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Republican All Star Cast *

inferno
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3/10/2014 10:33:39 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
I have 5 of em right here today.
1) Mr Cruz
2)Tom Ryan
3) Rand Paul
4)Chris Christie
5)Jeb Bush

Which one of these Republican All Stars do you want running the US in 2016.
Tell us please. =)
tylergraham95
Posts: 1,461
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3/10/2014 11:00:21 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/10/2014 10:33:39 AM, inferno wrote:
I have 5 of em right here today.
1) Mr Cruz

Haha. No. Ted Cruz is not a natural born citizen (as far as I know) and is just waaaaay too radical and idiotic.

2)Tom Ryan

Who is this?

3) Rand Paul

No thank you. He's like a sh*ttier version of his crazy father.

4)Chris Christie

An okay candidate. A moderate republican with a mostly good track record (other than the recent fiasco). He probably wouldn't win, though, because the republican party is so freaking radicalized.

5)Jeb Bush

A) I thought he retired from politics?

B) Even if he didn't, dear god no. His policies were always about stopping action, not taking action.


Which one of these Republican All Stars do you want running the US in 2016.
Tell us please. =)

Idk if I would call these guys "All Stars."

Let's just get zombie Nixon and re-elect him.
"we dig" - Jeanette Runquist (1943 - 2015)
inferno
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3/10/2014 11:06:21 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/10/2014 11:00:21 AM, tylergraham95 wrote:
At 3/10/2014 10:33:39 AM, inferno wrote:
I have 5 of em right here today.
1) Mr Cruz

Haha. No. Ted Cruz is not a natural born citizen (as far as I know) and is just waaaaay too radical and idiotic.

2)Tom Ryan

Who is this?

3) Rand Paul

No thank you. He's like a sh*ttier version of his crazy father.

4)Chris Christie

An okay candidate. A moderate republican with a mostly good track record (other than the recent fiasco). He probably wouldn't win, though, because the republican party is so freaking radicalized.

5)Jeb Bush

A) I thought he retired from politics?

B) Even if he didn't, dear god no. His policies were always about stopping action, not taking action.


Which one of these Republican All Stars do you want running the US in 2016.
Tell us please. =)

Idk if I would call these guys "All Stars."

Let's just get zombie Nixon and re-elect him.

Paul Ryan that is. Excuse me for that mishap there.
tylergraham95
Posts: 1,461
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3/10/2014 11:09:27 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/10/2014 11:06:21 AM, inferno wrote:
At 3/10/2014 11:00:21 AM, tylergraham95 wrote:
At 3/10/2014 10:33:39 AM, inferno wrote:
I have 5 of em right here today.
1) Mr Cruz

Haha. No. Ted Cruz is not a natural born citizen (as far as I know) and is just waaaaay too radical and idiotic.

2)Tom Ryan

Who is this?

3) Rand Paul

No thank you. He's like a sh*ttier version of his crazy father.

4)Chris Christie

An okay candidate. A moderate republican with a mostly good track record (other than the recent fiasco). He probably wouldn't win, though, because the republican party is so freaking radicalized.

5)Jeb Bush

A) I thought he retired from politics?

B) Even if he didn't, dear god no. His policies were always about stopping action, not taking action.


Which one of these Republican All Stars do you want running the US in 2016.
Tell us please. =)

Idk if I would call these guys "All Stars."

Let's just get zombie Nixon and re-elect him.

Paul Ryan that is. Excuse me for that mishap there.

Oh dear lord no.

If this really is the prospective candidate pool, then the Republican party is down the tube. McCain was the last of the good, moderate, Republicans.

I would rather elect Barbra Bush than Ted Cruz or Paul Ryan.
"we dig" - Jeanette Runquist (1943 - 2015)
JohnMaynardKeynes
Posts: 1,512
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3/10/2014 11:58:51 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/10/2014 10:33:39 AM, inferno wrote:
I have 5 of em right here today.
1) Mr Cruz
2)Tom Ryan
3) Rand Paul
4)Chris Christie
5)Jeb Bush

Which one of these Republican All Stars do you want running the US in 2016.
Tell us please. =)

Cruz: Considering that I'm a democrat, I'd love for this guy to run and to be the nominee, haha. But in actuality, I think Mr. Cruz is far too radical, and his willingness to attack people in his own party is highly divisive -- in fact, the cause of the current civil war in the GOP.

Ryan: He's probably the most reasonable Republican in the field, though I don't think that is saying too much. His budgets, when it comes down to it, are extremely far-right. Newt Gingrich may have been right when he called them "right-wing social engineering." His budget a few years back, for instance, slashed government spending as a percentage of GDP to 15%, which would render discretionary spending at 1% of GDP. To put that in perspective, veteran's benefits currently account for 1%. At the same time, he would slash the top income tax rate and eliminate taxes on capital gains, which would have allowed Mitt Romney to pay virtually 0%, which I think is quite crazy.

Paul: I like his stances on foreign policy, civil liberties, and drones, though I'm unconvinced that he's as principled as his father on these issues, which worries me. He may be inclined to focus on his sound-money, gut-the-federal-government portion of his platform, which puts him roughly in the same position as Cruz.

Christie: The conventional wisdom is that Christie, alongside Hillary Clinton for the Democrats, are the candidates to beat, though Bridgegate put a minor (perhaps major) damper in that. I'm unconvinced that he could win the GOP nomination running as a so-called "moderate," though I'm also unconvinced that he is a moderate. This is the man who gave $18 million in breaks for the Super Bowl, but raised the retirement age for public employees and virtually destroyed their pensions -- and then bragged about it at CPAC. He displays himself as a no-nonsense moderate, and extols the virtues of sitting down with others on the opposite end of the spectrum and hashing out their differences, which in principle is great. However, can we really say that the guy who constantly raises his voice and tells people to "shut up" is a paragon of diplomacy?

Jeb Bush: All I can say is, we don't need another Bush! Please no! Granted, it would be difficult for him to be worse than his brother, and his father in the grand scheme of things was actually a fairly decent president (H.W., that is). Jeb may be the new candidate-to-beat with Christie's numbers dropping, but he's hardly a moderate, either. Isn't this the guy who wrote a book where he discussed immigration reform, and then not long after withdrew his support for it?

Absent from the list, I think, is Bobby Jindal, Marco Rubio, and Ben Carson (yes, that prayer breakfast was quite interesting!). The first two, of course, are almost for-sure candidates in 2016. The last is a bit of a wild card, but it could happen, right?
~JohnMaynardKeynes

"The sight of my succulent backside acts as a sedative for the beholder. It soothes the pain of life and makes all which hurts seem like bliss. I urge all those stressed by ridiculous drama on DDO which will never affect your real life to gaze upon my cheeks for they will make you have an excitement and joy you've never felt before." -- Dr. Dennybug

Founder of the BSH-YYW Fan Club
Founder of the Barkalotti
Stand with Dogs and Economics
JohnMaynardKeynes
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3/10/2014 12:00:18 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
A slight correction: Paul Ryan's budget slashed government spending to 15% of GDP by 2050, not in the following year. I apologize for that being unclear.
~JohnMaynardKeynes

"The sight of my succulent backside acts as a sedative for the beholder. It soothes the pain of life and makes all which hurts seem like bliss. I urge all those stressed by ridiculous drama on DDO which will never affect your real life to gaze upon my cheeks for they will make you have an excitement and joy you've never felt before." -- Dr. Dennybug

Founder of the BSH-YYW Fan Club
Founder of the Barkalotti
Stand with Dogs and Economics
monty1
Posts: 1,084
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3/10/2014 12:05:20 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Ted Cruz, Chris Christie, and Rand Paul are non-starters. But even with what's left the Repubs would be fielding a couple of candidates that would at least be possibles and that's much better than last time around where they were all severely flawed or crazies except Romney. And most on the right understand that Romney was a bad choice even though he was the only rational choice.

On the bright side though, the right is highly likely to settle on Rand Paul and that would result in a huge loss to the Dems.

Jeb Bush is a possible even though his name is damaged goods.

Paul Ryan is a onetime loser already but that may not have the downside that a lot of people think it is. To actually win, he would be my choice.
inferno
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3/10/2014 2:53:45 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/10/2014 12:05:20 PM, monty1 wrote:
Ted Cruz, Chris Christie, and Rand Paul are non-starters. But even with what's left the Repubs would be fielding a couple of candidates that would at least be possibles and that's much better than last time around where they were all severely flawed or crazies except Romney. And most on the right understand that Romney was a bad choice even though he was the only rational choice.

On the bright side though, the right is highly likely to settle on Rand Paul and that would result in a huge loss to the Dems.

Jeb Bush is a possible even though his name is damaged goods.

Paul Ryan is a onetime loser already but that may not have the downside that a lot of people think it is. To actually win, he would be my choice.

I think Romney again is better than them all if you ask me. Just saying.
monty1
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3/10/2014 5:32:39 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/10/2014 2:53:45 PM, inferno wrote:
At 3/10/2014 12:05:20 PM, monty1 wrote:
Ted Cruz, Chris Christie, and Rand Paul are non-starters. But even with what's left the Repubs would be fielding a couple of candidates that would at least be possibles and that's much better than last time around where they were all severely flawed or crazies except Romney. And most on the right understand that Romney was a bad choice even though he was the only rational choice.

On the bright side though, the right is highly likely to settle on Rand Paul and that would result in a huge loss to the Dems.

Jeb Bush is a possible even though his name is damaged goods.

Paul Ryan is a onetime loser already but that may not have the downside that a lot of people think it is. To actually win, he would be my choice.

I think Romney again is better than them all if you ask me. Just saying.

You would be in a small minority with that opinion. I don't think there's any chance at all that the Republican party could choose Romney and so I think we should dispense with his name.

This is interesting though because there's a chance the Repub party may corner itself with one bad candidate who is the best choice out of a barrel of rotten apples. That's clearly what happened last time and the reason they went for Romney. All the rest were batshit crazies.
GeoLaureate8
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3/11/2014 10:28:33 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
You people are idiots. Ted Cruz and Rand Paul are the only ones qualified to be President.

Limited government, free markets, individual liberty. Yeah, so fvcking extreme!!!! Hey, Founding fathers blew off heads over a 3% sales tax.

Ted Cruz is a Princeton / Harvard University Magna Cum Laude Honors graduate, worldwide debate champion, Supreme Court litigator, Solicitor General, Chief Justice law clerk, joint professor, and U.S. Senator.

Ted Cruz is a common sense fighter for liberty.
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
GeoLaureate8
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3/11/2014 10:33:22 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/10/2014 11:00:21 AM, tylergraham95 wrote:
Haha. No. Ted Cruz is not a natural born citizen (as far as I know) and is just waaaaay too radical and idiotic.

Oh is that why he graduated from Princeton and Harvard writing a doctoral thesis on the Constitution, a document he memorized word for word?

Are you a worldwide debate champion?

Is that why Liberal professor Alan Dershowitz said that Ted Cruz is off the charts brilliant and defeated his own professors in debates?

Hey, if Ted Cruz is the standard of idiot, where does that put you?
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
tylergraham95
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3/11/2014 10:51:31 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/11/2014 10:33:22 AM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
At 3/10/2014 11:00:21 AM, tylergraham95 wrote:
Haha. No. Ted Cruz is not a natural born citizen (as far as I know) and is just waaaaay too radical and idiotic.

Oh is that why he graduated from Princeton and Harvard writing a doctoral thesis on the Constitution, a document he memorized word for word?

Are you a worldwide debate champion?

Is that why Liberal professor Alan Dershowitz said that Ted Cruz is off the charts brilliant and defeated his own professors in debates?

Hey, if Ted Cruz is the standard of idiot, where does that put you?

There's a very big difference between knowledge, and wisdom.

Ted Cruz is your standard, run-of-the-mill, radicalized republican. The kind of republican who is ruining the image of the modern conservative. Ted Cruz isn't even a conservative in the traditional sense of the term. He wants to regulate marriage, unions, and drug control. A true conservative wouldn't want the government involved in peoples lives that way.

Ted Cruz simply wants to forward the agenda of the christian right.

The majority of his public statements against the Democratic agenda, and in favor of the christian right agenda, are either false or mostly false (1)

Furthermore, pointing to Alan Dershowitz is nothing more than an appeal to authority (a logical fallacy).

Finally, Ted Cruz is not a natural born citizen, so the point is moot. He simply cannot be US President. That would be illegal.

1. http://www.politifact.com...
"we dig" - Jeanette Runquist (1943 - 2015)
tylergraham95
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3/11/2014 10:53:24 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/11/2014 10:28:33 AM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
Ted Cruz is a common sense fighter for liberty.

LOL Would you debate me on the following topic "Ted Cruz fights only for liberty"
"we dig" - Jeanette Runquist (1943 - 2015)
tylergraham95
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3/11/2014 10:59:13 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/11/2014 10:51:31 AM, tylergraham95 wrote:
At 3/11/2014 10:33:22 AM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
At 3/10/2014 11:00:21 AM, tylergraham95 wrote:
Haha. No. Ted Cruz is not a natural born citizen (as far as I know) and is just waaaaay too radical and idiotic.

Oh is that why he graduated from Princeton and Harvard writing a doctoral thesis on the Constitution, a document he memorized word for word?

Are you a worldwide debate champion?

Is that why Liberal professor Alan Dershowitz said that Ted Cruz is off the charts brilliant and defeated his own professors in debates?

Hey, if Ted Cruz is the standard of idiot, where does that put you?

There's a very big difference between knowledge, and wisdom.

Ted Cruz is your standard, run-of-the-mill, radicalized republican. The kind of republican who is ruining the image of the modern conservative. Ted Cruz isn't even a conservative in the traditional sense of the term. He wants to regulate marriage, unions, and drug control. A true conservative wouldn't want the government involved in peoples lives that way.

Ted Cruz simply wants to forward the agenda of the christian right.

The majority of his public statements against the Democratic agenda, and in favor of the christian right agenda, are either false or mostly false (1)

Furthermore, pointing to Alan Dershowitz is nothing more than an appeal to authority (a logical fallacy).

Finally, Ted Cruz is not a natural born citizen, so the point is moot. He simply cannot be US President. That would be illegal.


1. http://www.politifact.com...

Scratch the underlined portion out. He actually can run for president.
"we dig" - Jeanette Runquist (1943 - 2015)
GeoLaureate8
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3/11/2014 11:20:20 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/11/2014 10:51:31 AM, tylergraham95 wrote:
There's a very big difference between knowledge, and wisdom.

Ted Cruz is your standard, run-of-the-mill, radicalized republican.

Standard run of the mill? No other freshman Senator has blew up this fast and made this many headlines with this much support doing 22 hour filibusters. As James Carville said, Ted Cruz is the most talented and fearless Republican politician in 30 years, and in my view, since Joe McCarthy.

The kind of republican who is ruining the image of the modern conservative. Ted Cruz isn't even a conservative in the traditional sense of the term. He wants to regulate marriage, unions, and drug control. A true conservative wouldn't want the government involved in peoples lives that way.

First of all, traditional Conservatives DO want to regulate marriage and drugs. Ted Cruz takes the true Conservative position and says leave it to the states. He personally believes marriage is between a man and a woman but has no desire to have the government enforce that belief. On drugs, he's right there with Rand Paul.

Ted Cruz simply wants to forward the agenda of the christian right.

Ted Cruz is funded by the Koch Brothers (descendants of the John Birch Society) and is following the agenda set forth by Ron Paul.

The Tea Party focus is fiscal issues and limited government. The Christian rhetoric is just that, nothing more. They have no plans to implement laws having anything to do with religion unless it means being free to have religion. The Left is trying to ban religious symbols from public sight, the Tea Party is right to fight for religious liberty.

The majority of his public statements against the Democratic agenda, and in favor of the christian right agenda, are either false or mostly false (1)

Nonsense. Ted Cruz has effectively refuted Politifact on multiple occasions. Politifact is garbage. They said Republicans were lying about Obamacare from 2010 - 2012, then finally admitted Obama was the one lying about Obamacare awarding him lie of the year 2013.

Furthermore, pointing to Alan Dershowitz is nothing more than an appeal to authority (a logical fallacy).

I don't think you know what a logical fallacy is or how to apply it. I have seen "appeal to authority" sloppily and mindlessly thrown around it's really starting to get old.

An appeal to authority is fallacious when you cite an authority outside the relevant subject and declare "x is true because authority y said so."

My citation of an unbiased person with credibility was used as a persuasive device to demonstrate that the idea of Ted Cruz being intelligent isn't farfetched.
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
monty1
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3/11/2014 12:00:10 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
If Repub supporters are getting behind Ted Cruz and Rand Paul then they learned nothing for the Romney experience.

Dem supporters shouldn't debate them, Cruz and Paul are Dem secret weapons that will both blow up in the Repub's faces. Dems couldn't wish for better choices because it's their best chance against the Repubs as it sits right now.

Sadly, neither of them will get far as teabaggery is disintegrating and will have almost completely before 2016.

The Repubs must find an acceptable mainstream candidate soon. I really hope they can as the halfassed Dem/Repub power struggle is not accomplishing anything for the majority of the people. A Repub pres with both sides of congress going Repub would once and for all destroy their own ideology that is much too far slanted toward the wealthy. That would destroy the last faint hope of America joining the world and being economically progressive once again. Thereby weakening the US to the point where it would become less and less a threat to world peace.

Go Ted Cruz! Go Rand Paul!
JohnMaynardKeynes
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3/11/2014 5:31:45 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/11/2014 12:00:10 PM, monty1 wrote:
If Repub supporters are getting behind Ted Cruz and Rand Paul then they learned nothing for the Romney experience.

Dem supporters shouldn't debate them, Cruz and Paul are Dem secret weapons that will both blow up in the Repub's faces. Dems couldn't wish for better choices because it's their best chance against the Repubs as it sits right now.

Sadly, neither of them will get far as teabaggery is disintegrating and will have almost completely before 2016.

The Repubs must find an acceptable mainstream candidate soon. I really hope they can as the halfassed Dem/Repub power struggle is not accomplishing anything for the majority of the people. A Repub pres with both sides of congress going Repub would once and for all destroy their own ideology that is much too far slanted toward the wealthy. That would destroy the last faint hope of America joining the world and being economically progressive once again. Thereby weakening the US to the point where it would become less and less a threat to world peace.

Go Ted Cruz! Go Rand Paul!

I agree with everything you said except for a few things.

You said, if I'm understanding you correctly, that the GOP choosing Paul or Cruz is analogous to having chosen Romney -- that is, if they chose Cruz or Paul, they would be making the same mistake. While I agree that choosing either of these Tea Partiers is indeed a mistake, I think the reasoning is far different. Many Republicans, Cruz included, argued that the reason that Romney lost was because he "didn't stand for principle" (read: flip-flopped too much and wasn't as far-right). So, their response to running a fairly "moderate" candidate was to prop up a candidate who passes a purity test, which I think differs quite severely than choosing default candidate Romney.

Now, I don't think there's any question that some of the same flawed logic is present. The American public, by and large, supports progressive policies. Many want a minimum wage, a public option, tax hikes on the rich, etc. The reason why they haven't gotten those results is a whole other story (*cough*Citizens United*cough*).
~JohnMaynardKeynes

"The sight of my succulent backside acts as a sedative for the beholder. It soothes the pain of life and makes all which hurts seem like bliss. I urge all those stressed by ridiculous drama on DDO which will never affect your real life to gaze upon my cheeks for they will make you have an excitement and joy you've never felt before." -- Dr. Dennybug

Founder of the BSH-YYW Fan Club
Founder of the Barkalotti
Stand with Dogs and Economics
birdlandmemories
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3/11/2014 5:46:46 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/10/2014 10:33:39 AM, inferno wrote:
I have 5 of em right here today.
1) Mr Cruz
2)Tom Ryan
3) Rand Paul
4)Chris Christie
5)Jeb Bush

Which one of these Republican All Stars do you want running the US in 2016.
Tell us please. =)

Ted Cruz or Rand Paul. Not one of the Bushes again.
Ashton
monty1
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3/12/2014 1:04:08 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/11/2014 5:31:45 PM, JohnMaynardKeynes wrote:
At 3/11/2014 12:00:10 PM, monty1 wrote:
If Repub supporters are getting behind Ted Cruz and Rand Paul then they learned nothing for the Romney experience.

Dem supporters shouldn't debate them, Cruz and Paul are Dem secret weapons that will both blow up in the Repub's faces. Dems couldn't wish for better choices because it's their best chance against the Repubs as it sits right now.

Sadly, neither of them will get far as teabaggery is disintegrating and will have almost completely before 2016.

The Repubs must find an acceptable mainstream candidate soon. I really hope they can as the halfassed Dem/Repub power struggle is not accomplishing anything for the majority of the people. A Repub pres with both sides of congress going Repub would once and for all destroy their own ideology that is much too far slanted toward the wealthy. That would destroy the last faint hope of America joining the world and being economically progressive once again. Thereby weakening the US to the point where it would become less and less a threat to world peace.

Go Ted Cruz! Go Rand Paul!

I agree with everything you said except for a few things.

You said, if I'm understanding you correctly, that the GOP choosing Paul or Cruz is analogous to having chosen Romney -- that is, if they chose Cruz or Paul, they would be making the same mistake. While I agree that choosing either of these Tea Partiers is indeed a mistake, I think the reasoning is far different. Many Republicans, Cruz included, argued that the reason that Romney lost was because he "didn't stand for principle" (read: flip-flopped too much and wasn't as far-right). So, their response to running a fairly "moderate" candidate was to prop up a candidate who passes a purity test, which I think differs quite severely than choosing default candidate Romney.

Now, I don't think there's any question that some of the same flawed logic is present. The American public, by and large, supports progressive policies. Many want a minimum wage, a public option, tax hikes on the rich, etc. The reason why they haven't gotten those results is a whole other story (*cough*Citizens United*cough*).

You're right in that it's hard to compare Cruz and Paul to Romney as far as their political platform goes. I'm not really attempting to do that though. I only think that the Repubs don't have a candidate that isn't fatally flawed and will have to finally choose the best of the choices they settle with going into the Repub primary debates for pres. I think it's just as clearly that problem this time as it was with Romney. In fact, Redstate and other rightist orgs were still hating Romney and banning anyone who supported him at the eleventh hour. They had fallen in love with the extremist crazies such as Bachmann, Cane, Santorum, etc. All impossible choices as a winner in the final November election of course.

I think that Cruz and Rand Paul are just as impossible as both are associated with teabaggery, even though it would appear that Paul is now attempting to somehow divorce himself from the extremism.

The GOP needs a mainstream logical alternative now, before it's too late. Is there one? Is there even one that could be acceptable to all the different factions which are infighting amongst themselves?
JohnMaynardKeynes
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3/12/2014 1:08:06 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/12/2014 1:04:08 PM, monty1 wrote:
At 3/11/2014 5:31:45 PM, JohnMaynardKeynes wrote:
At 3/11/2014 12:00:10 PM, monty1 wrote:
If Repub supporters are getting behind Ted Cruz and Rand Paul then they learned nothing for the Romney experience.

Dem supporters shouldn't debate them, Cruz and Paul are Dem secret weapons that will both blow up in the Repub's faces. Dems couldn't wish for better choices because it's their best chance against the Repubs as it sits right now.

Sadly, neither of them will get far as teabaggery is disintegrating and will have almost completely before 2016.

The Repubs must find an acceptable mainstream candidate soon. I really hope they can as the halfassed Dem/Repub power struggle is not accomplishing anything for the majority of the people. A Repub pres with both sides of congress going Repub would once and for all destroy their own ideology that is much too far slanted toward the wealthy. That would destroy the last faint hope of America joining the world and being economically progressive once again. Thereby weakening the US to the point where it would become less and less a threat to world peace.

Go Ted Cruz! Go Rand Paul!

I agree with everything you said except for a few things.

You said, if I'm understanding you correctly, that the GOP choosing Paul or Cruz is analogous to having chosen Romney -- that is, if they chose Cruz or Paul, they would be making the same mistake. While I agree that choosing either of these Tea Partiers is indeed a mistake, I think the reasoning is far different. Many Republicans, Cruz included, argued that the reason that Romney lost was because he "didn't stand for principle" (read: flip-flopped too much and wasn't as far-right). So, their response to running a fairly "moderate" candidate was to prop up a candidate who passes a purity test, which I think differs quite severely than choosing default candidate Romney.

Now, I don't think there's any question that some of the same flawed logic is present. The American public, by and large, supports progressive policies. Many want a minimum wage, a public option, tax hikes on the rich, etc. The reason why they haven't gotten those results is a whole other story (*cough*Citizens United*cough*).

You're right in that it's hard to compare Cruz and Paul to Romney as far as their political platform goes. I'm not really attempting to do that though. I only think that the Repubs don't have a candidate that isn't fatally flawed and will have to finally choose the best of the choices they settle with going into the Repub primary debates for pres. I think it's just as clearly that problem this time as it was with Romney. In fact, Redstate and other rightist orgs were still hating Romney and banning anyone who supported him at the eleventh hour. They had fallen in love with the extremist crazies such as Bachmann, Cane, Santorum, etc. All impossible choices as a winner in the final November election of course.

I think that Cruz and Rand Paul are just as impossible as both are associated with teabaggery, even though it would appear that Paul is now attempting to somehow divorce himself from the extremism.

The GOP needs a mainstream logical alternative now, before it's too late. Is there one? Is there even one that could be acceptable to all the different factions which are infighting amongst themselves?

You mean those right wing websites were banning pro-Romney people prior to the end of the primary season? I didn't hear about that. That's crazy!

You're right that it's very difficult for the Republicans to find a candidate to rally behind, especially amid the recent Christie scandals (did you hear about the 9/11 scandal? This guy is unbelievable). Oddly enough, I think Jeb Bush may be their guy -- either him, or Bobby Jindal. I would've said Rubio a few months ago, but he seems to be moving even further to the right as time goes on. Though his involvement in the Gang of 8 helped him with mainstream America, it significantly damaged his primary chances -- since many TeaPublicans are wedded to the idea that the bill was somehow "amnesty."
~JohnMaynardKeynes

"The sight of my succulent backside acts as a sedative for the beholder. It soothes the pain of life and makes all which hurts seem like bliss. I urge all those stressed by ridiculous drama on DDO which will never affect your real life to gaze upon my cheeks for they will make you have an excitement and joy you've never felt before." -- Dr. Dennybug

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inferno
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3/12/2014 3:39:33 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/10/2014 11:58:51 AM, JohnMaynardKeynes wrote:
At 3/10/2014 10:33:39 AM, inferno wrote:
I have 5 of em right here today.
1) Mr Cruz
2)Tom Ryan
3) Rand Paul
4)Chris Christie
5)Jeb Bush

Which one of these Republican All Stars do you want running the US in 2016.
Tell us please. =)

Cruz: Considering that I'm a democrat, I'd love for this guy to run and to be the nominee, haha. But in actuality, I think Mr. Cruz is far too radical, and his willingness to attack people in his own party is highly divisive -- in fact, the cause of the current civil war in the GOP.

Ryan: He's probably the most reasonable Republican in the field, though I don't think that is saying too much. His budgets, when it comes down to it, are extremely far-right. Newt Gingrich may have been right when he called them "right-wing social engineering." His budget a few years back, for instance, slashed government spending as a percentage of GDP to 15%, which would render discretionary spending at 1% of GDP. To put that in perspective, veteran's benefits currently account for 1%. At the same time, he would slash the top income tax rate and eliminate taxes on capital gains, which would have allowed Mitt Romney to pay virtually 0%, which I think is quite crazy.

Paul: I like his stances on foreign policy, civil liberties, and drones, though I'm unconvinced that he's as principled as his father on these issues, which worries me. He may be inclined to focus on his sound-money, gut-the-federal-government portion of his platform, which puts him roughly in the same position as Cruz.

Christie: The conventional wisdom is that Christie, alongside Hillary Clinton for the Democrats, are the candidates to beat, though Bridgegate put a minor (perhaps major) damper in that. I'm unconvinced that he could win the GOP nomination running as a so-called "moderate," though I'm also unconvinced that he is a moderate. This is the man who gave $18 million in breaks for the Super Bowl, but raised the retirement age for public employees and virtually destroyed their pensions -- and then bragged about it at CPAC. He displays himself as a no-nonsense moderate, and extols the virtues of sitting down with others on the opposite end of the spectrum and hashing out their differences, which in principle is great. However, can we really say that the guy who constantly raises his voice and tells people to "shut up" is a paragon of diplomacy?

Jeb Bush: All I can say is, we don't need another Bush! Please no! Granted, it would be difficult for him to be worse than his brother, and his father in the grand scheme of things was actually a fairly decent president (H.W., that is). Jeb may be the new candidate-to-beat with Christie's numbers dropping, but he's hardly a moderate, either. Isn't this the guy who wrote a book where he discussed immigration reform, and then not long after withdrew his support for it?

Absent from the list, I think, is Bobby Jindal, Marco Rubio, and Ben Carson (yes, that prayer breakfast was quite interesting!). The first two, of course, are almost for-sure candidates in 2016. The last is a bit of a wild card, but it could happen, right?

Ryan is the most polarizing of the list here.
JohnMaynardKeynes
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3/12/2014 4:06:13 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/12/2014 3:39:33 PM, inferno wrote:
At 3/10/2014 11:58:51 AM, JohnMaynardKeynes wrote:
At 3/10/2014 10:33:39 AM, inferno wrote:
I have 5 of em right here today.
1) Mr Cruz
2)Tom Ryan
3) Rand Paul
4)Chris Christie
5)Jeb Bush

Which one of these Republican All Stars do you want running the US in 2016.
Tell us please. =)

Cruz: Considering that I'm a democrat, I'd love for this guy to run and to be the nominee, haha. But in actuality, I think Mr. Cruz is far too radical, and his willingness to attack people in his own party is highly divisive -- in fact, the cause of the current civil war in the GOP.

Ryan: He's probably the most reasonable Republican in the field, though I don't think that is saying too much. His budgets, when it comes down to it, are extremely far-right. Newt Gingrich may have been right when he called them "right-wing social engineering." His budget a few years back, for instance, slashed government spending as a percentage of GDP to 15%, which would render discretionary spending at 1% of GDP. To put that in perspective, veteran's benefits currently account for 1%. At the same time, he would slash the top income tax rate and eliminate taxes on capital gains, which would have allowed Mitt Romney to pay virtually 0%, which I think is quite crazy.

Paul: I like his stances on foreign policy, civil liberties, and drones, though I'm unconvinced that he's as principled as his father on these issues, which worries me. He may be inclined to focus on his sound-money, gut-the-federal-government portion of his platform, which puts him roughly in the same position as Cruz.

Christie: The conventional wisdom is that Christie, alongside Hillary Clinton for the Democrats, are the candidates to beat, though Bridgegate put a minor (perhaps major) damper in that. I'm unconvinced that he could win the GOP nomination running as a so-called "moderate," though I'm also unconvinced that he is a moderate. This is the man who gave $18 million in breaks for the Super Bowl, but raised the retirement age for public employees and virtually destroyed their pensions -- and then bragged about it at CPAC. He displays himself as a no-nonsense moderate, and extols the virtues of sitting down with others on the opposite end of the spectrum and hashing out their differences, which in principle is great. However, can we really say that the guy who constantly raises his voice and tells people to "shut up" is a paragon of diplomacy?

Jeb Bush: All I can say is, we don't need another Bush! Please no! Granted, it would be difficult for him to be worse than his brother, and his father in the grand scheme of things was actually a fairly decent president (H.W., that is). Jeb may be the new candidate-to-beat with Christie's numbers dropping, but he's hardly a moderate, either. Isn't this the guy who wrote a book where he discussed immigration reform, and then not long after withdrew his support for it?

Absent from the list, I think, is Bobby Jindal, Marco Rubio, and Ben Carson (yes, that prayer breakfast was quite interesting!). The first two, of course, are almost for-sure candidates in 2016. The last is a bit of a wild card, but it could happen, right?

Ryan is the most polarizing of the list here.

What makes you say that? Is it his budgets? I agree that his budgets are quite radical, but I wouldn't say that he's more polarizing than Cruz.
~JohnMaynardKeynes

"The sight of my succulent backside acts as a sedative for the beholder. It soothes the pain of life and makes all which hurts seem like bliss. I urge all those stressed by ridiculous drama on DDO which will never affect your real life to gaze upon my cheeks for they will make you have an excitement and joy you've never felt before." -- Dr. Dennybug

Founder of the BSH-YYW Fan Club
Founder of the Barkalotti
Stand with Dogs and Economics
monty1
Posts: 1,084
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3/12/2014 6:18:22 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/12/2014 1:08:06 PM, JohnMaynardKeynes wrote:
At 3/12/2014 1:04:08 PM, monty1 wrote:
At 3/11/2014 5:31:45 PM, JohnMaynardKeynes wrote:
At 3/11/2014 12:00:10 PM, monty1 wrote:
If Repub supporters are getting behind Ted Cruz and Rand Paul then they learned nothing for the Romney experience.

Dem supporters shouldn't debate them, Cruz and Paul are Dem secret weapons that will both blow up in the Repub's faces. Dems couldn't wish for better choices because it's their best chance against the Repubs as it sits right now.

Sadly, neither of them will get far as teabaggery is disintegrating and will have almost completely before 2016.

The Repubs must find an acceptable mainstream candidate soon. I really hope they can as the halfassed Dem/Repub power struggle is not accomplishing anything for the majority of the people. A Repub pres with both sides of congress going Repub would once and for all destroy their own ideology that is much too far slanted toward the wealthy. That would destroy the last faint hope of America joining the world and being economically progressive once again. Thereby weakening the US to the point where it would become less and less a threat to world peace.

Go Ted Cruz! Go Rand Paul!

I agree with everything you said except for a few things.

You said, if I'm understanding you correctly, that the GOP choosing Paul or Cruz is analogous to having chosen Romney -- that is, if they chose Cruz or Paul, they would be making the same mistake. While I agree that choosing either of these Tea Partiers is indeed a mistake, I think the reasoning is far different. Many Republicans, Cruz included, argued that the reason that Romney lost was because he "didn't stand for principle" (read: flip-flopped too much and wasn't as far-right). So, their response to running a fairly "moderate" candidate was to prop up a candidate who passes a purity test, which I think differs quite severely than choosing default candidate Romney.

Now, I don't think there's any question that some of the same flawed logic is present. The American public, by and large, supports progressive policies. Many want a minimum wage, a public option, tax hikes on the rich, etc. The reason why they haven't gotten those results is a whole other story (*cough*Citizens United*cough*).

You're right in that it's hard to compare Cruz and Paul to Romney as far as their political platform goes. I'm not really attempting to do that though. I only think that the Repubs don't have a candidate that isn't fatally flawed and will have to finally choose the best of the choices they settle with going into the Repub primary debates for pres. I think it's just as clearly that problem this time as it was with Romney. In fact, Redstate and other rightist orgs were still hating Romney and banning anyone who supported him at the eleventh hour. They had fallen in love with the extremist crazies such as Bachmann, Cane, Santorum, etc. All impossible choices as a winner in the final November election of course.

I think that Cruz and Rand Paul are just as impossible as both are associated with teabaggery, even though it would appear that Paul is now attempting to somehow divorce himself from the extremism.

The GOP needs a mainstream logical alternative now, before it's too late. Is there one? Is there even one that could be acceptable to all the different factions which are infighting amongst themselves?


You mean those right wing websites were banning pro-Romney people prior to the end of the primary season? I didn't hear about that. That's crazy!

You're right that it's very difficult for the Republicans to find a candidate to rally behind, especially amid the recent Christie scandals (did you hear about the 9/11 scandal? This guy is unbelievable). Oddly enough, I think Jeb Bush may be their guy -- either him, or Bobby Jindal. I would've said Rubio a few months ago, but he seems to be moving even further to the right as time goes on. Though his involvement in the Gang of 8 helped him with mainstream America, it significantly damaged his primary chances -- since many TeaPublicans are wedded to the idea that the bill was somehow "amnesty."

Yes indeed Redstate banned people for supporting Romney but also the sensible guy with the very pretty daughter. Can't think of the name. As for Rubio, I'll have to take your word on him. I thought he could be acceptable. Jindal is a rodent, appearance wise and something as simple as that shouldn't destroy his chances but I'm pretty convinced it will. Christie seems to be toast now because of the scandal. Bust 3 would perhaps be the best choice IMO but we can't discount his "name" problem.
inferno
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3/14/2014 10:59:57 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/12/2014 6:18:22 PM, monty1 wrote:
At 3/12/2014 1:08:06 PM, JohnMaynardKeynes wrote:
At 3/12/2014 1:04:08 PM, monty1 wrote:
At 3/11/2014 5:31:45 PM, JohnMaynardKeynes wrote:
At 3/11/2014 12:00:10 PM, monty1 wrote:
If Repub supporters are getting behind Ted Cruz and Rand Paul then they learned nothing for the Romney experience.

Dem supporters shouldn't debate them, Cruz and Paul are Dem secret weapons that will both blow up in the Repub's faces. Dems couldn't wish for better choices because it's their best chance against the Repubs as it sits right now.

Sadly, neither of them will get far as teabaggery is disintegrating and will have almost completely before 2016.

The Repubs must find an acceptable mainstream candidate soon. I really hope they can as the halfassed Dem/Repub power struggle is not accomplishing anything for the majority of the people. A Repub pres with both sides of congress going Repub would once and for all destroy their own ideology that is much too far slanted toward the wealthy. That would destroy the last faint hope of America joining the world and being economically progressive once again. Thereby weakening the US to the point where it would become less and less a threat to world peace.

Go Ted Cruz! Go Rand Paul!

I agree with everything you said except for a few things.

You said, if I'm understanding you correctly, that the GOP choosing Paul or Cruz is analogous to having chosen Romney -- that is, if they chose Cruz or Paul, they would be making the same mistake. While I agree that choosing either of these Tea Partiers is indeed a mistake, I think the reasoning is far different. Many Republicans, Cruz included, argued that the reason that Romney lost was because he "didn't stand for principle" (read: flip-flopped too much and wasn't as far-right). So, their response to running a fairly "moderate" candidate was to prop up a candidate who passes a purity test, which I think differs quite severely than choosing default candidate Romney.

Now, I don't think there's any question that some of the same flawed logic is present. The American public, by and large, supports progressive policies. Many want a minimum wage, a public option, tax hikes on the rich, etc. The reason why they haven't gotten those results is a whole other story (*cough*Citizens United*cough*).

You're right in that it's hard to compare Cruz and Paul to Romney as far as their political platform goes. I'm not really attempting to do that though. I only think that the Repubs don't have a candidate that isn't fatally flawed and will have to finally choose the best of the choices they settle with going into the Repub primary debates for pres. I think it's just as clearly that problem this time as it was with Romney. In fact, Redstate and other rightist orgs were still hating Romney and banning anyone who supported him at the eleventh hour. They had fallen in love with the extremist crazies such as Bachmann, Cane, Santorum, etc. All impossible choices as a winner in the final November election of course.

I think that Cruz and Rand Paul are just as impossible as both are associated with teabaggery, even though it would appear that Paul is now attempting to somehow divorce himself from the extremism.

The GOP needs a mainstream logical alternative now, before it's too late. Is there one? Is there even one that could be acceptable to all the different factions which are infighting amongst themselves?


You mean those right wing websites were banning pro-Romney people prior to the end of the primary season? I didn't hear about that. That's crazy!

You're right that it's very difficult for the Republicans to find a candidate to rally behind, especially amid the recent Christie scandals (did you hear about the 9/11 scandal? This guy is unbelievable). Oddly enough, I think Jeb Bush may be their guy -- either him, or Bobby Jindal. I would've said Rubio a few months ago, but he seems to be moving even further to the right as time goes on. Though his involvement in the Gang of 8 helped him with mainstream America, it significantly damaged his primary chances -- since many TeaPublicans are wedded to the idea that the bill was somehow "amnesty."

Yes indeed Redstate banned people for supporting Romney but also the sensible guy with the very pretty daughter. Can't think of the name. As for Rubio, I'll have to take your word on him. I thought he could be acceptable. Jindal is a rodent, appearance wise and something as simple as that shouldn't destroy his chances but I'm pretty convinced it will. Christie seems to be toast now because of the scandal. Bust 3 would perhaps be the best choice IMO but we can't discount his "name" problem.

Now which one of these guys can get minorities to vote for them over a Democrat.
monty1
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3/14/2014 12:11:28 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Can't answer your question as regards Rubio. As far as I know he's halfassed sane at least and he has good looks so he could be a possible. Jindal, again is seriously flawed because he looks like a rodent and especially after that State of the Nation rebuttal where he literally skittered up to the camera. T.V. appearance is absolutely essential. Bush 3? The name problem but he would be my first choice. Perhaphs equal to Paul Ryan?
1Historygenius
Posts: 1,639
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3/14/2014 9:26:39 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/10/2014 11:09:27 AM, tylergraham95 wrote:
At 3/10/2014 11:06:21 AM, inferno wrote:
At 3/10/2014 11:00:21 AM, tylergraham95 wrote:
At 3/10/2014 10:33:39 AM, inferno wrote:
I have 5 of em right here today.
1) Mr Cruz

Haha. No. Ted Cruz is not a natural born citizen (as far as I know) and is just waaaaay too radical and idiotic.

2)Tom Ryan

Who is this?

3) Rand Paul

No thank you. He's like a sh*ttier version of his crazy father.

4)Chris Christie

An okay candidate. A moderate republican with a mostly good track record (other than the recent fiasco). He probably wouldn't win, though, because the republican party is so freaking radicalized.

5)Jeb Bush

A) I thought he retired from politics?

B) Even if he didn't, dear god no. His policies were always about stopping action, not taking action.

Why do presidents always have to take action. They can be very successful through doing less than more doing more.


Which one of these Republican All Stars do you want running the US in 2016.
Tell us please. =)

Idk if I would call these guys "All Stars."

Let's just get zombie Nixon and re-elect him.

Paul Ryan that is. Excuse me for that mishap there.

Oh dear lord no.

If this really is the prospective candidate pool, then the Republican party is down the tube. McCain was the last of the good, moderate, Republicans.

I would rather elect Barbra Bush than Ted Cruz or Paul Ryan.
"The chief business of the American people is business." - Calvin Coolidge

Latest debate - Reagan was a better President than Obama: http://www.debate.org...
Neil1
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3/15/2014 7:09:13 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/10/2014 10:33:39 AM, inferno wrote:
I have 5 of em right here today.
1) Mr Cruz
2)Tom Ryan
3) Rand Paul
4)Chris Christie
5)Jeb Bush

Which one of these Republican All Stars do you want running the US in 2016.
Tell us please. =)

The hell with the Republicans, they are and will always be losers......can you say Hillary Clinton 2016!
ConservativePolitico
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3/15/2014 7:41:12 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/15/2014 7:09:13 PM, Neil1 wrote:
At 3/10/2014 10:33:39 AM, inferno wrote:
I have 5 of em right here today.
1) Mr Cruz
2)Tom Ryan
3) Rand Paul
4)Chris Christie
5)Jeb Bush

Which one of these Republican All Stars do you want running the US in 2016.
Tell us please. =)

The hell with the Republicans, they are and will always be losers......can you say Hillary Clinton 2016!

Funny considering we have the House and are poised to take the Senate...
inferno
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3/18/2014 10:24:56 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/11/2014 10:28:33 AM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
You people are idiots. Ted Cruz and Rand Paul are the only ones qualified to be President.

Limited government, free markets, individual liberty. Yeah, so fvcking extreme!!!! Hey, Founding fathers blew off heads over a 3% sales tax.

Ted Cruz is a Princeton / Harvard University Magna Cum Laude Honors graduate, worldwide debate champion, Supreme Court litigator, Solicitor General, Chief Justice law clerk, joint professor, and U.S. Senator.

Ted Cruz is a common sense fighter for liberty.

Ted Cruz is not gonna win anything. Paul is too extreme.
inferno
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3/18/2014 10:25:42 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/11/2014 10:53:24 AM, tylergraham95 wrote:
At 3/11/2014 10:28:33 AM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
Ted Cruz is a common sense fighter for liberty.



LOL Would you debate me on the following topic "Ted Cruz fights only for liberty"

Cruz is a racist.