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Where are all the rational conservatives

Rasputin45
Posts: 35
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4/15/2014 4:34:52 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
I have always had the impression that there are rational thinkers on both sides but all the conservatives I see around are either insane or ignorant. Is it just that conservatives crazies are the ones in the seats while the rationals are hidden.

Could you suggest a rational conservative?
Grigori Rasputin (James FRJ Hall)
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Stephen_Hawkins
Posts: 5,316
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4/15/2014 5:13:02 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
Oakeshott. Burke. Basically, look to Britain for the answers to your problems.
Give a man a fish, he'll eat for a day. Teach him how to be Gay, he'll positively influence the GDP.

Social Contract Theory debate: http://www.debate.org...
chass23RN
Posts: 43
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4/15/2014 3:11:07 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/15/2014 5:13:02 AM, Stephen_Hawkins wrote:
Oakeshott. Burke. Basically, look to Britain for the answers to your problems.

In your opinion what would make a rational conservative?
Stephen_Hawkins
Posts: 5,316
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4/15/2014 3:17:43 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/15/2014 3:11:07 PM, chass23RN wrote:
At 4/15/2014 5:13:02 AM, Stephen_Hawkins wrote:
Oakeshott. Burke. Basically, look to Britain for the answers to your problems.

In your opinion what would make a rational conservative?

Well, I tend to prefer referring to those who are respected across party lines, being the first factor. The second, ones that I see as deserving respect. And finally those who actually contributed to the thought of conservatism in some meaningful way. So Oakeshott, Burke, Hume, Popper, Santayana, etc.
Give a man a fish, he'll eat for a day. Teach him how to be Gay, he'll positively influence the GDP.

Social Contract Theory debate: http://www.debate.org...
Jifpop09
Posts: 2,243
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4/15/2014 3:22:06 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/15/2014 4:34:52 AM, Rasputin45 wrote:
I have always had the impression that there are rational thinkers on both sides but all the conservatives I see around are either insane or ignorant. Is it just that conservatives crazies are the ones in the seats while the rationals are hidden.

Could you suggest a rational conservative?

Non existent.
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Jifpop09
Posts: 2,243
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4/15/2014 3:23:49 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/15/2014 3:17:43 PM, Stephen_Hawkins wrote:
At 4/15/2014 3:11:07 PM, chass23RN wrote:
At 4/15/2014 5:13:02 AM, Stephen_Hawkins wrote:
Oakeshott. Burke. Basically, look to Britain for the answers to your problems.

In your opinion what would make a rational conservative?

Well, I tend to prefer referring to those who are respected across party lines, being the first factor. The second, ones that I see as deserving respect. And finally those who actually contributed to the thought of conservatism in some meaningful way. So Oakeshott, Burke, Hume, Popper, Santayana, etc.

I would agree with you, but the British conservative party is classified as a left wing party, just like the Japanese liberal party is right wing. They are pro-socialism in most regards, but do have a vocal stance against Christianity.
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Stephen_Hawkins
Posts: 5,316
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4/15/2014 3:59:36 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/15/2014 3:23:49 PM, Jifpop09 wrote:
At 4/15/2014 3:17:43 PM, Stephen_Hawkins wrote:
At 4/15/2014 3:11:07 PM, chass23RN wrote:
At 4/15/2014 5:13:02 AM, Stephen_Hawkins wrote:
Oakeshott. Burke. Basically, look to Britain for the answers to your problems.

In your opinion what would make a rational conservative?

Well, I tend to prefer referring to those who are respected across party lines, being the first factor. The second, ones that I see as deserving respect. And finally those who actually contributed to the thought of conservatism in some meaningful way. So Oakeshott, Burke, Hume, Popper, Santayana, etc.

I would agree with you, but the British conservative party is classified as a left wing party, just like the Japanese liberal party is right wing. They are pro-socialism in most regards, but do have a vocal stance against Christianity.

Except the British conservative party isn't left wing by any stretch of the imagination. It has been consistently pro-privatisation, pro-private property, pro-free markets, pro-family values, and anti-nationalisation, anti-interventionism, anti-unions, anti-class-warfare, etc.

There is a large difference between being right-wing, and being insane. The UK has a strong history of consensus politics - like a lot of old democracies, notable exceptions being the USA - but that does not lead to "socialism".
Give a man a fish, he'll eat for a day. Teach him how to be Gay, he'll positively influence the GDP.

Social Contract Theory debate: http://www.debate.org...
Jifpop09
Posts: 2,243
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4/15/2014 4:01:20 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/15/2014 3:59:36 PM, Stephen_Hawkins wrote:
At 4/15/2014 3:23:49 PM, Jifpop09 wrote:
At 4/15/2014 3:17:43 PM, Stephen_Hawkins wrote:
At 4/15/2014 3:11:07 PM, chass23RN wrote:
At 4/15/2014 5:13:02 AM, Stephen_Hawkins wrote:
Oakeshott. Burke. Basically, look to Britain for the answers to your problems.

In your opinion what would make a rational conservative?

Well, I tend to prefer referring to those who are respected across party lines, being the first factor. The second, ones that I see as deserving respect. And finally those who actually contributed to the thought of conservatism in some meaningful way. So Oakeshott, Burke, Hume, Popper, Santayana, etc.

I would agree with you, but the British conservative party is classified as a left wing party, just like the Japanese liberal party is right wing. They are pro-socialism in most regards, but do have a vocal stance against Christianity.

Except the British conservative party isn't left wing by any stretch of the imagination. It has been consistently pro-privatisation, pro-private property, pro-free markets, pro-family values, and anti-nationalisation, anti-interventionism, anti-unions, anti-class-warfare, etc.

There is a large difference between being right-wing, and being insane. The UK has a strong history of consensus politics - like a lot of old democracies, notable exceptions being the USA - but that does not lead to "socialism".

I'll do some more research, but I can take the middle ground on them being moderate. After I look around, I'll get back to you.
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Stephen_Hawkins
Posts: 5,316
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4/15/2014 4:13:10 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
As a British student, who studies politics, I can promise you that to call the conservatives left-wing is to use a bastardised American definition of "left" and "right" which cannot be applied outside your own country.

In the USA, the republicans are classical liberals, the democrats are the new liberals, and the Greens are more progressive liberals than the others. The libertarians are also liberals.

By contrast, the rest of the world has conservatives, socialists, communists, marxists, ecologists (actual ecologists), and a smattering of liberals on top. The UK is no exception - the Labour Party are neorevisionary socialists (or liberal-socialist mix), with the lib dems being the modern liberals and the Conservatives being liberal conservatives.
Give a man a fish, he'll eat for a day. Teach him how to be Gay, he'll positively influence the GDP.

Social Contract Theory debate: http://www.debate.org...
TrueScotsman
Posts: 515
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4/15/2014 4:17:13 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/15/2014 4:34:52 AM, Rasputin45 wrote:
I have always had the impression that there are rational thinkers on both sides but all the conservatives I see around are either insane or ignorant. Is it just that conservatives crazies are the ones in the seats while the rationals are hidden.

Could you suggest a rational conservative?

I usually take the stance that it is unwise to make generalizations about a group off of the basis of their participation on an internet forum.

I know plenty of people who are rational and yet conservative (I am kind of a Centrist myself), but aren't extremely politically motivated.

Most famous politicians who are conservative generally aren't very rational because the represent a group of people who also aren't known for being rational.
YYW
Posts: 36,242
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4/15/2014 6:07:42 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/15/2014 4:34:52 AM, Rasputin45 wrote:
I have always had the impression that there are rational thinkers on both sides but all the conservatives I see around are either insane or ignorant. Is it just that conservatives crazies are the ones in the seats while the rationals are hidden.

Could you suggest a rational conservative?

I'm curious what your standard for "rational" is... what do you think it means to be rational? How would you know a rational person from an irrational person? What makes a person irrational?