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Zashto, Remembering the Children who Died

monty1
Posts: 1,084
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3/23/2014 10:51:32 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
http://rt.com...

It doesn't seem like 15 years ago and the bombing ruins look like they could be yesterday's. But it went on for 3 months and terrified thousands of innocent people. And over two thousand didn't live to remember the bombs falling on their homes.

Was there a lesson learned? Will the US and Nato be able to garner up support from the world to start dropping their bombs again from 30,000 feet on the people of the Crimea and the Ukraine?

Have Americans had enough of the carnage their country has wrought on small defenceless countries or will hate propaganda win the day again for another bombing spree?
Skepsikyma
Posts: 8,285
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3/24/2014 12:36:05 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
The US is hardly innocent, but Russia under Putin is far from saintly. Just look at Grozny if you want to know what happens to a city which tries to assert any degree of democracy and independence. Or look at the brutal violence in Azerbaijan and Armenia, which Russia always has a hand in, to some degree. If you're trying to prove that the U.S. has its hands stained as well, then fine. But to pretend that Russia's are any cleaner is just absurd. A nation doesn't become powerful by playing nice, and conflicts between such powers can never be boiled down to simple moral terms.
"The Collectivist experiment is thoroughly suited (in appearance at least) to the Capitalist society which it proposes to replace. It works with the existing machinery of Capitalism, talks and thinks in the existing terms of Capitalism, appeals to just those appetites which Capitalism has aroused, and ridicules as fantastic and unheard-of just those things in society the memory of which Capitalism has killed among men wherever the blight of it has spread."
- Hilaire Belloc -
monty1
Posts: 1,084
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3/24/2014 12:26:38 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/24/2014 12:36:05 AM, Skepsikyma wrote:
The US is hardly innocent, but Russia under Putin is far from saintly. Just look at Grozny if you want to know what happens to a city which tries to assert any degree of democracy and independence. Or look at the brutal violence in Azerbaijan and Armenia, which Russia always has a hand in, to some degree. If you're trying to prove that the U.S. has its hands stained as well, then fine. But to pretend that Russia's are any cleaner is just absurd. A nation doesn't become powerful by playing nice, and conflicts between such powers can never be boiled down to simple moral terms.

I absolutely agree that both Russia and China are playing the same sort of ambitious games and have asserted their influences for decades. However, there's no arguing that the US hasn't been the largest and most active aggressor by far since the fall of the Soviet Union.

Russia is beginning to assert it's influence in the world militarily and that will be for the good of the world because it intents on being a balance to US hegemony once again. China is asserting it's influence in a more economic way of course and will hold the ground against US aggression that would challenge it's interests in that way.

I think the US warhawks know that the opportunity is there still to some degree and haven't come to the conclusion yet that the barn door has been closed by Russia. Obama's influence speaks well for our futures because at least there are close to another three years where he will actively work to put the brakes on US ambitions abroad. He's successfully stopped in in Syria with Putin's help and he is holding the line on Iran so far. Russia's renewed interest in Iran's good fortunes will likely save the day there.
ararmer1919
Posts: 362
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3/24/2014 12:32:24 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/23/2014 10:51:32 PM, monty1 wrote:
http://rt.com...

It doesn't seem like 15 years ago and the bombing ruins look like they could be yesterday's. But it went on for 3 months and terrified thousands of innocent people. And over two thousand didn't live to remember the bombs falling on their homes.

Was there a lesson learned? Will the US and Nato be able to garner up support from the world to start dropping their bombs again from 30,000 feet on the people of the Crimea and the Ukraine?

Have Americans had enough of the carnage their country has wrought on small defenceless countries or will hate propaganda win the day again for another bombing spree?

Omg. Really?
ararmer1919
Posts: 362
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3/24/2014 12:35:05 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/24/2014 12:26:38 PM, monty1 wrote:
At 3/24/2014 12:36:05 AM, Skepsikyma wrote:
The US is hardly innocent, but Russia under Putin is far from saintly. Just look at Grozny if you want to know what happens to a city which tries to assert any degree of democracy and independence. Or look at the brutal violence in Azerbaijan and Armenia, which Russia always has a hand in, to some degree. If you're trying to prove that the U.S. has its hands stained as well, then fine. But to pretend that Russia's are any cleaner is just absurd. A nation doesn't become powerful by playing nice, and conflicts between such powers can never be boiled down to simple moral terms.

I absolutely agree that both Russia and China are playing the same sort of ambitious games and have asserted their influences for decades. However, there's no arguing that the US hasn't been the largest and most active aggressor by far since the fall of the Soviet Union.

Russia is beginning to assert it's influence in the world militarily and that will be for the good of the world because it intents on being a balance to US hegemony once again. China is asserting it's influence in a more economic way of course and will hold the ground against US aggression that would challenge it's interests in that way.

I think the US warhawks know that the opportunity is there still to some degree and haven't come to the conclusion yet that the barn door has been closed by Russia. Obama's influence speaks well for our futures because at least there are close to another three years where he will actively work to put the brakes on US ambitions abroad. He's successfully stopped in in Syria with Putin's help and he is holding the line on Iran so far. Russia's renewed interest in Iran's good fortunes will likely save the day there.

I honest to god don't believe you. You I believe that you are just trolling and that you In no way whatsoever actually believe the things you are saying. I believe this because any human who's mind is that mentally broken would not be alive because the brain would be to stupid to communicate with the other organs throughout the body and tell them what to do and would die. If your to ashamed or still trying to carry on the troll act you can pm me your answer if you want.
monty1
Posts: 1,084
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3/24/2014 12:50:36 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/24/2014 12:35:05 PM, ararmer1919 wrote:
At 3/24/2014 12:26:38 PM, monty1 wrote:
At 3/24/2014 12:36:05 AM, Skepsikyma wrote:
The US is hardly innocent, but Russia under Putin is far from saintly. Just look at Grozny if you want to know what happens to a city which tries to assert any degree of democracy and independence. Or look at the brutal violence in Azerbaijan and Armenia, which Russia always has a hand in, to some degree. If you're trying to prove that the U.S. has its hands stained as well, then fine. But to pretend that Russia's are any cleaner is just absurd. A nation doesn't become powerful by playing nice, and conflicts between such powers can never be boiled down to simple moral terms.

I absolutely agree that both Russia and China are playing the same sort of ambitious games and have asserted their influences for decades. However, there's no arguing that the US hasn't been the largest and most active aggressor by far since the fall of the Soviet Union.

Russia is beginning to assert it's influence in the world militarily and that will be for the good of the world because it intents on being a balance to US hegemony once again. China is asserting it's influence in a more economic way of course and will hold the ground against US aggression that would challenge it's interests in that way.

I think the US warhawks know that the opportunity is there still to some degree and haven't come to the conclusion yet that the barn door has been closed by Russia. Obama's influence speaks well for our futures because at least there are close to another three years where he will actively work to put the brakes on US ambitions abroad. He's successfully stopped in in Syria with Putin's help and he is holding the line on Iran so far. Russia's renewed interest in Iran's good fortunes will likely save the day there.

I honest to god don't believe you. You I believe that you are just trolling and that you In no way whatsoever actually believe the things you are saying. I believe this because any human who's mind is that mentally broken would not be alive because the brain would be to stupid to communicate with the other organs throughout the body and tell them what to do and would die. If your to ashamed or still trying to carry on the troll act you can pm me your answer if you want.

Off topic! And outrageiously bad and childish behaviour. Stop it now!
Skepsikyma
Posts: 8,285
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3/24/2014 9:26:56 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/24/2014 12:26:38 PM, monty1 wrote:
At 3/24/2014 12:36:05 AM, Skepsikyma wrote:
The US is hardly innocent, but Russia under Putin is far from saintly. Just look at Grozny if you want to know what happens to a city which tries to assert any degree of democracy and independence. Or look at the brutal violence in Azerbaijan and Armenia, which Russia always has a hand in, to some degree. If you're trying to prove that the U.S. has its hands stained as well, then fine. But to pretend that Russia's are any cleaner is just absurd. A nation doesn't become powerful by playing nice, and conflicts between such powers can never be boiled down to simple moral terms.

I absolutely agree that both Russia and China are playing the same sort of ambitious games and have asserted their influences for decades. However, there's no arguing that the US hasn't been the largest and most active aggressor by far since the fall of the Soviet Union.

Russia is beginning to assert it's influence in the world militarily and that will be for the good of the world because it intents on being a balance to US hegemony once again. China is asserting it's influence in a more economic way of course and will hold the ground against US aggression that would challenge it's interests in that way.

I think the US warhawks know that the opportunity is there still to some degree and haven't come to the conclusion yet that the barn door has been closed by Russia. Obama's influence speaks well for our futures because at least there are close to another three years where he will actively work to put the brakes on US ambitions abroad. He's successfully stopped in in Syria with Putin's help and he is holding the line on Iran so far. Russia's renewed interest in Iran's good fortunes will likely save the day there.

This is my outlook as well; though the end of our Pax Americana may be a bit less rosy than you imagine it, as multipolarity presents pitfalls just as vicious as the ones we're dealing with under global hegemony. All in all, I don't think that the world is getting any better, just a bit different.
"The Collectivist experiment is thoroughly suited (in appearance at least) to the Capitalist society which it proposes to replace. It works with the existing machinery of Capitalism, talks and thinks in the existing terms of Capitalism, appeals to just those appetites which Capitalism has aroused, and ridicules as fantastic and unheard-of just those things in society the memory of which Capitalism has killed among men wherever the blight of it has spread."
- Hilaire Belloc -
monty1
Posts: 1,084
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3/25/2014 12:28:50 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/24/2014 9:26:56 PM, Skepsikyma wrote:
At 3/24/2014 12:26:38 PM, monty1 wrote:
At 3/24/2014 12:36:05 AM, Skepsikyma wrote:
The US is hardly innocent, but Russia under Putin is far from saintly. Just look at Grozny if you want to know what happens to a city which tries to assert any degree of democracy and independence. Or look at the brutal violence in Azerbaijan and Armenia, which Russia always has a hand in, to some degree. If you're trying to prove that the U.S. has its hands stained as well, then fine. But to pretend that Russia's are any cleaner is just absurd. A nation doesn't become powerful by playing nice, and conflicts between such powers can never be boiled down to simple moral terms.

I absolutely agree that both Russia and China are playing the same sort of ambitious games and have asserted their influences for decades. However, there's no arguing that the US hasn't been the largest and most active aggressor by far since the fall of the Soviet Union.

Russia is beginning to assert it's influence in the world militarily and that will be for the good of the world because it intents on being a balance to US hegemony once again. China is asserting it's influence in a more economic way of course and will hold the ground against US aggression that would challenge it's interests in that way.

I think the US warhawks know that the opportunity is there still to some degree and haven't come to the conclusion yet that the barn door has been closed by Russia. Obama's influence speaks well for our futures because at least there are close to another three years where he will actively work to put the brakes on US ambitions abroad. He's successfully stopped in in Syria with Putin's help and he is holding the line on Iran so far. Russia's renewed interest in Iran's good fortunes will likely save the day there.

This is my outlook as well; though the end of our Pax Americana may be a bit less rosy than you imagine it, as multipolarity presents pitfalls just as vicious as the ones we're dealing with under global hegemony. All in all, I don't think that the world is getting any better, just a bit different.

I'm not really predicting the end of Pax Americana, just a renewal of what was called the cold war. And that was really just the nuclear armed superpowers preventing outright and uncontrolled aggression of the nature of what the US has been involved in since the fall of the Soviet Union.

The world's smaller countries will be better for it even though the inevitable struggle for power will continue.

Syria today is a much better place than it would be under US bombs, as we should have learned through the Iraq experience. Russia asserting it's might and Obama being not predisposed to solving problems with bombs is encouraging.