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Israel to control terrorist settlements?

slo1
Posts: 4,362
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4/22/2014 8:05:40 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
This is very encouraging to see. I have heard reports of the Army standing watching while Jews from this West Bank settlement destroy neighboring Palestinian property.

http://www.nytimes.com...

JERUSALEM " The Israeli military on Friday took over a seminary known for extremism in the Jewish settlement of Yitzhar in the West Bank, moving in a company of border police troops after radical settlers clashed with soldiers and destroyed army property there over the last week.

The extraordinary move came after a public outcry over the attacks on the army, and suggested the beginnings of a showdown between the Israeli authorities and violent Jewish settlers as tensions have grown in the area.

In recent years, extremist settlers have been attacking local Palestinians and their property, as well as the Israeli security forces deployed in large part to protect the settlers, as part of a policy the settlers call the "price tag." The aggressive doctrine calls on settlers and their supporters to exact revenge for any army or police acts against unauthorized building in the settlement outposts and to deter the state from taking further action.

The Israeli military said in a statement that it chose to deploy troops in the seminary, the Od Yosef Chai Yeshiva, "for operational reasons and because it had become a forward base for violent activities against nearby Palestinian villages and the security forces."
slo1
Posts: 4,362
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4/22/2014 8:10:43 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
Here is a nice PDF showing some of the terror activities the settlement has done over the years. I know that the UN wrote a report on this settlement over the years, but have not validated the sources nor validated the below source. With that said for Israel to step in with the military, they surely are/were doing something.

http://www.ochaopt.org...
monty1
Posts: 1,084
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4/22/2014 11:19:47 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/22/2014 8:10:43 AM, slo1 wrote:
Here is a nice PDF showing some of the terror activities the settlement has done over the years. I know that the UN wrote a report on this settlement over the years, but have not validated the sources nor validated the below source. With that said for Israel to step in with the military, they surely are/were doing something.

http://www.ochaopt.org...

When the UN noticed the world becomes aware and that's when the Israelinazis needed to bring the situation under control. It's very like a police internal investigation or perhaps like the Nazi police keeping an eye on the Nazi SS so they don't step out of line. Problem solved! At least for the police and the Nazis!
Jifpop09
Posts: 2,243
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4/22/2014 2:37:46 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/22/2014 8:10:43 AM, slo1 wrote:
Here is a nice PDF showing some of the terror activities the settlement has done over the years. I know that the UN wrote a report on this settlement over the years, but have not validated the sources nor validated the below source. With that said for Israel to step in with the military, they surely are/were doing something.

http://www.ochaopt.org...

The only people who really hate on Israel, are against either....

1. Jews in general

2. The United States.

3. Democracy.

Yeah, there are definitely some other reasons, but these are the most prevalent. I once spent some time on an Iranian social site, and all I ever heard was...

"Death to the Zealots"

"Death to America"

"Death to Democracy"

No joke. Someone would post one of these generic lines (it isn't a stereotype), and they would get 100's of likes.
Leader of the DDO Revolution Party
monty1
Posts: 1,084
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4/22/2014 2:41:50 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/22/2014 2:37:46 PM, Jifpop09 wrote:
At 4/22/2014 8:10:43 AM, slo1 wrote:
Here is a nice PDF showing some of the terror activities the settlement has done over the years. I know that the UN wrote a report on this settlement over the years, but have not validated the sources nor validated the below source. With that said for Israel to step in with the military, they surely are/were doing something.

http://www.ochaopt.org...

The only people who really hate on Israel, are against either....

1. Jews in general

2. The United States.

3. Democracy.

Yeah, there are definitely some other reasons, but these are the most prevalent. I once spent some time on an Iranian social site, and all I ever heard was...

"Death to the Zealots"

"Death to America"

"Death to Democracy"

No joke. Someone would post one of these generic lines (it isn't a stereotype), and they would get 100's of likes.

And how about some of us who are against apartheid walls and Israeli apartheid regimes brother jiffypup?

Is it really worth your time trying to insult me brother?
Jifpop09
Posts: 2,243
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4/22/2014 2:46:32 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/22/2014 2:41:50 PM, monty1 wrote:
At 4/22/2014 2:37:46 PM, Jifpop09 wrote:
At 4/22/2014 8:10:43 AM, slo1 wrote:
Here is a nice PDF showing some of the terror activities the settlement has done over the years. I know that the UN wrote a report on this settlement over the years, but have not validated the sources nor validated the below source. With that said for Israel to step in with the military, they surely are/were doing something.

http://www.ochaopt.org...

The only people who really hate on Israel, are against either....

1. Jews in general

2. The United States.

3. Democracy.

Yeah, there are definitely some other reasons, but these are the most prevalent. I once spent some time on an Iranian social site, and all I ever heard was...

"Death to the Zealots"

"Death to America"

"Death to Democracy"

No joke. Someone would post one of these generic lines (it isn't a stereotype), and they would get 100's of likes.

And how about some of us who are against apartheid walls and Israeli apartheid regimes brother jiffypup?

Is it really worth your time trying to insult me brother?

I'm not insulting you, and frankly, I don't know why the mods allow these ad-hominens to continue. If you want to have a good discussion, then talk to me with respect. I'll do the same for you.
Leader of the DDO Revolution Party
Jifpop09
Posts: 2,243
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4/22/2014 2:49:21 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
And Monty, I was talking to Slo1, not you. I didn't agree or disagree with anything he said, but gave a common observation I noticed.
Leader of the DDO Revolution Party
monty1
Posts: 1,084
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4/22/2014 2:52:41 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/22/2014 2:46:32 PM, Jifpop09 wrote:
At 4/22/2014 2:41:50 PM, monty1 wrote:
At 4/22/2014 2:37:46 PM, Jifpop09 wrote:
At 4/22/2014 8:10:43 AM, slo1 wrote:
Here is a nice PDF showing some of the terror activities the settlement has done over the years. I know that the UN wrote a report on this settlement over the years, but have not validated the sources nor validated the below source. With that said for Israel to step in with the military, they surely are/were doing something.

http://www.ochaopt.org...

The only people who really hate on Israel, are against either....

1. Jews in general

2. The United States.

3. Democracy.

Yeah, there are definitely some other reasons, but these are the most prevalent. I once spent some time on an Iranian social site, and all I ever heard was...

"Death to the Zealots"

"Death to America"

"Death to Democracy"

No joke. Someone would post one of these generic lines (it isn't a stereotype), and they would get 100's of likes.

And how about some of us who are against apartheid walls and Israeli apartheid regimes brother jiffypup?

Is it really worth your time trying to insult me brother?

I'm not insulting you, and frankly, I don't know why the mods allow these ad-hominens to continue. If you want to have a good discussion, then talk to me with respect. I'll do the same for you.

The mods don't want the bad behaviour either and they have made that clear to you too. You need to stop it before they will come to your rescue. As it is, your complaints aren't credible. I have no respect whatsoever for you. Catch ya later jifpup.
slo1
Posts: 4,362
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4/22/2014 2:53:02 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/22/2014 2:37:46 PM, Jifpop09 wrote:
At 4/22/2014 8:10:43 AM, slo1 wrote:
Here is a nice PDF showing some of the terror activities the settlement has done over the years. I know that the UN wrote a report on this settlement over the years, but have not validated the sources nor validated the below source. With that said for Israel to step in with the military, they surely are/were doing something.

http://www.ochaopt.org...

The only people who really hate on Israel, are against either....

1. Jews in general

2. The United States.

3. Democracy.

Yeah, there are definitely some other reasons, but these are the most prevalent. I once spent some time on an Iranian social site, and all I ever heard was...

"Death to the Zealots"

"Death to America"

"Death to Democracy"

No joke. Someone would post one of these generic lines (it isn't a stereotype), and they would get 100's of likes.

What does this have to do with the Israeli military beginning to force this extremist settlement from terrorizing the local Palestinians? ....... or are you saying the Israeli military hates Jews, Americans, and Democracy?
Jifpop09
Posts: 2,243
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4/22/2014 2:54:46 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/22/2014 2:53:02 PM, slo1 wrote:
At 4/22/2014 2:37:46 PM, Jifpop09 wrote:
At 4/22/2014 8:10:43 AM, slo1 wrote:
Here is a nice PDF showing some of the terror activities the settlement has done over the years. I know that the UN wrote a report on this settlement over the years, but have not validated the sources nor validated the below source. With that said for Israel to step in with the military, they surely are/were doing something.

http://www.ochaopt.org...

The only people who really hate on Israel, are against either....

1. Jews in general

2. The United States.

3. Democracy.

Yeah, there are definitely some other reasons, but these are the most prevalent. I once spent some time on an Iranian social site, and all I ever heard was...

"Death to the Zealots"

"Death to America"

"Death to Democracy"

No joke. Someone would post one of these generic lines (it isn't a stereotype), and they would get 100's of likes.

What does this have to do with the Israeli military beginning to force this extremist settlement from terrorizing the local Palestinians? ....... or are you saying the Israeli military hates Jews, Americans, and Democracy?

No, we were talking about Israel, and I just wanted to point this out. I don't agree that its "Palestinian Territory", but force isn't exactly acceptable.

Grey area for me. Hamas militants have been shelling Israel citizens for a decade now.
Leader of the DDO Revolution Party
monty1
Posts: 1,084
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4/22/2014 2:59:06 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/22/2014 2:53:02 PM, slo1 wrote:
At 4/22/2014 2:37:46 PM, Jifpop09 wrote:
At 4/22/2014 8:10:43 AM, slo1 wrote:
Here is a nice PDF showing some of the terror activities the settlement has done over the years. I know that the UN wrote a report on this settlement over the years, but have not validated the sources nor validated the below source. With that said for Israel to step in with the military, they surely are/were doing something.

http://www.ochaopt.org...

The only people who really hate on Israel, are against either....

1. Jews in general

2. The United States.

3. Democracy.

Yeah, there are definitely some other reasons, but these are the most prevalent. I once spent some time on an Iranian social site, and all I ever heard was...

"Death to the Zealots"

"Death to America"

"Death to Democracy"

No joke. Someone would post one of these generic lines (it isn't a stereotype), and they would get 100's of likes.

What does this have to do with the Israeli military beginning to force this extremist settlement from terrorizing the local Palestinians? ....... or are you saying the Israeli military hates Jews, Americans, and Democracy?

I don't know who the jews hate but they were seen dancing for joy on a rooftop as the WTC was being turned into a heap of smoldering rubble.
HPWKA
Posts: 401
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4/22/2014 4:08:36 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
The only people who really hate on Israel, are against either....

1. Jews in general

2. The United States.

3. Democracy.

Like to see a source for that, or I'll chalk it up to the usual Israeli propaganda. Some of the most vocal opponents of Israeli human rights violations are Jews themselves.

Since the US is the only country who cosigns Israel's atrocities, and provides them with unparalleled aid, its natural for opponents of Israeli crimes to dislike the US as well.

Not sure how democracy plays into this, since Israel isn't a democracy.

Yeah, there are definitely some other reasons, but these are the most prevalent. I once spent some time on an Iranian social site, and all I ever heard was...

"Death to the Zealots"

"Death to America"

"Death to Democracy"

No joke. Someone would post one of these generic lines (it isn't a stereotype), and they would get 100's of likes.

And this proves what? Comment sections on Yahoo are 10x worse.

Grey area for me. Hamas militants have been shelling Israel citizens for a decade now.

It should be noted that general Palestinian violent resistance is in response to illegal occupation, colonization, house demolitions, imprisonments, torture, rape, and assassinations, carried out by Israel on Palestinian land/people.

Furthermore, it should also be noted that when ceasefires are reached between Hamas and Israel, Israel is generally responsible for breaking them.
Feelings are the fleeting fancy of fools.
The search for truth in a world of lies is the only thing that matters.
Jifpop09
Posts: 2,243
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4/22/2014 4:17:13 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/22/2014 4:08:36 PM, HPWKA wrote:
The only people who really hate on Israel, are against either....

1. Jews in general

2. The United States.

3. Democracy.

Like to see a source for that, or I'll chalk it up to the usual Israeli propaganda. Some of the most vocal opponents of Israeli human rights violations are Jews themselves.

I specifically said that their are other reasons. These are the common responses you get. I'm not concerned with human rights, as they are all tried by the ICJ, and its not being organized by the government. Human rights are being committed on both sides. The only difference, is one side is organizing them and the other isn't.

Since the US is the only country who cosigns Israel's atrocities, and provides them with unparalleled aid, its natural for opponents of Israeli crimes to dislike the US as well.

Very biased opinion. Plenty of countries, France and Britain more so, have all aided Israel. Isreal had international support in almost all of its wars against the league. And I would like to see a source for atrocities that haven't been tried, that actually took place within the past 40 years.

Not sure how democracy plays into this, since Israel isn't a democracy.

Really? The people elect their leaders and the country is emancipated with the freedom for all to vote. Recheck the def, because it fits it to the number.

Yeah, there are definitely some other reasons, but these are the most prevalent. I once spent some time on an Iranian social site, and all I ever heard was...

"Death to the Zealots"

"Death to America"

"Death to Democracy"

No joke. Someone would post one of these generic lines (it isn't a stereotype), and they would get 100's of likes.

And this proves what? Comment sections on Yahoo are 10x worse.

WTF? Why don't you read before you post $hit like this? I said an Iranian social network, and this was mentioned by literally everyone on there. It was a simple point out of the extent of anti zealotry within the middle east. I would say I've observed enough to get a reliable opinion that discontent is happening.

Grey area for me. Hamas militants have been shelling Israel citizens for a decade now.

It should be noted that general Palestinian violent resistance is in response to illegal occupation, colonization, house demolitions, imprisonments, torture, rape, and assassinations, carried out by Israel on Palestinian land/people.

Furthermore, it should also be noted that when ceasefires are reached between Hamas and Israel, Israel is generally responsible for breaking them.

Your opinions are biased, and while not irrelevant, I find it funny you asked me for sources. Come back with some evidence and then we can talk. All human rights violations have been tried and courted by the International Court of Justice, and the people were found innocent in most cases. Have atrocities happened, yes. But were they on a organized level, no.
Leader of the DDO Revolution Party
HPWKA
Posts: 401
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4/22/2014 5:06:08 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
The only people who really hate on Israel, are against either....

1. Jews in general

2. The United States.

3. Democracy.

Like to see a source for that, or I'll chalk it up to the usual Israeli propaganda. Some of the most vocal opponents of Israeli human rights violations are Jews themselves.

I specifically said that their are other reasons. These are the common responses you get. I'm not concerned with human rights, as they are all tried by the ICJ, and its not being organized by the government. Human rights are being committed on both sides. The only difference, is one side is organizing them and the other isn't.

You are a little incoherent here, but I'll do my best to respond. I agree human rights violations are being committed on both sides. The difference, is that Israeli human rights violations outweigh Palestinian violations 100:1. Furthermore, most Palestinian human rights violations are in resistance to an occupying power (Israel), giving them considerably more legal and moral weight.

Your comments on the ICJ and "organization" don't make sense. Clearly, violations are "organized" on both sides.

Since the US is the only country who cosigns Israel's atrocities, and provides them with unparalleled aid, its natural for opponents of Israeli crimes to dislike the US as well.

Very biased opinion. Plenty of countries, France and Britain more so, have all aided Israel. Isreal had international support in almost all of its wars against the league. And I would like to see a source for atrocities that haven't been tried, that actually took place within the past 40 years.

There's a difference between '"allying" with Israel (as many Arab countries have done), and actively sponsoring Israeli atrocities, and shielding Israel from justice. For instance, the only country in the world which uses its UN veto to shield Israel from international law, is the US. The only country that provides overwhelming and unconditional military/economic support is the US, etc.

Not sure what "league" you are referring to, but Israel has had few supporters in its wars against the Arabs, since its inception in 1948. The few times it has, its because Israel's goals were in line with a superpower (Britain regaining control of Suez canal in Egypt). In terms of occupying stolen territory after the war is over, Israel has had essentially ZERO support.

Not sure how democracy plays into this, since Israel isn't a democracy.

Really? The people elect their leaders and the country is emancipated with the freedom for all to vote. Recheck the def, because it fits it to the number.

That's true for Israel within pre-67 borders. However, Israel also exercises control over the West Bank and Gaza Strip, yet the millions of people who live in those territories can't vote, simply because they aren't Jewish.

Yeah, there are definitely some other reasons, but these are the most prevalent. I once spent some time on an Iranian social site, and all I ever heard was...

"Death to the Zealots"

"Death to America"

"Death to Democracy"

No joke. Someone would post one of these generic lines (it isn't a stereotype), and they would get 100's of likes.

And this proves what? Comment sections on Yahoo are 10x worse.

WTF? Why don't you read before you post $hit like this? I said an Iranian social network, and this was mentioned by literally everyone on there. It was a simple point out of the extent of anti zealotry within the middle east. I would say I've observed enough to get a reliable opinion that discontent is happening.

Settle down. You must be typing furiously, because you're contradicting yourself in your own sentences. Nobody denies there is "discontent" in the Middle-East (and everywhere else except America) at Israel's policies. However that's not what you originally said. You were trying to use an example of an Iranian social network site you once visited to prove that anti-Israel feelings are largely a product of Anti-American/Anti-Democracy feelings.

Also, I don't think you know what "Zealotry" means.

Grey area for me. Hamas militants have been shelling Israel citizens for a decade now.

It should be noted that general Palestinian violent resistance is in response to illegal occupation, colonization, house demolitions, imprisonments, torture, rape, and assassinations, carried out by Israel on Palestinian land/people.

Furthermore, it should also be noted that when ceasefires are reached between Hamas and Israel, Israel is generally responsible for breaking them.

Your opinions are biased, and while not irrelevant, I find it funny you asked me for sources. Come back with some evidence and then we can talk. All human rights violations have been tried and courted by the International Court of Justice, and the people were found innocent in most cases. Have atrocities happened, yes. But were they on a organized level, no.

You don't seem to understand what the ICJ does. It doesn't go looking around the world for human rights violations, try them, and hand down a verdict. It only takes on cases that are referred to it by the General Assembly, and independently, when said case falls within its narrow jurisdiction.

The only major case the ICJ reviewed with regards to Israel (off the top of my head), involved the separation barrier erected in the West Bank by Israel. In its ruling, the ICJ confirmed that the West Bank, Gaza, and Jerusalem are occupied Palestinian territory, and the separation wall was illegal.

I don't have a problem providing sources for Israel crimes, but you need to be specific, and the items in question have to be somewhat controversial. For instance, its a common-fact that Israel conducts regular house-demolitions, has soldiers who rape Palestinians women in detention camps, currently occupies the West Bank and Gaza, and conducts assassinations as a matter of practice.

My opinions are likely biased, but my conclusions are drawn from the investigations of Human Rights Organizations, the UN, World Court, as well as official Israeli/Palestinian statements/positions.
Feelings are the fleeting fancy of fools.
The search for truth in a world of lies is the only thing that matters.
Yerushalmi
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4/22/2014 5:49:54 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
That's true for Israel within pre-67 borders. However, Israel also exercises control over the West Bank and Gaza Strip, yet the millions of people who live in those territories can't vote, simply because they aren't Jewish.

I'm new to this forum, and this is my first post. There's plenty throughout this thread that I'd like to respond to, but I want to start out with this one absolutely ridiculous assertion.

Let's define terms:
Jewish: a member of the religion known as Judaism
Israeli: an individual with citizenship in the State of Israel.

First of all, the Gaza Strip is not under Israel occupation, nor is it under Israeli control, and it hasn't been for years. There is not a single Israeli soldier within the Gaza strip. Accusing Israel of not letting Gazans vote is like accusing the British of not letting the French vote.

As for the West Bank, being Jewish or not Jewish has no impact whatsoever on your ability to vote:
* My father is Jewish but not Israeli. Were he to move to the West Bank, he would be ineligible to vote.
* I am Jewish and Israeli. Were I to move to the West Bank, I would be eligible to vote.
* The non-Jewish guy who works at my local deli, who is Israeli and has Israeli citizenship, would be fully eligible to vote were he to move to the West Bank.
* A non-Jewish guy who lives in rural Oklahoma, who is not Israeli and does not have Israeli citizenship, would not be eligible to vote were he to move to the West Bank.

Notice the common thread? Jewish and Israeli or non-Jewish and Israeli, you can vote. Jewish and non-Israeli or non-Jewish and non-Israeli, you can't vote. The only contributing factor is the Israeli part. Citizenship, not religion, determines vote eligibility.

It's no different from any other country in the world. Americans living in Spain, France, Israel, Russia, Mars, and parallel universes can send in their absentee ballots to vote in American elections, subject to certain restrictions. Religion has nothing whatsoever to do with anything, in this country as with every other.
HPWKA
Posts: 401
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4/22/2014 6:29:42 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/22/2014 5:49:54 PM, Yerushalmi wrote:
That's true for Israel within pre-67 borders. However, Israel also exercises control over the West Bank and Gaza Strip, yet the millions of people who live in those territories can't vote, simply because they aren't Jewish.

First of all, the Gaza Strip is not under Israel occupation, nor is it under Israeli control, and it hasn't been for years. There is not a single Israeli soldier within the Gaza strip. Accusing Israel of not letting Gazans vote is like accusing the British of not letting the French vote.

This is false. Israel controls Gaza's borders, airspace, and territorial waters, through a blockade. Israel controls who or what enters and leaves Gaza, and maintains a "security-zone" that extends hundreds of yards into Gaza's most fertile farmland. As such, the UN, Human Rights Organizations, and even the US, still classify Israel as the occupying power of Gaza.

As for the West Bank, being Jewish or not Jewish has no impact whatsoever on your ability to vote:
* My father is Jewish but not Israeli. Were he to move to the West Bank, he would be ineligible to vote.
* I am Jewish and Israeli. Were I to move to the West Bank, I would be eligible to vote.
* The non-Jewish guy who works at my local deli, who is Israeli and has Israeli citizenship, would be fully eligible to vote were he to move to the West Bank.
* A non-Jewish guy who lives in rural Oklahoma, who is not Israeli and does not have Israeli citizenship, would not be eligible to vote were he to move to the West Bank.

Notice the common thread? Jewish and Israeli or non-Jewish and Israeli, you can vote. Jewish and non-Israeli or non-Jewish and non-Israeli, you can't vote. The only contributing factor is the Israeli part. Citizenship, not religion, determines vote eligibility.

Yes, we all know you must be a citizen of a country to vote, this isn't being contested. If these disenfranchised Palestinians were Israeli-citizens, they would be able to vote. However, Palestinians living in the occupied territories aren't allowed to become Israeli citizens, which stands in stark contrast with the "Law of Return" in Israel, which grants virtually automatic Israeli citizenship to any Jew in the world who cares for it. This would seem to indicate the major obstacle to Palestinians being able to vote in their own lands, is the fact that they aren't Jewish.

Also, LINK me to a unbiased source if I'm mistaken, but I've HEARD that Arab-Israeli's aren't allowed to settle in the Jewish settlements in the West-Bank. If this is true, even if by some miracle Palestinians achieved Israeli citizenship, they still wouldn't be granted equal rights in their lands, compared to Jews.

It's no different from any other country in the world. Americans living in Spain, France, Israel, Russia, Mars, and parallel universes can send in their absentee ballots to vote in American elections, subject to certain restrictions. Religion has nothing whatsoever to do with anything, in this country as with every other.

The above system is quite different from many places in the world. Only in Israel, and a couple Arab countries, is citizenship, and thus subsequent rights, so dependent on one's religion.

Here's a small breakdown of INSTITUTIONALIZED discrimination Arabs/Non-Jews face in Israel. This is to say nothing of what Palestinians face under Israeli occupation, which is closer to war-crimes and apartheid, then "gentle" discrimination.

http://imeu.net...
Feelings are the fleeting fancy of fools.
The search for truth in a world of lies is the only thing that matters.
HPWKA
Posts: 401
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4/22/2014 7:25:28 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/22/2014 6:35:51 PM, YYW wrote:
"Terrorist" settlers? Of all the absurd things to say...

Leaving aside the fact that being active participants in the forced occupation of Palestine could easily be considered terrorism, do you realize some of the things these Jewish settlers have done?

A simple Wiki-search will get you started, but in short, a growing right-wing settler population has frequently been caught attacking Palestinians, Palestinians farms/water resources, vandalizing Mosques and property, as well as occasionally attacking the IDF, whom they increasingly view as "pro" Palestinian (lol).
Feelings are the fleeting fancy of fools.
The search for truth in a world of lies is the only thing that matters.
YYW
Posts: 36,392
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4/22/2014 7:27:15 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/22/2014 7:25:28 PM, HPWKA wrote:
At 4/22/2014 6:35:51 PM, YYW wrote:
"Terrorist" settlers? Of all the absurd things to say...

Leaving aside the fact that being active participants in the forced occupation of Palestine could easily be considered terrorism, do you realize some of the things these Jewish settlers have done?

I'll bet they've never launched bottle rockets at innocent women and children...
Tsar of DDO
YYW
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4/22/2014 7:27:41 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/22/2014 7:27:15 PM, YYW wrote:
At 4/22/2014 7:25:28 PM, HPWKA wrote:
At 4/22/2014 6:35:51 PM, YYW wrote:
"Terrorist" settlers? Of all the absurd things to say...

Leaving aside the fact that being active participants in the forced occupation of Palestine could easily be considered terrorism, do you realize some of the things these Jewish settlers have done?

I'll bet they've never launched bottle rockets at innocent women and children...

And by bottle rockets, I mean missiles from Iran.
Tsar of DDO
HPWKA
Posts: 401
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4/22/2014 7:38:51 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
"Terrorist" settlers? Of all the absurd things to say...

Leaving aside the fact that being active participants in the forced occupation of Palestine could easily be considered terrorism, do you realize some of the things these Jewish settlers have done?

I'll bet they've never launched bottle rockets at innocent women and children...

Perhaps, but then again, I would never call the designation of Hamas as a terrorist organization as "an absurd thing to say".

Regardless, terrorist actions are terrorist actions, regardless of the vehicle used to achieve them.
Feelings are the fleeting fancy of fools.
The search for truth in a world of lies is the only thing that matters.
YYW
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4/22/2014 7:41:47 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/22/2014 7:38:51 PM, HPWKA wrote:
"Terrorist" settlers? Of all the absurd things to say...

Leaving aside the fact that being active participants in the forced occupation of Palestine could easily be considered terrorism, do you realize some of the things these Jewish settlers have done?

I'll bet they've never launched bottle rockets at innocent women and children...

Perhaps, but then again, I would never call the designation of Hamas as a terrorist organization as "an absurd thing to say".

Regardless, terrorist actions are terrorist actions, regardless of the vehicle used to achieve them.

You have offered nothing to substantiate the claim that Israeli settlers are terrorists.
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HPWKA
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4/22/2014 7:55:55 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
You have offered nothing to substantiate the claim that Israeli settlers are terrorists.

I just described terrorist acts carried out by some Jewish settlers. Here's a link to Wikipedia, which gives the basics. http://en.wikipedia.org...
Feelings are the fleeting fancy of fools.
The search for truth in a world of lies is the only thing that matters.
YYW
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4/22/2014 7:57:38 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/22/2014 7:55:55 PM, HPWKA wrote:
You have offered nothing to substantiate the claim that Israeli settlers are terrorists.

I just described terrorist acts carried out by some Jewish settlers. Here's a link to Wikipedia, which gives the basics. http://en.wikipedia.org...

Even assuming those figures are accurate, isolated incidences of assault doth not terrorists make.
Tsar of DDO
HPWKA
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4/22/2014 8:02:40 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Even assuming those figures are accurate, isolated incidences of assault doth not terrorists make.

Ahh yes. YYW's signature skepticism of anything that doesn't come out of an unsubstantiated IDF pamphlet.

People who commit terrorist acts (burning down farms/trees, attacking mosques, poisoning water wells, shooting women/children) are terrorists, regardless of frequency of attacks. Many Hamas operatives haven't fired more then a couple rockets themselves, are they not terrorists?
Feelings are the fleeting fancy of fools.
The search for truth in a world of lies is the only thing that matters.
YYW
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4/22/2014 8:13:37 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/22/2014 8:02:40 PM, HPWKA wrote:
Even assuming those figures are accurate, isolated incidences of assault doth not terrorists make.

Ahh yes. YYW's signature skepticism of anything that doesn't come out of an unsubstantiated IDF pamphlet.

I said "ASSUMING THOSE FIGURES ARE ACCURATE" meaning, even given your evidence's validity, that still doesn't make settlers terrorists. Whenever I talk with Arabs it seems like they willfully misconstrue whatever is being said that kerfuffles the point. That same kind of attitude is probably why a mini-Berlin wall was necessary to contain the Palestinians to keep them from sending suicide bombers to kill Israelis.

I could say "HPWKA's usually ungrounded anti-israeli terrorist-sympathizing propaganda." but meh... I'm just not interested.

People who commit terrorist acts (burning down farms/trees, attacking mosques, poisoning water wells, shooting women/children) are terrorists, regardless of frequency of attacks.

Your evidence says "assaults" -no more. The point was that even if there WERE assaults, frequent or not, that does not make them terrorists. So, which madrasa did you attend?
Tsar of DDO
HPWKA
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4/22/2014 8:45:40 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Even assuming those figures are accurate, isolated incidences of assault doth not terrorists make.

Ahh yes. YYW's signature skepticism of anything that doesn't come out of an unsubstantiated IDF pamphlet.

I said "ASSUMING THOSE FIGURES ARE ACCURATE" meaning, even given your evidence's validity, that still doesn't make settlers terrorists. Whenever I talk with Arabs it seems like they willfully misconstrue whatever is being said that kerfuffles the point. That same kind of attitude is probably why a mini-Berlin wall was necessary to contain the Palestinians to keep them from sending suicide bombers to kill Israelis.

"Assuming those figures are accurate" generally implies that one is raising tacit doubts about the evidence presented. For those who have encountered your Israeli-apologetics before (like me), it simply too heart-warmingly nostalgic to pass without acknowledgement.

Your comment regarding the illegal (via World Court) separation wall is vile. Its similar to the quips made by Apartheid South Africa and Nazi Germany, about being "forced" to intern/wall-off the oppressed, lest the oppressors be subject to violent retaliation.

I could say "HPWKA's usually ungrounded anti-israeli terrorist-sympathizing propaganda." but meh... I'm just not interested.

Why bother, when you have just called me a madrasa-brainwashed Arab? Its quite telling, that you consider a Muslim Arab (what you accuse me of) to be equally as vile as one who falsifies/disregards evidence (what I accused you of).

People who commit terrorist acts (burning down farms/trees, attacking mosques, poisoning water wells, shooting women/children) are terrorists, regardless of frequency of attacks.

Your evidence says "assaults" -no more. The point was that even if there WERE assaults, frequent or not, that does not make them terrorists.

Perhaps this is the reason you always disregard evidence that contradicts your view, you don't actually read the sources. My link clearly details various incidences of Jewish-settler violence, including the poisoning of water-wells.

What's the difference between a Hamas member firing a bottle-rocket over a wall into Israel, and a Jewish settler burning down a farm, shooting civilians, or poisoning water?
Feelings are the fleeting fancy of fools.
The search for truth in a world of lies is the only thing that matters.
slo1
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4/22/2014 9:11:31 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/22/2014 6:35:51 PM, YYW wrote:
"Terrorist" settlers? Of all the absurd things to say...

How so?

This is straight from the Israeli Army:

The Israeli military said in a statement that it chose to deploy troops in the seminary, the Od Yosef Chai Yeshiva, "for operational reasons and because it had become a forward base for violent activities against nearby Palestinian villages and the security forces."

Dictionary.com

ter"ror"ism [ter-uh-riz-uhm] Show IPA
noun
1. the use of violence and threats to intimidate or coerce, especially for political purposes.
2. the state of fear and submission produced by terrorism or terrorization.
3. a terroristic method of governing or of resisting a government.
Yerushalmi
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4/23/2014 2:02:13 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/22/2014 6:29:42 PM, HPWKA wrote:
At 4/22/2014 5:49:54 PM, Yerushalmi wrote:
That's true for Israel within pre-67 borders. However, Israel also exercises control over the West Bank and Gaza Strip, yet the millions of people who live in those territories can't vote, simply because they aren't Jewish.

First of all, the Gaza Strip is not under Israel occupation, nor is it under Israeli control, and it hasn't been for years. There is not a single Israeli soldier within the Gaza strip. Accusing Israel of not letting Gazans vote is like accusing the British of not letting the French vote.

This is false. Israel controls Gaza's borders, airspace, and territorial waters, through a blockade. Israel controls who or what enters and leaves Gaza, and maintains a "security-zone" that extends hundreds of yards into Gaza's most fertile farmland. As such, the UN, Human Rights Organizations, and even the US, still classify Israel as the occupying power of Gaza.

Israel controls Gaza's borders with Israel. Have you forgotten that Gaza has a border with Egypt? America controls its borders with Mexico and controls who or what enters and leaves Mexico by that means; does America occupy Mexico?

Yes, Israel blockades Gaza's waters and airspace. The US blockaded Cuban waters in the 1960s; were Cubans given the right to vote in the interim? Bill Clinton enforced no-fly zones over Iraq throughout the 1990s; I don't remember Saddam casting a protest vote for Perot, do you?

Also, I'd like to see a source for this security zone.


As for the West Bank, being Jewish or not Jewish has no impact whatsoever on your ability to vote:
* My father is Jewish but not Israeli. Were he to move to the West Bank, he would be ineligible to vote.
* I am Jewish and Israeli. Were I to move to the West Bank, I would be eligible to vote.
* The non-Jewish guy who works at my local deli, who is Israeli and has Israeli citizenship, would be fully eligible to vote were he to move to the West Bank.
* A non-Jewish guy who lives in rural Oklahoma, who is not Israeli and does not have Israeli citizenship, would not be eligible to vote were he to move to the West Bank.

Notice the common thread? Jewish and Israeli or non-Jewish and Israeli, you can vote. Jewish and non-Israeli or non-Jewish and non-Israeli, you can't vote. The only contributing factor is the Israeli part. Citizenship, not religion, determines vote eligibility.

Yes, we all know you must be a citizen of a country to vote, this isn't being contested. If these disenfranchised Palestinians were Israeli-citizens, they would be able to vote. However, Palestinians living in the occupied territories aren't allowed to become Israeli citizens, which stands in stark contrast with the "Law of Return" in Israel, which grants virtually automatic Israeli citizenship to any Jew in the world who cares for it. This would seem to indicate the major obstacle to Palestinians being able to vote in their own lands, is the fact that they aren't Jewish.

Jews native to other countries are eligible to become citizens of Israel, yes, but that's because Israel is designed as a refuge for Jews after two thousand years of persecution. So who exactly are you comparing the Palestinians to, exactly?
* Jews native to the West Bank? There are none anymore. There used to be, of course, until the Jordanians kicked them out in 1948, but that's no longer relevant to the discussion at hand. Nobody in the West Bank gains automatic citizenship in Israel, Jewish or non-Jewish.
* Jews native to other countries around the world? Why should the Palestinians be extended the same right to automatic citizenship? As I said, Israel was designed as a refuge for Jews. Jews in Europe or Asia can become citizens automatically through what is basically the largest affirmative action program in the world. But the Palestinians are no more citizens of Israel than Mongolians are. If you claim the former deserve automatic citizenship, you're basically saying that Israel should extend automatic citizenship to anyone in the world, an absurd position.

Unless you're trying to say that Israel has an obligation to extend citizenship just because it occupies the West Bank. The dispute over "occupation" aside, that's like demanding the US extend citizenship to all Iraqis during its occupation thereof. Did you make such a demand at the time?

Anybody who has Israeli citizenship is eligible to vote in Israel, just as the Palestinians who live outside of it are not. Judaism doesn't enter into it at all.


Also, LINK me to a unbiased source if I'm mistaken, but I've HEARD that Arab-Israeli's aren't allowed to settle in the Jewish settlements in the West-Bank. If this is true, even if by some miracle Palestinians achieved Israeli citizenship, they still wouldn't be granted equal rights in their lands, compared to Jews.

LINK me to an unbiased source if I'm mistaken, but I've HEARD that you stole a car once.

Really, if you make a claim like that I think the burden of proof is on you. I've never heard of such a policy, and I live here.


It's no different from any other country in the world. Americans living in Spain, France, Israel, Russia, Mars, and parallel universes can send in their absentee ballots to vote in American elections, subject to certain restrictions. Religion has nothing whatsoever to do with anything, in this country as with every other.

The above system is quite different from many places in the world. Only in Israel, and a couple Arab countries, is citizenship, and thus subsequent rights, so dependent on one's religion.

Here's a small breakdown of INSTITUTIONALIZED discrimination Arabs/Non-Jews face in Israel. This is to say nothing of what Palestinians face under Israeli occupation, which is closer to war-crimes and apartheid, then "gentle" discrimination.

http://imeu.net...

Is this an example of one of your unbiased sources?