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I told you so - On Crimea.

Jifpop09
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3/23/2014 7:16:32 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Alright, it feels so good to be right. International inspectors have linked voter fraud to Pro Russian groups, who are believed to be funded by Russia. Now, I don't want to say I told you so, but, I told you so. Now there is absolutely no arguments left standing on Russia's part. I told you that at least 40% would vote no. If the first 4 violations of international law were not enough....

1. Russia recognized Ukraine-Crimea sovereignty over an international treaty.

2. The Ukraine constitution declares that all citizens can vote in referendums.

3. Nations may only secede if they are being oppressed politically or physically.

4. Referendums need to be internationally supervised.

And now Russian is linked to voter fraud. Ha ma la, I was right. Now here is the true reasoning Russia invaded, and not to protect ethnic Russians...

1. To secure petroleum shipping, which comprises 65% of Russia's exports.

2. To maintain the black fleet, which is based in Sevastopol, and responsible for guarding black sea oil.

3. To have a launch pad for Russia oil rigging.

Practically, if Crimea turned over to the EU, then Russia's economy would be cut in half. Now I have another question. Can we blame Russia, as petroleum is relied on to feed half of Russia? I don't think its an excuse. Yes, Russia would of been screwed, but that's capitalism.
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Jifpop09
Posts: 2,243
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3/23/2014 7:20:45 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
One more question. Why the Fuk are Conservatives defending Russia? Its like a plaque. The republican party issues a statement of partial support, and before you know it, every republican in America is advocating for Russia. Are they blind sheep, or do they have any independent thought?
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Skepsikyma
Posts: 8,288
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3/23/2014 8:00:16 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/23/2014 7:20:45 PM, Jifpop09 wrote:
One more question. Why the Fuk are Conservatives defending Russia? Its like a plaque. The republican party issues a statement of partial support, and before you know it, every republican in America is advocating for Russia. Are they blind sheep, or do they have any independent thought?

Yeah, when I see a conservative go from some outdated, cold-war era attitude towards Russia to one of ardent support for everything Putin, I lose all respect for them. The morons who allow themselves to be manipulated so easily are a perfect example of why democracy isn't all that it's cut out to be.
"The Collectivist experiment is thoroughly suited (in appearance at least) to the Capitalist society which it proposes to replace. It works with the existing machinery of Capitalism, talks and thinks in the existing terms of Capitalism, appeals to just those appetites which Capitalism has aroused, and ridicules as fantastic and unheard-of just those things in society the memory of which Capitalism has killed among men wherever the blight of it has spread."
- Hilaire Belloc -
Jifpop09
Posts: 2,243
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3/23/2014 8:04:33 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/23/2014 8:00:16 PM, Skepsikyma wrote:
At 3/23/2014 7:20:45 PM, Jifpop09 wrote:
One more question. Why the Fuk are Conservatives defending Russia? Its like a plaque. The republican party issues a statement of partial support, and before you know it, every republican in America is advocating for Russia. Are they blind sheep, or do they have any independent thought?

Yeah, when I see a conservative go from some outdated, cold-war era attitude towards Russia to one of ardent support for everything Putin, I lose all respect for them. The morons who allow themselves to be manipulated so easily are a perfect example of why democracy isn't all that it's cut out to be.

Russia is one of the most oppressive places on earth. A couple fun sources showing how Russia is little better then the Soviet Union...

http://en.rsf.org...

http://www.heritage.org...

http://cpi.transparency.org...
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Skepsikyma
Posts: 8,288
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3/23/2014 8:14:29 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/23/2014 8:04:33 PM, Jifpop09 wrote:
At 3/23/2014 8:00:16 PM, Skepsikyma wrote:
At 3/23/2014 7:20:45 PM, Jifpop09 wrote:
One more question. Why the Fuk are Conservatives defending Russia? Its like a plaque. The republican party issues a statement of partial support, and before you know it, every republican in America is advocating for Russia. Are they blind sheep, or do they have any independent thought?

Yeah, when I see a conservative go from some outdated, cold-war era attitude towards Russia to one of ardent support for everything Putin, I lose all respect for them. The morons who allow themselves to be manipulated so easily are a perfect example of why democracy isn't all that it's cut out to be.

Russia is one of the most oppressive places on earth. A couple fun sources showing how Russia is little better then the Soviet Union...

http://en.rsf.org...

http://www.heritage.org...

http://cpi.transparency.org...

Yeah, I agree that it's oppressive. But until a year or so ago, most conservatives that I knew seemed to have some vague impression that the commies were still in charge and, without knowing ANYTHING about Russia, they somehow knew that Russia is bad. Now, for a bunch of utterly vacuous reason's, they've done an about-face without actually knowing anything about Russia's situation. They just have a hard-on for the repression of homosexuals, Putin's bizarre machismo, and the punting around of smaller countries.
"The Collectivist experiment is thoroughly suited (in appearance at least) to the Capitalist society which it proposes to replace. It works with the existing machinery of Capitalism, talks and thinks in the existing terms of Capitalism, appeals to just those appetites which Capitalism has aroused, and ridicules as fantastic and unheard-of just those things in society the memory of which Capitalism has killed among men wherever the blight of it has spread."
- Hilaire Belloc -
Jifpop09
Posts: 2,243
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3/23/2014 8:19:36 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/23/2014 8:14:29 PM, Skepsikyma wrote:
At 3/23/2014 8:04:33 PM, Jifpop09 wrote:
At 3/23/2014 8:00:16 PM, Skepsikyma wrote:
At 3/23/2014 7:20:45 PM, Jifpop09 wrote:
One more question. Why the Fuk are Conservatives defending Russia? Its like a plaque. The republican party issues a statement of partial support, and before you know it, every republican in America is advocating for Russia. Are they blind sheep, or do they have any independent thought?

Yeah, when I see a conservative go from some outdated, cold-war era attitude towards Russia to one of ardent support for everything Putin, I lose all respect for them. The morons who allow themselves to be manipulated so easily are a perfect example of why democracy isn't all that it's cut out to be.

Russia is one of the most oppressive places on earth. A couple fun sources showing how Russia is little better then the Soviet Union...

http://en.rsf.org...

http://www.heritage.org...

http://cpi.transparency.org...

Yeah, I agree that it's oppressive. But until a year or so ago, most conservatives that I knew seemed to have some vague impression that the commies were still in charge and, without knowing ANYTHING about Russia, they somehow knew that Russia is bad. Now, for a bunch of utterly vacuous reason's, they've done an about-face without actually knowing anything about Russia's situation. They just have a hard-on for the repression of homosexuals, Putin's bizarre machismo, and the punting around of smaller countries.

This happens a lot within the republican party, and within my opinion, more then the democrat party. The republicans issue a statement, and now it is a core belief of every conservative. Brainwashing tactics? Maybe.
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monty1
Posts: 1,084
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3/23/2014 10:09:21 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/23/2014 7:16:32 PM, Jifpop09 wrote:
Alright, it feels so good to be right. International inspectors have linked voter fraud to Pro Russian groups, who are believed to be funded by Russia. Now, I don't want to say I told you so, but, I told you so. Now there is absolutely no arguments left standing on Russia's part. I told you that at least 40% would vote no. If the first 4 violations of international law were not enough....

1. Russia recognized Ukraine-Crimea sovereignty over an international treaty.

2. The Ukraine constitution declares that all citizens can vote in referendums.

3. Nations may only secede if they are being oppressed politically or physically.

4. Referendums need to be internationally supervised.

And now Russian is linked to voter fraud. Ha ma la, I was right. Now here is the true reasoning Russia invaded, and not to protect ethnic Russians...

1. To secure petroleum shipping, which comprises 65% of Russia's exports.

2. To maintain the black fleet, which is based in Sevastopol, and responsible for guarding black sea oil.

3. To have a launch pad for Russia oil rigging.

Practically, if Crimea turned over to the EU, then Russia's economy would be cut in half. Now I have another question. Can we blame Russia, as petroleum is relied on to feed half of Russia? I don't think its an excuse. Yes, Russia would of been screwed, but that's capitalism.

And I told you not to keep believing U.S. propaganda lies. The referendum was over 95% and there is no Russian troops massed along the Ukraine border. And besides that, the Iraq was the worst case of aggression against a small country since the Nazi invasion of Poland in 1939.

Anybody who still trust U.S. propaganda since the Iraq war needs some serious psychiatric help.

(not saying that you're crazy)
Jifpop09
Posts: 2,243
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3/23/2014 10:15:10 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/23/2014 10:09:21 PM, monty1 wrote:
At 3/23/2014 7:16:32 PM, Jifpop09 wrote:
Alright, it feels so good to be right. International inspectors have linked voter fraud to Pro Russian groups, who are believed to be funded by Russia. Now, I don't want to say I told you so, but, I told you so. Now there is absolutely no arguments left standing on Russia's part. I told you that at least 40% would vote no. If the first 4 violations of international law were not enough....

1. Russia recognized Ukraine-Crimea sovereignty over an international treaty.

2. The Ukraine constitution declares that all citizens can vote in referendums.

3. Nations may only secede if they are being oppressed politically or physically.

4. Referendums need to be internationally supervised.

And now Russian is linked to voter fraud. Ha ma la, I was right. Now here is the true reasoning Russia invaded, and not to protect ethnic Russians...

1. To secure petroleum shipping, which comprises 65% of Russia's exports.

2. To maintain the black fleet, which is based in Sevastopol, and responsible for guarding black sea oil.

3. To have a launch pad for Russia oil rigging.

Practically, if Crimea turned over to the EU, then Russia's economy would be cut in half. Now I have another question. Can we blame Russia, as petroleum is relied on to feed half of Russia? I don't think its an excuse. Yes, Russia would of been screwed, but that's capitalism.

And I told you not to keep believing U.S. propaganda lies. The referendum was over 95% and there is no Russian troops massed along the Ukraine border. And besides that, the Iraq was the worst case of aggression against a small country since the Nazi invasion of Poland in 1939.

Anybody who still trust U.S. propaganda since the Iraq war needs some serious psychiatric help.

(not saying that you're crazy)

You are so stupid. The US is only a couple ranks behind yours in media freedom, and I use British BBC as my news source. EVEN YOUR OWN MEDIA SAYS SO. There are satellite images, pictures, confirmations, what else do you need you ignorant fuk?And if Iraq was so bad, WHY THE FUK DID CANADA JOIN THE COALITION. Oh, and if Kosovo was so bad WHY THE FUK WAS CANADA THE SECOND LARGEST NATO CONTRIBUTER IN PERSONNEL. The US was actually the smallest contributer, but you are to much of an idiot to realize facts.
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monty1
Posts: 1,084
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3/23/2014 10:20:31 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/23/2014 10:15:10 PM, Jifpop09 wrote:
At 3/23/2014 10:09:21 PM, monty1 wrote:
At 3/23/2014 7:16:32 PM, Jifpop09 wrote:
Alright, it feels so good to be right. International inspectors have linked voter fraud to Pro Russian groups, who are believed to be funded by Russia. Now, I don't want to say I told you so, but, I told you so. Now there is absolutely no arguments left standing on Russia's part. I told you that at least 40% would vote no. If the first 4 violations of international law were not enough....

1. Russia recognized Ukraine-Crimea sovereignty over an international treaty.

2. The Ukraine constitution declares that all citizens can vote in referendums.

3. Nations may only secede if they are being oppressed politically or physically.

4. Referendums need to be internationally supervised.

And now Russian is linked to voter fraud. Ha ma la, I was right. Now here is the true reasoning Russia invaded, and not to protect ethnic Russians...

1. To secure petroleum shipping, which comprises 65% of Russia's exports.

2. To maintain the black fleet, which is based in Sevastopol, and responsible for guarding black sea oil.

3. To have a launch pad for Russia oil rigging.

Practically, if Crimea turned over to the EU, then Russia's economy would be cut in half. Now I have another question. Can we blame Russia, as petroleum is relied on to feed half of Russia? I don't think its an excuse. Yes, Russia would of been screwed, but that's capitalism.

And I told you not to keep believing U.S. propaganda lies. The referendum was over 95% and there is no Russian troops massed along the Ukraine border. And besides that, the Iraq was the worst case of aggression against a small country since the Nazi invasion of Poland in 1939.

Anybody who still trust U.S. propaganda since the Iraq war needs some serious psychiatric help.

(not saying that you're crazy)

You are so stupid. The US is only a couple ranks behind yours in media freedom, and I use British BBC as my news source. EVEN YOUR OWN MEDIA SAYS SO. There are satellite images, pictures, confirmations, what else do you need you ignorant fuk?And if Iraq was so bad, WHY THE FUK DID CANADA JOIN THE COALITION. Oh, and if Kosovo was so bad WHY THE FUK WAS CANADA THE SECOND LARGEST NATO CONTRIBUTER IN PERSONNEL. The US was actually the smallest contributer, but you are to much of an idiot to realize facts.

Take two aspirins and call me in the morning!
Jifpop09
Posts: 2,243
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3/23/2014 10:24:47 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/23/2014 10:20:31 PM, monty1 wrote:
At 3/23/2014 10:15:10 PM, Jifpop09 wrote:
At 3/23/2014 10:09:21 PM, monty1 wrote:
At 3/23/2014 7:16:32 PM, Jifpop09 wrote:
Alright, it feels so good to be right. International inspectors have linked voter fraud to Pro Russian groups, who are believed to be funded by Russia. Now, I don't want to say I told you so, but, I told you so. Now there is absolutely no arguments left standing on Russia's part. I told you that at least 40% would vote no. If the first 4 violations of international law were not enough....

1. Russia recognized Ukraine-Crimea sovereignty over an international treaty.

2. The Ukraine constitution declares that all citizens can vote in referendums.

3. Nations may only secede if they are being oppressed politically or physically.

4. Referendums need to be internationally supervised.

And now Russian is linked to voter fraud. Ha ma la, I was right. Now here is the true reasoning Russia invaded, and not to protect ethnic Russians...

1. To secure petroleum shipping, which comprises 65% of Russia's exports.

2. To maintain the black fleet, which is based in Sevastopol, and responsible for guarding black sea oil.

3. To have a launch pad for Russia oil rigging.

Practically, if Crimea turned over to the EU, then Russia's economy would be cut in half. Now I have another question. Can we blame Russia, as petroleum is relied on to feed half of Russia? I don't think its an excuse. Yes, Russia would of been screwed, but that's capitalism.

And I told you not to keep believing U.S. propaganda lies. The referendum was over 95% and there is no Russian troops massed along the Ukraine border. And besides that, the Iraq was the worst case of aggression against a small country since the Nazi invasion of Poland in 1939.

Anybody who still trust U.S. propaganda since the Iraq war needs some serious psychiatric help.

(not saying that you're crazy)

You are so stupid. The US is only a couple ranks behind yours in media freedom, and I use British BBC as my news source. EVEN YOUR OWN MEDIA SAYS SO. There are satellite images, pictures, confirmations, what else do you need you ignorant fuk?And if Iraq was so bad, WHY THE FUK DID CANADA JOIN THE COALITION? Oh, and if Kosovo was so bad WHY THE FUK WAS CANADA THE SECOND LARGEST NATO CONTRIBUTER IN PERSONNEL? The US was actually the smallest contributer, but you are to much of an idiot to realize facts.

Take two aspirins and call me in the morning!

Or, you literally have nothing to say to that, because I had just proven that if you blame the US for these actions, then you have to blame Canada. That's my intelligent, non-aggressive response. Can you answer me those above questions please? I will reply tomorrow.
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monty1
Posts: 1,084
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3/23/2014 10:27:28 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/23/2014 10:24:47 PM, Jifpop09 wrote:
At 3/23/2014 10:20:31 PM, monty1 wrote:
At 3/23/2014 10:15:10 PM, Jifpop09 wrote:
At 3/23/2014 10:09:21 PM, monty1 wrote:
At 3/23/2014 7:16:32 PM, Jifpop09 wrote:
Alright, it feels so good to be right. International inspectors have linked voter fraud to Pro Russian groups, who are believed to be funded by Russia. Now, I don't want to say I told you so, but, I told you so. Now there is absolutely no arguments left standing on Russia's part. I told you that at least 40% would vote no. If the first 4 violations of international law were not enough....

1. Russia recognized Ukraine-Crimea sovereignty over an international treaty.

2. The Ukraine constitution declares that all citizens can vote in referendums.

3. Nations may only secede if they are being oppressed politically or physically.

4. Referendums need to be internationally supervised.

And now Russian is linked to voter fraud. Ha ma la, I was right. Now here is the true reasoning Russia invaded, and not to protect ethnic Russians...

1. To secure petroleum shipping, which comprises 65% of Russia's exports.

2. To maintain the black fleet, which is based in Sevastopol, and responsible for guarding black sea oil.

3. To have a launch pad for Russia oil rigging.

Practically, if Crimea turned over to the EU, then Russia's economy would be cut in half. Now I have another question. Can we blame Russia, as petroleum is relied on to feed half of Russia? I don't think its an excuse. Yes, Russia would of been screwed, but that's capitalism.

And I told you not to keep believing U.S. propaganda lies. The referendum was over 95% and there is no Russian troops massed along the Ukraine border. And besides that, the Iraq was the worst case of aggression against a small country since the Nazi invasion of Poland in 1939.

Anybody who still trust U.S. propaganda since the Iraq war needs some serious psychiatric help.

(not saying that you're crazy)

You are so stupid. The US is only a couple ranks behind yours in media freedom, and I use British BBC as my news source. EVEN YOUR OWN MEDIA SAYS SO. There are satellite images, pictures, confirmations, what else do you need you ignorant fuk?And if Iraq was so bad, WHY THE FUK DID CANADA JOIN THE COALITION? Oh, and if Kosovo was so bad WHY THE FUK WAS CANADA THE SECOND LARGEST NATO CONTRIBUTER IN PERSONNEL? The US was actually the smallest contributer, but you are to much of an idiot to realize facts.

Take two aspirins and call me in the morning!

Or, you literally have nothing to say to that, because I had just proven that if you blame the US for these actions, then you have to blame Canada. That's my intelligent, non-aggressive response. Can you answer me those above questions please? I will reply tomorrow.

Yes, I think tomorrow after a good night's sleep will be much better for you.
Haroush
Posts: 1,329
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3/24/2014 7:21:29 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/23/2014 10:09:21 PM, monty1 wrote:
At 3/23/2014 7:16:32 PM, Jifpop09 wrote:
Alright, it feels so good to be right. International inspectors have linked voter fraud to Pro Russian groups, who are believed to be funded by Russia. Now, I don't want to say I told you so, but, I told you so. Now there is absolutely no arguments left standing on Russia's part. I told you that at least 40% would vote no. If the first 4 violations of international law were not enough....

1. Russia recognized Ukraine-Crimea sovereignty over an international treaty.

2. The Ukraine constitution declares that all citizens can vote in referendums.

3. Nations may only secede if they are being oppressed politically or physically.

4. Referendums need to be internationally supervised.

And now Russian is linked to voter fraud. Ha ma la, I was right. Now here is the true reasoning Russia invaded, and not to protect ethnic Russians...

1. To secure petroleum shipping, which comprises 65% of Russia's exports.

2. To maintain the black fleet, which is based in Sevastopol, and responsible for guarding black sea oil.

3. To have a launch pad for Russia oil rigging.

Practically, if Crimea turned over to the EU, then Russia's economy would be cut in half. Now I have another question. Can we blame Russia, as petroleum is relied on to feed half of Russia? I don't think its an excuse. Yes, Russia would of been screwed, but that's capitalism.

And I told you not to keep believing U.S. propaganda lies. The referendum was over 95% and there is no Russian troops massed along the Ukraine border. And besides that, the Iraq was the worst case of aggression against a small country since the Nazi invasion of Poland in 1939.

Anybody who still trust U.S. propaganda since the Iraq war needs some serious psychiatric help.

(not saying that you're crazy)

Monty, was 9/11 an inside job?
monty1
Posts: 1,084
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3/24/2014 8:36:10 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/24/2014 7:21:29 PM, Haroush wrote:
At 3/23/2014 10:09:21 PM, monty1 wrote:
At 3/23/2014 7:16:32 PM, Jifpop09 wrote:
Alright, it feels so good to be right. International inspectors have linked voter fraud to Pro Russian groups, who are believed to be funded by Russia. Now, I don't want to say I told you so, but, I told you so. Now there is absolutely no arguments left standing on Russia's part. I told you that at least 40% would vote no. If the first 4 violations of international law were not enough....

1. Russia recognized Ukraine-Crimea sovereignty over an international treaty.

2. The Ukraine constitution declares that all citizens can vote in referendums.

3. Nations may only secede if they are being oppressed politically or physically.

4. Referendums need to be internationally supervised.

And now Russian is linked to voter fraud. Ha ma la, I was right. Now here is the true reasoning Russia invaded, and not to protect ethnic Russians...

1. To secure petroleum shipping, which comprises 65% of Russia's exports.

2. To maintain the black fleet, which is based in Sevastopol, and responsible for guarding black sea oil.

3. To have a launch pad for Russia oil rigging.

Practically, if Crimea turned over to the EU, then Russia's economy would be cut in half. Now I have another question. Can we blame Russia, as petroleum is relied on to feed half of Russia? I don't think its an excuse. Yes, Russia would of been screwed, but that's capitalism.

And I told you not to keep believing U.S. propaganda lies. The referendum was over 95% and there is no Russian troops massed along the Ukraine border. And besides that, the Iraq was the worst case of aggression against a small country since the Nazi invasion of Poland in 1939.

Anybody who still trust U.S. propaganda since the Iraq war needs some serious psychiatric help.

(not saying that you're crazy)

Monty, was 9/11 an inside job?

If you're asking in respect to the conspiracy theories I've heard being batted around, NO! Without elaborating that's the best I can do.

There is something else worth mentioning though. I think there's little doubt that Bush2 tried to use the 9/11 tragedy for his political goal of attacking Iraq. It's common knowledge that he wanted to do Iraq before going into Afghanistan.

I think that could be the starting point of all the conspiracy theories of it being an inside job. Crazy people took that fact and turned it into something completely ridiculous re. conspiracy theories.

9/11 was a revenge attack against the US for it's meddling in the ME which included support of the evil apartheid regime of Israel against the Palestinian people, as well as the US bombing war on Iraq called the Gulf war. There are other minor justifications claimed above and beyond those two also. Chief being the US support of the Saudi evil and oppressive monarchy. Those three can be juggled as to the impetus they provided to Osama. Some would rank them in a different order.

The inside job idea is pure conspiracy theorist bullsh-t.
Jifpop09
Posts: 2,243
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3/24/2014 8:52:42 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/24/2014 8:36:10 PM, monty1 wrote:
At 3/24/2014 7:21:29 PM, Haroush wrote:
At 3/23/2014 10:09:21 PM, monty1 wrote:
At 3/23/2014 7:16:32 PM, Jifpop09 wrote:
Alright, it feels so good to be right. International inspectors have linked voter fraud to Pro Russian groups, who are believed to be funded by Russia. Now, I don't want to say I told you so, but, I told you so. Now there is absolutely no arguments left standing on Russia's part. I told you that at least 40% would vote no. If the first 4 violations of international law were not enough....

1. Russia recognized Ukraine-Crimea sovereignty over an international treaty.

2. The Ukraine constitution declares that all citizens can vote in referendums.

3. Nations may only secede if they are being oppressed politically or physically.

4. Referendums need to be internationally supervised.

And now Russian is linked to voter fraud. Ha ma la, I was right. Now here is the true reasoning Russia invaded, and not to protect ethnic Russians...

1. To secure petroleum shipping, which comprises 65% of Russia's exports.

2. To maintain the black fleet, which is based in Sevastopol, and responsible for guarding black sea oil.

3. To have a launch pad for Russia oil rigging.

Practically, if Crimea turned over to the EU, then Russia's economy would be cut in half. Now I have another question. Can we blame Russia, as petroleum is relied on to feed half of Russia? I don't think its an excuse. Yes, Russia would of been screwed, but that's capitalism.

And I told you not to keep believing U.S. propaganda lies. The referendum was over 95% and there is no Russian troops massed along the Ukraine border. And besides that, the Iraq was the worst case of aggression against a small country since the Nazi invasion of Poland in 1939.

Anybody who still trust U.S. propaganda since the Iraq war needs some serious psychiatric help.

(not saying that you're crazy)

Monty, was 9/11 an inside job?

If you're asking in respect to the conspiracy theories I've heard being batted around, NO! Without elaborating that's the best I can do.

There is something else worth mentioning though. I think there's little doubt that Bush2 tried to use the 9/11 tragedy for his political goal of attacking Iraq. It's common knowledge that he wanted to do Iraq before going into Afghanistan.

I think that could be the starting point of all the conspiracy theories of it being an inside job. Crazy people took that fact and turned it into something completely ridiculous re. conspiracy theories.

9/11 was a revenge attack against the US for it's meddling in the ME which included support of the evil apartheid regime of Israel against the Palestinian people, as well as the US bombing war on Iraq called the Gulf war. There are other minor justifications claimed above and beyond those two also. Chief being the US support of the Saudi evil and oppressive monarchy. Those three can be juggled as to the impetus they provided to Osama. Some would rank them in a different order.

The inside job idea is pure conspiracy theorist bullsh-t.

You have still not responded to my three statements.

1. Canada was the second largest Nato contributor in Kosovo.

2. Canada invaded Iraq
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monty1
Posts: 1,084
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3/24/2014 8:59:41 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/24/2014 8:52:42 PM, Jifpop09 wrote:
At 3/24/2014 8:36:10 PM, monty1 wrote:
At 3/24/2014 7:21:29 PM, Haroush wrote:
At 3/23/2014 10:09:21 PM, monty1 wrote:
At 3/23/2014 7:16:32 PM, Jifpop09 wrote:
Alright, it feels so good to be right. International inspectors have linked voter fraud to Pro Russian groups, who are believed to be funded by Russia. Now, I don't want to say I told you so, but, I told you so. Now there is absolutely no arguments left standing on Russia's part. I told you that at least 40% would vote no. If the first 4 violations of international law were not enough....

1. Russia recognized Ukraine-Crimea sovereignty over an international treaty.

2. The Ukraine constitution declares that all citizens can vote in referendums.

3. Nations may only secede if they are being oppressed politically or physically.

4. Referendums need to be internationally supervised.

And now Russian is linked to voter fraud. Ha ma la, I was right. Now here is the true reasoning Russia invaded, and not to protect ethnic Russians...

1. To secure petroleum shipping, which comprises 65% of Russia's exports.

2. To maintain the black fleet, which is based in Sevastopol, and responsible for guarding black sea oil.

3. To have a launch pad for Russia oil rigging.

Practically, if Crimea turned over to the EU, then Russia's economy would be cut in half. Now I have another question. Can we blame Russia, as petroleum is relied on to feed half of Russia? I don't think its an excuse. Yes, Russia would of been screwed, but that's capitalism.

And I told you not to keep believing U.S. propaganda lies. The referendum was over 95% and there is no Russian troops massed along the Ukraine border. And besides that, the Iraq was the worst case of aggression against a small country since the Nazi invasion of Poland in 1939.

Anybody who still trust U.S. propaganda since the Iraq war needs some serious psychiatric help.

(not saying that you're crazy)

Monty, was 9/11 an inside job?

If you're asking in respect to the conspiracy theories I've heard being batted around, NO! Without elaborating that's the best I can do.

There is something else worth mentioning though. I think there's little doubt that Bush2 tried to use the 9/11 tragedy for his political goal of attacking Iraq. It's common knowledge that he wanted to do Iraq before going into Afghanistan.

I think that could be the starting point of all the conspiracy theories of it being an inside job. Crazy people took that fact and turned it into something completely ridiculous re. conspiracy theories.

9/11 was a revenge attack against the US for it's meddling in the ME which included support of the evil apartheid regime of Israel against the Palestinian people, as well as the US bombing war on Iraq called the Gulf war. There are other minor justifications claimed above and beyond those two also. Chief being the US support of the Saudi evil and oppressive monarchy. Those three can be juggled as to the impetus they provided to Osama. Some would rank them in a different order.

The inside job idea is pure conspiracy theorist bullsh-t.

You have still not responded to my three statements.

1. Canada was the second largest Nato contributor in Kosovo.

2. Canada invaded Iraq

Well, to start with it appears that you are so braindead stupid that you tell me you have three statements when you only list two! Duhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!

1. Canada was the second largest Nato contributor in the Kosovo war. Thank you for telling me that fact you silly mutt. Now go tell your mom that you think you're winning this debate.

Canada took part in the Gulf war but not in the second US led war against Iraq. Canada refused and that's something I'll be forever grateful Jean Chretien for because he had the intelligence and foresight to see that it was based on evil US lies.

In my home country of Russia we don't swallow the US propaganda on what Canada did and didn't do so easily.
monty1
Posts: 1,084
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3/24/2014 9:00:41 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
In my last post I said my home country was Russia but that was a typo. I obviously meant to say that my home country is Canada.
Jifpop09
Posts: 2,243
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3/24/2014 9:03:35 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/24/2014 8:59:41 PM, monty1 wrote:
At 3/24/2014 8:52:42 PM, Jifpop09 wrote:
At 3/24/2014 8:36:10 PM, monty1 wrote:
At 3/24/2014 7:21:29 PM, Haroush wrote:
At 3/23/2014 10:09:21 PM, monty1 wrote:
At 3/23/2014 7:16:32 PM, Jifpop09 wrote:
Alright, it feels so good to be right. International inspectors have linked voter fraud to Pro Russian groups, who are believed to be funded by Russia. Now, I don't want to say I told you so, but, I told you so. Now there is absolutely no arguments left standing on Russia's part. I told you that at least 40% would vote no. If the first 4 violations of international law were not enough....

1. Russia recognized Ukraine-Crimea sovereignty over an international treaty.

2. The Ukraine constitution declares that all citizens can vote in referendums.

3. Nations may only secede if they are being oppressed politically or physically.

4. Referendums need to be internationally supervised.

And now Russian is linked to voter fraud. Ha ma la, I was right. Now here is the true reasoning Russia invaded, and not to protect ethnic Russians...

1. To secure petroleum shipping, which comprises 65% of Russia's exports.

2. To maintain the black fleet, which is based in Sevastopol, and responsible for guarding black sea oil.

3. To have a launch pad for Russia oil rigging.

Practically, if Crimea turned over to the EU, then Russia's economy would be cut in half. Now I have another question. Can we blame Russia, as petroleum is relied on to feed half of Russia? I don't think its an excuse. Yes, Russia would of been screwed, but that's capitalism.

And I told you not to keep believing U.S. propaganda lies. The referendum was over 95% and there is no Russian troops massed along the Ukraine border. And besides that, the Iraq was the worst case of aggression against a small country since the Nazi invasion of Poland in 1939.

Anybody who still trust U.S. propaganda since the Iraq war needs some serious psychiatric help.

(not saying that you're crazy)

Monty, was 9/11 an inside job?

If you're asking in respect to the conspiracy theories I've heard being batted around, NO! Without elaborating that's the best I can do.

There is something else worth mentioning though. I think there's little doubt that Bush2 tried to use the 9/11 tragedy for his political goal of attacking Iraq. It's common knowledge that he wanted to do Iraq before going into Afghanistan.

I think that could be the starting point of all the conspiracy theories of it being an inside job. Crazy people took that fact and turned it into something completely ridiculous re. conspiracy theories.

9/11 was a revenge attack against the US for it's meddling in the ME which included support of the evil apartheid regime of Israel against the Palestinian people, as well as the US bombing war on Iraq called the Gulf war. There are other minor justifications claimed above and beyond those two also. Chief being the US support of the Saudi evil and oppressive monarchy. Those three can be juggled as to the impetus they provided to Osama. Some would rank them in a different order.

The inside job idea is pure conspiracy theorist bullsh-t.

You have still not responded to my three statements.

1. Canada was the second largest Nato contributor in Kosovo.

2. Canada invaded Iraq

Well, to start with it appears that you are so braindead stupid that you tell me you have three statements when you only list two! Duhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!

1. Canada was the second largest Nato contributor in the Kosovo war. Thank you for telling me that fact you silly mutt. Now go tell your mom that you think you're winning this debate.

Canada took part in the Gulf war but not in the second US led war against Iraq. Canada refused and that's something I'll be forever grateful Jean Chretien for because he had the intelligence and foresight to see that it was based on evil US lies.

In my home country of Russia we don't swallow the US propaganda on what Canada did and didn't do so easily.

US and Canada score nearly exactly the same as far as free media, and as far as the Iraq coalition, it was not just the US sir.

http://en.wikipedia.org...

And don't accuse me of watching US propaganda (which does not exist), as I get all my news from Britain AND Canada. I turn on BBC world service every night at 12
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ararmer1919
Posts: 362
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3/24/2014 9:38:12 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/24/2014 9:00:41 PM, monty1 wrote:
In my last post I said my home country was Russia but that was a typo. I obviously meant to say that my home country is Canada.

Your not fooling anyone. We all know your Russian. Also please stay on topic and refrain from personal insults. Thank you.
monty1
Posts: 1,084
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3/24/2014 9:48:01 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/24/2014 9:38:12 PM, ararmer1919 wrote:
At 3/24/2014 9:00:41 PM, monty1 wrote:
In my last post I said my home country was Russia but that was a typo. I obviously meant to say that my home country is Canada.

Your not fooling anyone. We all know your Russian. Also please stay on topic and refrain from personal insults. Thank you.

Damn, you're too smart for me. You got me that time. I told you I'm not Russian and I'm not but so what if I was a Russian?
Haroush
Posts: 1,329
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3/25/2014 12:02:00 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/24/2014 9:48:01 PM, monty1 wrote:
At 3/24/2014 9:38:12 PM, ararmer1919 wrote:
At 3/24/2014 9:00:41 PM, monty1 wrote:
In my last post I said my home country was Russia but that was a typo. I obviously meant to say that my home country is Canada.

Your not fooling anyone. We all know your Russian. Also please stay on topic and refrain from personal insults. Thank you.

Damn, you're too smart for me. You got me that time. I told you I'm not Russian and I'm not but so what if I was a Russian?

If you were Russian, you'd obviously be a homophobic, two faced, lead blooded, gone retarded individual in some peoples' eyes. Lol
wrichcirw
Posts: 11,196
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3/25/2014 7:13:33 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/24/2014 8:52:42 PM, Jifpop09 wrote:
At 3/24/2014 8:36:10 PM, monty1 wrote:
At 3/24/2014 7:21:29 PM, Haroush wrote:
At 3/23/2014 10:09:21 PM, monty1 wrote:
At 3/23/2014 7:16:32 PM, Jifpop09 wrote:
Alright, it feels so good to be right. International inspectors have linked voter fraud to Pro Russian groups, who are believed to be funded by Russia. Now, I don't want to say I told you so, but, I told you so. Now there is absolutely no arguments left standing on Russia's part. I told you that at least 40% would vote no. If the first 4 violations of international law were not enough....

1. Russia recognized Ukraine-Crimea sovereignty over an international treaty.

2. The Ukraine constitution declares that all citizens can vote in referendums.

3. Nations may only secede if they are being oppressed politically or physically.

4. Referendums need to be internationally supervised.

And now Russian is linked to voter fraud. Ha ma la, I was right. Now here is the true reasoning Russia invaded, and not to protect ethnic Russians...

1. To secure petroleum shipping, which comprises 65% of Russia's exports.

2. To maintain the black fleet, which is based in Sevastopol, and responsible for guarding black sea oil.

3. To have a launch pad for Russia oil rigging.

Practically, if Crimea turned over to the EU, then Russia's economy would be cut in half. Now I have another question. Can we blame Russia, as petroleum is relied on to feed half of Russia? I don't think its an excuse. Yes, Russia would of been screwed, but that's capitalism.

And I told you not to keep believing U.S. propaganda lies. The referendum was over 95% and there is no Russian troops massed along the Ukraine border. And besides that, the Iraq was the worst case of aggression against a small country since the Nazi invasion of Poland in 1939.

Anybody who still trust U.S. propaganda since the Iraq war needs some serious psychiatric help.

(not saying that you're crazy)

Monty, was 9/11 an inside job?

If you're asking in respect to the conspiracy theories I've heard being batted around, NO! Without elaborating that's the best I can do.

There is something else worth mentioning though. I think there's little doubt that Bush2 tried to use the 9/11 tragedy for his political goal of attacking Iraq. It's common knowledge that he wanted to do Iraq before going into Afghanistan.

I think that could be the starting point of all the conspiracy theories of it being an inside job. Crazy people took that fact and turned it into something completely ridiculous re. conspiracy theories.

9/11 was a revenge attack against the US for it's meddling in the ME which included support of the evil apartheid regime of Israel against the Palestinian people, as well as the US bombing war on Iraq called the Gulf war. There are other minor justifications claimed above and beyond those two also. Chief being the US support of the Saudi evil and oppressive monarchy. Those three can be juggled as to the impetus they provided to Osama. Some would rank them in a different order.

The inside job idea is pure conspiracy theorist bullsh-t.

You have still not responded to my three statements.

1. Canada was the second largest Nato contributor in Kosovo.

2. Canada invaded Iraq

Not sure why this is relevant. Canada is under the US sphere of influence. Anyone threatened while under the US sphere of influence would elicit a US response. Any time the US is compelled to take international action, those under the US sphere of influence are compelled to either support or at worst abstain...never oppose.

At 3/23/2014 10:15:10 PM, Jifpop09 wrote:

You are so stupid. The US is only a couple ranks behind yours in media freedom, and I use British BBC as my news source. EVEN YOUR OWN MEDIA SAYS SO. There are satellite images, pictures, confirmations, what else do you need you ignorant fuk?And if Iraq was so bad, WHY THE FUK DID CANADA JOIN THE COALITION. Oh, and if Kosovo was so bad WHY THE FUK WAS CANADA THE SECOND LARGEST NATO CONTRIBUTER IN PERSONNEL. The US was actually the smallest contributer, but you are to much of an idiot to realize facts.

This clearly reflects a weak argument.

UN action in Kosovo was headed by a US general, i.e. US controlled.

Just because the vast majority of troops stationed along the southern border of the 38th parallel are South Korean doesn't mean that it's not a US-led operation, which it is.
At 8/9/2013 9:41:24 AM, wrichcirw wrote:
If you are civil with me, I will be civil to you. If you decide to bring unreasonable animosity to bear in a reasonable discussion, then what would you expect other than to get flustered?
Jifpop09
Posts: 2,243
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3/25/2014 8:44:30 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/25/2014 7:13:33 AM, wrichcirw wrote:
At 3/24/2014 8:52:42 PM, Jifpop09 wrote:
At 3/24/2014 8:36:10 PM, monty1 wrote:
At 3/24/2014 7:21:29 PM, Haroush wrote:
At 3/23/2014 10:09:21 PM, monty1 wrote:
At 3/23/2014 7:16:32 PM, Jifpop09 wrote:
Alright, it feels so good to be right. International inspectors have linked voter fraud to Pro Russian groups, who are believed to be funded by Russia. Now, I don't want to say I told you so, but, I told you so. Now there is absolutely no arguments left standing on Russia's part. I told you that at least 40% would vote no. If the first 4 violations of international law were not enough....

1. Russia recognized Ukraine-Crimea sovereignty over an international treaty.

2. The Ukraine constitution declares that all citizens can vote in referendums.

3. Nations may only secede if they are being oppressed politically or physically.

4. Referendums need to be internationally supervised.

And now Russian is linked to voter fraud. Ha ma la, I was right. Now here is the true reasoning Russia invaded, and not to protect ethnic Russians...

1. To secure petroleum shipping, which comprises 65% of Russia's exports.

2. To maintain the black fleet, which is based in Sevastopol, and responsible for guarding black sea oil.

3. To have a launch pad for Russia oil rigging.

Practically, if Crimea turned over to the EU, then Russia's economy would be cut in half. Now I have another question. Can we blame Russia, as petroleum is relied on to feed half of Russia? I don't think its an excuse. Yes, Russia would of been screwed, but that's capitalism.

And I told you not to keep believing U.S. propaganda lies. The referendum was over 95% and there is no Russian troops massed along the Ukraine border. And besides that, the Iraq was the worst case of aggression against a small country since the Nazi invasion of Poland in 1939.

Anybody who still trust U.S. propaganda since the Iraq war needs some serious psychiatric help.

(not saying that you're crazy)

Monty, was 9/11 an inside job?

If you're asking in respect to the conspiracy theories I've heard being batted around, NO! Without elaborating that's the best I can do.

There is something else worth mentioning though. I think there's little doubt that Bush2 tried to use the 9/11 tragedy for his political goal of attacking Iraq. It's common knowledge that he wanted to do Iraq before going into Afghanistan.

I think that could be the starting point of all the conspiracy theories of it being an inside job. Crazy people took that fact and turned it into something completely ridiculous re. conspiracy theories.

9/11 was a revenge attack against the US for it's meddling in the ME which included support of the evil apartheid regime of Israel against the Palestinian people, as well as the US bombing war on Iraq called the Gulf war. There are other minor justifications claimed above and beyond those two also. Chief being the US support of the Saudi evil and oppressive monarchy. Those three can be juggled as to the impetus they provided to Osama. Some would rank them in a different order.

The inside job idea is pure conspiracy theorist bullsh-t.

You have still not responded to my three statements.

1. Canada was the second largest Nato contributor in Kosovo.

2. Canada invaded Iraq

Not sure why this is relevant. Canada is under the US sphere of influence. Anyone threatened while under the US sphere of influence would elicit a US response. Any time the US is compelled to take international action, those under the US sphere of influence are compelled to either support or at worst abstain...never oppose.

At 3/23/2014 10:15:10 PM, Jifpop09 wrote:

You are so stupid. The US is only a couple ranks behind yours in media freedom, and I use British BBC as my news source. EVEN YOUR OWN MEDIA SAYS SO. There are satellite images, pictures, confirmations, what else do you need you ignorant fuk?And if Iraq was so bad, WHY THE FUK DID CANADA JOIN THE COALITION. Oh, and if Kosovo was so bad WHY THE FUK WAS CANADA THE SECOND LARGEST NATO CONTRIBUTER IN PERSONNEL. The US was actually the smallest contributer, but you are to much of an idiot to realize facts.

This clearly reflects a weak argument.

UN action in Kosovo was headed by a US general, i.e. US controlled.

Just because the vast majority of troops stationed along the southern border of the 38th parallel are South Korean doesn't mean that it's not a US-led operation, which it is.

We were talking about NATO intervention. He supports UN intervention, but not nato, lol what?
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wrichcirw
Posts: 11,196
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3/25/2014 12:31:00 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/25/2014 8:44:30 AM, Jifpop09 wrote:
At 3/25/2014 7:13:33 AM, wrichcirw wrote:
At 3/24/2014 8:52:42 PM, Jifpop09 wrote:
At 3/24/2014 8:36:10 PM, monty1 wrote:
At 3/24/2014 7:21:29 PM, Haroush wrote:
At 3/23/2014 10:09:21 PM, monty1 wrote:
At 3/23/2014 7:16:32 PM, Jifpop09 wrote:
Alright, it feels so good to be right. International inspectors have linked voter fraud to Pro Russian groups, who are believed to be funded by Russia. Now, I don't want to say I told you so, but, I told you so. Now there is absolutely no arguments left standing on Russia's part. I told you that at least 40% would vote no. If the first 4 violations of international law were not enough....

1. Russia recognized Ukraine-Crimea sovereignty over an international treaty.

2. The Ukraine constitution declares that all citizens can vote in referendums.

3. Nations may only secede if they are being oppressed politically or physically.

4. Referendums need to be internationally supervised.

And now Russian is linked to voter fraud. Ha ma la, I was right. Now here is the true reasoning Russia invaded, and not to protect ethnic Russians...

1. To secure petroleum shipping, which comprises 65% of Russia's exports.

2. To maintain the black fleet, which is based in Sevastopol, and responsible for guarding black sea oil.

3. To have a launch pad for Russia oil rigging.

Practically, if Crimea turned over to the EU, then Russia's economy would be cut in half. Now I have another question. Can we blame Russia, as petroleum is relied on to feed half of Russia? I don't think its an excuse. Yes, Russia would of been screwed, but that's capitalism.

And I told you not to keep believing U.S. propaganda lies. The referendum was over 95% and there is no Russian troops massed along the Ukraine border. And besides that, the Iraq was the worst case of aggression against a small country since the Nazi invasion of Poland in 1939.

Anybody who still trust U.S. propaganda since the Iraq war needs some serious psychiatric help.

(not saying that you're crazy)

Monty, was 9/11 an inside job?

If you're asking in respect to the conspiracy theories I've heard being batted around, NO! Without elaborating that's the best I can do.

There is something else worth mentioning though. I think there's little doubt that Bush2 tried to use the 9/11 tragedy for his political goal of attacking Iraq. It's common knowledge that he wanted to do Iraq before going into Afghanistan.

I think that could be the starting point of all the conspiracy theories of it being an inside job. Crazy people took that fact and turned it into something completely ridiculous re. conspiracy theories.

9/11 was a revenge attack against the US for it's meddling in the ME which included support of the evil apartheid regime of Israel against the Palestinian people, as well as the US bombing war on Iraq called the Gulf war. There are other minor justifications claimed above and beyond those two also. Chief being the US support of the Saudi evil and oppressive monarchy. Those three can be juggled as to the impetus they provided to Osama. Some would rank them in a different order.

The inside job idea is pure conspiracy theorist bullsh-t.

You have still not responded to my three statements.

1. Canada was the second largest Nato contributor in Kosovo.

2. Canada invaded Iraq

Not sure why this is relevant. Canada is under the US sphere of influence. Anyone threatened while under the US sphere of influence would elicit a US response. Any time the US is compelled to take international action, those under the US sphere of influence are compelled to either support or at worst abstain...never oppose.

At 3/23/2014 10:15:10 PM, Jifpop09 wrote:

You are so stupid. The US is only a couple ranks behind yours in media freedom, and I use British BBC as my news source. EVEN YOUR OWN MEDIA SAYS SO. There are satellite images, pictures, confirmations, what else do you need you ignorant fuk?And if Iraq was so bad, WHY THE FUK DID CANADA JOIN THE COALITION. Oh, and if Kosovo was so bad WHY THE FUK WAS CANADA THE SECOND LARGEST NATO CONTRIBUTER IN PERSONNEL. The US was actually the smallest contributer, but you are to much of an idiot to realize facts.

This clearly reflects a weak argument.

UN action in Kosovo was headed by a US general, i.e. US controlled.

Just because the vast majority of troops stationed along the southern border of the 38th parallel are South Korean doesn't mean that it's not a US-led operation, which it is.

We were talking about NATO intervention. He supports UN intervention, but not nato, lol what?

well, obviously whatever you're alluding to is not in this thread.

As it is, IMHO NATO or the UN without the US doesn't matter.
At 8/9/2013 9:41:24 AM, wrichcirw wrote:
If you are civil with me, I will be civil to you. If you decide to bring unreasonable animosity to bear in a reasonable discussion, then what would you expect other than to get flustered?
monty1
Posts: 1,084
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3/25/2014 1:11:05 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
wrichcirw, you're right and I never said anything about UN intervention. And of course Nato would be nothing without the US. It practically is the US in the fact that it's used as a tool of aggression by the US.

jigpop is a kid that's so immersed in his dogma and false patriotism that there's no chance of getting a rational argument out of him. I'm pretty much ignoring him as a nuisance now, other than to pull his string once in a while.
Stephen_Hawkins
Posts: 5,316
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3/25/2014 2:44:18 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/24/2014 8:52:42 PM, Jifpop09 wrote:
You have still not responded to my three statements.

1. Canada was the second largest Nato contributor in Kosovo.

2. Canada invaded Iraq

...this is intelligent.

More importantly, the notion of voter fraud was bound to be brought up. Unfortunately, this isn't a great argument. If we look at how semi-authoritarian regimes (or authoritarian democracies, or hybrid states, or democratic authoritarian states, whatever you want to call it) use voter manipulation, the following 3 are most effective:

1) Buying votes. To happen in Crimea, within the time period, would have been next to impossible. Moreover, the Ukraine was accused of this before the fiasco. This also includes voter intimidation: while there is a military presence in Ukraine, and military personnel, no reliable journalist at Crimea has reported on there being a military presence in the voting booths.

2) Banning parties from running. This does not happen in a referendum - or, to the extent that it does, it does so in other nations (For example, an option to cede to Turkey was not in the referendum, but it does not make it illegal).

3) Rigged questions. While I think this has happened to an extent, it isn't a grave refutation of the legitimacy of the vote. A bias tends to happen with most states, even Western ones. In Crimea, there was a somewhat more bias question, but not to a delegitimizing degree.

The fourth obvious one is literal ballot stuffing, or plain lying about results. Bearing in mind ballot stuffers were caught and have been nulled in their votes, and claims of flat-out lying requires a decent source (which aren't ever given), this most intuitive tactic is unlikely. More so, when even Russia understands that doing so is a politically suicidal move, and no nation short of subsaharan dictators or South east Asian despots bother.

So, we can see that there is practically no chance of there being time for voter fraud among any commonly known mechanism to take place. Moreover, I would posit, those arguing that it *has* taken place, such as Ilya Somin, are unsubstantiated claims.

Now, to list the problems of the referendum:

1) The denial of the UN to observe the election was a severe issue. While some are going to want to note that Texas and Ohio did so in 2012 as well, I'm just going to criticise Crimea very harshly for this barrier. It is not remotely justified to bar the UN. At least they let in other observers to count ballots, but still.

2) It took place too quickly. Dead voters and similar may have occurred, and it is an easy column inch against the notion of free referenda.

Ultimately, though, what in principle was wrong with the referendum? The notion was the people was allowed to decide their state, and, while the issue may be murky, it is not clearly and irrefutably wrong for the referendum to have took place.

NOTE NONE OF THIS HAS REFERENCE TO RUSSIA'S FOREIGN POLICY. RUSSIA'S FOREIGN POLICY IS IRRELEVANT TO MY CASE, AND THE ONUS IS NOT ON ME TO DEFEND IT. I do not want to have to defend Russia, because it is irrelevant to the topic.
Give a man a fish, he'll eat for a day. Teach him how to be Gay, he'll positively influence the GDP.

Social Contract Theory debate: http://www.debate.org...
AnDoctuir
Posts: 11,060
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3/25/2014 2:48:33 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/23/2014 8:14:29 PM, Skepsikyma wrote:
At 3/23/2014 8:04:33 PM, Jifpop09 wrote:
At 3/23/2014 8:00:16 PM, Skepsikyma wrote:
At 3/23/2014 7:20:45 PM, Jifpop09 wrote:
One more question. Why the Fuk are Conservatives defending Russia? Its like a plaque. The republican party issues a statement of partial support, and before you know it, every republican in America is advocating for Russia. Are they blind sheep, or do they have any independent thought?

Yeah, when I see a conservative go from some outdated, cold-war era attitude towards Russia to one of ardent support for everything Putin, I lose all respect for them. The morons who allow themselves to be manipulated so easily are a perfect example of why democracy isn't all that it's cut out to be.

Russia is one of the most oppressive places on earth. A couple fun sources showing how Russia is little better then the Soviet Union...

http://en.rsf.org...

http://www.heritage.org...

http://cpi.transparency.org...

Yeah, I agree that it's oppressive. But until a year or so ago, most conservatives that I knew seemed to have some vague impression that the commies were still in charge and, without knowing ANYTHING about Russia, they somehow knew that Russia is bad. Now, for a bunch of utterly vacuous reason's, they've done an about-face without actually knowing anything about Russia's situation. They just have a hard-on for the repression of homosexuals, Putin's bizarre machismo, and the punting around of smaller countries.

This was a great post.
Jifpop09
Posts: 2,243
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3/25/2014 4:45:26 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/25/2014 12:31:00 PM, wrichcirw wrote:
At 3/25/2014 8:44:30 AM, Jifpop09 wrote:
At 3/25/2014 7:13:33 AM, wrichcirw wrote:
At 3/24/2014 8:52:42 PM, Jifpop09 wrote:
At 3/24/2014 8:36:10 PM, monty1 wrote:
At 3/24/2014 7:21:29 PM, Haroush wrote:
At 3/23/2014 10:09:21 PM, monty1 wrote:
At 3/23/2014 7:16:32 PM, Jifpop09 wrote:
Alright, it feels so good to be right. International inspectors have linked voter fraud to Pro Russian groups, who are believed to be funded by Russia. Now, I don't want to say I told you so, but, I told you so. Now there is absolutely no arguments left standing on Russia's part. I told you that at least 40% would vote no. If the first 4 violations of international law were not enough....

1. Russia recognized Ukraine-Crimea sovereignty over an international treaty.

2. The Ukraine constitution declares that all citizens can vote in referendums.

3. Nations may only secede if they are being oppressed politically or physically.

4. Referendums need to be internationally supervised.

And now Russian is linked to voter fraud. Ha ma la, I was right. Now here is the true reasoning Russia invaded, and not to protect ethnic Russians...

1. To secure petroleum shipping, which comprises 65% of Russia's exports.

2. To maintain the black fleet, which is based in Sevastopol, and responsible for guarding black sea oil.

3. To have a launch pad for Russia oil rigging.

Practically, if Crimea turned over to the EU, then Russia's economy would be cut in half. Now I have another question. Can we blame Russia, as petroleum is relied on to feed half of Russia? I don't think its an excuse. Yes, Russia would of been screwed, but that's capitalism.

And I told you not to keep believing U.S. propaganda lies. The referendum was over 95% and there is no Russian troops massed along the Ukraine border. And besides that, the Iraq was the worst case of aggression against a small country since the Nazi invasion of Poland in 1939.

Anybody who still trust U.S. propaganda since the Iraq war needs some serious psychiatric help.

(not saying that you're crazy)

Monty, was 9/11 an inside job?

If you're asking in respect to the conspiracy theories I've heard being batted around, NO! Without elaborating that's the best I can do.

There is something else worth mentioning though. I think there's little doubt that Bush2 tried to use the 9/11 tragedy for his political goal of attacking Iraq. It's common knowledge that he wanted to do Iraq before going into Afghanistan.

I think that could be the starting point of all the conspiracy theories of it being an inside job. Crazy people took that fact and turned it into something completely ridiculous re. conspiracy theories.

9/11 was a revenge attack against the US for it's meddling in the ME which included support of the evil apartheid regime of Israel against the Palestinian people, as well as the US bombing war on Iraq called the Gulf war. There are other minor justifications claimed above and beyond those two also. Chief being the US support of the Saudi evil and oppressive monarchy. Those three can be juggled as to the impetus they provided to Osama. Some would rank them in a different order.

The inside job idea is pure conspiracy theorist bullsh-t.

You have still not responded to my three statements.

1. Canada was the second largest Nato contributor in Kosovo.

2. Canada invaded Iraq

Not sure why this is relevant. Canada is under the US sphere of influence. Anyone threatened while under the US sphere of influence would elicit a US response. Any time the US is compelled to take international action, those under the US sphere of influence are compelled to either support or at worst abstain...never oppose.

At 3/23/2014 10:15:10 PM, Jifpop09 wrote:

You are so stupid. The US is only a couple ranks behind yours in media freedom, and I use British BBC as my news source. EVEN YOUR OWN MEDIA SAYS SO. There are satellite images, pictures, confirmations, what else do you need you ignorant fuk?And if Iraq was so bad, WHY THE FUK DID CANADA JOIN THE COALITION. Oh, and if Kosovo was so bad WHY THE FUK WAS CANADA THE SECOND LARGEST NATO CONTRIBUTER IN PERSONNEL. The US was actually the smallest contributer, but you are to much of an idiot to realize facts.

This clearly reflects a weak argument.

UN action in Kosovo was headed by a US general, i.e. US controlled.

Just because the vast majority of troops stationed along the southern border of the 38th parallel are South Korean doesn't mean that it's not a US-led operation, which it is.

We were talking about NATO intervention. He supports UN intervention, but not nato, lol what?

well, obviously whatever you're alluding to is not in this thread.

As it is, IMHO NATO or the UN without the US doesn't matter.

No, what I'm trying to explain to him, is something else. He keeps ranting like a maniac about how the US and NATO committed atrocities in Kosovo, and Canada took no part. I had to explain to him that Canada was the second largest contributor in the war, while the US was the second smallest. He's hypocritical.
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wrichcirw
Posts: 11,196
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3/25/2014 6:44:15 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/25/2014 2:44:18 PM, Stephen_Hawkins wrote:
At 3/24/2014 8:52:42 PM, Jifpop09 wrote:

NOTE NONE OF THIS HAS REFERENCE TO RUSSIA'S FOREIGN POLICY. RUSSIA'S FOREIGN POLICY IS IRRELEVANT TO MY CASE, AND THE ONUS IS NOT ON ME TO DEFEND IT. I do not want to have to defend Russia, because it is irrelevant to the topic.

I probably need to make this same disclosure whenever I talk about this issue, since I can see how some of my statements suggest that I support Russian foreign policy. I don't...I am attempting to simply state it for what it is.
At 8/9/2013 9:41:24 AM, wrichcirw wrote:
If you are civil with me, I will be civil to you. If you decide to bring unreasonable animosity to bear in a reasonable discussion, then what would you expect other than to get flustered?
monty1
Posts: 1,084
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3/25/2014 7:20:16 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/25/2014 4:45:26 PM, Jifpop09 wrote:
At 3/25/2014 12:31:00 PM, wrichcirw wrote:
At 3/25/2014 8:44:30 AM, Jifpop09 wrote:
At 3/25/2014 7:13:33 AM, wrichcirw wrote:
At 3/24/2014 8:52:42 PM, Jifpop09 wrote:
At 3/24/2014 8:36:10 PM, monty1 wrote:
At 3/24/2014 7:21:29 PM, Haroush wrote:
At 3/23/2014 10:09:21 PM, monty1 wrote:
At 3/23/2014 7:16:32 PM, Jifpop09 wrote:
Alright, it feels so good to be right. International inspectors have linked voter fraud to Pro Russian groups, who are believed to be funded by Russia. Now, I don't want to say I told you so, but, I told you so. Now there is absolutely no arguments left standing on Russia's part. I told you that at least 40% would vote no. If the first 4 violations of international law were not enough....

1. Russia recognized Ukraine-Crimea sovereignty over an international treaty.

2. The Ukraine constitution declares that all citizens can vote in referendums.

3. Nations may only secede if they are being oppressed politically or physically.

4. Referendums need to be internationally supervised.

And now Russian is linked to voter fraud. Ha ma la, I was right. Now here is the true reasoning Russia invaded, and not to protect ethnic Russians...

1. To secure petroleum shipping, which comprises 65% of Russia's exports.

2. To maintain the black fleet, which is based in Sevastopol, and responsible for guarding black sea oil.

3. To have a launch pad for Russia oil rigging.

Practically, if Crimea turned over to the EU, then Russia's economy would be cut in half. Now I have another question. Can we blame Russia, as petroleum is relied on to feed half of Russia? I don't think its an excuse. Yes, Russia would of been screwed, but that's capitalism.

And I told you not to keep believing U.S. propaganda lies. The referendum was over 95% and there is no Russian troops massed along the Ukraine border. And besides that, the Iraq was the worst case of aggression against a small country since the Nazi invasion of Poland in 1939.

Anybody who still trust U.S. propaganda since the Iraq war needs some serious psychiatric help.

(not saying that you're crazy)

Monty, was 9/11 an inside job?

If you're asking in respect to the conspiracy theories I've heard being batted around, NO! Without elaborating that's the best I can do.

There is something else worth mentioning though. I think there's little doubt that Bush2 tried to use the 9/11 tragedy for his political goal of attacking Iraq. It's common knowledge that he wanted to do Iraq before going into Afghanistan.

I think that could be the starting point of all the conspiracy theories of it being an inside job. Crazy people took that fact and turned it into something completely ridiculous re. conspiracy theories.

9/11 was a revenge attack against the US for it's meddling in the ME which included support of the evil apartheid regime of Israel against the Palestinian people, as well as the US bombing war on Iraq called the Gulf war. There are other minor justifications claimed above and beyond those two also. Chief being the US support of the Saudi evil and oppressive monarchy. Those three can be juggled as to the impetus they provided to Osama. Some would rank them in a different order.

The inside job idea is pure conspiracy theorist bullsh-t.

You have still not responded to my three statements.

1. Canada was the second largest Nato contributor in Kosovo.

2. Canada invaded Iraq

Not sure why this is relevant. Canada is under the US sphere of influence. Anyone threatened while under the US sphere of influence would elicit a US response. Any time the US is compelled to take international action, those under the US sphere of influence are compelled to either support or at worst abstain...never oppose.

At 3/23/2014 10:15:10 PM, Jifpop09 wrote:

You are so stupid. The US is only a couple ranks behind yours in media freedom, and I use British BBC as my news source. EVEN YOUR OWN MEDIA SAYS SO. There are satellite images, pictures, confirmations, what else do you need you ignorant fuk?And if Iraq was so bad, WHY THE FUK DID CANADA JOIN THE COALITION. Oh, and if Kosovo was so bad WHY THE FUK WAS CANADA THE SECOND LARGEST NATO CONTRIBUTER IN PERSONNEL. The US was actually the smallest contributer, but you are to much of an idiot to realize facts.

This clearly reflects a weak argument.

UN action in Kosovo was headed by a US general, i.e. US controlled.

Just because the vast majority of troops stationed along the southern border of the 38th parallel are South Korean doesn't mean that it's not a US-led operation, which it is.

We were talking about NATO intervention. He supports UN intervention, but not nato, lol what?

well, obviously whatever you're alluding to is not in this thread.

As it is, IMHO NATO or the UN without the US doesn't matter.

No, what I'm trying to explain to him, is something else. He keeps ranting like a maniac about how the US and NATO committed atrocities in Kosovo, and Canada took no part. I had to explain to him that Canada was the second largest contributor in the war, while the US was the second smallest. He's hypocritical.

You stupid feeble minded little mutt. I acknowledged that Canada took part in Kosovo and is just as guilty as the US for that one.

GEEZUZ kid, how far up your as-hole is your head today?