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Fort Hood Shoot

monty1
Posts: 1,084
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4/3/2014 11:21:39 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
The gun came from the same dealer as the last shoot up at fort hood.

The NRA Song

Guns are neat, Guns are sweet
Guns the tool, what makes you cool.
Guns are fine, Guns are mine
Guns are things, that Jesus brings!

Guns for loonies, Guns for cons
Guns for Moonies, Guns for moms!

Guns are fun for everyone, buy them up by the ton.
Guns for me, Guns for you, Guns for nuts and children too!
Guns at home, Guns at work, Guns at play, Guns berserk!

Tons and tons of great big Guns,
Are tons and tons of great big fun!

I"ve got Guns up my nose "tween my ears and by my toes.
I"m no fool, I"m so cool, I take Guns to my school.
I take Guns in my car, to the store and to the bar.
I got Guns in a drawer, in my pocket and on the floor.
I got Guns on the wall, behind the toilet and in the hall.

I got guns in my bed, one is growing from my head!
Get a Gun and get it fast, Gun-Gun shoot-shoot is a blast!
thett3
Posts: 14,378
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4/3/2014 11:44:55 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/3/2014 11:21:39 AM, monty1 wrote:
The gun came from the same dealer as the last shoot up at fort hood.



The NRA Song

Guns are neat, Guns are sweet
Guns the tool, what makes you cool.
Guns are fine, Guns are mine
Guns are things, that Jesus brings!

Guns for loonies, Guns for cons
Guns for Moonies, Guns for moms!

Guns are fun for everyone, buy them up by the ton.
Guns for me, Guns for you, Guns for nuts and children too!
Guns at home, Guns at work, Guns at play, Guns berserk!

Tons and tons of great big Guns,
Are tons and tons of great big fun!

I"ve got Guns up my nose "tween my ears and by my toes.
I"m no fool, I"m so cool, I take Guns to my school.
I take Guns in my car, to the store and to the bar.
I got Guns in a drawer, in my pocket and on the floor.
I got Guns on the wall, behind the toilet and in the hall.

I got guns in my bed, one is growing from my head!
Get a Gun and get it fast, Gun-Gun shoot-shoot is a blast!

You're forgetting one thing about the NRA in your song, and that involves aggressively spamming someone with mail because you suspect they own a firearm >.>
DDO Vice President

#StandwithBossy

#UnbanTheMadman

#BetOnThett

"Don't quote me, ever." -Max

"My name is max. I'm not a big fan of slacks"- Max rapping

"Walmart should have the opportunity to bribe a politician to it's agenda" -Max

"Thett, you're really good at convincing people you're a decent person"-tulle

"You fit the character of Regina George quite nicely"- Sam

: At 11/12/2016 11:49:40 PM, Raisor wrote:
: thett was right
el_em_en_oh
Posts: 66
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4/3/2014 2:33:14 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/3/2014 11:21:39 AM, monty1 wrote:
The gun came from the same dealer as the last shoot up at fort hood.



The NRA Song

Guns are neat, Guns are sweet
Guns the tool, what makes you cool.
Guns are fine, Guns are mine
Guns are things, that Jesus brings!

Guns for loonies, Guns for cons
Guns for Moonies, Guns for moms!

Guns are fun for everyone, buy them up by the ton.
Guns for me, Guns for you, Guns for nuts and children too!
Guns at home, Guns at work, Guns at play, Guns berserk!

Tons and tons of great big Guns,
Are tons and tons of great big fun!

I"ve got Guns up my nose "tween my ears and by my toes.
I"m no fool, I"m so cool, I take Guns to my school.
I take Guns in my car, to the store and to the bar.
I got Guns in a drawer, in my pocket and on the floor.
I got Guns on the wall, behind the toilet and in the hall.

I got guns in my bed, one is growing from my head!
Get a Gun and get it fast, Gun-Gun shoot-shoot is a blast!

Wait... a gun on a U.S. Army base?

The H3LL you say. That's outrageous. There should be laws against that sort of thing. Next thing you know, they'll be teaching/training soldiers how to SHOOT.

More gun laws! More gun laws! Rable, rable, rable, rable....

*facepalm*
Kanti
Posts: 115
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4/3/2014 2:55:20 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/3/2014 2:33:14 PM, el_em_en_oh wrote:

Wait... a gun on a U.S. Army base?

The H3LL you say. That's outrageous. There should be laws against that sort of thing. Next thing you know, they'll be teaching/training soldiers how to SHOOT.

More gun laws! More gun laws! Rable, rable, rable, rable....

*facepalm*

Fort Hood is a gun-free zone.
wrichcirw
Posts: 11,196
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4/4/2014 2:54:50 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/3/2014 2:55:20 PM, Kanti wrote:
At 4/3/2014 2:33:14 PM, el_em_en_oh wrote:

Wait... a gun on a U.S. Army base?

The H3LL you say. That's outrageous. There should be laws against that sort of thing. Next thing you know, they'll be teaching/training soldiers how to SHOOT.

More gun laws! More gun laws! Rable, rable, rable, rable....

*facepalm*

Fort Hood is a gun-free zone.

It's interesting how the military, which pretty much epitomizes what a guns is designed for, is so extremely careful in how they control access to guns. Note that everyone in the military is trained in how to use a firearm, yet access is still severely restricted.

My impression from most military folk is that guns are great for hunting, but with great power comes great responsibility...and many cringe at the cavalier attitude much of the pro-NRA folks have in regards to unrestricted gun access.
At 8/9/2013 9:41:24 AM, wrichcirw wrote:
If you are civil with me, I will be civil to you. If you decide to bring unreasonable animosity to bear in a reasonable discussion, then what would you expect other than to get flustered?
wrichcirw
Posts: 11,196
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4/4/2014 2:59:25 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
Example of military vs NRA:

http://www.csmonitor.com...

If the military has problems with this...you'd think the NRA's position is not exactly reasonable.
At 8/9/2013 9:41:24 AM, wrichcirw wrote:
If you are civil with me, I will be civil to you. If you decide to bring unreasonable animosity to bear in a reasonable discussion, then what would you expect other than to get flustered?
Juris_Naturalis
Posts: 273
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4/4/2014 5:45:57 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/3/2014 11:44:55 AM, thett3 wrote:
At 4/3/2014 11:21:39 AM, monty1 wrote:
The gun came from the same dealer as the last shoot up at fort hood.



The NRA Song

Guns are neat, Guns are sweet
Guns the tool, what makes you cool.
Guns are fine, Guns are mine
Guns are things, that Jesus brings!

Guns for loonies, Guns for cons
Guns for Moonies, Guns for moms!

Guns are fun for everyone, buy them up by the ton.
Guns for me, Guns for you, Guns for nuts and children too!
Guns at home, Guns at work, Guns at play, Guns berserk!

Tons and tons of great big Guns,
Are tons and tons of great big fun!

I"ve got Guns up my nose "tween my ears and by my toes.
I"m no fool, I"m so cool, I take Guns to my school.
I take Guns in my car, to the store and to the bar.
I got Guns in a drawer, in my pocket and on the floor.
I got Guns on the wall, behind the toilet and in the hall.

I got guns in my bed, one is growing from my head!
Get a Gun and get it fast, Gun-Gun shoot-shoot is a blast!

You're forgetting one thing about the NRA in your song, and that involves aggressively spamming someone with mail because you suspect they own a firearm >.>

I haven't gotten any spam. . . . . . . . . . . . .
monty1
Posts: 1,084
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4/4/2014 11:41:29 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/4/2014 2:59:25 AM, wrichcirw wrote:
Example of military vs NRA:

http://www.csmonitor.com...

If the military has problems with this...you'd think the NRA's position is not exactly reasonable.

The gun violence in your country is going to have to get completely out of control before the problem is dealt with. I'm thinking that the political situation with Obama and racist hate could be the spark that sets it off.

I think there's a very conscious effort going on to cover up the fact that suicides in the military are due to feelings of guilt over what they did and were trained to do to human beings who looked different or were a different colour. They were trained to kill indiscriminately and now they have returned to 'real' life and are starting to understand how their personalities were manipulated. When leaving the military they are expected to revert back to normal caring human beings and they have received no guidance on how to do so.

This must not be acknowledged for this war as it wasn't acknowledged for the Vietnam war. The number of incidents decline over time.

A stopgap measure would certainly be to attempt to keep guns away from these sort of individuals and that can be partially accomplished on the bases where they are under supervision.
ararmer1919
Posts: 362
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4/4/2014 11:48:24 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/4/2014 11:41:29 AM, monty1 wrote:
At 4/4/2014 2:59:25 AM, wrichcirw wrote:
Example of military vs NRA:

http://www.csmonitor.com...

If the military has problems with this...you'd think the NRA's position is not exactly reasonable.

The gun violence in your country is going to have to get completely out of control before the problem is dealt with. I'm thinking that the political situation with Obama and racist hate could be the spark that sets it off.

I think there's a very conscious effort going on to cover up the fact that suicides in the military are due to feelings of guilt over what they did and were trained to do to human beings who looked different or were a different colour. They were trained to kill indiscriminately and now they have returned to 'real' life and are starting to understand how their personalities were manipulated. When leaving the military they are expected to revert back to normal caring human beings and they have received no guidance on how to do so.

This is so ungodly false. Not even slightly true and before you try to come up with some BS and fake argument I will have you know that I am a Suicide Prevention Master Brief Trainer in my unit. Try and tell me why suicides happen in the military. I dare you.

This must not be acknowledged for this war as it wasn't acknowledged for the Vietnam war. The number of incidents decline over time.

A stopgap measure would certainly be to attempt to keep guns away from these sort of individuals and that can be partially accomplished on the bases where they are under supervision.
ItRemainsToBeSeen
Posts: 8
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4/4/2014 12:02:00 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
This is so ungodly false. Not even slightly true and before you try to come up with some BS and fake argument I will have you know that I am a Suicide Prevention Master Brief Trainer in my unit. Try and tell me why suicides happen in the military. I dare you.

Please tell us more; I'm extremely interested in your perspective here in more detail. I see you eluded to it with wit, but tell us more.
wrichcirw
Posts: 11,196
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4/4/2014 2:05:28 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/4/2014 11:41:29 AM, monty1 wrote:
At 4/4/2014 2:59:25 AM, wrichcirw wrote:
Example of military vs NRA:

http://www.csmonitor.com...

If the military has problems with this...you'd think the NRA's position is not exactly reasonable.

The gun violence in your country is going to have to get completely out of control before the problem is dealt with. I'm thinking that the political situation with Obama and racist hate could be the spark that sets it off.

I think there's a very conscious effort going on to cover up the fact that suicides in the military are due to feelings of guilt over what they did and were trained to do to human beings who looked different or were a different colour. They were trained to kill indiscriminately and now they have returned to 'real' life and are starting to understand how their personalities were manipulated. When leaving the military they are expected to revert back to normal caring human beings and they have received no guidance on how to do so.

You're free to your opinion, but I don't buy this. In the military we are trained to kill. We're not trained to kill people who "look different"...that's an extraneous qualifier. We're trained to kill the enemy, even if that enemy looked like any one of us.

Also, any mention of "brainwashing" or in this case "personality manipulation" is dismissible off-hand. There's coercion (indeed massive coercion) and a lot of indoctrination and of course there's propaganda like the AFN, but in the end, the consistent standard is following lawful orders. Most of what constitutes propaganda on the AFN is hideously poorly executed anyway...very few people buy that stuff (well, very few people I've met anyway). I used to work out to Bloomberg or TMC at the gym...not AFN.

Regarding "normal caring human beings", soldiers are no different. They have family, mothers, fathers, wives (mainly), daughters, sons, sisters, brothers. The scenario you're talking about (like the whole "Brothers" movie http://www.imdb.com...) is not what most soldiers face...that movie portrayed PTSD well, but not necessarily the causes of PTSD...it adds too much of a moral qualifier. The main problem with civilian integration is that, especially in a field like the infantry, the skills you learn in the military do not have pertinent civilian counterparts, so reintegration is a problem.

Most people I've met while serving overseas could not stop thinking about their spouses. I'd say that's a "normal caring human being" response to being separated for over a year for job related reasons.

This must not be acknowledged for this war as it wasn't acknowledged for the Vietnam war. The number of incidents decline over time.

A stopgap measure would certainly be to attempt to keep guns away from these sort of individuals and that can be partially accomplished on the bases where they are under supervision.

The military is more stressful than civilian life, no question. Combine that stress with alcohol, and you get a rather potent recipe. Combine that stress and alcohol with a divorce, a death in the family, a career-ending injury, etc, along with the fact that you don't get rich serving in the military, and well, things may begin to look bleak. I was also trained as a suicide awareness counselor, and this is what we dealt with in training more than anything else.
At 8/9/2013 9:41:24 AM, wrichcirw wrote:
If you are civil with me, I will be civil to you. If you decide to bring unreasonable animosity to bear in a reasonable discussion, then what would you expect other than to get flustered?
Kanti
Posts: 115
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4/4/2014 2:17:57 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
And so it begins. The Tea Party in the house are trying to end gun-free zones. The Democrats in the senate are reinvigorating the same angle they were during winter.
Kanti
Posts: 115
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4/4/2014 2:20:23 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/4/2014 12:02:00 PM, ItRemainsToBeSeen wrote:
This is so ungodly false. Not even slightly true and before you try to come up with some BS and fake argument I will have you know that I am a Suicide Prevention Master Brief Trainer in my unit. Try and tell me why suicides happen in the military. I dare you.

Please tell us more; I'm extremely interested in your perspective here in more detail. I see you eluded to it with wit, but tell us more.

Do you think a superior should be able to take off-base weapons when a soldier is going through psychiatric evaluation or suicide counseling? Or at least ask because the way I understand it the question is against the law as of 2010.
monty1
Posts: 1,084
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4/4/2014 2:30:07 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/4/2014 2:05:28 PM, wrichcirw wrote:
At 4/4/2014 11:41:29 AM, monty1 wrote:
At 4/4/2014 2:59:25 AM, wrichcirw wrote:
Example of military vs NRA:

http://www.csmonitor.com...

If the military has problems with this...you'd think the NRA's position is not exactly reasonable.

The gun violence in your country is going to have to get completely out of control before the problem is dealt with. I'm thinking that the political situation with Obama and racist hate could be the spark that sets it off.

I think there's a very conscious effort going on to cover up the fact that suicides in the military are due to feelings of guilt over what they did and were trained to do to human beings who looked different or were a different colour. They were trained to kill indiscriminately and now they have returned to 'real' life and are starting to understand how their personalities were manipulated. When leaving the military they are expected to revert back to normal caring human beings and they have received no guidance on how to do so.

You're free to your opinion, but I don't buy this. In the military we are trained to kill. We're not trained to kill people who "look different"...that's an extraneous qualifier. We're trained to kill the enemy, even if that enemy looked like any one of us.

Also, any mention of "brainwashing" or in this case "personality manipulation" is dismissible off-hand. There's coercion (indeed massive coercion) and a lot of indoctrination and of course there's propaganda like the AFN, but in the end, the consistent standard is following lawful orders. Most of what constitutes propaganda on the AFN is hideously poorly executed anyway...very few people buy that stuff (well, very few people I've met anyway). I used to work out to Bloomberg or TMC at the gym...not AFN.

Regarding "normal caring human beings", soldiers are no different. They have family, mothers, fathers, wives (mainly), daughters, sons, sisters, brothers. The scenario you're talking about (like the whole "Brothers" movie http://www.imdb.com...) is not what most soldiers face...that movie portrayed PTSD well, but not necessarily the causes of PTSD...it adds too much of a moral qualifier. The main problem with civilian integration is that, especially in a field like the infantry, the skills you learn in the military do not have pertinent civilian counterparts, so reintegration is a problem.

Most people I've met while serving overseas could not stop thinking about their spouses. I'd say that's a "normal caring human being" response to being separated for over a year for job related reasons.

This must not be acknowledged for this war as it wasn't acknowledged for the Vietnam war. The number of incidents decline over time.

A stopgap measure would certainly be to attempt to keep guns away from these sort of individuals and that can be partially accomplished on the bases where they are under supervision.

The military is more stressful than civilian life, no question. Combine that stress with alcohol, and you get a rather potent recipe. Combine that stress and alcohol with a divorce, a death in the family, a career-ending injury, etc, along with the fact that you don't get rich serving in the military, and well, things may begin to look bleak. I was also trained as a suicide awareness counselor, and this is what we dealt with in training more than anything else.

The military is trained to kill people and the people look different. That makes it easier. How's that work for you? Stop trying to bullsh-t me, I know as much or more about the problem as you do.

If you want to call the brainwashing 'coercion' then that's fine with me too.

Yes, soldiers are normal caring human beings just like on civvie street. That's the problem. When they are killing indiscriminately for a cause they are coerced into believing is a good cause, they come home and they begin to realize the cause wasn't a good one. There's where the rub starts.

I would suggest that many convicted murderers in jail continue to think about their children and spouses. That's loving and caring being directed to theirs while they are still coldblooded enough to kill (slaughter) others.

In a minority of cases the military is more stressful than civilian life. In the large majority it's a cakewalk and a job with benefits that last a lifetime. However, we are supposedly talking about the minority who are placed in high stress situations.

There's a reason for the high suicide rate. If you think you're the expert then let's hear your explanations. We can get right to the topic instead of skirting it with your apologies for the problems.
wrichcirw
Posts: 11,196
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4/4/2014 2:38:05 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/4/2014 2:30:07 PM, monty1 wrote:
At 4/4/2014 2:05:28 PM, wrichcirw wrote:

The military is trained to kill people and the people look different. That makes it easier. How's that work for you? Stop trying to bullsh-t me, I know as much or more about the problem as you do.

It simply doesn't work, and if you'd actually read my prior response you'd notice I already stated that.

If you want to call the brainwashing 'coercion' then that's fine with me too.

No, that's not "brainwashing". Otherwise any law passed for any reason would qualify as "brainwashing".

Yes, soldiers are normal caring human beings just like on civvie street. That's the problem. When they are killing indiscriminately for a cause they are coerced into believing is a good cause, they come home and they begin to realize the cause wasn't a good one. There's where the rub starts.

Cops do the same thing. Cops have standards as well. Cops have families as well. Regarding "cause", the military does not require that you believe what you are doing is "just", only that you do what you're told to do.

Do you feel like you're meting out justice in your job filing TPS reports? Why should the military be any different other than degree of importance of the work?

I would suggest that many convicted murderers in jail continue to think about their children and spouses. That's loving and caring being directed to theirs while they are still coldblooded enough to kill (slaughter) others.

I think a lot of convicted murderers in jail are convicted for murdering people close to them. Same goes for the military...had this Fort Hood shooter been arrested, he would have been imprisoned for murdering his fellow soldiers.

In a minority of cases the military is more stressful than civilian life. In the large majority it's a cakewalk and a job with benefits that last a lifetime. However, we are supposedly talking about the minority who are placed in high stress situations.

No, you are totally mistaken. Military life is unquestionably more rigorous than civilian life. Civilians are not required to work out 3-5 times a week for 2 hours per session, for example.

There's a reason for the high suicide rate. If you think you're the expert then let's hear your explanations. We can get right to the topic instead of skirting it with your apologies for the problems.

I don't make any apologies, and maybe you should ask a question if you want to actually get an answer.
At 8/9/2013 9:41:24 AM, wrichcirw wrote:
If you are civil with me, I will be civil to you. If you decide to bring unreasonable animosity to bear in a reasonable discussion, then what would you expect other than to get flustered?
Khaos_Mage
Posts: 23,214
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4/4/2014 2:44:36 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Because fighting Nazis and Italians didn't look anything like the Americans...
Or training to kill the Russians....
Or being prepared in our scores of bases around the world....

Yep, the military only train to kill those that don't look like "us", even though almost 1/3 of the military are not "us".
http://www.militaryonesource.mil...

It couldn't be that Americans are soft, and it extend into the military.
A cultural issue.
My work here is, finally, done.
monty1
Posts: 1,084
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4/4/2014 2:57:22 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
And how about a nice bubble gum ice cream cone for you kayos?

wrichcirw , You can start providing your explanation for the high suicide rate when you're ready. The rest of your post wasn't a denial of anything I said, just excuses for the military.

Working out is high stress? Working out and people who ensure you do work out is a bonus! Some of us do it because we are self-disciplined and we do it without having someone else motivate us. Don't start making stupid comments that you will regret if you intend to see this one out.

Some of us need to accept the truth before we can move on. If you don't understand that then you have nothing to forget or reconcile from your military life. You're not a suicide risk.
Khaos_Mage
Posts: 23,214
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4/4/2014 3:08:51 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/4/2014 2:57:22 PM, monty1 wrote:
And how about a nice bubble gum ice cream cone for you kayos?

Yes, please.
Then, whilst I'm eating it, you can remind me why I put you in a home to forget about you while you explain how our military is trained to kill those different than us, as opposed to blindly taking orders.

Then, you can explore the difference of military life and civilian life, and how, PTSD aside, it is an adjustment on your own.

YAY!!!
Free ice cream!!
The troll feed me for once!
My work here is, finally, done.
wrichcirw
Posts: 11,196
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4/4/2014 3:32:40 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/4/2014 2:57:22 PM, monty1 wrote:
And how about a nice bubble gum ice cream cone for you kayos?

wrichcirw , You can start providing your explanation for the high suicide rate when you're ready. The rest of your post wasn't a denial of anything I said, just excuses for the military.

My entire post was a denial and rebuttal of yours. I've already provided my own commentary on what the military trains for when it comes to suicide prevention, and have already told you that military life is unquestionably more stressful than civilian life.

Working out is high stress? Working out and people who ensure you do work out is a bonus! Some of us do it because we are self-disciplined and we do it without having someone else motivate us. Don't start making stupid comments that you will regret if you intend to see this one out.

Discipline entails stress. Lying out on your sofa flipping through channels with your remote is neither disciplined nor stressful.

Some of us need to accept the truth before we can move on. If you don't understand that then you have nothing to forget or reconcile from your military life. You're not a suicide risk.
At 8/9/2013 9:41:24 AM, wrichcirw wrote:
If you are civil with me, I will be civil to you. If you decide to bring unreasonable animosity to bear in a reasonable discussion, then what would you expect other than to get flustered?
monty1
Posts: 1,084
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4/4/2014 7:20:11 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/4/2014 3:32:40 PM, wrichcirw wrote:
At 4/4/2014 2:57:22 PM, monty1 wrote:
And how about a nice bubble gum ice cream cone for you kayos?

wrichcirw , You can start providing your explanation for the high suicide rate when you're ready. The rest of your post wasn't a denial of anything I said, just excuses for the military.

My entire post was a denial and rebuttal of yours. I've already provided my own commentary on what the military trains for when it comes to suicide prevention, and have already told you that military life is unquestionably more stressful than civilian life.

Working out is high stress? Working out and people who ensure you do work out is a bonus! Some of us do it because we are self-disciplined and we do it without having someone else motivate us. Don't start making stupid comments that you will regret if you intend to see this one out.

Discipline entails stress. Lying out on your sofa flipping through channels with your remote is neither disciplined nor stressful.

Some of us need to accept the truth before we can move on. If you don't understand that then you have nothing to forget or reconcile from your military life. You're not a suicide risk.T\

There is no stress in self-disciplining oneself to exercise and keep fit. And there's even less stress involved when the military holds yoiur hand and ensures you do it every day, or every other day, whatever?

And now you are going to get into explaining the high suicide rate in the military and in retired military people? Get on with it and let's see what you're made of or just STFU and stop posing as an expert.

I've laid out my explanation. Their heads are totally fukked up because of the training they had to kill innocents on false pretences. Ryhmes with Vietnam. And the ones that did kill on false pretences are more highly likely to end in suicides.

Now your explanation?
monty1
Posts: 1,084
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4/4/2014 7:38:20 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Damage control propaganda: http://www.huffingtonpost.com...

No, of course mental stability has nothing to do with a soldier shooting 20 or so of his namesake buddies and then offing himself. Perfectly normal behaviour for the military!

Suppwort the twoops!
wrichcirw
Posts: 11,196
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4/4/2014 8:34:58 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/4/2014 7:20:11 PM, monty1 wrote:
At 4/4/2014 3:32:40 PM, wrichcirw wrote:
At 4/4/2014 2:57:22 PM, monty1 wrote:
And how about a nice bubble gum ice cream cone for you kayos?

wrichcirw , You can start providing your explanation for the high suicide rate when you're ready. The rest of your post wasn't a denial of anything I said, just excuses for the military.

My entire post was a denial and rebuttal of yours. I've already provided my own commentary on what the military trains for when it comes to suicide prevention, and have already told you that military life is unquestionably more stressful than civilian life.

Working out is high stress? Working out and people who ensure you do work out is a bonus! Some of us do it because we are self-disciplined and we do it without having someone else motivate us. Don't start making stupid comments that you will regret if you intend to see this one out.

Discipline entails stress. Lying out on your sofa flipping through channels with your remote is neither disciplined nor stressful.

Some of us need to accept the truth before we can move on. If you don't understand that then you have nothing to forget or reconcile from your military life. You're not a suicide risk.T\

There is no stress in self-disciplining oneself to exercise and keep fit.

That discipline requires effort. Effort that you would otherwise be using to do something else. The more effort you exert, the more stress you incur. Working out is not pleasant. Keeping up consistency over time is taxing.

The military also keeps you busy and tends to have a schedule that keeps you on your toes. All of this is on top of your job, whatever it may be. Lots of mandatory crap outside of just working out...I figured I'd start there because you'd actually know what I'm talking about and (I hope) you'd be able to relate to it.

I don't expect you to relate when I tell you about mandatory anthrax and small pox vaccinations, the latter of which requires bio-containment units to properly process over the course of the several weeks during which you are "affected". Weakness to the point of collapsing during the pus phase is normal. These and other mandatory obligations are another type of unique stressor to military service.

And there's even less stress involved when the military holds yoiur hand and ensures you do it every day, or every other day, whatever?

Perhaps you feel less stressed when your boss threatens to fire you unless you do one task or another. Such is your...inclination. I'm fairly certain most people do not share your predilections.

And now you are going to get into explaining the high suicide rate in the military and in retired military people? Get on with it and let's see what you're made of or just STFU and stop posing as an expert.

"Retired" folks are different from veterans in general, who may not have done the full 20+ years. As it is, I'd like you to actually source retired military folks having a high suicide rate, higher than other retired folks. I find that (very) difficult to believe.

Veterans, especially those coming back from Iraq, face all kinds of issues, from medical to relational. Those that were medically discharged are especially at risk.

I've laid out my explanation. Their heads are totally fukked up because of the training they had to kill innocents on false pretences. Ryhmes with Vietnam. And the ones that did kill on false pretences are more highly likely to end in suicides.

There are no false pretenses. The military does not lie about who we kill. Politicians may lie about why we are killing them, but that's not something you can pin on military indoctrination. That's actually something you should pin on the populace, given a democracy that elected those politicians. America voted to go to war in Iraq...our politicians were pressured before an election to hype the war so that they'd keep their jobs...they kept them, and we went to war.

LBJ also created false pretenses to ramp up war efforts in Vietnam. The military carried out those orders, because the populace went along with it, at least initially...else they would have sacked LBJ and congress would not have approved the Gulf of Tonkin resolution. That the populace turned on both the government and the military is obvious scapegoating. It's the same in the 2008 financial crisis, where the populace blamed anyone and everyone BUT themselves for the economic meltdown. Such is democracy.

Now your explanation?
At 8/9/2013 9:41:24 AM, wrichcirw wrote:
If you are civil with me, I will be civil to you. If you decide to bring unreasonable animosity to bear in a reasonable discussion, then what would you expect other than to get flustered?
wrichcirw
Posts: 11,196
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4/4/2014 8:44:43 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/4/2014 7:38:20 PM, monty1 wrote:
Damage control propaganda: http://www.huffingtonpost.com...

No, of course mental stability has nothing to do with a soldier shooting 20 or so of his namesake buddies and then offing himself. Perfectly normal behaviour for the military!

Suppwort the twoops!

Please describe how this is "normal behavior". Wait, no...you're just trolling. Evidently what you consider to be "normal behavior" is something that everyone else BUT you considers to be abnormal.

Perhaps you should do all of us a favor and stop trolling.
At 8/9/2013 9:41:24 AM, wrichcirw wrote:
If you are civil with me, I will be civil to you. If you decide to bring unreasonable animosity to bear in a reasonable discussion, then what would you expect other than to get flustered?
Kanti
Posts: 115
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4/4/2014 8:52:59 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/4/2014 7:38:20 PM, monty1 wrote:
Damage control propaganda: http://www.huffingtonpost.com...

No, of course mental stability has nothing to do with a soldier shooting 20 or so of his namesake buddies and then offing himself. Perfectly normal behaviour for the military!

Suppwort the twoops!

Republicans in the house were actually saying he was jihadist who yelled Allahu Akhbar before he opened fire.

Not even kidding.
bubbatheclown
Posts: 1,258
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4/4/2014 8:59:05 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/3/2014 11:21:39 AM, monty1 wrote:
The gun came from the same dealer as the last shoot up at fort hood.



The NRA Song

Guns are neat, Guns are sweet
Guns the tool, what makes you cool.
Guns are fine, Guns are mine
Guns are things, that Jesus brings!

Guns for loonies, Guns for cons
Guns for Moonies, Guns for moms!

Guns are fun for everyone, buy them up by the ton.
Guns for me, Guns for you, Guns for nuts and children too!
Guns at home, Guns at work, Guns at play, Guns berserk!

Tons and tons of great big Guns,
Are tons and tons of great big fun!

I"ve got Guns up my nose "tween my ears and by my toes.
I"m no fool, I"m so cool, I take Guns to my school.
I take Guns in my car, to the store and to the bar.
I got Guns in a drawer, in my pocket and on the floor.
I got Guns on the wall, behind the toilet and in the hall.

I got guns in my bed, one is growing from my head!
Get a Gun and get it fast, Gun-Gun shoot-shoot is a blast!

Leave it to a liberal to take advantage of tragic shootings to push for stronger gun laws.
Khaos_Mage
Posts: 23,214
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4/4/2014 8:59:47 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/4/2014 8:44:43 PM, wrichcirw wrote:
At 4/4/2014 7:38:20 PM, monty1 wrote:
Damage control propaganda: http://www.huffingtonpost.com...

No, of course mental stability has nothing to do with a soldier shooting 20 or so of his namesake buddies and then offing himself. Perfectly normal behaviour for the military!

Suppwort the twoops!

Please describe how this is "normal behavior". Wait, no...you're just trolling. Evidently what you consider to be "normal behavior" is something that everyone else BUT you considers to be abnormal.

Perhaps you should do all of us a favor and stop trolling.

Are there any studies that suggest the infantry vs. field operatives vs. support staff kill themselves at higher rates?
I would assume they would, but I wonder.
My work here is, finally, done.
wrichcirw
Posts: 11,196
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4/4/2014 9:03:38 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/4/2014 8:59:47 PM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
At 4/4/2014 8:44:43 PM, wrichcirw wrote:
At 4/4/2014 7:38:20 PM, monty1 wrote:
Damage control propaganda: http://www.huffingtonpost.com...

No, of course mental stability has nothing to do with a soldier shooting 20 or so of his namesake buddies and then offing himself. Perfectly normal behaviour for the military!

Suppwort the twoops!

Please describe how this is "normal behavior". Wait, no...you're just trolling. Evidently what you consider to be "normal behavior" is something that everyone else BUT you considers to be abnormal.

Perhaps you should do all of us a favor and stop trolling.

Are there any studies that suggest the infantry vs. field operatives vs. support staff kill themselves at higher rates?
I would assume they would, but I wonder.

You can look at the branches of service. Suicide rates are lowest in the Air Force, and the vast majority of Air Force personnel play support roles.

In the Air Force, it's their number #1 killer...even though the suicide rate is LOWER than it is for the rest of the populace. That tells you how much of a support role most Air Force personnel fill...they rarely if ever see direct combat and suffer few if any actual casualties.
At 8/9/2013 9:41:24 AM, wrichcirw wrote:
If you are civil with me, I will be civil to you. If you decide to bring unreasonable animosity to bear in a reasonable discussion, then what would you expect other than to get flustered?
Kanti
Posts: 115
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4/4/2014 9:05:52 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/4/2014 8:59:05 PM, bubbatheclown wrote:
At 4/3/2014 11:21:39 AM, monty1 wrote:
The gun came from the same dealer as the last shoot up at fort hood.



The NRA Song

Guns are neat, Guns are sweet
Guns the tool, what makes you cool.
Guns are fine, Guns are mine
Guns are things, that Jesus brings!

Guns for loonies, Guns for cons
Guns for Moonies, Guns for moms!

Guns are fun for everyone, buy them up by the ton.
Guns for me, Guns for you, Guns for nuts and children too!
Guns at home, Guns at work, Guns at play, Guns berserk!

Tons and tons of great big Guns,
Are tons and tons of great big fun!

I"ve got Guns up my nose "tween my ears and by my toes.
I"m no fool, I"m so cool, I take Guns to my school.
I take Guns in my car, to the store and to the bar.
I got Guns in a drawer, in my pocket and on the floor.
I got Guns on the wall, behind the toilet and in the hall.

I got guns in my bed, one is growing from my head!
Get a Gun and get it fast, Gun-Gun shoot-shoot is a blast!

Leave it to a liberal to take advantage of tragic shootings to push for stronger gun laws.

Republican politicians do the same thing. They do it because they're bought out. At least on here you know it's because of personal convictions.
Khaos_Mage
Posts: 23,214
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4/4/2014 9:06:41 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/4/2014 9:03:38 PM, wrichcirw wrote:
At 4/4/2014 8:59:47 PM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
At 4/4/2014 8:44:43 PM, wrichcirw wrote:
At 4/4/2014 7:38:20 PM, monty1 wrote:
Damage control propaganda: http://www.huffingtonpost.com...

No, of course mental stability has nothing to do with a soldier shooting 20 or so of his namesake buddies and then offing himself. Perfectly normal behaviour for the military!

Suppwort the twoops!

Please describe how this is "normal behavior". Wait, no...you're just trolling. Evidently what you consider to be "normal behavior" is something that everyone else BUT you considers to be abnormal.

Perhaps you should do all of us a favor and stop trolling.

Are there any studies that suggest the infantry vs. field operatives vs. support staff kill themselves at higher rates?
I would assume they would, but I wonder.

You can look at the branches of service. Suicide rates are lowest in the Air Force, and the vast majority of Air Force personnel play support roles.

In the Air Force, it's their number #1 killer...even though the suicide rate is LOWER than it is for the rest of the populace. That tells you how much of a support role most Air Force personnel fill...they rarely if ever see direct combat and suffer few if any actual casualties.

True, but the causation could also be the Air Force are higher caliber mentally.
My brother told me to go there, since they are good to their soldiers (as they are intelligence/support).

If memory serves, Army is the easiest to get into, but Marines see more combat.
Is that true? If so, that could shed some light.
My work here is, finally, done.
Juan_Pablo
Posts: 2,052
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4/4/2014 10:00:45 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/3/2014 11:21:39 AM, monty1 wrote:
The gun came from the same dealer as the last shoot up at fort hood.



The NRA Song

Guns are neat, Guns are sweet
Guns the tool, what makes you cool.
Guns are fine, Guns are mine
Guns are things, that Jesus brings!

Guns for loonies, Guns for cons
Guns for Moonies, Guns for moms!

Guns are fun for everyone, buy them up by the ton.
Guns for me, Guns for you, Guns for nuts and children too!
Guns at home, Guns at work, Guns at play, Guns berserk!

Tons and tons of great big Guns,
Are tons and tons of great big fun!

I"ve got Guns up my nose "tween my ears and by my toes.
I"m no fool, I"m so cool, I take Guns to my school.
I take Guns in my car, to the store and to the bar.
I got Guns in a drawer, in my pocket and on the floor.
I got Guns on the wall, behind the toilet and in the hall.

I got guns in my bed, one is growing from my head!
Get a Gun and get it fast, Gun-Gun shoot-shoot is a blast!

I have to admit, this made me laugh.

My own opinion is that people have the right to own guns . . . but like all the other amendments, congress has the right to pass legislation to both clarify an amendment and restrict those rights.

People in prison, for example, don't have the right to vote and there's certain things we cannot say inside of crowded places. Congress has this right under the necessary and proper clause of the constitution.