Total Posts:66|Showing Posts:1-30|Last Page
Jump to topic:

Putin admits defeat

Jifpop09
Posts: 2,243
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/17/2014 4:53:47 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Oh my barrazan, so many things have happened today. As usual, let me begin telling you about them......

Update 1: Organized Attacks by rebels against the military have resulted in the capture of SIX tanks!!!!!! In also had already reported this, but they had also captured a air force base in Kramatorsk, giving them air supremacy in Donetsk. The divison that surrendered the tanks will be tried in military cour't (Give these guys a break)

http://www.bbc.com...

Update 2: After the Geneva meeting, pretty much nothing is agreed upon. Except a minor concession of Russia against pro-russian "militia" build up, but that counts for hardly anything. Any rebels who will surrender will be granted amnesty, but I doubt this will show much results (It did work for south sudan, a shining example for a country that went through this already)

http://www.theguardian.com...

Update 3: Pro-Russians have captured a base, and are holding captive over 60 people inside. Once again, they were accompanied by Russian Soldiers (Yes, I dropped assumed, but I'll explain why later).

http://www.cnn.com...

Update 4: In the city of Donetsk, Jews were ordered to register with the rebel government. They have called it out as a Nazi attack, and why they are making them do this is confusing. The laws involved very strange registrations.

Just throwing this out there, but Russia has been historically one of the worst places for Jews to live. Even after WW2, the Jews had intense persecution laws in play, and some probably still exist today. Most of the resentment started with Catherine the Great, when she removed the Jews to the Pale of Settlement, and even before that Jews were persecuted. To put it shortly, your better off being homosexual then Jewish in Russia.

Update 5: The moment we have all been waiting for!!! Putin, drum roll please.......................................................................... has admitted he was lying about troops in Crimea! Hooray!!!!!

His bogus excuse, was that they were protecting military equipment (Even though the troops were at the Ukranian border, and the masked men attacked Ukrainian bases). Anyways, this excuse is an attempt to give reliant nations an excuse to drop the embargo, which NATO should do everything in its power to prevent this.

Whatever the case, its rare we get a world leader to admit he lied about illegally infiltrating a country after denying it a dozen times. I'm still disappointed that he denies the base attacks though. Hopefully the admission of lying will backfire, as it should.

http://www.washingtonpost.com...

What we know

1. Russia is attacking military and government within Donetsk

2. The attacks are all centered in Donetsk.

3. The pro-russian troops are equipped, trained, and organized on a military scale.

4. Putin has stated he will protect ethnic Russians if it comes to it.

5. The Duma is in support of secession referendums.

Take from this what you will, but this forum should be centered around the future. What is Ukraine's next move. I have little interest in debating the past at this point.
Leader of the DDO Revolution Party
Jifpop09
Posts: 2,243
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/17/2014 5:34:10 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Its also interesting to note the changes under the constitution. Ukraine will become a federation and the language is now Russian. Interesting developments.
Leader of the DDO Revolution Party
Wocambs
Posts: 1,505
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/17/2014 6:24:05 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/17/2014 6:06:14 PM, Jifpop09 wrote:
Sorry, I never sourced update 4. Here's a biased liberal site I sometimes frequent



http://thinkprogress.org...

All the news is biased.
Jifpop09
Posts: 2,243
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/17/2014 6:30:16 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/17/2014 6:24:05 PM, Wocambs wrote:
At 4/17/2014 6:06:14 PM, Jifpop09 wrote:
Sorry, I never sourced update 4. Here's a biased liberal site I sometimes frequent



http://thinkprogress.org...

All the news is biased.

Agreed in most respects, but some is more biased then others. Sometimes I like biased sites though. Its good seeing people arguing in favor of what you want.

The word biased has been slightly taken out of context to always imply derogatory. Not always a bad thing.
Leader of the DDO Revolution Party
Wocambs
Posts: 1,505
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/17/2014 6:33:04 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/17/2014 6:30:16 PM, Jifpop09 wrote:
At 4/17/2014 6:24:05 PM, Wocambs wrote:
At 4/17/2014 6:06:14 PM, Jifpop09 wrote:
Sorry, I never sourced update 4. Here's a biased liberal site I sometimes frequent



http://thinkprogress.org...

All the news is biased.

Agreed in most respects, but some is more biased then others. Sometimes I like biased sites though. Its good seeing people arguing in favor of what you want.

The word biased has been slightly taken out of context to always imply derogatory. Not always a bad thing.

Hah, yeah, I understand now.
Jifpop09
Posts: 2,243
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/17/2014 6:33:29 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/17/2014 6:24:05 PM, Wocambs wrote:
At 4/17/2014 6:06:14 PM, Jifpop09 wrote:
Sorry, I never sourced update 4. Here's a biased liberal site I sometimes frequent



http://thinkprogress.org...

All the news is biased.

Unbiased news actually can exist though. Just....

1) State the facts.

2) Give only other people's/experts opinions.

3) Get your information reliably.

The problem is some people throw the word biased lightly. They say it whenever something/someone provides the facts that disagrees with them, even though they are true.
Leader of the DDO Revolution Party
Wocambs
Posts: 1,505
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/17/2014 6:42:40 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/17/2014 6:33:29 PM, Jifpop09 wrote:
At 4/17/2014 6:24:05 PM, Wocambs wrote:
At 4/17/2014 6:06:14 PM, Jifpop09 wrote:
Sorry, I never sourced update 4. Here's a biased liberal site I sometimes frequent



http://thinkprogress.org...

All the news is biased.

Unbiased news actually can exist though. Just....

1) State the facts.

2) Give only other people's/experts opinions.

3) Get your information reliably.

The problem is some people throw the word biased lightly. They say it whenever something/someone provides the facts that disagrees with them, even though they are true.

I suppose it could, but in the context of the society we live in it's basically impossible . The 'expert' opinion tends to be that of the establishment, and the most 'reliable' source is the establishment. Other sources are simply too costly to establish as 'reliable'. Furthermore, the simple fact that new corporations are large corporations, owned by very wealthy people with very wealthy friends, which are essentially reliant on advertising money creates an almost unavoidable filter on what can be said, as does the issue of time. To challenge the established view takes far more time than to simply repeat it.
Jifpop09
Posts: 2,243
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/17/2014 8:16:09 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/17/2014 8:05:15 PM, Ore_Ele wrote:
Dude?!?

Admitting he lied is not the same as admitting defeat!

I realized that after I posted it believe it or not. I knew someone would eventually call this out, lol. When I wrote that though, I connected admitting lying to defeat.
Leader of the DDO Revolution Party
ararmer1919
Posts: 362
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/17/2014 8:46:36 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Another thing that happened to day was that Russian Parliament approved authorization for military force in eastern Ukraine meaning Putin now has nothing to prevent him from marching those 40,000 troops he has conveniently "training" at the border into the Ukraine. This article also talks about his admittance to Russian troops inside Crimea. EAT THIS D*** MONTY. Lol.

http://www.nytimes.com...

One more thing that is happening. Parts of Ukraine parliament are trying to past legislation to (just as I predicated) transform Ukraine into a nuclear armed nation in order to defend themselves against Russian aggression since it is obvious that international diplomacy is a complete and utter disgrace if a failure. Are we about to face a nuclear arms race the likes of which has not been seen since the passing of the non-proliferation treaty? I would almost guarantee it.
Jifpop09
Posts: 2,243
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/17/2014 8:55:03 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/17/2014 8:46:36 PM, ararmer1919 wrote:
Another thing that happened to day was that Russian Parliament approved authorization for military force in eastern Ukraine meaning Putin now has nothing to prevent him from marching those 40,000 troops he has conveniently "training" at the border into the Ukraine. This article also talks about his admittance to Russian troops inside Crimea. EAT THIS D*** MONTY. Lol.

http://www.nytimes.com...

One more thing that is happening. Parts of Ukraine parliament are trying to past legislation to (just as I predicated) transform Ukraine into a nuclear armed nation in order to defend themselves against Russian aggression since it is obvious that international diplomacy is a complete and utter disgrace if a failure. Are we about to face a nuclear arms race the likes of which has not been seen since the passing of the non-proliferation treaty? I would almost guarantee it.

I don't usually say this, but if Ukraine has any chance at democracy, it needs to accept some western influence. The radical elements in the government will lead it to ruin. Examine parliamentary fist fight, apparently this has happened before though (Damn Eastern Europeans). I think a revised version of the Ukraine Support Act might be a good start.
Leader of the DDO Revolution Party
ararmer1919
Posts: 362
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/18/2014 12:05:06 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/17/2014 8:55:03 PM, Jifpop09 wrote:
At 4/17/2014 8:46:36 PM, ararmer1919 wrote:
Another thing that happened to day was that Russian Parliament approved authorization for military force in eastern Ukraine meaning Putin now has nothing to prevent him from marching those 40,000 troops he has conveniently "training" at the border into the Ukraine. This article also talks about his admittance to Russian troops inside Crimea. EAT THIS D*** MONTY. Lol.

http://www.nytimes.com...

One more thing that is happening. Parts of Ukraine parliament are trying to past legislation to (just as I predicated) transform Ukraine into a nuclear armed nation in order to defend themselves against Russian aggression since it is obvious that international diplomacy is a complete and utter disgrace if a failure. Are we about to face a nuclear arms race the likes of which has not been seen since the passing of the non-proliferation treaty? I would almost guarantee it.

I don't usually say this, but if Ukraine has any chance at democracy, it needs to accept some western influence. The radical elements in the government will lead it to ruin. Examine parliamentary fist fight, apparently this has happened before though (Damn Eastern Europeans). I think a revised version of the Ukraine Support Act might be a good start.

You know, maybe I'm just being naive, but I just really don't want to believe that it requires western influence in order to establish a strong democracy.







Jifpop09
Posts: 2,243
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/18/2014 4:43:52 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/18/2014 12:05:06 AM, ararmer1919 wrote:
At 4/17/2014 8:55:03 PM, Jifpop09 wrote:
At 4/17/2014 8:46:36 PM, ararmer1919 wrote:
Another thing that happened to day was that Russian Parliament approved authorization for military force in eastern Ukraine meaning Putin now has nothing to prevent him from marching those 40,000 troops he has conveniently "training" at the border into the Ukraine. This article also talks about his admittance to Russian troops inside Crimea. EAT THIS D*** MONTY. Lol.

http://www.nytimes.com...

One more thing that is happening. Parts of Ukraine parliament are trying to past legislation to (just as I predicated) transform Ukraine into a nuclear armed nation in order to defend themselves against Russian aggression since it is obvious that international diplomacy is a complete and utter disgrace if a failure. Are we about to face a nuclear arms race the likes of which has not been seen since the passing of the non-proliferation treaty? I would almost guarantee it.

I don't usually say this, but if Ukraine has any chance at democracy, it needs to accept some western influence. The radical elements in the government will lead it to ruin. Examine parliamentary fist fight, apparently this has happened before though (Damn Eastern Europeans). I think a revised version of the Ukraine Support Act might be a good start.

You know, maybe I'm just being naive, but I just really don't want to believe that it requires western influence in order to establish a strong democracy.

I'm not saying that either, but in Ukraine's situation, it will collapse if it doesn't take the protection of other countries. We have seen this time and time again,. You can tend to notice that countries that attract western political and economic interests fare better then the rest. Good example: Asia vs. Africa/ Central America vs. South America.

There's a reason Africa and South America don't enter the news, and its because the west isn't linked to them the same way we are with other countries. Anyways, I'm simply trying to show the realism of this. You accept a sphere of influence or you face poverty and unrest.

Ukraine has long been divided between the European sphere and the Russian one, and the full force of this split is being seen within the country. Why do you think South Sudan didn't get the same spotlight, even though the war for independence is identical to what were seeing now? Because South Sudan was not in anyone' sphere. On a unrelated note, I think I'm going to make a forum about the military tactics used by the SPLA to literally disarm 75% of the rebels within the country.







Leader of the DDO Revolution Party
wrichcirw
Posts: 11,196
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/18/2014 4:50:44 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/17/2014 6:33:29 PM, Jifpop09 wrote:
At 4/17/2014 6:24:05 PM, Wocambs wrote:
At 4/17/2014 6:06:14 PM, Jifpop09 wrote:
Sorry, I never sourced update 4. Here's a biased liberal site I sometimes frequent



http://thinkprogress.org...

All the news is biased.

Unbiased news actually can exist though. Just....

1) State the facts.

2) Give only other people's/experts opinions.

3) Get your information reliably.

All of this can easily still entail massive bias. You can state the facts and expert opinions you want to state reliably, while omitting any facts and expert opinions that run counter to your bias.

The problem is some people throw the word biased lightly. They say it whenever something/someone provides the facts that disagrees with them, even though they are true.
At 8/9/2013 9:41:24 AM, wrichcirw wrote:
If you are civil with me, I will be civil to you. If you decide to bring unreasonable animosity to bear in a reasonable discussion, then what would you expect other than to get flustered?
wrichcirw
Posts: 11,196
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/18/2014 4:52:33 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/17/2014 6:30:16 PM, Jifpop09 wrote:
At 4/17/2014 6:24:05 PM, Wocambs wrote:
At 4/17/2014 6:06:14 PM, Jifpop09 wrote:
Sorry, I never sourced update 4. Here's a biased liberal site I sometimes frequent



http://thinkprogress.org...

All the news is biased.

Agreed in most respects, but some is more biased then others. Sometimes I like biased sites though. Its good seeing people arguing in favor of what you want.

Perhaps this is a personality trait, but whenever I see someone or something arguing for exactly my own position, I get nervous and wonder whether or not they are pandering to me for whatever reason.

I like getting dissenting opinions (as long as they are accurate), as that typically is how I learn...by accepting a valid opinion/viewpoint that runs contrary to my own.

The word biased has been slightly taken out of context to always imply derogatory. Not always a bad thing.
At 8/9/2013 9:41:24 AM, wrichcirw wrote:
If you are civil with me, I will be civil to you. If you decide to bring unreasonable animosity to bear in a reasonable discussion, then what would you expect other than to get flustered?
Jifpop09
Posts: 2,243
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/18/2014 4:52:37 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/18/2014 4:50:44 AM, wrichcirw wrote:
At 4/17/2014 6:33:29 PM, Jifpop09 wrote:
At 4/17/2014 6:24:05 PM, Wocambs wrote:
At 4/17/2014 6:06:14 PM, Jifpop09 wrote:
Sorry, I never sourced update 4. Here's a biased liberal site I sometimes frequent



http://thinkprogress.org...

All the news is biased.

Unbiased news actually can exist though. Just....

1) State the facts.

2) Give only other people's/experts opinions.

3) Get your information reliably.

All of this can easily still entail massive bias. You can state the facts and expert opinions you want to state reliably, while omitting any facts and expert opinions that run counter to your bias.

The problem is some people throw the word biased lightly. They say it whenever something/someone provides the facts that disagrees with them, even though they are true.

Wocambs actually just pointed that out, and I can agree with him, as I see this a lot on FOX.. Oh well, we have to trust people to show integrity, and its usually evident.
Leader of the DDO Revolution Party
wrichcirw
Posts: 11,196
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/18/2014 4:55:47 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/18/2014 4:52:37 AM, Jifpop09 wrote:
At 4/18/2014 4:50:44 AM, wrichcirw wrote:
At 4/17/2014 6:33:29 PM, Jifpop09 wrote:
At 4/17/2014 6:24:05 PM, Wocambs wrote:
At 4/17/2014 6:06:14 PM, Jifpop09 wrote:
Sorry, I never sourced update 4. Here's a biased liberal site I sometimes frequent



http://thinkprogress.org...

All the news is biased.

Unbiased news actually can exist though. Just....

1) State the facts.

2) Give only other people's/experts opinions.

3) Get your information reliably.

All of this can easily still entail massive bias. You can state the facts and expert opinions you want to state reliably, while omitting any facts and expert opinions that run counter to your bias.

The problem is some people throw the word biased lightly. They say it whenever something/someone provides the facts that disagrees with them, even though they are true.

Wocambs actually just pointed that out, and I can agree with him, as I see this a lot on FOX.. Oh well, we have to trust people to show integrity, and its usually evident.

Well, his point was somewhat different. His point entailed the difficulty in reporting facts and gathering expert opinions. My point was that even when such factors are overcome, you will still get something that is massively biased.
At 8/9/2013 9:41:24 AM, wrichcirw wrote:
If you are civil with me, I will be civil to you. If you decide to bring unreasonable animosity to bear in a reasonable discussion, then what would you expect other than to get flustered?
wrichcirw
Posts: 11,196
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/18/2014 4:58:25 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/18/2014 12:05:06 AM, ararmer1919 wrote:
At 4/17/2014 8:55:03 PM, Jifpop09 wrote:
At 4/17/2014 8:46:36 PM, ararmer1919 wrote:
Another thing that happened to day was that Russian Parliament approved authorization for military force in eastern Ukraine meaning Putin now has nothing to prevent him from marching those 40,000 troops he has conveniently "training" at the border into the Ukraine. This article also talks about his admittance to Russian troops inside Crimea. EAT THIS D*** MONTY. Lol.

http://www.nytimes.com...

One more thing that is happening. Parts of Ukraine parliament are trying to past legislation to (just as I predicated) transform Ukraine into a nuclear armed nation in order to defend themselves against Russian aggression since it is obvious that international diplomacy is a complete and utter disgrace if a failure. Are we about to face a nuclear arms race the likes of which has not been seen since the passing of the non-proliferation treaty? I would almost guarantee it.

I don't usually say this, but if Ukraine has any chance at democracy, it needs to accept some western influence. The radical elements in the government will lead it to ruin. Examine parliamentary fist fight, apparently this has happened before though (Damn Eastern Europeans). I think a revised version of the Ukraine Support Act might be a good start.

You know, maybe I'm just being naive, but I just really don't want to believe that it requires western influence in order to establish a strong democracy.

IMHO I think it is naive to believe otherwise. =)
At 8/9/2013 9:41:24 AM, wrichcirw wrote:
If you are civil with me, I will be civil to you. If you decide to bring unreasonable animosity to bear in a reasonable discussion, then what would you expect other than to get flustered?
Jifpop09
Posts: 2,243
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/18/2014 5:00:08 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/18/2014 4:52:33 AM, wrichcirw wrote:
At 4/17/2014 6:30:16 PM, Jifpop09 wrote:
At 4/17/2014 6:24:05 PM, Wocambs wrote:
At 4/17/2014 6:06:14 PM, Jifpop09 wrote:
Sorry, I never sourced update 4. Here's a biased liberal site I sometimes frequent



http://thinkprogress.org...

All the news is biased.

Agreed in most respects, but some is more biased then others. Sometimes I like biased sites though. Its good seeing people arguing in favor of what you want.

Perhaps this is a personality trait, but whenever I see someone or something arguing for exactly my own position, I get nervous and wonder whether or not they are pandering to me for whatever reason.

I like getting dissenting opinions (as long as they are accurate), as that typically is how I learn...by accepting a valid opinion/viewpoint that runs contrary to my own.

I'm mostly unaffected by bias IMO. I never want to be the brainwashed one, so most of my idle free time is spent in contemplation of my beliefs. I also watch a degree of conservative news, but usually just to make me laugh, not saying I don't get new views on something. Living in Michigan doesn't help either. We were once America's largest battle ground state, and we still have somewhat vicious fighting between PP's.

I honestly hope I don't become someone else's puppet like we see with culture and political ties. Why do you think people in the south become republicans? Arabs become Muslims? I think you get the point, but its because these people conform and subjugate themselves to society and what they do, and show little motivation for free thought (against their beliefs)


The word biased has been slightly taken out of context to always imply derogatory. Not always a bad thing.
Leader of the DDO Revolution Party
wrichcirw
Posts: 11,196
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/18/2014 5:03:25 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/18/2014 5:00:08 AM, Jifpop09 wrote:
At 4/18/2014 4:52:33 AM, wrichcirw wrote:
At 4/17/2014 6:30:16 PM, Jifpop09 wrote:
At 4/17/2014 6:24:05 PM, Wocambs wrote:
At 4/17/2014 6:06:14 PM, Jifpop09 wrote:
Sorry, I never sourced update 4. Here's a biased liberal site I sometimes frequent



http://thinkprogress.org...

All the news is biased.

Agreed in most respects, but some is more biased then others. Sometimes I like biased sites though. Its good seeing people arguing in favor of what you want.

Perhaps this is a personality trait, but whenever I see someone or something arguing for exactly my own position, I get nervous and wonder whether or not they are pandering to me for whatever reason.

I like getting dissenting opinions (as long as they are accurate), as that typically is how I learn...by accepting a valid opinion/viewpoint that runs contrary to my own.

I'm mostly unaffected by bias IMO. I never want to be the brainwashed one, so most of my idle free time is spent in contemplation of my beliefs. I also watch a degree of conservative news, but usually just to make me laugh, not saying I don't get new views on something. Living in Michigan doesn't help either. We were once America's largest battle ground state, and we still have somewhat vicious fighting between PP's.

I honestly hope I don't become someone else's puppet like we see with culture and political ties. Why do you think people in the south become republicans? Arabs become Muslims? I think you get the point, but its because these people conform and subjugate themselves to society and what they do, and show little motivation for free thought (against their beliefs)

It's funny how you mention why people in the South become Republicans and etc. They do so precisely because they also think that "Its good seeing people arguing in favor of what you want."

The word biased has been slightly taken out of context to always imply derogatory. Not always a bad thing.
At 8/9/2013 9:41:24 AM, wrichcirw wrote:
If you are civil with me, I will be civil to you. If you decide to bring unreasonable animosity to bear in a reasonable discussion, then what would you expect other than to get flustered?
Jifpop09
Posts: 2,243
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/18/2014 5:04:13 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/18/2014 4:43:52 AM, Jifpop09 wrote:
At 4/18/2014 12:05:06 AM, ararmer1919 wrote:
At 4/17/2014 8:55:03 PM, Jifpop09 wrote:
At 4/17/2014 8:46:36 PM, ararmer1919 wrote:
Another thing that happened to day was that Russian Parliament approved authorization for military force in eastern Ukraine meaning Putin now has nothing to prevent him from marching those 40,000 troops he has conveniently "training" at the border into the Ukraine. This article also talks about his admittance to Russian troops inside Crimea. EAT THIS D*** MONTY. Lol.

http://www.nytimes.com...

One more thing that is happening. Parts of Ukraine parliament are trying to past legislation to (just as I predicated) transform Ukraine into a nuclear armed nation in order to defend themselves against Russian aggression since it is obvious that international diplomacy is a complete and utter disgrace if a failure. Are we about to face a nuclear arms race the likes of which has not been seen since the passing of the non-proliferation treaty? I would almost guarantee it.

I don't usually say this, but if Ukraine has any chance at democracy, it needs to accept some western influence. The radical elements in the government will lead it to ruin. Examine parliamentary fist fight, apparently this has happened before though (Damn Eastern Europeans). I think a revised version of the Ukraine Support Act might be a good start.

You know, maybe I'm just being naive, but I just really don't want to believe that it requires western influence in order to establish a strong democracy.

I'm not saying that either, but in Ukraine's situation, it will collapse if it doesn't take the protection of other countries. We have seen this time and time again,. You can tend to notice that countries that attract western political and economic interests fare better then the rest. Good example: Asia vs. Africa/ Central America vs. South America.

There's a reason Africa and South America don't enter the news, and its because the west isn't linked to them the same way we are with other countries. Anyways, I'm simply trying to show the realism of this. You accept a sphere of influence or you face poverty and unrest.

Ukraine has long been divided between the European sphere and the Russian one, and the full force of this split is being seen within the country. Why do you think South Sudan didn't get the same spotlight, even though the war for independence is identical to what were seeing now? Because South Sudan was not in anyone' sphere. On a unrelated note, I think I'm going to make a forum about the military tactics used by the SPLA to literally disarm 75% of the rebels within the country.

In addition, countries in Africa will never be successful unless they show a degree of reliance to the west or east (China). I'm not saying that they have to become puppet states, but they need to accept some dependency.







Leader of the DDO Revolution Party
Jifpop09
Posts: 2,243
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/18/2014 5:06:37 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/18/2014 5:03:25 AM, wrichcirw wrote:
At 4/18/2014 5:00:08 AM, Jifpop09 wrote:
At 4/18/2014 4:52:33 AM, wrichcirw wrote:
At 4/17/2014 6:30:16 PM, Jifpop09 wrote:
At 4/17/2014 6:24:05 PM, Wocambs wrote:
At 4/17/2014 6:06:14 PM, Jifpop09 wrote:
Sorry, I never sourced update 4. Here's a biased liberal site I sometimes frequent



http://thinkprogress.org...

All the news is biased.

Agreed in most respects, but some is more biased then others. Sometimes I like biased sites though. Its good seeing people arguing in favor of what you want.

Perhaps this is a personality trait, but whenever I see someone or something arguing for exactly my own position, I get nervous and wonder whether or not they are pandering to me for whatever reason.

I like getting dissenting opinions (as long as they are accurate), as that typically is how I learn...by accepting a valid opinion/viewpoint that runs contrary to my own.

I'm mostly unaffected by bias IMO. I never want to be the brainwashed one, so most of my idle free time is spent in contemplation of my beliefs. I also watch a degree of conservative news, but usually just to make me laugh, not saying I don't get new views on something. Living in Michigan doesn't help either. We were once America's largest battle ground state, and we still have somewhat vicious fighting between PP's.

I honestly hope I don't become someone else's puppet like we see with culture and political ties. Why do you think people in the south become republicans? Arabs become Muslims? I think you get the point, but its because these people conform and subjugate themselves to society and what they do, and show little motivation for free thought (against their beliefs)

It's funny how you mention why people in the South become Republicans and etc. They do so precisely because they also think that "Its good seeing people arguing in favor of what you want."

Huh? Can you clarify? My point was that people conform to the society formed around them. I didn't doubt you on the danger of falling susceptible to biased news, but some people can show a good degree of free thought and independent thinking.

The word biased has been slightly taken out of context to always imply derogatory. Not always a bad thing.
Leader of the DDO Revolution Party
Jifpop09
Posts: 2,243
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/18/2014 5:08:22 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/17/2014 4:53:47 PM, Jifpop09 wrote:
Oh my barrazan, so many things have happened today. As usual, let me begin telling you about them......

Update 1: Organized Attacks by rebels against the military have resulted in the capture of SIX tanks!!!!!! In also had already reported this, but they had also captured a air force base in Kramatorsk, giving them air supremacy in Donetsk. The divison that surrendered the tanks will be tried in military cour't (Give these guys a break)

http://www.bbc.com...

Update 2: After the Geneva meeting, pretty much nothing is agreed upon. Except a minor concession of Russia against pro-russian "militia" build up, but that counts for hardly anything. Any rebels who will surrender will be granted amnesty, but I doubt this will show much results (It did work for south sudan, a shining example for a country that went through this already)

http://www.theguardian.com...

Update 3: Pro-Russians have captured a base, and are holding captive over 60 people inside. Once again, they were accompanied by Russian Soldiers (Yes, I dropped assumed, but I'll explain why later).

http://www.cnn.com...

Update 4: In the city of Donetsk, Jews were ordered to register with the rebel government. They have called it out as a Nazi attack, and why they are making them do this is confusing. The laws involved very strange registrations.

Just throwing this out there, but Russia has been historically one of the worst places for Jews to live. Even after WW2, the Jews had intense persecution laws in play, and some probably still exist today. Most of the resentment started with Catherine the Great, when she removed the Jews to the Pale of Settlement, and even before that Jews were persecuted. To put it shortly, your better off being homosexual then Jewish in Russia.

Update 5: The moment we have all been waiting for!!! Putin, drum roll please.......................................................................... has admitted he was lying about troops in Crimea! Hooray!!!!!

His bogus excuse, was that they were protecting military equipment (Even though the troops were at the Ukranian border, and the masked men attacked Ukrainian bases). Anyways, this excuse is an attempt to give reliant nations an excuse to drop the embargo, which NATO should do everything in its power to prevent this.

Whatever the case, its rare we get a world leader to admit he lied about illegally infiltrating a country after denying it a dozen times. I'm still disappointed that he denies the base attacks though. Hopefully the admission of lying will backfire, as it should.

http://www.washingtonpost.com...

What we know

1. Russia is attacking military and government within Donetsk

2. The attacks are all centered in Donetsk.

3. The pro-russian troops are equipped, trained, and organized on a military scale.

4. Putin has stated he will protect ethnic Russians if it comes to it.

5. The Duma is in support of secession referendums.

Take from this what you will, but this forum should be centered around the future. What is Ukraine's next move. I have little interest in debating the past at this point.
Leader of the DDO Revolution Party
wrichcirw
Posts: 11,196
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/18/2014 5:08:25 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/18/2014 5:06:37 AM, Jifpop09 wrote:
At 4/18/2014 5:03:25 AM, wrichcirw wrote:
At 4/18/2014 5:00:08 AM, Jifpop09 wrote:
At 4/18/2014 4:52:33 AM, wrichcirw wrote:
At 4/17/2014 6:30:16 PM, Jifpop09 wrote:
At 4/17/2014 6:24:05 PM, Wocambs wrote:
At 4/17/2014 6:06:14 PM, Jifpop09 wrote:
Sorry, I never sourced update 4. Here's a biased liberal site I sometimes frequent



http://thinkprogress.org...

All the news is biased.

Agreed in most respects, but some is more biased then others. Sometimes I like biased sites though. Its good seeing people arguing in favor of what you want.

Perhaps this is a personality trait, but whenever I see someone or something arguing for exactly my own position, I get nervous and wonder whether or not they are pandering to me for whatever reason.

I like getting dissenting opinions (as long as they are accurate), as that typically is how I learn...by accepting a valid opinion/viewpoint that runs contrary to my own.

I'm mostly unaffected by bias IMO. I never want to be the brainwashed one, so most of my idle free time is spent in contemplation of my beliefs. I also watch a degree of conservative news, but usually just to make me laugh, not saying I don't get new views on something. Living in Michigan doesn't help either. We were once America's largest battle ground state, and we still have somewhat vicious fighting between PP's.

I honestly hope I don't become someone else's puppet like we see with culture and political ties. Why do you think people in the south become republicans? Arabs become Muslims? I think you get the point, but its because these people conform and subjugate themselves to society and what they do, and show little motivation for free thought (against their beliefs)

It's funny how you mention why people in the South become Republicans and etc. They do so precisely because they also think that "Its good seeing people arguing in favor of what you want."

Huh? Can you clarify? My point was that people conform to the society formed around them. I didn't doubt you on the danger of falling susceptible to biased news, but some people can show a good degree of free thought and independent thinking.

People in the South are not "coerced" into believing what they believe. If they are, they are "coerced" in the same manner as "liberals" are. Here is a picture perfect example of "coercive" liberal brainwashing:

http://www.debate.org...

The word biased has been slightly taken out of context to always imply derogatory. Not always a bad thing.
At 8/9/2013 9:41:24 AM, wrichcirw wrote:
If you are civil with me, I will be civil to you. If you decide to bring unreasonable animosity to bear in a reasonable discussion, then what would you expect other than to get flustered?
Jifpop09
Posts: 2,243
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/18/2014 5:16:42 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/18/2014 5:08:25 AM, wrichcirw wrote:
At 4/18/2014 5:06:37 AM, Jifpop09 wrote:
At 4/18/2014 5:03:25 AM, wrichcirw wrote:
At 4/18/2014 5:00:08 AM, Jifpop09 wrote:
At 4/18/2014 4:52:33 AM, wrichcirw wrote:
At 4/17/2014 6:30:16 PM, Jifpop09 wrote:
At 4/17/2014 6:24:05 PM, Wocambs wrote:
At 4/17/2014 6:06:14 PM, Jifpop09 wrote:
Sorry, I never sourced update 4. Here's a biased liberal site I sometimes frequent



http://thinkprogress.org...

All the news is biased.

Agreed in most respects, but some is more biased then others. Sometimes I like biased sites though. Its good seeing people arguing in favor of what you want.

Perhaps this is a personality trait, but whenever I see someone or something arguing for exactly my own position, I get nervous and wonder whether or not they are pandering to me for whatever reason.

I like getting dissenting opinions (as long as they are accurate), as that typically is how I learn...by accepting a valid opinion/viewpoint that runs contrary to my own.

I'm mostly unaffected by bias IMO. I never want to be the brainwashed one, so most of my idle free time is spent in contemplation of my beliefs. I also watch a degree of conservative news, but usually just to make me laugh, not saying I don't get new views on something. Living in Michigan doesn't help either. We were once America's largest battle ground state, and we still have somewhat vicious fighting between PP's.

I honestly hope I don't become someone else's puppet like we see with culture and political ties. Why do you think people in the south become republicans? Arabs become Muslims? I think you get the point, but its because these people conform and subjugate themselves to society and what they do, and show little motivation for free thought (against their beliefs)

It's funny how you mention why people in the South become Republicans and etc. They do so precisely because they also think that "Its good seeing people arguing in favor of what you want."

Huh? Can you clarify? My point was that people conform to the society formed around them. I didn't doubt you on the danger of falling susceptible to biased news, but some people can show a good degree of free thought and independent thinking.

People in the South are not "coerced" into believing what they believe. If they are, they are "coerced" in the same manner as "liberals" are. Here is a picture perfect example of "coercive" liberal brainwashing:

http://www.debate.org...

Sorry, but this is absolutely stupid....

"Us Murican conservatives are free thinkers, unlike ya'll liberals"

This is a blatant generalization about at least 2 billion people. Even in the US, your still generalizing a crowd much larger then you and me. No organized liberal propaganda movement is happening, just as no organized conservative propaganda is going on. This is another cheap debate tactic I read about recently.

You know what the question was, and it had nothing to do with liberals or conservatives. It had to do with people conforming to society. People try to mimic the people around them, and that's why the north east is liberal and the southeast is conservative. No one said coerced, but conformity. Are you saying people don't try to conform with the culture, people, and government around them? IMO, people only feel safe when they're fitting in.

The word biased has been slightly taken out of context to always imply derogatory. Not always a bad thing.
Leader of the DDO Revolution Party
wrichcirw
Posts: 11,196
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/18/2014 5:21:23 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/18/2014 5:16:42 AM, Jifpop09 wrote:
At 4/18/2014 5:08:25 AM, wrichcirw wrote:
At 4/18/2014 5:06:37 AM, Jifpop09 wrote:
At 4/18/2014 5:03:25 AM, wrichcirw wrote:
At 4/18/2014 5:00:08 AM, Jifpop09 wrote:
At 4/18/2014 4:52:33 AM, wrichcirw wrote:
At 4/17/2014 6:30:16 PM, Jifpop09 wrote:
At 4/17/2014 6:24:05 PM, Wocambs wrote:
At 4/17/2014 6:06:14 PM, Jifpop09 wrote:
Sorry, I never sourced update 4. Here's a biased liberal site I sometimes frequent



http://thinkprogress.org...

All the news is biased.

Agreed in most respects, but some is more biased then others. Sometimes I like biased sites though. Its good seeing people arguing in favor of what you want.

Perhaps this is a personality trait, but whenever I see someone or something arguing for exactly my own position, I get nervous and wonder whether or not they are pandering to me for whatever reason.

I like getting dissenting opinions (as long as they are accurate), as that typically is how I learn...by accepting a valid opinion/viewpoint that runs contrary to my own.

I'm mostly unaffected by bias IMO. I never want to be the brainwashed one, so most of my idle free time is spent in contemplation of my beliefs. I also watch a degree of conservative news, but usually just to make me laugh, not saying I don't get new views on something. Living in Michigan doesn't help either. We were once America's largest battle ground state, and we still have somewhat vicious fighting between PP's.

I honestly hope I don't become someone else's puppet like we see with culture and political ties. Why do you think people in the south become republicans? Arabs become Muslims? I think you get the point, but its because these people conform and subjugate themselves to society and what they do, and show little motivation for free thought (against their beliefs)

It's funny how you mention why people in the South become Republicans and etc. They do so precisely because they also think that "Its good seeing people arguing in favor of what you want."

Huh? Can you clarify? My point was that people conform to the society formed around them. I didn't doubt you on the danger of falling susceptible to biased news, but some people can show a good degree of free thought and independent thinking.

People in the South are not "coerced" into believing what they believe. If they are, they are "coerced" in the same manner as "liberals" are. Here is a picture perfect example of "coercive" liberal brainwashing:

http://www.debate.org...

Sorry, but this is absolutely stupid....

"Us Murican conservatives are free thinkers, unlike ya'll liberals"

This is a blatant generalization about at least 2 billion people. Even in the US, your still generalizing a crowd much larger then you and me. No organized liberal propaganda movement is happening, just as no organized conservative propaganda is going on. This is another cheap debate tactic I read about recently.

You know what the question was, and it had nothing to do with liberals or conservatives. It had to do with people conforming to society. People try to mimic the people around them, and that's why the north east is liberal and the southeast is conservative. No one said coerced, but conformity. Are you saying people don't try to conform with the culture, people, and government around them? IMO, people only feel safe when they're fitting in.

All I'm doing is reflecting your stupidity right back at you.

Sorry, but this is absolutely stupid....

"Us Murican [liberals] are free thinkers, unlike ya'll [conservatives]"

This is a blatant generalization about at least 2 billion people. Even in the US, your still generalizing a crowd much larger then you and me. No organized [conservative] propaganda movement is happening, just as no organized [liberal] propaganda is going on. This is another cheap debate tactic I read about recently.

You know what the question was, and it had nothing to do with liberals or conservatives. It had to do with people conforming to society.

And liberals do it just as much as conservatives, as evidenced by the resignation of the Mozilla CEO.

No one said coerced, but conformity.

Please tell me with a straight face that the Mozilla CEO did not feel coerced to resign.

The word biased has been slightly taken out of context to always imply derogatory. Not always a bad thing.
At 8/9/2013 9:41:24 AM, wrichcirw wrote:
If you are civil with me, I will be civil to you. If you decide to bring unreasonable animosity to bear in a reasonable discussion, then what would you expect other than to get flustered?
wrichcirw
Posts: 11,196
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/18/2014 5:25:37 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/18/2014 5:16:42 AM, Jifpop09 wrote:
At 4/18/2014 5:08:25 AM, wrichcirw wrote:

No one said coerced, but conformity.

Just to isolate this point, peer-pressure is the most ubiquitous form of coercion. It's exactly what the First Amendment attempts to ameliorate. The majority does not need the protection...the minority does.
At 8/9/2013 9:41:24 AM, wrichcirw wrote:
If you are civil with me, I will be civil to you. If you decide to bring unreasonable animosity to bear in a reasonable discussion, then what would you expect other than to get flustered?
Jifpop09
Posts: 2,243
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/18/2014 5:27:04 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/18/2014 5:21:23 AM, wrichcirw wrote:
At 4/18/2014 5:16:42 AM, Jifpop09 wrote:
At 4/18/2014 5:08:25 AM, wrichcirw wrote:
At 4/18/2014 5:06:37 AM, Jifpop09 wrote:
At 4/18/2014 5:03:25 AM, wrichcirw wrote:
At 4/18/2014 5:00:08 AM, Jifpop09 wrote:
At 4/18/2014 4:52:33 AM, wrichcirw wrote:
At 4/17/2014 6:30:16 PM, Jifpop09 wrote:
At 4/17/2014 6:24:05 PM, Wocambs wrote:
At 4/17/2014 6:06:14 PM, Jifpop09 wrote:
Sorry, I never sourced update 4. Here's a biased liberal site I sometimes frequent



http://thinkprogress.org...

All the news is biased.

Agreed in most respects, but some is more biased then others. Sometimes I like biased sites though. Its good seeing people arguing in favor of what you want.

Perhaps this is a personality trait, but whenever I see someone or something arguing for exactly my own position, I get nervous and wonder whether or not they are pandering to me for whatever reason.

I like getting dissenting opinions (as long as they are accurate), as that typically is how I learn...by accepting a valid opinion/viewpoint that runs contrary to my own.

I'm mostly unaffected by bias IMO. I never want to be the brainwashed one, so most of my idle free time is spent in contemplation of my beliefs. I also watch a degree of conservative news, but usually just to make me laugh, not saying I don't get new views on something. Living in Michigan doesn't help either. We were once America's largest battle ground state, and we still have somewhat vicious fighting between PP's.

I honestly hope I don't become someone else's puppet like we see with culture and political ties. Why do you think people in the south become republicans? Arabs become Muslims? I think you get the point, but its because these people conform and subjugate themselves to society and what they do, and show little motivation for free thought (against their beliefs)

It's funny how you mention why people in the South become Republicans and etc. They do so precisely because they also think that "Its good seeing people arguing in favor of what you want."

Huh? Can you clarify? My point was that people conform to the society formed around them. I didn't doubt you on the danger of falling susceptible to biased news, but some people can show a good degree of free thought and independent thinking.

People in the South are not "coerced" into believing what they believe. If they are, they are "coerced" in the same manner as "liberals" are. Here is a picture perfect example of "coercive" liberal brainwashing:

http://www.debate.org...

Sorry, but this is absolutely stupid....

"Us Murican conservatives are free thinkers, unlike ya'll liberals"

This is a blatant generalization about at least 2 billion people. Even in the US, your still generalizing a crowd much larger then you and me. No organized liberal propaganda movement is happening, just as no organized conservative propaganda is going on. This is another cheap debate tactic I read about recently.

You know what the question was, and it had nothing to do with liberals or conservatives. It had to do with people conforming to society. People try to mimic the people around them, and that's why the north east is liberal and the southeast is conservative. No one said coerced, but conformity. Are you saying people don't try to conform with the culture, people, and government around them? IMO, people only feel safe when they're fitting in.

All I'm doing is reflecting your stupidity right back at you.

No, you didn't. I lost a degree of respect for you for making such a stupid generalization, being biased in favor of conservatism without giving FACTS, getting way off topic off what I said.

Sorry, but this is absolutely stupid....

"Us Murican [liberals] are free thinkers, unlike ya'll [conservatives]"

This is a blatant generalization about at least 2 billion people. Even in the US, your still generalizing a crowd much larger then you and me. No organized [conservative] propaganda movement is happening, just as no organized [liberal] propaganda is going on. This is another cheap debate tactic I read about recently.

You know what the question was, and it had nothing to do with liberals or conservatives. It had to do with people conforming to society.

And liberals do it just as much as conservatives, as evidenced by the resignation of the Mozilla CEO.

No one said coerced, but conformity.

Please tell me with a straight face that the Mozilla CEO did not feel coerced to resign.

Coerced isn't the right word, and who said I thought it was ok for them to do that? The problem is, that Mozzila is not liberal propaganda, it does not support your blatant generalization that"liberals are brainwashed, but conservatives aren't", and this isn't even related to my resolution on conformity.

The word biased has been slightly taken out of context to always imply derogatory. Not always a bad thing.
Leader of the DDO Revolution Party