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Motivations Behind Russia's Interventions

Jifpop09
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4/16/2014 7:34:46 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Since Russia's founding, they have engaged in aggressive civil wars with their neighbors. They voluntarily invite themselves in, claiming they're there to prevent genocide, democide, ect. Not only is this faulty at first glance, but upon further inspections, the arguments completely fall apart. Here are my theories (more like truths) behind the real motivations of Russia.

Transinistria War: Moldova, having a strategic spot to the east of Ukraine, once fought a civil war with a group of dissident communists. The rebels could of easily been crushed, until Russia got involved. Without the slightest bit of reasoning, they had a division help the land strip gain de facto independence. The war, was simply fought recklessly to hold on to an illegal piece of land that Russia recognized as apart of Moldova. And they did the exact same thing in Ukraine, and denied involvement. To this day, Russia still has illegal troops within the land, which are now running exercises along Ukraine's border.

Georgian Civil War: The real motivation behind Russian involvement in Georgia, was not ethnic cleansing or protecting the political rights of Georgians, but a excuse to invade and occupy another country, declare independence, and occupy it for decades. They wanted black sea domination, and to destroy Georgian competition with Russian companies. That was the true motivation, and is the only reason why they recognized these otherwise unrecognized nations.

Crimean Crisis: Due to an advancement of intelligence technology, we were able to prove beyond a doubt that Putin was lying about genocide, Russian troops within the peninsula, and that the Ukranian government was running an organized campaign against ethnic Russians. Using the same tactic as the previous two wars, they simply invaded and denied involvement.

Lets anaylze why they invaded though.....

-To become the only naval power in the black sea.

- To retain the black fleet, which was most likely going to be removed.

-To gain sole access to Ukranian coastal oil.

- And to monopolize shipping in the black sea.

Russian Soldiers in Donetsk.

Now this is whats currently happening. The same thing happened as in Crimea. Putin claims ethnic genocide, Duma supports referendums, Russian agents invade and deny they're there, and subsequently kick the government out. Some may be wondering why Donetsk though. Simple, Russia seeks to have sole control of every resource in eastern Europe. The second largest export after Petroleum are precious metals, and guess who has one of the richest mining regions in the world? Ukraine. That explains why the masked men of Russia, have only attacked in this region. If actual rebel resistance was happening, then how come the past 6 attacks in a row have all been concentrated in the same place, by the same uniformed soldiers, in the same region?
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wrichcirw
Posts: 11,196
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4/16/2014 8:04:13 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
All countries are like this. The US intervened in Kuwait over something similar, we bombed the crap out of Saddam and wrecked that country...twice.

Japan intervened in China, ostensibly to purge Western influence in their wars.

European nations used similar justification, i.e. the "white man's burden" to conduct genocide globally, i.e. colonization.

Keep going back, and you'll find that every nation that experienced any territorial expansion did things that are similar to what Russia is doing now.

The real question is not whether or not they're ideologically justified...but whether or not anyone can stop them. Run a military calculus and see if anyone can stop Russia without triggering MAD.
At 8/9/2013 9:41:24 AM, wrichcirw wrote:
If you are civil with me, I will be civil to you. If you decide to bring unreasonable animosity to bear in a reasonable discussion, then what would you expect other than to get flustered?
fazz
Posts: 1,617
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4/17/2014 10:06:04 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
Well, the reports i heard said that the US should not have invaded Syria, etc and other exploits that embarassed Putiins' russias sovereignity?

Proof: Russian Troop tries to invade into Eastern Ukraine with a boy:
ararmer1919
Posts: 362
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4/17/2014 12:12:22 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/17/2014 10:06:04 AM, fazz wrote:
Well, the reports i heard said that the US should not have invaded Syria, etc and other exploits that embarassed Putiins' russias sovereignity?

Proof: Russian Troop tries to invade into Eastern Ukraine with a boy:

The US has never invaded Syria
monty1
Posts: 1,084
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4/17/2014 12:17:11 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/16/2014 8:04:13 PM, wrichcirw wrote:
All countries are like this. The US intervened in Kuwait over something similar, we bombed the crap out of Saddam and wrecked that country...twice.

Japan intervened in China, ostensibly to purge Western influence in their wars.

European nations used similar justification, i.e. the "white man's burden" to conduct genocide globally, i.e. colonization.

Keep going back, and you'll find that every nation that experienced any territorial expansion did things that are similar to what Russia is doing now.

The real question is not whether or not they're ideologically justified...but whether or not anyone can stop them. Run a military calculus and see if anyone can stop Russia without triggering MAD.

There's little doubt that you understand the purpose of propaganda and have fed right into it.

So starting with the invasion of Kuwait, you understand and accept that there had to be a pretext for war with Iraq. And I don't think I need to remind you of all the evidence that points to a setup of Saddam, but if you're not fully versed in that I can. Suffice to say that it's a pretty tough sell to suggest that the two wars against Iraq were not for the same purpose! The second one blew the cover story completely!

And as for a similarity with what Russia is doing now, the Vietnam war fits that foot quite nicely. Were the dominoes falling or were the Vietnamese people attempting to reunify their country for those many years since France's colonial enterprising efforts?

Is the US/Nato attempting to bring the Ukraine into the Nato fold? Could it be that Russia is attempting to prevent that from happening? Or is Russia intent on grabbing Europe? I would suggest that Russia had no choice with the Crimea because something turned a peaceful relationship sour. That's where Russia won a clearcut moral victory and that is difficult to dispute at this late date.

And so we can sit and watch how it proceeds on the ground with the Eastern Ukraine. We'll both attempt to stay immune from the propaganda of both sides.

I'm really quite surprised that you would offer such a simplistic overview of the whole reason wars happen. Or, on the other hand, maybe I have overestimated your capability to understand reality.
wrichcirw
Posts: 11,196
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4/17/2014 12:47:47 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/17/2014 12:17:11 PM, monty1 wrote:
At 4/16/2014 8:04:13 PM, wrichcirw wrote:
All countries are like this. The US intervened in Kuwait over something similar, we bombed the crap out of Saddam and wrecked that country...twice.

Japan intervened in China, ostensibly to purge Western influence in their wars.

European nations used similar justification, i.e. the "white man's burden" to conduct genocide globally, i.e. colonization.

Keep going back, and you'll find that every nation that experienced any territorial expansion did things that are similar to what Russia is doing now.

The real question is not whether or not they're ideologically justified...but whether or not anyone can stop them. Run a military calculus and see if anyone can stop Russia without triggering MAD.

There's little doubt that you understand the purpose of propaganda and have fed right into it.

So starting with the invasion of Kuwait, you understand and accept that there had to be a pretext for war with Iraq. And I don't think I need to remind you of all the evidence that points to a setup of Saddam, but if you're not fully versed in that I can. Suffice to say that it's a pretty tough sell to suggest that the two wars against Iraq were not for the same purpose! The second one blew the cover story completely!

And as for a similarity with what Russia is doing now, the Vietnam war fits that foot quite nicely. Were the dominoes falling or were the Vietnamese people attempting to reunify their country for those many years since France's colonial enterprising efforts?

Is the US/Nato attempting to bring the Ukraine into the Nato fold? Could it be that Russia is attempting to prevent that from happening? Or is Russia intent on grabbing Europe? I would suggest that Russia had no choice with the Crimea because something turned a peaceful relationship sour. That's where Russia won a clearcut moral victory and that is difficult to dispute at this late date.

And so we can sit and watch how it proceeds on the ground with the Eastern Ukraine. We'll both attempt to stay immune from the propaganda of both sides.

I'm really quite surprised that you would offer such a simplistic overview of the whole reason wars happen. Or, on the other hand, maybe I have overestimated your capability to understand reality.

I'm going to politely ask that you not respond to anything I write. I have no wish to interact with anyone that I find has been blatantly lying while making arguments.
At 8/9/2013 9:41:24 AM, wrichcirw wrote:
If you are civil with me, I will be civil to you. If you decide to bring unreasonable animosity to bear in a reasonable discussion, then what would you expect other than to get flustered?
monty1
Posts: 1,084
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4/17/2014 1:00:00 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/17/2014 12:47:47 PM, wrichcirw wrote:
At 4/17/2014 12:17:11 PM, monty1 wrote:
At 4/16/2014 8:04:13 PM, wrichcirw wrote:
All countries are like this. The US intervened in Kuwait over something similar, we bombed the crap out of Saddam and wrecked that country...twice.

Japan intervened in China, ostensibly to purge Western influence in their wars.

European nations used similar justification, i.e. the "white man's burden" to conduct genocide globally, i.e. colonization.

Keep going back, and you'll find that every nation that experienced any territorial expansion did things that are similar to what Russia is doing now.

The real question is not whether or not they're ideologically justified...but whether or not anyone can stop them. Run a military calculus and see if anyone can stop Russia without triggering MAD.

There's little doubt that you understand the purpose of propaganda and have fed right into it.

So starting with the invasion of Kuwait, you understand and accept that there had to be a pretext for war with Iraq. And I don't think I need to remind you of all the evidence that points to a setup of Saddam, but if you're not fully versed in that I can. Suffice to say that it's a pretty tough sell to suggest that the two wars against Iraq were not for the same purpose! The second one blew the cover story completely!

And as for a similarity with what Russia is doing now, the Vietnam war fits that foot quite nicely. Were the dominoes falling or were the Vietnamese people attempting to reunify their country for those many years since France's colonial enterprising efforts?

Is the US/Nato attempting to bring the Ukraine into the Nato fold? Could it be that Russia is attempting to prevent that from happening? Or is Russia intent on grabbing Europe? I would suggest that Russia had no choice with the Crimea because something turned a peaceful relationship sour. That's where Russia won a clearcut moral victory and that is difficult to dispute at this late date.

And so we can sit and watch how it proceeds on the ground with the Eastern Ukraine. We'll both attempt to stay immune from the propaganda of both sides.

I'm really quite surprised that you would offer such a simplistic overview of the whole reason wars happen. Or, on the other hand, maybe I have overestimated your capability to understand reality.

I'm going to politely ask that you not respond to anything I write. I have no wish to interact with anyone that I find has been blatantly lying while making arguments.

No, I can't abide by your wishes. You can react to it any way you choose though. I would just say, isn't it ironic that you can accept the lies and false innuendoes of your fellow Americans yet can't accept a countrer lie to stir up their emotions a little. Gee, it had them seething with rage for a full 24 hours!

You're not going to find a sensible and rational challenge to the USBS than you are going to get from me. If you want it to be a mutual as5licking of Americans with their propaganda then fill your boots pal. I'm going to keep reminding you that life isn't all that simple.

And I still think you're just barely smart enough to understand some of the lobical counterspin I've got for you.
wrichcirw
Posts: 11,196
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4/17/2014 1:24:05 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/17/2014 1:00:00 PM, monty1 wrote:
At 4/17/2014 12:47:47 PM, wrichcirw wrote:
At 4/17/2014 12:17:11 PM, monty1 wrote:
At 4/16/2014 8:04:13 PM, wrichcirw wrote:
All countries are like this. The US intervened in Kuwait over something similar, we bombed the crap out of Saddam and wrecked that country...twice.

Japan intervened in China, ostensibly to purge Western influence in their wars.

European nations used similar justification, i.e. the "white man's burden" to conduct genocide globally, i.e. colonization.

Keep going back, and you'll find that every nation that experienced any territorial expansion did things that are similar to what Russia is doing now.

The real question is not whether or not they're ideologically justified...but whether or not anyone can stop them. Run a military calculus and see if anyone can stop Russia without triggering MAD.

There's little doubt that you understand the purpose of propaganda and have fed right into it.

So starting with the invasion of Kuwait, you understand and accept that there had to be a pretext for war with Iraq. And I don't think I need to remind you of all the evidence that points to a setup of Saddam, but if you're not fully versed in that I can. Suffice to say that it's a pretty tough sell to suggest that the two wars against Iraq were not for the same purpose! The second one blew the cover story completely!

And as for a similarity with what Russia is doing now, the Vietnam war fits that foot quite nicely. Were the dominoes falling or were the Vietnamese people attempting to reunify their country for those many years since France's colonial enterprising efforts?

Is the US/Nato attempting to bring the Ukraine into the Nato fold? Could it be that Russia is attempting to prevent that from happening? Or is Russia intent on grabbing Europe? I would suggest that Russia had no choice with the Crimea because something turned a peaceful relationship sour. That's where Russia won a clearcut moral victory and that is difficult to dispute at this late date.

And so we can sit and watch how it proceeds on the ground with the Eastern Ukraine. We'll both attempt to stay immune from the propaganda of both sides.

I'm really quite surprised that you would offer such a simplistic overview of the whole reason wars happen. Or, on the other hand, maybe I have overestimated your capability to understand reality.

I'm going to politely ask that you not respond to anything I write. I have no wish to interact with anyone that I find has been blatantly lying while making arguments.

No, I can't abide by your wishes. You can react to it any way you choose though. I would just say, isn't it ironic that you can accept the lies and false innuendoes of your fellow Americans yet can't accept a countrer lie to stir up their emotions a little. Gee, it had them seething with rage for a full 24 hours!

You're not going to find a sensible and rational challenge to the USBS than you are going to get from me. If you want it to be a mutual as5licking of Americans with their propaganda then fill your boots pal. I'm going to keep reminding you that life isn't all that simple.

And I still think you're just barely smart enough to understand some of the lobical counterspin I've got for you.

I think your habit of making personal attacks and overall just trolling for kicks ensures that few people will want to converse with you.
At 8/9/2013 9:41:24 AM, wrichcirw wrote:
If you are civil with me, I will be civil to you. If you decide to bring unreasonable animosity to bear in a reasonable discussion, then what would you expect other than to get flustered?
monty1
Posts: 1,084
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4/17/2014 1:32:19 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/17/2014 1:24:05 PM, wrichcirw wrote:
At 4/17/2014 1:00:00 PM, monty1 wrote:
At 4/17/2014 12:47:47 PM, wrichcirw wrote:
At 4/17/2014 12:17:11 PM, monty1 wrote:
At 4/16/2014 8:04:13 PM, wrichcirw wrote:
All countries are like this. The US intervened in Kuwait over something similar, we bombed the crap out of Saddam and wrecked that country...twice.

Japan intervened in China, ostensibly to purge Western influence in their wars.

European nations used similar justification, i.e. the "white man's burden" to conduct genocide globally, i.e. colonization.

Keep going back, and you'll find that every nation that experienced any territorial expansion did things that are similar to what Russia is doing now.

The real question is not whether or not they're ideologically justified...but whether or not anyone can stop them. Run a military calculus and see if anyone can stop Russia without triggering MAD.

There's little doubt that you understand the purpose of propaganda and have fed right into it.

So starting with the invasion of Kuwait, you understand and accept that there had to be a pretext for war with Iraq. And I don't think I need to remind you of all the evidence that points to a setup of Saddam, but if you're not fully versed in that I can. Suffice to say that it's a pretty tough sell to suggest that the two wars against Iraq were not for the same purpose! The second one blew the cover story completely!

And as for a similarity with what Russia is doing now, the Vietnam war fits that foot quite nicely. Were the dominoes falling or were the Vietnamese people attempting to reunify their country for those many years since France's colonial enterprising efforts?

Is the US/Nato attempting to bring the Ukraine into the Nato fold? Could it be that Russia is attempting to prevent that from happening? Or is Russia intent on grabbing Europe? I would suggest that Russia had no choice with the Crimea because something turned a peaceful relationship sour. That's where Russia won a clearcut moral victory and that is difficult to dispute at this late date.

And so we can sit and watch how it proceeds on the ground with the Eastern Ukraine. We'll both attempt to stay immune from the propaganda of both sides.

I'm really quite surprised that you would offer such a simplistic overview of the whole reason wars happen. Or, on the other hand, maybe I have overestimated your capability to understand reality.

I'm going to politely ask that you not respond to anything I write. I have no wish to interact with anyone that I find has been blatantly lying while making arguments.

No, I can't abide by your wishes. You can react to it any way you choose though. I would just say, isn't it ironic that you can accept the lies and false innuendoes of your fellow Americans yet can't accept a countrer lie to stir up their emotions a little. Gee, it had them seething with rage for a full 24 hours!

You're not going to find a sensible and rational challenge to the USBS than you are going to get from me. If you want it to be a mutual as5licking of Americans with their propaganda then fill your boots pal. I'm going to keep reminding you that life isn't all that simple.

And I still think you're just barely smart enough to understand some of the lobical counterspin I've got for you.

I think your habit of making personal attacks and overall just trolling for kicks ensures that few people will want to converse with you.

I really don't care all that much what they do. If any of you consider me to be trolling then I'm interpreting that as me getting my message across. Haven't you heard the other nitwits calling for me to be banned from this forum for expressing my opinions? Perfect!

If you want a challenging debate then you keep coming back to the right place. If all you want is to be able to lick the as5holes of your intellectual inferiors then you go right ahead. The noise in your head can't be wished away.

And btw, you mostly agree with my logic anyway. Boo fukin hoo hoo!
wrichcirw
Posts: 11,196
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4/17/2014 1:34:27 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/17/2014 1:32:19 PM, monty1 wrote:
At 4/17/2014 1:24:05 PM, wrichcirw wrote:
At 4/17/2014 1:00:00 PM, monty1 wrote:
At 4/17/2014 12:47:47 PM, wrichcirw wrote:
At 4/17/2014 12:17:11 PM, monty1 wrote:
At 4/16/2014 8:04:13 PM, wrichcirw wrote:
All countries are like this. The US intervened in Kuwait over something similar, we bombed the crap out of Saddam and wrecked that country...twice.

Japan intervened in China, ostensibly to purge Western influence in their wars.

European nations used similar justification, i.e. the "white man's burden" to conduct genocide globally, i.e. colonization.

Keep going back, and you'll find that every nation that experienced any territorial expansion did things that are similar to what Russia is doing now.

The real question is not whether or not they're ideologically justified...but whether or not anyone can stop them. Run a military calculus and see if anyone can stop Russia without triggering MAD.

There's little doubt that you understand the purpose of propaganda and have fed right into it.

So starting with the invasion of Kuwait, you understand and accept that there had to be a pretext for war with Iraq. And I don't think I need to remind you of all the evidence that points to a setup of Saddam, but if you're not fully versed in that I can. Suffice to say that it's a pretty tough sell to suggest that the two wars against Iraq were not for the same purpose! The second one blew the cover story completely!

And as for a similarity with what Russia is doing now, the Vietnam war fits that foot quite nicely. Were the dominoes falling or were the Vietnamese people attempting to reunify their country for those many years since France's colonial enterprising efforts?

Is the US/Nato attempting to bring the Ukraine into the Nato fold? Could it be that Russia is attempting to prevent that from happening? Or is Russia intent on grabbing Europe? I would suggest that Russia had no choice with the Crimea because something turned a peaceful relationship sour. That's where Russia won a clearcut moral victory and that is difficult to dispute at this late date.

And so we can sit and watch how it proceeds on the ground with the Eastern Ukraine. We'll both attempt to stay immune from the propaganda of both sides.

I'm really quite surprised that you would offer such a simplistic overview of the whole reason wars happen. Or, on the other hand, maybe I have overestimated your capability to understand reality.

I'm going to politely ask that you not respond to anything I write. I have no wish to interact with anyone that I find has been blatantly lying while making arguments.

No, I can't abide by your wishes. You can react to it any way you choose though. I would just say, isn't it ironic that you can accept the lies and false innuendoes of your fellow Americans yet can't accept a countrer lie to stir up their emotions a little. Gee, it had them seething with rage for a full 24 hours!

You're not going to find a sensible and rational challenge to the USBS than you are going to get from me. If you want it to be a mutual as5licking of Americans with their propaganda then fill your boots pal. I'm going to keep reminding you that life isn't all that simple.

And I still think you're just barely smart enough to understand some of the lobical counterspin I've got for you.

I think your habit of making personal attacks and overall just trolling for kicks ensures that few people will want to converse with you.

I really don't care all that much what they do. If any of you consider me to be trolling then I'm interpreting that as me getting my message across. Haven't you heard the other nitwits calling for me to be banned from this forum for expressing my opinions? Perfect!

People don't want you banned from the forums because of your opinions. People want you banned because you are unduly insulting and have a penchant for falsely manipulating information.

If you want a challenging debate then you keep coming back to the right place. If all you want is to be able to lick the as5holes of your intellectual inferiors then you go right ahead. The noise in your head can't be wished away.

And btw, you mostly agree with my logic anyway. Boo fukin hoo hoo!
At 8/9/2013 9:41:24 AM, wrichcirw wrote:
If you are civil with me, I will be civil to you. If you decide to bring unreasonable animosity to bear in a reasonable discussion, then what would you expect other than to get flustered?
Jifpop09
Posts: 2,243
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4/17/2014 1:38:55 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/16/2014 8:04:13 PM, wrichcirw wrote:
All countries are like this. The US intervened in Kuwait over something similar, we bombed the crap out of Saddam and wrecked that country...twice.

Japan intervened in China, ostensibly to purge Western influence in their wars.

European nations used similar justification, i.e. the "white man's burden" to conduct genocide globally, i.e. colonization.

Keep going back, and you'll find that every nation that experienced any territorial expansion did things that are similar to what Russia is doing now.

The real question is not whether or not they're ideologically justified...but whether or not anyone can stop them. Run a military calculus and see if anyone can stop Russia without triggering MAD.

Agree with everything you said, but with a slightly twisted view. I think most people have good reasons, but proper judgement is blinded by greed and external benefits.

I doubt Russia will use nukes, but it should certainly be factored into any decision we make.
Leader of the DDO Revolution Party
monty1
Posts: 1,084
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4/17/2014 1:50:04 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
wrichcriw said: "People don't want you banned from the forums because of your opinions. People want you banned because you are unduly insulting and have a penchant for falsely manipulating information."

Sorry, but the fact is that some of the kids went off on the banning idea long before it broke down into a pissing match with me. Some of them are so ideologically dogmatic with upholding the American propaganda spin that they couldn't resist the temptation to call for me to be banned. I could prove it by going back and showing you the proof of that but I'm not really finding any motivation to do so. Case closed as far as I'm concerned. And it doesn't matter a lick anyway does it.

The fact is, you have set the bar for their ilk too high already yourself. If you want to go on pretending then you go right ahead, I'm not really interested.

Now try to rise above the bullsh!t, even though they can't. We have better things to discuss.
Jifpop09
Posts: 2,243
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4/17/2014 1:51:44 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/17/2014 12:17:11 PM, monty1 wrote:
At 4/16/2014 8:04:13 PM, wrichcirw wrote:
All countries are like this. The US intervened in Kuwait over something similar, we bombed the crap out of Saddam and wrecked that country...twice.

Japan intervened in China, ostensibly to purge Western influence in their wars.

European nations used similar justification, i.e. the "white man's burden" to conduct genocide globally, i.e. colonization.

Keep going back, and you'll find that every nation that experienced any territorial expansion did things that are similar to what Russia is doing now.

The real question is not whether or not they're ideologically justified...but whether or not anyone can stop them. Run a military calculus and see if anyone can stop Russia without triggering MAD.

There's little doubt that you understand the purpose of propaganda and have fed right into it.

So starting with the invasion of Kuwait, you understand and accept that there had to be a pretext for war with Iraq. And I don't think I need to remind you of all the evidence that points to a setup of Saddam, but if you're not fully versed in that I can. Suffice to say that it's a pretty tough sell to suggest that the two wars against Iraq were not for the same purpose! The second one blew the cover story completely!

And as for a similarity with what Russia is doing now, the Vietnam war fits that foot quite nicely. Were the dominoes falling or were the Vietnamese people attempting to reunify their country for those many years since France's colonial enterprising efforts?

Is the US/Nato attempting to bring the Ukraine into the Nato fold? Could it be that Russia is attempting to prevent that from happening? Or is Russia intent on grabbing Europe? I would suggest that Russia had no choice with the Crimea because something turned a peaceful relationship sour. That's where Russia won a clearcut moral victory and that is difficult to dispute at this late date.

And so we can sit and watch how it proceeds on the ground with the Eastern Ukraine. We'll both attempt to stay immune from the propaganda of both sides.

I'm really quite surprised that you would offer such a simplistic overview of the whole reason wars happen. Or, on the other hand, maybe I have overestimated your capability to understand reality.

There is a 0% chance that Ukraine will join NATO in the near future nor would they be wanted in it. Countries much closer like Macedonia and Bulgaria have been trying to get in for a decade.
Leader of the DDO Revolution Party
Jifpop09
Posts: 2,243
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4/17/2014 1:57:42 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/17/2014 1:34:27 PM, wrichcirw wrote:
At 4/17/2014 1:32:19 PM, monty1 wrote:
At 4/17/2014 1:24:05 PM, wrichcirw wrote:
At 4/17/2014 1:00:00 PM, monty1 wrote:
At 4/17/2014 12:47:47 PM, wrichcirw wrote:
At 4/17/2014 12:17:11 PM, monty1 wrote:
At 4/16/2014 8:04:13 PM, wrichcirw wrote:
All countries are like this. The US intervened in Kuwait over something similar, we bombed the crap out of Saddam and wrecked that country...twice.

Japan intervened in China, ostensibly to purge Western influence in their wars.

European nations used similar justification, i.e. the "white man's burden" to conduct genocide globally, i.e. colonization.

Keep going back, and you'll find that every nation that experienced any territorial expansion did things that are similar to what Russia is doing now.

The real question is not whether or not they're ideologically justified...but whether or not anyone can stop them. Run a military calculus and see if anyone can stop Russia without triggering MAD.

There's little doubt that you understand the purpose of propaganda and have fed right into it.

So starting with the invasion of Kuwait, you understand and accept that there had to be a pretext for war with Iraq. And I don't think I need to remind you of all the evidence that points to a setup of Saddam, but if you're not fully versed in that I can. Suffice to say that it's a pretty tough sell to suggest that the two wars against Iraq were not for the same purpose! The second one blew the cover story completely!

And as for a similarity with what Russia is doing now, the Vietnam war fits that foot quite nicely. Were the dominoes falling or were the Vietnamese people attempting to reunify their country for those many years since France's colonial enterprising efforts?

Is the US/Nato attempting to bring the Ukraine into the Nato fold? Could it be that Russia is attempting to prevent that from happening? Or is Russia intent on grabbing Europe? I would suggest that Russia had no choice with the Crimea because something turned a peaceful relationship sour. That's where Russia won a clearcut moral victory and that is difficult to dispute at this late date.

And so we can sit and watch how it proceeds on the ground with the Eastern Ukraine. We'll both attempt to stay immune from the propaganda of both sides.

I'm really quite surprised that you would offer such a simplistic overview of the whole reason wars happen. Or, on the other hand, maybe I have overestimated your capability to understand reality.

I'm going to politely ask that you not respond to anything I write. I have no wish to interact with anyone that I find has been blatantly lying while making arguments.

No, I can't abide by your wishes. You can react to it any way you choose though. I would just say, isn't it ironic that you can accept the lies and false innuendoes of your fellow Americans yet can't accept a countrer lie to stir up their emotions a little. Gee, it had them seething with rage for a full 24 hours!

You're not going to find a sensible and rational challenge to the USBS than you are going to get from me. If you want it to be a mutual as5licking of Americans with their propaganda then fill your boots pal. I'm going to keep reminding you that life isn't all that simple.

And I still think you're just barely smart enough to understand some of the lobical counterspin I've got for you.

I think your habit of making personal attacks and overall just trolling for kicks ensures that few people will want to converse with you.

I really don't care all that much what they do. If any of you consider me to be trolling then I'm interpreting that as me getting my message across. Haven't you heard the other nitwits calling for me to be banned from this forum for expressing my opinions? Perfect!

People don't want you banned from the forums because of your opinions. People want you banned because you are unduly insulting and have a penchant for falsely manipulating information.

If you want a challenging debate then you keep coming back to the right place. If all you want is to be able to lick the as5holes of your intellectual inferiors then you go right ahead. The noise in your head can't be wished away.

And btw, you mostly agree with my logic anyway. Boo fukin hoo hoo!

And from what I understand, Wrcriw doesn't agree with you. At least that's what I gathered. IMO, Wrcriw is simply taking a realistic approach to the situation, and has neither condoned nor called out Russia or the US's actions. (US ones completely off topic)

Most of his interaction on the Ukraine forums have been calling out facts and disputing the next move, without being caught up in the past. Which is how we should all debate like.

Arguing from a past perspective is called political incorectness. You should argue using evidence of what we have now, and where this can get us in the future. Making accusations on the United States past is irrelevant, so you really need to stop Monty.
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monty1
Posts: 1,084
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4/17/2014 2:07:01 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/17/2014 1:57:42 PM, Jifpop09 wrote:
At 4/17/2014 1:34:27 PM, wrichcirw wrote:
At 4/17/2014 1:32:19 PM, monty1 wrote:
At 4/17/2014 1:24:05 PM, wrichcirw wrote:
At 4/17/2014 1:00:00 PM, monty1 wrote:
At 4/17/2014 12:47:47 PM, wrichcirw wrote:
At 4/17/2014 12:17:11 PM, monty1 wrote:
At 4/16/2014 8:04:13 PM, wrichcirw wrote:
All countries are like this. The US intervened in Kuwait over something similar, we bombed the crap out of Saddam and wrecked that country...twice.

Japan intervened in China, ostensibly to purge Western influence in their wars.

European nations used similar justification, i.e. the "white man's burden" to conduct genocide globally, i.e. colonization.

Keep going back, and you'll find that every nation that experienced any territorial expansion did things that are similar to what Russia is doing now.

The real question is not whether or not they're ideologically justified...but whether or not anyone can stop them. Run a military calculus and see if anyone can stop Russia without triggering MAD.

There's little doubt that you understand the purpose of propaganda and have fed right into it.

So starting with the invasion of Kuwait, you understand and accept that there had to be a pretext for war with Iraq. And I don't think I need to remind you of all the evidence that points to a setup of Saddam, but if you're not fully versed in that I can. Suffice to say that it's a pretty tough sell to suggest that the two wars against Iraq were not for the same purpose! The second one blew the cover story completely!

And as for a similarity with what Russia is doing now, the Vietnam war fits that foot quite nicely. Were the dominoes falling or were the Vietnamese people attempting to reunify their country for those many years since France's colonial enterprising efforts?

Is the US/Nato attempting to bring the Ukraine into the Nato fold? Could it be that Russia is attempting to prevent that from happening? Or is Russia intent on grabbing Europe? I would suggest that Russia had no choice with the Crimea because something turned a peaceful relationship sour. That's where Russia won a clearcut moral victory and that is difficult to dispute at this late date.

And so we can sit and watch how it proceeds on the ground with the Eastern Ukraine. We'll both attempt to stay immune from the propaganda of both sides.

I'm really quite surprised that you would offer such a simplistic overview of the whole reason wars happen. Or, on the other hand, maybe I have overestimated your capability to understand reality.

I'm going to politely ask that you not respond to anything I write. I have no wish to interact with anyone that I find has been blatantly lying while making arguments.

No, I can't abide by your wishes. You can react to it any way you choose though. I would just say, isn't it ironic that you can accept the lies and false innuendoes of your fellow Americans yet can't accept a countrer lie to stir up their emotions a little. Gee, it had them seething with rage for a full 24 hours!

You're not going to find a sensible and rational challenge to the USBS than you are going to get from me. If you want it to be a mutual as5licking of Americans with their propaganda then fill your boots pal. I'm going to keep reminding you that life isn't all that simple.

And I still think you're just barely smart enough to understand some of the lobical counterspin I've got for you.

I think your habit of making personal attacks and overall just trolling for kicks ensures that few people will want to converse with you.

I really don't care all that much what they do. If any of you consider me to be trolling then I'm interpreting that as me getting my message across. Haven't you heard the other nitwits calling for me to be banned from this forum for expressing my opinions? Perfect!

People don't want you banned from the forums because of your opinions. People want you banned because you are unduly insulting and have a penchant for falsely manipulating information.

If you want a challenging debate then you keep coming back to the right place. If all you want is to be able to lick the as5holes of your intellectual inferiors then you go right ahead. The noise in your head can't be wished away.

And btw, you mostly agree with my logic anyway. Boo fukin hoo hoo!

And from what I understand, Wrcriw doesn't agree with you. At least that's what I gathered. IMO, Wrcriw is simply taking a realistic approach to the situation, and has neither condoned nor called out Russia or the US's actions. (US ones completely off topic)

Most of his interaction on the Ukraine forums have been calling out facts and disputing the next move, without being caught up in the past. Which is how we should all debate like.

Arguing from a past perspective is called political incorectness. You should argue using evidence of what we have now, and where this can get us in the future. Making accusations on the United States past is irrelevant, so you really need to stop Monty.

You have been unable to come any closer to being able to accept that you can't dictate my debating style to suit your whims. If you are ever capable of doing that then I may find some value in paying more attention to you. I don't attempt to dictate to you your debating style and what you will be allowed to say and I expect that you afford me the same luxury.

Until you begin to understand these very basic rules I won't be bothering with you. It's your choice on whether you want me to treat you as a competent debater or just pass you off as a precocious teenager who still thinks the world spins on his concept of life in general. Nuff said!
Jifpop09
Posts: 2,243
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4/17/2014 2:11:16 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/17/2014 2:07:01 PM, monty1 wrote:
At 4/17/2014 1:57:42 PM, Jifpop09 wrote:
At 4/17/2014 1:34:27 PM, wrichcirw wrote:
At 4/17/2014 1:32:19 PM, monty1 wrote:
At 4/17/2014 1:24:05 PM, wrichcirw wrote:
At 4/17/2014 1:00:00 PM, monty1 wrote:
At 4/17/2014 12:47:47 PM, wrichcirw wrote:
At 4/17/2014 12:17:11 PM, monty1 wrote:
At 4/16/2014 8:04:13 PM, wrichcirw wrote:
All countries are like this. The US intervened in Kuwait over something similar, we bombed the crap out of Saddam and wrecked that country...twice.

Japan intervened in China, ostensibly to purge Western influence in their wars.

European nations used similar justification, i.e. the "white man's burden" to conduct genocide globally, i.e. colonization.

Keep going back, and you'll find that every nation that experienced any territorial expansion did things that are similar to what Russia is doing now.

The real question is not whether or not they're ideologically justified...but whether or not anyone can stop them. Run a military calculus and see if anyone can stop Russia without triggering MAD.

There's little doubt that you understand the purpose of propaganda and have fed right into it.

So starting with the invasion of Kuwait, you understand and accept that there had to be a pretext for war with Iraq. And I don't think I need to remind you of all the evidence that points to a setup of Saddam, but if you're not fully versed in that I can. Suffice to say that it's a pretty tough sell to suggest that the two wars against Iraq were not for the same purpose! The second one blew the cover story completely!

And as for a similarity with what Russia is doing now, the Vietnam war fits that foot quite nicely. Were the dominoes falling or were the Vietnamese people attempting to reunify their country for those many years since France's colonial enterprising efforts?

Is the US/Nato attempting to bring the Ukraine into the Nato fold? Could it be that Russia is attempting to prevent that from happening? Or is Russia intent on grabbing Europe? I would suggest that Russia had no choice with the Crimea because something turned a peaceful relationship sour. That's where Russia won a clearcut moral victory and that is difficult to dispute at this late date.

And so we can sit and watch how it proceeds on the ground with the Eastern Ukraine. We'll both attempt to stay immune from the propaganda of both sides.

I'm really quite surprised that you would offer such a simplistic overview of the whole reason wars happen. Or, on the other hand, maybe I have overestimated your capability to understand reality.

I'm going to politely ask that you not respond to anything I write. I have no wish to interact with anyone that I find has been blatantly lying while making arguments.

No, I can't abide by your wishes. You can react to it any way you choose though. I would just say, isn't it ironic that you can accept the lies and false innuendoes of your fellow Americans yet can't accept a countrer lie to stir up their emotions a little. Gee, it had them seething with rage for a full 24 hours!

You're not going to find a sensible and rational challenge to the USBS than you are going to get from me. If you want it to be a mutual as5licking of Americans with their propaganda then fill your boots pal. I'm going to keep reminding you that life isn't all that simple.

And I still think you're just barely smart enough to understand some of the lobical counterspin I've got for you.

I think your habit of making personal attacks and overall just trolling for kicks ensures that few people will want to converse with you.

I really don't care all that much what they do. If any of you consider me to be trolling then I'm interpreting that as me getting my message across. Haven't you heard the other nitwits calling for me to be banned from this forum for expressing my opinions? Perfect!

People don't want you banned from the forums because of your opinions. People want you banned because you are unduly insulting and have a penchant for falsely manipulating information.

If you want a challenging debate then you keep coming back to the right place. If all you want is to be able to lick the as5holes of your intellectual inferiors then you go right ahead. The noise in your head can't be wished away.

And btw, you mostly agree with my logic anyway. Boo fukin hoo hoo!

And from what I understand, Wrcriw doesn't agree with you. At least that's what I gathered. IMO, Wrcriw is simply taking a realistic approach to the situation, and has neither condoned nor called out Russia or the US's actions. (US ones completely off topic)

Most of his interaction on the Ukraine forums have been calling out facts and disputing the next move, without being caught up in the past. Which is how we should all debate like.

Arguing from a past perspective is called political incorectness. You should argue using evidence of what we have now, and where this can get us in the future. Making accusations on the United States past is irrelevant, so you really need to stop Monty.

You have been unable to come any closer to being able to accept that you can't dictate my debating style to suit your whims. If you are ever capable of doing that then I may find some value in paying more attention to you. I don't attempt to dictate to you your debating style and what you will be allowed to say and I expect that you afford me the same luxury.

Until you begin to understand these very basic rules I won't be bothering with you. It's your choice on whether you want me to treat you as a competent debater or just pass you off as a precocious teenager who still thinks the world spins on his concept of life in general. Nuff said!

A compitent debater gives facts, uses political corectness, isn't caught blatantly lying, and most of all, doesn't use ad hominens.

Attacking my arguments by calling me a teenager is a ad hominen.
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monty1
Posts: 1,084
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4/17/2014 2:20:44 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
If you make a point that needs debating then I will be here to destroy it for you. If you keep on demanding that I agree with your dogmatic onesided pro-US nonsensical views then I won't waste time on you. Act your age for a change and you will gain the respect you crave so much from me. I've already wasted far too much time on your silly ideas than I should have. It's interfereing with the possibility of everyone coming to a better understanding of what's really happening in the Ukraine. Otherwise, over and out!
Jifpop09
Posts: 2,243
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4/17/2014 2:29:50 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/17/2014 2:20:44 PM, monty1 wrote:
If you make a point that needs debating then I will be here to destroy it for you. If you keep on demanding that I agree with your dogmatic onesided pro-US nonsensical views then I won't waste time on you. Act your age for a change and you will gain the respect you crave so much from me. I've already wasted far too much time on your silly ideas than I should have. It's interfereing with the possibility of everyone coming to a better understanding of what's really happening in the Ukraine. Otherwise, over and out!

"The majority of people on this site think you are a cheap debater, so I will not engage you. I encourage others to do the same"
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monty1
Posts: 1,084
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4/17/2014 2:39:15 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/17/2014 2:29:50 PM, Jifpop09 wrote:
At 4/17/2014 2:20:44 PM, monty1 wrote:
If you make a point that needs debating then I will be here to destroy it for you. If you keep on demanding that I agree with your dogmatic onesided pro-US nonsensical views then I won't waste time on you. Act your age for a change and you will gain the respect you crave so much from me. I've already wasted far too much time on your silly ideas than I should have. It's interfereing with the possibility of everyone coming to a better understanding of what's really happening in the Ukraine. Otherwise, over and out!

"The majority of people on this site think you are a cheap debater, so I will not engage you. I encourage others to do the same"

Promise? I should be so lucky. I bet you won't be able to keep your word on that and will be back with your silly bullsh!t in less than a week. Bet?
Jifpop09
Posts: 2,243
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4/17/2014 2:40:04 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/17/2014 2:39:15 PM, monty1 wrote:
At 4/17/2014 2:29:50 PM, Jifpop09 wrote:
At 4/17/2014 2:20:44 PM, monty1 wrote:
If you make a point that needs debating then I will be here to destroy it for you. If you keep on demanding that I agree with your dogmatic onesided pro-US nonsensical views then I won't waste time on you. Act your age for a change and you will gain the respect you crave so much from me. I've already wasted far too much time on your silly ideas than I should have. It's interfereing with the possibility of everyone coming to a better understanding of what's really happening in the Ukraine. Otherwise, over and out!

"The majority of people on this site think you are a cheap debater, so I will not engage you. I encourage others to do the same"

Promise? I should be so lucky. I bet you won't be able to keep your word on that and will be back with your silly bullsh!t in less than a week. Bet?

"The majority of people on this site think you are a cheap debater, so I will not engage you. I encourage others to do the same"
Leader of the DDO Revolution Party
monty1
Posts: 1,084
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4/17/2014 2:57:46 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/17/2014 2:40:04 PM, Jifpop09 wrote:
At 4/17/2014 2:39:15 PM, monty1 wrote:
At 4/17/2014 2:29:50 PM, Jifpop09 wrote:
At 4/17/2014 2:20:44 PM, monty1 wrote:
If you make a point that needs debating then I will be here to destroy it for you. If you keep on demanding that I agree with your dogmatic onesided pro-US nonsensical views then I won't waste time on you. Act your age for a change and you will gain the respect you crave so much from me. I've already wasted far too much time on your silly ideas than I should have. It's interfereing with the possibility of everyone coming to a better understanding of what's really happening in the Ukraine. Otherwise, over and out!

"The majority of people on this site think you are a cheap debater, so I will not engage you. I encourage others to do the same"

Promise? I should be so lucky. I bet you won't be able to keep your word on that and will be back with your silly bullsh!t in less than a week. Bet?

"The majority of people on this site think you are a cheap debater, so I will not engage you. I encourage others to do the same"

I wagered you couldn't keep your promise to stop debating me for a week, you lasted less than five minutes! (snicker)
Jifpop09
Posts: 2,243
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4/17/2014 2:58:40 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/17/2014 2:57:46 PM, monty1 wrote:
At 4/17/2014 2:40:04 PM, Jifpop09 wrote:
At 4/17/2014 2:39:15 PM, monty1 wrote:
At 4/17/2014 2:29:50 PM, Jifpop09 wrote:
At 4/17/2014 2:20:44 PM, monty1 wrote:
If you make a point that needs debating then I will be here to destroy it for you. If you keep on demanding that I agree with your dogmatic onesided pro-US nonsensical views then I won't waste time on you. Act your age for a change and you will gain the respect you crave so much from me. I've already wasted far too much time on your silly ideas than I should have. It's interfereing with the possibility of everyone coming to a better understanding of what's really happening in the Ukraine. Otherwise, over and out!

"The majority of people on this site think you are a cheap debater, so I will not engage you. I encourage others to do the same"

Promise? I should be so lucky. I bet you won't be able to keep your word on that and will be back with your silly bullsh!t in less than a week. Bet?

"The majority of people on this site think you are a cheap debater, so I will not engage you. I encourage others to do the same"

I wagered you couldn't keep your promise to stop debating me for a week, you lasted less than five minutes! (snicker)

"The majority of people on this site think you are a cheap debater, so I will not engage you. I encourage others to do the same"
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monty1
Posts: 1,084
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4/17/2014 3:03:05 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/17/2014 2:58:40 PM, Jifpop09 wrote:
At 4/17/2014 2:57:46 PM, monty1 wrote:
At 4/17/2014 2:40:04 PM, Jifpop09 wrote:
At 4/17/2014 2:39:15 PM, monty1 wrote:
At 4/17/2014 2:29:50 PM, Jifpop09 wrote:
At 4/17/2014 2:20:44 PM, monty1 wrote:
If you make a point that needs debating then I will be here to destroy it for you. If you keep on demanding that I agree with your dogmatic onesided pro-US nonsensical views then I won't waste time on you. Act your age for a change and you will gain the respect you crave so much from me. I've already wasted far too much time on your silly ideas than I should have. It's interfereing with the possibility of everyone coming to a better understanding of what's really happening in the Ukraine. Otherwise, over and out!

"The majority of people on this site think you are a cheap debater, so I will not engage you. I encourage others to do the same"

Promise? I should be so lucky. I bet you won't be able to keep your word on that and will be back with your silly bullsh!t in less than a week. Bet?

"The majority of people on this site think you are a cheap debater, so I will not engage you. I encourage others to do the same"

I wagered you couldn't keep your promise to stop debating me for a week, you lasted less than five minutes! (snicker)

"The majority of people on this site think you are a cheap debater, so I will not engage you. I encourage others to do the same"

Right! But what worries me most is that you keep on doing just that! What's a boy to think?
Jifpop09
Posts: 2,243
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4/17/2014 3:03:40 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/17/2014 3:03:05 PM, monty1 wrote:
At 4/17/2014 2:58:40 PM, Jifpop09 wrote:
At 4/17/2014 2:57:46 PM, monty1 wrote:
At 4/17/2014 2:40:04 PM, Jifpop09 wrote:
At 4/17/2014 2:39:15 PM, monty1 wrote:
At 4/17/2014 2:29:50 PM, Jifpop09 wrote:
At 4/17/2014 2:20:44 PM, monty1 wrote:
If you make a point that needs debating then I will be here to destroy it for you. If you keep on demanding that I agree with your dogmatic onesided pro-US nonsensical views then I won't waste time on you. Act your age for a change and you will gain the respect you crave so much from me. I've already wasted far too much time on your silly ideas than I should have. It's interfereing with the possibility of everyone coming to a better understanding of what's really happening in the Ukraine. Otherwise, over and out!

"The majority of people on this site think you are a cheap debater, so I will not engage you. I encourage others to do the same"

Promise? I should be so lucky. I bet you won't be able to keep your word on that and will be back with your silly bullsh!t in less than a week. Bet?

"The majority of people on this site think you are a cheap debater, so I will not engage you. I encourage others to do the same"

I wagered you couldn't keep your promise to stop debating me for a week, you lasted less than five minutes! (snicker)

"The majority of people on this site think you are a cheap debater, so I will not engage you. I encourage others to do the same"

Right! But what worries me most is that you keep on doing just that! What's a boy to think?

"The majority of people on this site think you are a cheap debater, so I will not engage you. I encourage others to do the same"
Leader of the DDO Revolution Party