whoever leads the world or a region influences the world's or a region's ideas. There is a reason why democracies and liberal democracies have become so popular in the last century, that reason is US hegemony. This has resulted in the slow but gradual acceptance of the concept of "rights."

The countries who have held the most hegemony over humanity's history has always been changing from the ancient days of Uruk to modern day America. I would prefer in today's time it be a liberal democracy that holds the most hegemony in the world. So US hegemony is a good thing in my opinion.
"Don't click on my profile. Don't send me friend requests. Don't read my debates. There are many interesting people on DDO. Find one of them. Go find someone exciting and loquacious. Go click on their profile. Go send them friend requests. Go read their debates. Leave me alone." -Tophatdoc
Tophatdoc
Posts: 534
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3/7/2014 2:22:31 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/7/2014 1:46:38 PM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
At 3/7/2014 1:24:59 PM, PotBelliedGeek wrote:

Why is U.S. Hegemony a good thing?

That is not what I thought it meant.
I thought he was talking about a cultural/political homogeneity. (thinking homogeny)
I, too, would like an explanation.

You must of posted a minute before I did because I didn't see your post. I was referring to US foreign policy when I mentioned hegemony. I explained it in my reply to PotBelliedGeek.
"Don't click on my profile. Don't send me friend requests. Don't read my debates. There are many interesting people on DDO. Find one of them. Go find someone exciting and loquacious. Go click on their profile. Go send them friend requests. Go read their debates. Leave me alone." -Tophatdoc
Khaos_Mage
Posts: 23,214
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3/7/2014 2:28:50 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/7/2014 2:22:31 PM, Tophatdoc wrote:
At 3/7/2014 1:46:38 PM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
At 3/7/2014 1:24:59 PM, PotBelliedGeek wrote:

Why is U.S. Hegemony a good thing?

That is not what I thought it meant.
I thought he was talking about a cultural/political homogeneity. (thinking homogeny)
I, too, would like an explanation.

You must of posted a minute before I did because I didn't see your post. I was referring to US foreign policy when I mentioned hegemony. I explained it in my reply to PotBelliedGeek.

7 seconds, actually ;)
My work here is, finally, done.
Pitbull15
Posts: 479
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3/7/2014 2:56:30 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/7/2014 11:35:20 AM, progressivedem22 wrote:
At 3/7/2014 12:08:42 AM, Pitbull15 wrote:
At 3/6/2014 4:50:05 PM, Moroni23 wrote:
Whether or not he is doing it intentionally or unintentionally, Obama is destroying this country in a number of ways. Keep in mind I am an Independent.

1- Economically
2- Morally
3- Patriotically
4- Militaristically

This should be fun. I'd love to hear your thoughts. I'd also love to see if there are any politically educated, patriotic liberals who actually believe Obama has been good for our country. And your arguments for such a claim.

Steven Michael Anderson

As bold as these claims are, I think they're right. Obama has done far more bad than good for this country, and the fact that he got re-elected (Even after trying to change the Constitution for that sole purpose!) and that he's not impeach speaks volumes about how pathetic and lazy many of the people in this country are. The main reason he even got elected was because he promised Obamacare and the whole "putting the middle class first" BS. Both of which were epic fails just like his whole presidency, regime and administration.

So I conclude that Obama blows harder than any other president ever and should step down. Let the fire begin.

He tried to change the Constitution? Please enlighten us all, because I wasn't aware of that.

http://www.hyscience.com...

Or more recently

http://www.renewamerica.com...
http://weeklyworldnews.com...

And you claimed that "putting the middle class first" was BS. I agree with you. Obama has been far too conservative. But do you honestly think that Mittens would've been any better?

Romney wouldn't have caused class envy like Obama did or tried to rewrite the Constitution.

Also, explain to me, again, how ObamaCare has been an "epic fail." I see these broad-brush, unsubstantiated comments from all over, and it's truly stunning.

Obamacare, for one, took forever to even get running. And second, I remember Obama promised us we had a choice over whether or not we could keep our old healthcare plan. But he went back on his word and said that it was mandatory.
zmikecuber and I debate the Modal Ontological Argument
http://www.debate.org...

"YOU ARE A TOTAL MORON!!! LOL!!!- invisibledeity

"I have shown incredible restraint in the face of unrelenting stupidity."-Izbo10

"Oh my God, WHO THE HELL CARES?!"-Peter Griffin

"Let me put this in Spanish for you: NO!!"-Jase Robertson
acchokiefan
Posts: 1
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3/7/2014 3:05:46 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
America is being destroyed. I did not think it was possible for him to save the nation after the grand TRAINWRECK that 8 Yeats of Bush left us in. Not all his fault. He has three others helping him. With a congress that's in place by the Cato Institute to weaken and even destroy the federal government, I would say that he is the best president ever. Never in history has there been such unrelenting attacks on another political and you betcha (wink) much of it is racial. The religious right (I'm a follower) has bought the complete Hokie-Dokie and turned them totally upside down. If you'd like to speak morals as a whole? Among the industrialized free world, 60% of the Pentecostal church is the ugliest, nastiest entity in it. Obama has made every effort to get healthcare to people, instead of letting them be ripped off. Red states want them to continue to be ripped off. I love in Tennessee. You want to see Unethical and immoral trash? Come and meet the Tennessee legislature. (Wife beaters, drunkards, drug dealers) and all they have to say to get elected is how much they HATE. Obama has held his head high while the slime at FOX news ( which is a 24 hours right winged PROPOGANDA entertainment channel) bends the news. There is a huge lie that is sweeping the earth and Obama is one of the most noble men in history. Past night, Rachel Maddow proved beyond measure that we went into Iraq for oil and revenge. Key people, including Colin Powell and people that just refuse to let the American people believe a lie and found it their duty to let the truth be known, stood up for what's right. THIS COUNTRY IS GOING DOWN. There's absolutely no question about it in my mind. I don't waste my time fighting it with time and money any longer. We will end up in civil war. That has been in "the works" for about ten years now. If, and only of you want to know a week ahead of time when the war is going to start. Watch for a mass exodus of the 1% who will leave to go abroad for a while. I'm not a 1%er, but me and my family are leaving too. I'll talk about it, but I won't spend money trying to save a nation that isn't worth saving anymore.
progressivedem22
Posts: 1,304
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3/7/2014 3:52:45 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/7/2014 2:56:30 PM, Pitbull15 wrote:
At 3/7/2014 11:35:20 AM, progressivedem22 wrote:
At 3/7/2014 12:08:42 AM, Pitbull15 wrote:
At 3/6/2014 4:50:05 PM, Moroni23 wrote:
Whether or not he is doing it intentionally or unintentionally, Obama is destroying this country in a number of ways. Keep in mind I am an Independent.

1- Economically
2- Morally
3- Patriotically
4- Militaristically

This should be fun. I'd love to hear your thoughts. I'd also love to see if there are any politically educated, patriotic liberals who actually believe Obama has been good for our country. And your arguments for such a claim.

Steven Michael Anderson

As bold as these claims are, I think they're right. Obama has done far more bad than good for this country, and the fact that he got re-elected (Even after trying to change the Constitution for that sole purpose!) and that he's not impeach speaks volumes about how pathetic and lazy many of the people in this country are. The main reason he even got elected was because he promised Obamacare and the whole "putting the middle class first" BS. Both of which were epic fails just like his whole presidency, regime and administration.

So I conclude that Obama blows harder than any other president ever and should step down. Let the fire begin.

He tried to change the Constitution? Please enlighten us all, because I wasn't aware of that.

http://www.hyscience.com...

Or more recently

http://www.renewamerica.com...
http://weeklyworldnews.com...

So the latter two are biased right-wing sources, and the first is an unattributed blog with no sources whatsoever -- which the first comment on the page calls BS. Nice.

And you claimed that "putting the middle class first" was BS. I agree with you. Obama has been far too conservative. But do you honestly think that Mittens would've been any better?

Romney wouldn't have caused class envy like Obama did or tried to rewrite the Constitution.

That's where you're wrong and people like me, and frankly Warren Buffet and others, are right. He said that there is indeed a class war, and that his side is waging it and winning. When Mitt Romney pays 14% in taxes on millions in earnings, claims that his rate is fair, and then chides "47 percent" -- who, mind you, pay a higher effective tax rate than he does -- he is the one initiating class war. Nice talking point, though.

Also, explain to me, again, how ObamaCare has been an "epic fail." I see these broad-brush, unsubstantiated comments from all over, and it's truly stunning.

Obamacare, for one, took forever to even get running. And second, I remember Obama promised us we had a choice over whether or not we could keep our old healthcare plan. But he went back on his word and said that it was mandatory.:

You're right about the website. It sucked. But it took about a month and a half to fix it, and after that people were able to sign up in droves -- which is likely why Ted Cruz and friends admitted that they had to stop it in its track prior to implementation because after people see what's in the bill (rather than the Fox News death panel BS), they'll like it.

The second argument is so tired, as well. People were losing their insurance at faster rates BEFORE the ACA. People lose their coverage all the time. Yes, people received cancellation notices. But they were able to purchase better, cheaper plans under the exchanges and were ultimately better off, so again, that lie falls. If you want to talk about actual lies, let's get to some of Romney's: claiming that the ACA actually cut Medicare, even though it didn't, and the so-called "cuts" were included in the Ryan Budget; claiming that Chrysler was moving to China; claiming that he could actually broaden the base, lower the rates, and not raise taxes on middle-income people, even though the CBO told us it was impossible; attacking the ACA, even though he implemented the blueprint and loved it several years earlier, et al.
Khaos_Mage
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3/7/2014 4:01:43 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/7/2014 3:05:46 PM, acchokiefan wrote:
America is being destroyed. I did not think it was possible for him to save the nation after the grand TRAINWRECK that 8 Yeats of Bush left us in. Not all his fault. He has three others helping him. With a congress that's in place by the Cato Institute to weaken and even destroy the federal government, I would say that he is the best president ever. Never in history has there been such unrelenting attacks on another political and you betcha (wink) much of it is racial. The religious right (I'm a follower) has bought the complete Hokie-Dokie and turned them totally upside down. If you'd like to speak morals as a whole? Among the industrialized free world, 60% of the Pentecostal church is the ugliest, nastiest entity in it. Obama has made every effort to get healthcare to people, instead of letting them be ripped off. Red states want them to continue to be ripped off. I love in Tennessee. You want to see Unethical and immoral trash? Come and meet the Tennessee legislature. (Wife beaters, drunkards, drug dealers) and all they have to say to get elected is how much they HATE. Obama has held his head high while the slime at FOX news ( which is a 24 hours right winged PROPOGANDA entertainment channel) bends the news. There is a huge lie that is sweeping the earth and Obama is one of the most noble men in history. Past night, Rachel Maddow proved beyond measure that we went into Iraq for oil and revenge. Key people, including Colin Powell and people that just refuse to let the American people believe a lie and found it their duty to let the truth be known, stood up for what's right. THIS COUNTRY IS GOING DOWN. There's absolutely no question about it in my mind. I don't waste my time fighting it with time and money any longer. We will end up in civil war. That has been in "the works" for about ten years now. If, and only of you want to know a week ahead of time when the war is going to start. Watch for a mass exodus of the 1% who will leave to go abroad for a while. I'm not a 1%er, but me and my family are leaving too. I'll talk about it, but I won't spend money trying to save a nation that isn't worth saving anymore.

Hey buddy, ever of here of the "enter" key?
My work here is, finally, done.
PotBelliedGeek
Posts: 4,298
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3/7/2014 4:09:32 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/7/2014 1:46:45 PM, Tophatdoc wrote:
At 3/7/2014 1:24:59 PM, PotBelliedGeek wrote:

Why is U.S. Hegemony a good thing?

U.S. hegemony is a good thing in my opinion for a variety of reasons but I will keep it to one reason to be quick. The United States is the world's leading liberal democracy. I would prefer if a liberal democracy was leading the world rather than an authoritarian or tyrannical form of government. Whoever leads the world or a region influences the world's or a region's ideas. There is a reason why democracies and liberal democracies have become so popular in the last century, that reason is US hegemony. This has resulted in the slow but gradual acceptance of the concept of "rights."

The countries who have held the most hegemony over humanity's history has always been changing from the ancient days of Uruk to modern day America. I would prefer in today's time it be a liberal democracy that holds the most hegemony in the world. So US hegemony is a good thing in my opinion.

Here is a very relevant and nuanced discussion about global power. I feel like it is very relevant to this thread, as it talks about the U.S.A's status as a world power in the coming age. I also feel that it can be an argument against national hegemony.

http://www.ted.com...
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Pitbull15
Posts: 479
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3/7/2014 4:12:03 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/7/2014 3:52:45 PM, progressivedem22 wrote:
At 3/7/2014 2:56:30 PM, Pitbull15 wrote:
At 3/7/2014 11:35:20 AM, progressivedem22 wrote:
At 3/7/2014 12:08:42 AM, Pitbull15 wrote:
At 3/6/2014 4:50:05 PM, Moroni23 wrote:
Whether or not he is doing it intentionally or unintentionally, Obama is destroying this country in a number of ways. Keep in mind I am an Independent.

1- Economically
2- Morally
3- Patriotically
4- Militaristically

This should be fun. I'd love to hear your thoughts. I'd also love to see if there are any politically educated, patriotic liberals who actually believe Obama has been good for our country. And your arguments for such a claim.

Steven Michael Anderson

As bold as these claims are, I think they're right. Obama has done far more bad than good for this country, and the fact that he got re-elected (Even after trying to change the Constitution for that sole purpose!) and that he's not impeach speaks volumes about how pathetic and lazy many of the people in this country are. The main reason he even got elected was because he promised Obamacare and the whole "putting the middle class first" BS. Both of which were epic fails just like his whole presidency, regime and administration.

So I conclude that Obama blows harder than any other president ever and should step down. Let the fire begin.

He tried to change the Constitution? Please enlighten us all, because I wasn't aware of that.

http://www.hyscience.com...

Or more recently

http://www.renewamerica.com...
http://weeklyworldnews.com...

So the latter two are biased right-wing sources, and the first is an unattributed blog with no sources whatsoever -- which the first comment on the page calls BS. Nice.

Would you rather I use left wing sources? Those are just as bad. There aren't many major news outlets that are without bias. You could google this whole issue and read about it if you want.

And you claimed that "putting the middle class first" was BS. I agree with you. Obama has been far too conservative. But do you honestly think that Mittens would've been any better?

Romney wouldn't have caused class envy like Obama did or tried to rewrite the Constitution.

That's where you're wrong and people like me, and frankly Warren Buffet and others, are right. He said that there is indeed a class war, and that his side is waging it and winning. When Mitt Romney pays 14% in taxes on millions in earnings, claims that his rate is fair, and then chides "47 percent" -- who, mind you, pay a higher effective tax rate than he does -- he is the one initiating class war. Nice talking point, though.

But Romney still probably would've done a better job as a president. Obama didn't exactly help the whole "class warfare" thing and the national debt skyrocketed in part because of him. George Bush didn't do it any good either, but I'm just pointing that out.

Also, explain to me, again, how ObamaCare has been an "epic fail." I see these broad-brush, unsubstantiated comments from all over, and it's truly stunning.

Obamacare, for one, took forever to even get running. And second, I remember Obama promised us we had a choice over whether or not we could keep our old healthcare plan. But he went back on his word and said that it was mandatory.:

You're right about the website. It sucked. But it took about a month and a half to fix it, and after that people were able to sign up in droves -- which is likely why Ted Cruz and friends admitted that they had to stop it in its track prior to implementation because after people see what's in the bill (rather than the Fox News death panel BS), they'll like it.

But Obama still went back on his word and there's no guarantee his plan is going to work. Most people wanted to keep their old healthcare plans for a reason but he made it mandatory to switch over.

I see you're railing on Fox News and right-wing networks quite a bit. And networks like MSNBC and CNN aren't biased, too?

The second argument is so tired, as well. People were losing their insurance at faster rates BEFORE the ACA. People lose their coverage all the time. Yes, people received cancellation notices. But they were able to purchase better, cheaper plans under the exchanges and were ultimately better off, so again, that lie falls. If you want to talk about actual lies, let's get to some of Romney's: claiming that the ACA actually cut Medicare, even though it didn't, and the so-called "cuts" were included in the Ryan Budget; claiming that Chrysler was moving to China; claiming that he could actually broaden the base, lower the rates, and not raise taxes on middle-income people, even though the CBO told us it was impossible; attacking the ACA, even though he implemented the blueprint and loved it several years earlier, et al.

I don't understand how the argument falls. Obama said himself we had a choice, and he went back on his word. This particular argument was about Obamacare. I don't see why you need to bring Romney into this one, but I am aware of everything you said. Romney wouldn't be a perfect president by any means, but I still think he would've done better than Obama is doing now.
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Khaos_Mage
Posts: 23,214
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3/7/2014 4:12:04 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/7/2014 2:56:30 PM, Pitbull15 wrote:
At 3/7/2014 11:35:20 AM, progressivedem22 wrote:
At 3/7/2014 12:08:42 AM, Pitbull15 wrote:
At 3/6/2014 4:50:05 PM, Moroni23 wrote:
Whether or not he is doing it intentionally or unintentionally, Obama is destroying this country in a number of ways. Keep in mind I am an Independent.

1- Economically
2- Morally
3- Patriotically
4- Militaristically

This should be fun. I'd love to hear your thoughts. I'd also love to see if there are any politically educated, patriotic liberals who actually believe Obama has been good for our country. And your arguments for such a claim.

Steven Michael Anderson

As bold as these claims are, I think they're right. Obama has done far more bad than good for this country, and the fact that he got re-elected (Even after trying to change the Constitution for that sole purpose!) and that he's not impeach speaks volumes about how pathetic and lazy many of the people in this country are. The main reason he even got elected was because he promised Obamacare and the whole "putting the middle class first" BS. Both of which were epic fails just like his whole presidency, regime and administration.

So I conclude that Obama blows harder than any other president ever and should step down. Let the fire begin.

He tried to change the Constitution? Please enlighten us all, because I wasn't aware of that.

http://www.hyscience.com...
Before he was even elected, interesting...

Or more recently

http://www.renewamerica.com...

http://weeklyworldnews.com...
More recently by one year, and over four ago...

Also, what is inherently wrong with changing the Constitution? It is called an amendment. We have 27 of them.
However, I will agree I believe he usurped it with Obamacare.
And Bush and Obama did with TARP.

And you claimed that "putting the middle class first" was BS. I agree with you. Obama has been far too conservative. But do you honestly think that Mittens would've been any better?

Romney wouldn't have caused class envy like Obama did or tried to rewrite the Constitution.
lolwut?
The fact that Romney exists causes class envy.

Also, explain to me, again, how ObamaCare has been an "epic fail." I see these broad-brush, unsubstantiated comments from all over, and it's truly stunning.

Obamacare, for one, took forever to even get running. And second, I remember Obama promised us we had a choice over whether or not we could keep our old healthcare plan. But he went back on his word and said that it was mandatory.

Ummm, changes in laws always take time in implementing. The bigger the change them more time is needed. That means nothing.

And, you are an idiot if you didn't realize that was coming. I remember him saying that, and thinking, "hmmm, if the feds have minimum standards and my current insurance doesn't meet it, will my insurance provider still offer my current insurance?". It wasn't a lie; it is just a half-truth, like most politicians. You could still have it...if the insurance company wanted to offer it. They don't.
My work here is, finally, done.
Khaos_Mage
Posts: 23,214
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3/7/2014 4:22:24 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/7/2014 3:52:45 PM, progressivedem22 wrote:


Romney wouldn't have caused class envy like Obama did or tried to rewrite the Constitution.

That's where you're wrong and people like me, and frankly Warren Buffet and others, are right. He said that there is indeed a class war, and that his side is waging it and winning. When Mitt Romney pays 14% in taxes on millions in earnings, claims that his rate is fair, and then chides "47 percent" -- who, mind you, pay a higher effective tax rate than he does -- he is the one initiating class war. Nice talking point, though.

I am not sure what the 47% thing meant, but he is right that a good chunk pay no income taxes (outside of payroll taxes). Consider these four factors:
1. Social Security with total income less than $20K (assuming 1/2 is SS)
2. Dependants making less than $5700 (you know, living at home going to school)
3. Anyone making less than $10K who is not a dependant
4. Anyone with refundable EIC.

I can't check because I don't have Excel at work, but if memory serves, EIC is about 25%, and the others are a bit harder to tell, and there is overlapping, but I wouldn't be surprised if it is close to 40% of Americans who file income tax returns pay zero in taxes.

The comment was probably fairly accurate, but misleading.
Also, Warran Buffet pays low taxes because he doesn't have wages: he is paid in stocks.
My work here is, finally, done.
progressivedem22
Posts: 1,304
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3/7/2014 4:26:36 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/7/2014 4:12:03 PM, Pitbull15 wrote:
At 3/7/2014 3:52:45 PM, progressivedem22 wrote:
At 3/7/2014 2:56:30 PM, Pitbull15 wrote:
At 3/7/2014 11:35:20 AM, progressivedem22 wrote:
At 3/7/2014 12:08:42 AM, Pitbull15 wrote:
At 3/6/2014 4:50:05 PM, Moroni23 wrote:
Whether or not he is doing it intentionally or unintentionally, Obama is destroying this country in a number of ways. Keep in mind I am an Independent.

1- Economically
2- Morally
3- Patriotically
4- Militaristically

This should be fun. I'd love to hear your thoughts. I'd also love to see if there are any politically educated, patriotic liberals who actually believe Obama has been good for our country. And your arguments for such a claim.

Steven Michael Anderson

As bold as these claims are, I think they're right. Obama has done far more bad than good for this country, and the fact that he got re-elected (Even after trying to change the Constitution for that sole purpose!) and that he's not impeach speaks volumes about how pathetic and lazy many of the people in this country are. The main reason he even got elected was because he promised Obamacare and the whole "putting the middle class first" BS. Both of which were epic fails just like his whole presidency, regime and administration.

So I conclude that Obama blows harder than any other president ever and should step down. Let the fire begin.

He tried to change the Constitution? Please enlighten us all, because I wasn't aware of that.

http://www.hyscience.com...

Or more recently

http://www.renewamerica.com...
http://weeklyworldnews.com...

So the latter two are biased right-wing sources, and the first is an unattributed blog with no sources whatsoever -- which the first comment on the page calls BS. Nice.

Would you rather I use left wing sources? Those are just as bad. There aren't many major news outlets that are without bias. You could google this whole issue and read about it if you want.

I'm googling it and I'm finding nothing. Also, that's a false equivalency and depends largely on what you're calling a "left-wing" source, as I'll get to in a minute.
And you claimed that "putting the middle class first" was BS. I agree with you. Obama has been far too conservative. But do you honestly think that Mittens would've been any better?

Romney wouldn't have caused class envy like Obama did or tried to rewrite the Constitution.

That's where you're wrong and people like me, and frankly Warren Buffet and others, are right. He said that there is indeed a class war, and that his side is waging it and winning. When Mitt Romney pays 14% in taxes on millions in earnings, claims that his rate is fair, and then chides "47 percent" -- who, mind you, pay a higher effective tax rate than he does -- he is the one initiating class war. Nice talking point, though.

But Romney still probably would've done a better job as a president. Obama didn't exactly help the whole "class warfare" thing and the national debt skyrocketed in part because of him. George Bush didn't do it any good either, but I'm just pointing that out.

You're missing the point. The deficit came from several resources: two dumb wars (that Romney supported), two rounds of tax cuts (Romney supported), Medicare Part D (don't know his position), a recession (Romney supported the deregulation that led to it), and defense contracts (Romney supported). That's why the deficit was so high. And not to mention, despite the fact that Obama was handed a $1.2 trillion deficit -- and Bush was handed a surplus -- it's down to $680 billion, which is historic deficit reduction. So yes, Obama has been better on the deficit.

Also, explain to me, again, how ObamaCare has been an "epic fail." I see these broad-brush, unsubstantiated comments from all over, and it's truly stunning.

Obamacare, for one, took forever to even get running. And second, I remember Obama promised us we had a choice over whether or not we could keep our old healthcare plan. But he went back on his word and said that it was mandatory.:

You're right about the website. It sucked. But it took about a month and a half to fix it, and after that people were able to sign up in droves -- which is likely why Ted Cruz and friends admitted that they had to stop it in its track prior to implementation because after people see what's in the bill (rather than the Fox News death panel BS), they'll like it.

But Obama still went back on his word and there's no guarantee his plan is going to work. Most people wanted to keep their old healthcare plans for a reason but he made it mandatory to switch over.

He made it mandatory for free-riders to pay into a system -- a right-wing plan, by the way -- and for people who do have insurance to have non-junk policies at lower costs? Hey, that sucks man! We have the freedom to be taken advantage of by cartel-like insurance companies, because, merica'!

I see you're railing on Fox News and right-wing networks quite a bit. And networks like MSNBC and CNN aren't biased, too?

Not at all. This is a false equivalency.

First, you're committing a massive fallacy if you think CNN, ABC, et al. (you mentioned CNN, but the rest of the mainstream media follow logically -- tell me if I'm wrong) are in the boat for anyone. For goodness' sake, David Gregory spouts right-wing BS all the time. They just reported climate change as 50-50 when it's clearly not.

Yes, MSNBC is liberal and in the tank for Obama. I only watch Chris Hayes, to be honest with you. But there's a difference between being left-wing, but a compulsive fact checker (MSNBC) and right-wing, but a fact ducker (Fox). Death panels was a good example.

The second argument is so tired, as well. People were losing their insurance at faster rates BEFORE the ACA. People lose their coverage all the time. Yes, people received cancellation notices. But they were able to purchase better, cheaper plans under the exchanges and were ultimately better off, so again, that lie falls. If you want to talk about actual lies, let's get to some of Romney's: claiming that the ACA actually cut Medicare, even though it didn't, and the so-called "cuts" were included in the Ryan Budget; claiming that Chrysler was moving to China; claiming that he could actually broaden the base, lower the rates, and not raise taxes on middle-income people, even though the CBO told us it was impossible; attacking the ACA, even though he implemented the blueprint and loved it several years earlier, et al.

I don't understand how the argument falls. Obama said himself we had a choice, and he went back on his word. This particular argument was about Obamacare. I don't see why you need to bring Romney into this one, but I am aware of everything you said. Romney wouldn't be a perfect president by any means, but I still think he would've done better than Obama is doing now.:

And my comments addressed why he wouldn't be. The "choice" argument was honestly a matter of freedom vs. being "forced" to have better coverage at a lower cost. I honestly don't see the problem.

Also, this was Romney's plan. You know that, right?
progressivedem22
Posts: 1,304
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3/7/2014 4:31:13 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Damnit, Khaos Mage. I almost ran out of characters responding to Pitbull, then I saw that you wrote to me. Every time you do, I know that we're going to have a good, healthy disagreement, but you always pick my arguments apart and force me to expend character space responding. Hahaha, that's good usually, but when I'm still burned from exam week?! Damn! Anyway...enough of my meaningless dribble...

At 3/7/2014 4:22:24 PM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
At 3/7/2014 3:52:45 PM, progressivedem22 wrote:


Romney wouldn't have caused class envy like Obama did or tried to rewrite the Constitution.

That's where you're wrong and people like me, and frankly Warren Buffet and others, are right. He said that there is indeed a class war, and that his side is waging it and winning. When Mitt Romney pays 14% in taxes on millions in earnings, claims that his rate is fair, and then chides "47 percent" -- who, mind you, pay a higher effective tax rate than he does -- he is the one initiating class war. Nice talking point, though.

I am not sure what the 47% thing meant, but he is right that a good chunk pay no income taxes (outside of payroll taxes). Consider these four factors:
1. Social Security with total income less than $20K (assuming 1/2 is SS)
2. Dependants making less than $5700 (you know, living at home going to school)
3. Anyone making less than $10K who is not a dependant
4. Anyone with refundable EIC.

1. I think that payroll tax holiday expired during the "fiscal cliff" dill.
2. Do you want those people to pay a tax?! For goodness' sake, lol. There's a difference, obviously, between them and Mitt. AND, they consume with everything they earn and thus pay sales tax on 100% of their income -- again, a higher overall rate than Mitt.
3 and 4: Sure, but Mitt's net gain is significantly higher, and less warranted.

I can't check because I don't have Excel at work, but if memory serves, EIC is about 25%, and the others are a bit harder to tell, and there is overlapping, but I wouldn't be surprised if it is close to 40% of Americans who file income tax returns pay zero in taxes.

But you're drawing a false equivalence between filing a tax return and paying zero in taxes. Again, payroll taxes, user fees, sales taxes, property taxes, state and local taxes et al. are regressive and fall disproportionately on poor people -- who can't afford it, unlike Mittens.

The comment was probably fairly accurate, but misleading.
Also, Warran Buffet pays low taxes because he doesn't have wages: he is paid in stocks.


Absolutely, and I'm not thrilled with him either. I hate that disparity. I'd love to tax cap gains as ordinary income. Would you agree with me on that?
progressivedem22
Posts: 1,304
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3/7/2014 4:43:38 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/7/2014 4:26:36 PM, progressivedem22 wrote:
At 3/7/2014 4:12:03 PM, Pitbull15 wrote:
At 3/7/2014 3:52:45 PM, progressivedem22 wrote:
At 3/7/2014 2:56:30 PM, Pitbull15 wrote:
At 3/7/2014 11:35:20 AM, progressivedem22 wrote:
At 3/7/2014 12:08:42 AM, Pitbull15 wrote:
At 3/6/2014 4:50:05 PM, Moroni23 wrote:
Whether or not he is doing it intentionally or unintentionally, Obama is destroying this country in a number of ways. Keep in mind I am an Independent.

1- Economically
2- Morally
3- Patriotically
4- Militaristically

This should be fun. I'd love to hear your thoughts. I'd also love to see if there are any politically educated, patriotic liberals who actually believe Obama has been good for our country. And your arguments for such a claim.

Steven Michael Anderson

As bold as these claims are, I think they're right. Obama has done far more bad than good for this country, and the fact that he got re-elected (Even after trying to change the Constitution for that sole purpose!) and that he's not impeach speaks volumes about how pathetic and lazy many of the people in this country are. The main reason he even got elected was because he promised Obamacare and the whole "putting the middle class first" BS. Both of which were epic fails just like his whole presidency, regime and administration.

So I conclude that Obama blows harder than any other president ever and should step down. Let the fire begin.

He tried to change the Constitution? Please enlighten us all, because I wasn't aware of that.

http://www.hyscience.com...

Or more recently

http://www.renewamerica.com...
http://weeklyworldnews.com...

So the latter two are biased right-wing sources, and the first is an unattributed blog with no sources whatsoever -- which the first comment on the page calls BS. Nice.

Would you rather I use left wing sources? Those are just as bad. There aren't many major news outlets that are without bias. You could google this whole issue and read about it if you want.

I'm googling it and I'm finding nothing. Also, that's a false equivalency and depends largely on what you're calling a "left-wing" source, as I'll get to in a minute.
And you claimed that "putting the middle class first" was BS. I agree with you. Obama has been far too conservative. But do you honestly think that Mittens would've been any better?

Romney wouldn't have caused class envy like Obama did or tried to rewrite the Constitution.

That's where you're wrong and people like me, and frankly Warren Buffet and others, are right. He said that there is indeed a class war, and that his side is waging it and winning. When Mitt Romney pays 14% in taxes on millions in earnings, claims that his rate is fair, and then chides "47 percent" -- who, mind you, pay a higher effective tax rate than he does -- he is the one initiating class war. Nice talking point, though.

But Romney still probably would've done a better job as a president. Obama didn't exactly help the whole "class warfare" thing and the national debt skyrocketed in part because of him. George Bush didn't do it any good either, but I'm just pointing that out.

You're missing the point. The deficit came from several resources: two dumb wars (that Romney supported), two rounds of tax cuts (Romney supported), Medicare Part D (don't know his position), a recession (Romney supported the deregulation that led to it), and defense contracts (Romney supported). That's why the deficit was so high. And not to mention, despite the fact that Obama was handed a $1.2 trillion deficit -- and Bush was handed a surplus -- it's down to $680 billion, which is historic deficit reduction. So yes, Obama has been better on the deficit.

Also, explain to me, again, how ObamaCare has been an "epic fail." I see these broad-brush, unsubstantiated comments from all over, and it's truly stunning.

Obamacare, for one, took forever to even get running. And second, I remember Obama promised us we had a choice over whether or not we could keep our old healthcare plan. But he went back on his word and said that it was mandatory.:

You're right about the website. It sucked. But it took about a month and a half to fix it, and after that people were able to sign up in droves -- which is likely why Ted Cruz and friends admitted that they had to stop it in its track prior to implementation because after people see what's in the bill (rather than the Fox News death panel BS), they'll like it.

But Obama still went back on his word and there's no guarantee his plan is going to work. Most people wanted to keep their old healthcare plans for a reason but he made it mandatory to switch over.

He made it mandatory for free-riders to pay into a system -- a right-wing plan, by the way -- and for people who do have insurance to have non-junk policies at lower costs? Hey, that sucks man! We have the freedom to be taken advantage of by cartel-like insurance companies, because, merica'!

I see you're railing on Fox News and right-wing networks quite a bit. And networks like MSNBC and CNN aren't biased, too?

Not at all. This is a false equivalency.

First, you're committing a massive fallacy if you think CNN, ABC, et al. (you mentioned CNN, but the rest of the mainstream media follow logically -- tell me if I'm wrong) are in the boat for anyone. For goodness' sake, David Gregory spouts right-wing BS all the time. They just reported climate change as 50-50 when it's clearly not.

Yes, MSNBC is liberal and in the tank for Obama. I only watch Chris Hayes, to be honest with you. But there's a difference between being left-wing, but a compulsive fact checker (MSNBC) and right-wing, but a fact ducker (Fox). Death panels was a good example.

The second argument is so tired, as well. People were losing their insurance at faster rates BEFORE the ACA. People lose their coverage all the time. Yes, people received cancellation notices. But they were able to purchase better, cheaper plans under the exchanges and were ultimately better off, so again, that lie falls. If you want to talk about actual lies, let's get to some of Romney's: claiming that the ACA actually cut Medicare, even though it didn't, and the so-called "cuts" were included in the Ryan Budget; claiming that Chrysler was moving to China; claiming that he could actually broaden the base, lower the rates, and not raise taxes on middle-income people, even though the CBO told us it was impossible; attacking the ACA, even though he implemented the blueprint and loved it several years earlier, et al.

I don't understand how the argument falls. Obama said himself we had a choice, and he went back on his word. This particular argument was about Obamacare. I don't see why you need to bring Romney into this one, but I am aware of everything you said. Romney wouldn't be a perfect president by any means, but I still think he would've done better than Obama is doing now.:

And my comments addressed why he wouldn't be. The "choice" argument was honestly a matter of freedom vs. being "forced" to have better coverage at a lower cost. I honestly don't see the problem.

Also, this was Romney's plan. You know that, right?

*sources
YYW
Posts: 36,252
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3/7/2014 5:04:15 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/6/2014 4:50:05 PM, Moroni23 wrote:
Whether or not he is doing it intentionally or unintentionally, Obama is destroying this country in a number of ways. Keep in mind I am an Independent.

1- Economically
2- Morally
3- Patriotically
4- Militaristically

This should be fun. I'd love to hear your thoughts. I'd also love to see if there are any politically educated, patriotic liberals who actually believe Obama has been good for our country. And your arguments for such a claim.

Steven Michael Anderson

I think there are a lot of people who think that, and I don't really disagree with the notion that there are a lot of very bad decisions that the president has made. But, he's made a lot of good ones, too.

On the national level, I think raising the federal minimum wage is one of the best things he's done. I think having an attorney general like Eric Holder who has, generally, a morally upright stance on social policies was a good thing, and I like the fact that Obama has tremendously increased domestic petrochemical production. The health care rollout was tumultuous, but I don't think it's unreasonable to expect it to be so. A lot of people want to argue that because of the problems with the website, the whole system is doomed to failure. That's a pretty juvenile and plebeian critique, because every time we do something new, it's reasonable to expect that there are going to be some kinks. So, even though I wish that implementation was less chaotic, Obamacare is the single greatest legislative accomplishment the United States has implemented since the Johnson administration.

On the international level, I think that's where Obama's greatest challenges have come to surface. Syria, Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan, South East Asia and Africa have all presented real challenges that he's proven to be pretty reluctant to do what's right in. But, it's very clear that Obama views international conflict as something to watch and manage. He'll do what's necessary to protect American interests and no more. In that sense, he's the most conservative president (at least when it comes to international politics) since President George H. W. Bush.

One way or another, whatever damage Obama creates internationally can be fixed. There will be a lot to fix, but it's not the end of the world. If the United States and the world can survive Jimmy Carter's presidency, we can survive Obama's too. I wish Hillary Clinton had have won, but "coulda' shoulda' woulda'" conversations aren't really productive to have. Who knows... maybe her time will come in 2016? Maybe.
Tsar of DDO
Pitbull15
Posts: 479
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3/7/2014 8:39:24 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/7/2014 4:12:04 PM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
At 3/7/2014 2:56:30 PM, Pitbull15 wrote:
At 3/7/2014 11:35:20 AM, progressivedem22 wrote:
At 3/7/2014 12:08:42 AM, Pitbull15 wrote:
At 3/6/2014 4:50:05 PM, Moroni23 wrote:
Whether or not he is doing it intentionally or unintentionally, Obama is destroying this country in a number of ways. Keep in mind I am an Independent.

1- Economically
2- Morally
3- Patriotically
4- Militaristically

This should be fun. I'd love to hear your thoughts. I'd also love to see if there are any politically educated, patriotic liberals who actually believe Obama has been good for our country. And your arguments for such a claim.

Steven Michael Anderson

As bold as these claims are, I think they're right. Obama has done far more bad than good for this country, and the fact that he got re-elected (Even after trying to change the Constitution for that sole purpose!) and that he's not impeach speaks volumes about how pathetic and lazy many of the people in this country are. The main reason he even got elected was because he promised Obamacare and the whole "putting the middle class first" BS. Both of which were epic fails just like his whole presidency, regime and administration.

So I conclude that Obama blows harder than any other president ever and should step down. Let the fire begin.

He tried to change the Constitution? Please enlighten us all, because I wasn't aware of that.

http://www.hyscience.com...
Before he was even elected, interesting...

Or more recently

http://www.renewamerica.com...

http://weeklyworldnews.com...
More recently by one year, and over four ago...

Also, what is inherently wrong with changing the Constitution? It is called an amendment. We have 27 of them.
However, I will agree I believe he usurped it with Obamacare.
And Bush and Obama did with TARP.

And you claimed that "putting the middle class first" was BS. I agree with you. Obama has been far too conservative. But do you honestly think that Mittens would've been any better?

Romney wouldn't have caused class envy like Obama did or tried to rewrite the Constitution.
lolwut?
The fact that Romney exists causes class envy.

Also, explain to me, again, how ObamaCare has been an "epic fail." I see these broad-brush, unsubstantiated comments from all over, and it's truly stunning.

Obamacare, for one, took forever to even get running. And second, I remember Obama promised us we had a choice over whether or not we could keep our old healthcare plan. But he went back on his word and said that it was mandatory.

Ummm, changes in laws always take time in implementing. The bigger the change them more time is needed. That means nothing.

And, you are an idiot if you didn't realize that was coming. I remember him saying that, and thinking, "hmmm, if the feds have minimum standards and my current insurance doesn't meet it, will my insurance provider still offer my current insurance?". It wasn't a lie; it is just a half-truth, like most politicians. You could still have it...if the insurance company wanted to offer it. They don't.

I and many other intelligent people saw it coming for a long time, but unfortunately, nobody would listen to our warnings.
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Ipsofacto
Posts: 164
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3/7/2014 10:27:34 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Who really believes "Obama" is destroying America?

Sort of like blaming the President for the weather. I'm more concerned with what the Gini coefficient tells us- much more so than what any politician might.
thett3
Posts: 14,334
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3/8/2014 12:54:22 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
How does one destroy a nation "patriotically"?
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: At 11/12/2016 11:49:40 PM, Raisor wrote:
: thett was right