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The conservativity of George Bush.

wjmelements
Posts: 8,206
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10/1/2008 5:16:32 PM
Posted: 8 years ago
George Bush cut taxes, but he failed to cut spending. In fact, during his presidency, our spending went up over 25%. That might explain our defecit...

Bush failed as a conservative, however he kept us safe unlike his predecessor.
-Will
in the blink of an eye you finally see the light
Robert_Santurri
Posts: 106
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10/1/2008 5:58:22 PM
Posted: 8 years ago
At 10/1/2008 5:52:31 PM, Sweatingjojo wrote:
I'm not sure how destroying a country's credibility makes it safer.

I also don't know when we weren't safe under Clinton?

Oklahoma city bombing 1993 WTC?

If I recall, 9/11 happened under Dubya's watch. As much as the Right Wing would hate to admit that.
"We cannot defend freedom abroad by deserting it at home."
-- Edward R. Murrow

"Two roads diverged in a wood, and I—
I took the one less traveled by,
And that has made all the difference."
-- Robert Frost
brian_eggleston
Posts: 3,347
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10/2/2008 5:21:06 AM
Posted: 8 years ago
At 10/1/2008 6:00:49 PM, s0m31john wrote:
They hate us because we're free!

/s

It is America's unwavering support of Israel and bellicose attitude towards Arab nations that fuels the hatred in Islamic terrorists' hearts and elicits the support of many, otherwise peace-loving, Muslims.
Visit the burglars' bulletin board: http://www.break-in-news.com...
scissorhands7
Posts: 480
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10/2/2008 8:07:48 AM
Posted: 8 years ago
It is America's unwavering support of Israel and bellicose attitude towards Arab nations that fuels the hatred in Islamic terrorists' hearts and elicits the support of many, otherwise peace-loving, Muslims.

I have to disagree to a degree. Muslims more or less hate the US because our constant interference in their affairs. Yes Israel is part of the problem but it is much more than that.

Kuwait, Afghanistan, having a puppet dictater in Pakistan, Referring to them as the "axis of evil" Rushing into invade without UN support, etc.

Had we not done certain acts such as above we would not have "terrorists"
I rock peas on my head, but don't call me a peahead, bees on my head but dont call me a beehead, bruce lees on my head but dont call me a lee head...
I hang out with an apple who loves self loathing....
Its my show I'm andy milonakis.
brittwaller
Posts: 331
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10/2/2008 3:47:54 PM
Posted: 8 years ago
I have to agree with Brian on this one. Generally, when you set up military bases on sacred land and bomb the s*** out of people because of some unilateral Judaeo-Christian alliance with Israel, they tend not to like you.
Don't I take care of them all?
Zerosmelt
Posts: 287
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10/2/2008 4:07:06 PM
Posted: 8 years ago
At 10/2/2008 3:47:54 PM, brittwaller wrote:
I have to agree with Brian on this one. Generally, when you set up military bases on sacred land and bomb the s*** out of people because of some unilateral Judaeo-Christian alliance with Israel, they tend not to like you.

do you really think that is the only reason?
Zerosmelt
Posts: 287
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10/2/2008 4:16:26 PM
Posted: 8 years ago

Had we not done certain acts such as above we would not have "terrorists"

If fundamentalist islam did not preach jihad we would not have terrorists. It is so tiring to see intelligent people completely overlook this point. There are no Jainist suicide bombers. Their religion is the integral factor. Islam has a much longer history of imperialism than America does. Imperialism is as much a part of nature as a lion killing a buffalo. It may not be pretty but it is natural.
Of course we should be critical of ourselves but we also need to stop blaming ourselves..

http://thesciencenetwork.org...
brittwaller
Posts: 331
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10/2/2008 4:40:58 PM
Posted: 8 years ago
No, it isn't the only reason, but yes, for the most part I do think that our foreign policy over the last 30 or so years plays a major, major part.

Also, zero, I have to disagree with you on 'if they did not have jihad, we would not have terrorists.' Every liberal society in the world has had to deal with terrorism - Germany w/ Baden/Baden, England with the IRA, etc. So it isn't just about Islam (although the role Islam plays cannot be downplayed.)

"They hate us for our freedom" is just a Bush talking point that appealed to the majority of Americans.
Don't I take care of them all?
s0m31john
Posts: 1,879
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10/2/2008 4:47:24 PM
Posted: 8 years ago
"I believe very sincerely that the CIA is correct when they teach and talk about blowback. When we went into Iran in 1953 and installed the shah, yes, there was blowback. A reaction to that was the taking of our hostages and that persists. And if we ignore that, we ignore that at our own risk. If we think that we can do what we want around the world and not incite hatred, then we have a problem. They don't come here to attack us because we're rich and we're free. They come and they attack us because we're over there. I mean, what would we think if we were –if other foreign countries were doing that to us?"

http://mises.org...
Zerosmelt
Posts: 287
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10/3/2008 8:26:58 AM
Posted: 8 years ago
I never denied that our foreign policy has played a role. Yet the exact degree to which can only be speculation. People who are against American imperialism are just blind to the facts. - The fact that every powerful culture/nation that has ever existed has been imperialistic including Islam. To be against imperialism is like being against molecular replication bc it is literally the same process on a grander scale. One of my dearest friends is a Palestinian American. He has told me of the countless horrors that are inflicted upon his people everyday. It is very easy to be morally swayed to his side bc of this. But then i remember this little scientific theory called Evolution by natural selection. This is simply how nature works and if you understand that everything is actually one thing there is nothing wrong with it. Personally I am against the state of Israel for political not moral reasons. The US supporting Israel the way we do is only augmenting our conflict with Muslims. It is foolish for us to be doing so. But it cannot be said that is the only or main cause. We have muddled our imperialistic fingers into many parts of the world, yet all the suicide bombers are Muslim. We simply would not have terrorism on the scale we do without Islam.

Stating that our freedom angers them is an oversimplification and like any strawman its easily knocked down. What is actually taking place is the accumulation of a few different conditions.
1 -The fact that we are ostentatiously flamboyant sinners in their eyes. Our entire culture is built upon what they consider sin. And of course we are all infidels.
2 - We are the most powerful culture/nation in the world. How could God let it pass that a nation of such sinners would be so much more powerful than all the Islamic nations, when the Islamic people are the people of god. It is careless to suggest that these conditions don't cause an intense amount of resentment.

--Then on top of this there are passages in their holy book that call for the death of all infidels.--

It is obvious what is going on here. To blame the US is ludicrous.
Zerosmelt
Posts: 287
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10/3/2008 8:37:08 AM
Posted: 8 years ago
We need to be critical of ourselves at all times, but blame is not warranted

Last year many of the world's leading intellecuals got together to discusses these very issues. I highly suggest you watch some of these lectures.

http://thesciencenetwork.org...

both sides are represented.
LR4N6FTW4EVA
Posts: 190
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10/3/2008 2:08:52 PM
Posted: 8 years ago
People talk about how evil the extremists of Islam are, with their jihads, and other fun activities that involve killing infidels, but they forget the fun little thing I call the Crusades. Also, Christianity considered Muslims heathens for the longest time, while we were "people of the book."
Zerosmelt
Posts: 287
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10/3/2008 11:27:36 PM
Posted: 8 years ago
At 10/3/2008 2:08:52 PM, LR4N6FTW4EVA wrote:
People talk about how evil the extremists of Islam are, with their jihads, and other fun activities that involve killing infidels, but they forget the fun little thing I call the Crusades. Also, Christianity considered Muslims heathens for the longest time, while we were "people of the book."

We are people of the book? We? .. maybe you are. I am definitely not. You're right though people do forget about christianity. I however, have not. Christians have done plently to mess things up and not until people start relying upon reason instead of blind faith will humanity be safe.
Robert_Santurri
Posts: 106
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10/3/2008 11:29:53 PM
Posted: 8 years ago
At 10/2/2008 3:47:54 PM, brittwaller wrote:
I have to agree with Brian on this one. Generally, when you set up military bases on sacred land and bomb the s*** out of people because of some unilateral Judaeo-Christian alliance with Israel, they tend not to like you.

Agreed, it's not the best way to make friends certainly.
"We cannot defend freedom abroad by deserting it at home."
-- Edward R. Murrow

"Two roads diverged in a wood, and I—
I took the one less traveled by,
And that has made all the difference."
-- Robert Frost
Ragnar_Rahl
Posts: 19,297
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10/5/2008 10:44:17 AM
Posted: 8 years ago
At 10/2/2008 4:40:58 PM, brittwaller wrote:
N

"They hate us for our freedom" is just a Bush talking point that appealed to the majority of Americans.

Do try to tell that to Sayyid Qutb, the guy who inspired Al Qaeda... if you read that, you find out they hate us for salting watermelon, drinking tea unsweetened, watering our lawns, having muscular football players, bad haircuts, jazz, dancing, all the fruits of freedom.

http://www.smithsonianmag.com...

His solution, naturally, is to impose universal jihad against modernity itself, presumably creating some sort of islamoanarchofascist state (Yes, I know it contradicts itself, but he doesn't.) Al Qaeda of course dropped the anarcho. The rest remains.

And saying "Having non-muslim troops in a holy land" is a problem is the equivalent of admitting they wish to impose sharia law.

They hate Israel, of course, because they hate Jews, and it's really that simple (again look at Qutb :D). Not that Israel doesn't have problems- but every problem it has is one comparable to one they too are guilty of. :D
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
Zerosmelt
Posts: 287
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10/7/2008 9:58:19 AM
Posted: 8 years ago
At 10/7/2008 9:52:49 AM, my.matryoshka wrote:
It's because Abraham loved Isaac and rejected Ishmael!

Unless you're muslim lol. Then its because Abraham loved Ishmael and rejected Isaac
Ragnar_Rahl
Posts: 19,297
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10/7/2008 11:26:07 AM
Posted: 8 years ago
Wait, I don't get that story... biblical butthurt jealousy?
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
cardboardstereo
Posts: 13
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10/7/2008 4:09:56 PM
Posted: 8 years ago
I had trouble pronouncing the second word of the topic, so my response won't mean much. My stance on DubBush: "I will not pay to have some crackpot old fool teach him magic tricks!" Yeahhh, I'm a junkie.
I need a talent.
Greyparrot
Posts: 14,289
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4/1/2012 5:05:15 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/1/2008 5:16:32 PM, wjmelements wrote:
George Bush cut taxes, but he failed to cut spending. In fact, during his presidency, our spending went up over 25%. That might explain our defecit...

Bush failed as a conservative, however he kept us safe unlike his predecessor.
-Will

George W. Bush has lost more than one million American jobs since taking office. If the Bush economy keeps on going like it's going, George W. Bush will be the first man since Republican Herbert Hoover in 1933 under whose watch the total employment rolls in the country actually shrank. (Source: New York Times July 3, 2003)

The Voice of Experience cries "Horror!" Cele Keeper writes: "He's the worst President with the most dangerous administration in my memory and I'm 76 years old. There were a few lousy ones before my memory kicked in, but W takes the Horror Award". (If Cele can do it, you can do it: give us a reason to boot Bush.)

Although he couldn't wait to spend hundreds of American lives and hundreds of billions of dollars to halt a fictitious WMD threat, George W. Bush took pains to prevent safer arsenic standards for our drinking water from being enacted. Bush's "radical" opponent in this instance? The National Academy of Sciences, which had endorsed the standards. (Source: The Nation September 25, 2003)

Oh, by golly! How could we forget Bush's reliance on slick, yet strangely ham-handed public relations professionals to mislead the American public about his trade policies? We're talking about BoxGate, that photo-opportunity at which Bush's aides slapped "Made in U.S.A." labels on boxes that were really stamped "Made in China", created a fake backdrop of more boxes, and relied on an audience of workers who were forced to attend the event by their bosses. How's that for honesty and honor in the White House? (Source: Washington Post January 29, 2003)

While presidential candidate Howard Dean gathered more than a hundred thousand Americans to participate in his neighborhood meetups, George W. Bush couldn't even muster enough grassroots support to get more than 12 Americans to sign up for a meetup on his birthday! Without popular support, how can Bush make decisions that are in line with the needs of everyday Americans?

We agree with Al Franken, and we know better than to believe Republicans' lies and the lying liars who tell them. That goes for Fox News as well, even if they sue us. There are so many of Bush's lies to document that we'll take the time to spell them out, one by one.

It's not just that Bush lies; it's what he lies about. Clinton's Lies were about consensual private sex; Bush Lies about consequential policy. Bush's lies are much more serious because he lies to get people to go along with his political agenda. When Bush lies, lives are at stake.

"He wasn't really elected -- he was appointed by the Supreme Court." These words sent in by a resident of central Florida sum up an oldie but a goodie. If you dig through the fine print of the corporate media, ignoring broad proclamations and admonishments that we should move on instead of sifting through real reporting of facts (silly things, those), you'll find this inescapable truth: If all votes had been counted, Gore would have not only won the popular vote -- he would have won Florida and hence the electoral vote, too. It's too late to cry over spilled chads, but it's not too late to make sure Bush doesn't slide into office again. (Source: Newsday November 15, 2001)

If we get rid of Bush, we get rid of Cheney, Rumsfeld, Ashcroft, and dozens more of his lousy appointees. Bonus!

It's worth it to get out and vote just so we won't have to look at his stupid little self-satisfied smirk on the news every night.

While we're at it, we won't have to put up with Rumsfeld's superior Ward-Cleaver-on-Acid smirk, either.

Couldn't we use a first lady with a backbone and a voice again? Theresa Heinz Kerry calls it like she sees it. Laura Bush remains largely silent and dresses like June Cleaver. Who's the better role model for American girls?

It's hasta la vista Bush or buenos dias police state--you decide Under Bush, terror "suspects" have been imprisoned indefinitely without due process of law. In 2004, let's show him that nobody is above the law.

Are you better off than you were four years ago? We didn't think so.

A president should help govern the country - not try to rule the world.

A vote against Bush will help the Dixie Chicks feel better about being from Texas.

A vote to dump Bush will let Americans travel in Europe again without fear of being snickered at.

A vote to get rid of Bush will help the French to visit America in the name of cultural exchange without fear of being pelted by rotten vegetables.

One term was good enough for the father, and it's good enough for the son.

In a democracy, the president derives power from the consent of the governed. When he lies to obtain that consent, Bush has stolen power from the people. Let's take that power back in 2004.

Moderates everywhere know that balance is a good thing in life and in politics. The American federal government is out of balance right now, with the legislative, judicial and executive branches dominated by right-wing extremists. We need someone in the White House to act as a check on the nuttiest elements of the Congress and Supreme Court.

As the likes of Fox News, MSNBC, the Wall Street Journal and US News and World Report use their corporate sponsors' deep pockets to promulgate their increasingly extremist bias in reporting, we need a moderate voice from the bully pulpit of the Oval Office to balance them out. Bush is not the man to do it.

We have to get rid of Bush before the French start referring to cowboy hats as "honest hats" and to Texas barbecue as "truth barbecue."

When Bush asked America's youth to put their lives on the line in Afghanistan and Iraq, he forgot to ask his own daughters Jenna and Barbara.

We need a president who will crack down on white collar criminals and corporate welfare bums, and Bush won't do it.

Should we be reduced to guessing whether a president is telling the truth this time?

Aside from two wars and a recession, what has Bush given us?

Wouldn't you just love to hear his concession speech?

Every man needs an episode of disappointment in his life to gain wisdom and empathy. George has been protected from the negative consequences of his actions by his parents, his party and the Supreme Court. Let's give George a disappointment they can't fix in 2004. It'll build character.

Because on the day that Hamas and Israel declared that the "road map to peace" was falling apart, Bush responded by immediately flying out to Washington State, where he took credit for improved salmon runs. (Source: Christian Science Monitor September 9, 2003)

'Cause all my exes live in Texas: ex-presidents, that is.

If you had an employee who agreed to take a few hundred dollars less in salary, then borrowed several thousand dollars that you would have to pay back, would you think that was a good deal? That's what Bush is doing with his tax cuts and record deficits, and it's a raw deal.

Because shaving and painful waxing procedures are not the only ways to get rid of Bush.

Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.

Because Dick Cheney still won't tell us who he met with in 2001 to discuss U.S. energy policy. Whoever it was, it didn't prevent thousands of shareholders from going broke in the Enron collapse, or millions of people from losing power in the worst blackout in decades. (Source: New York Times January 3, 2003)

Plenty of reasons to disprove that claim...
Lordknukle
Posts: 12,788
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4/1/2012 5:44:45 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/1/2012 5:19:36 PM, mongeese wrote:
Either that was copy-pasted from somewhere else, or you're still living in 2004.

http://irregulartimes.com...
"Easy is the descent to Avernus, for the door to the Underworld lies upon both day and night. But to retrace your steps and return to the breezes above- that's the task, that's the toil."
DanT
Posts: 5,693
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4/1/2012 6:46:57 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/2/2008 5:21:06 AM, brian_eggleston wrote:
At 10/1/2008 6:00:49 PM, s0m31john wrote:
They hate us because we're free!

/s


It is America's unwavering support of Israel and bellicose attitude towards Arab nations that fuels the hatred in Islamic terrorists' hearts and elicits the support of many, otherwise peace-loving, Muslims.

No they hate us because of our freedoms. They hate freedom of religion. They hate women's rights. They hate how we dress, and our freedom to do so. They hate freedom of speech, and that we can legally draw pictures of Muhammad and put it on south park (though south park was too chicken to do it).

They hate our freedom.
"Chemical weapons are no different than any other types of weapons."~Lordknukle
DanT
Posts: 5,693
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4/1/2012 6:50:14 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/1/2008 5:16:32 PM, wjmelements wrote:
George Bush cut taxes, but he failed to cut spending. In fact, during his presidency, our spending went up over 25%. That might explain our defecit...

Bush failed as a conservative, however he kept us safe unlike his predecessor.
-Will

You may be confusing conservatism with classic liberalism or even (classic) liberal-conservatism.

Conservative means either liberal conservative, or traditional conservative. Bush was a traditional conservative, which does not necessarily blend well with the free market, and often uses Keynesian economics
"Chemical weapons are no different than any other types of weapons."~Lordknukle
MrBrooks
Posts: 831
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4/1/2012 6:56:04 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
American Imperialism is actually very tame compared to earlier superpowers. In fact America has been very benign on the world stage in a lot of cases. People like to forget all the foreign aid we've sent out and humanitarian missions we've spear headed, they like to forget all the dictatorships we've helped topple, and they like to glorify our enemies and make them seem like martys. Its actually funny that when people glorify our enemies that they always try to make them seem MORE AMERICAN LIKE than they actually are.

For instance, Iran. People like to portray Iran as some upstart American style Republic that the US brutally overthrew for no reason. People forget that Iran NATIONALIZED private property that belonged to American and British citizens. You could say what we did was blowback. Was it right to overthrow their government? I don't think it was. Was it unprovoked? No, it was not unprovoked and if you put it together with the fear of communism spreading to Iran and the Middle East, you could make a very reasonable case that it was justified.

What hasn't America done since it became a superpower? We havn't colonized anyone, commited genocide, or forced entire countries to become Americanized (they do that on their own, go figure.) The United Kingdom did all three of those things when they were a superpower.
Wylted
Posts: 21,167
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4/1/2015 3:10:11 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/1/2008 5:16:32 PM, wjmelements wrote:
George Bush cut taxes, but he failed to cut spending. In fact, during his presidency, our spending went up over 25%. That might explain our defecit...

Bush failed as a conservative, however he kept us safe unlike his predecessor.
-Will

He is a Democrat.