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Cuban Healthcare System; The Reality

Objectivity
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4/22/2014 10:23:16 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
The Cuban Healthcare system is not all it's talked up to be by the beloved socialists of DDO, for further reading look here;

http://www.aljazeera.com...

Basically, the only reason Cuba's healthcare system is so great is because their doctors (while receiving decent benefits, supposedly) are paid $67 per month, or $804 a year, less than the annual income per capita of Niger, the world's 7th poorest county per capita. In 2013, over 2,400 cuban doctors defected from the cuban medical mission in Venezuala.

http://www.martinews.com...

An even larger figure says 3,000 cuban doctors have defected from Venezuala, nearly a fourth of the total number of doctors there.

http://www.eluniversal.com...

So let me ask you this, is universal healthcare in Cuba worth the virtual enslavement of thousands of doctors?
monty1
Posts: 1,084
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4/22/2014 11:06:29 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/22/2014 10:23:16 AM, Objectivity wrote:
The Cuban Healthcare system is not all it's talked up to be by the beloved socialists of DDO, for further reading look here;

http://www.aljazeera.com...

Basically, the only reason Cuba's healthcare system is so great is because their doctors (while receiving decent benefits, supposedly) are paid $67 per month, or $804 a year, less than the annual income per capita of Niger, the world's 7th poorest county per capita. In 2013, over 2,400 cuban doctors defected from the cuban medical mission in Venezuala.

http://www.martinews.com...

An even larger figure says 3,000 cuban doctors have defected from Venezuala, nearly a fourth of the total number of doctors there.

http://www.eluniversal.com...

So let me ask you this, is universal healthcare in Cuba worth the virtual enslavement of thousands of doctors?

A few facts: Cuba's doctors became doctors because the system provided the opportunity. And as with many of Cuba's people who are highly educated, some strive to leave the country to find employment in countries where they can earn high wages.

The World Health Organization rated Cuba's health care as being 43rd. in the world. The US was rated one higher at 42nd. Both not good by any standard of modern wealthy countries but both of high standard for banana republics.

And finally, the fact that matters more than a comparison with a corrupt first world country. Cuba's universal health care system puts an entirely different face on poverty. Indeed, can a person really be poor when he has access to good health care for free?

And then for those who have actually been to Cuba and been able to see the people on the streets who are well dressed and looking well fed, we have to wonder what all the US hate is about?

Does the US have laws that say you have to hate people living under communism?
Objectivity
Posts: 1,073
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4/22/2014 11:13:48 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/22/2014 11:06:29 AM, monty1 wrote:
At 4/22/2014 10:23:16 AM, Objectivity wrote:
The Cuban Healthcare system is not all it's talked up to be by the beloved socialists of DDO, for further reading look here;

http://www.aljazeera.com...

Basically, the only reason Cuba's healthcare system is so great is because their doctors (while receiving decent benefits, supposedly) are paid $67 per month, or $804 a year, less than the annual income per capita of Niger, the world's 7th poorest county per capita. In 2013, over 2,400 cuban doctors defected from the cuban medical mission in Venezuala.

http://www.martinews.com...

An even larger figure says 3,000 cuban doctors have defected from Venezuala, nearly a fourth of the total number of doctors there.

http://www.eluniversal.com...

So let me ask you this, is universal healthcare in Cuba worth the virtual enslavement of thousands of doctors?

A few facts: Cuba's doctors became doctors because the system provided the opportunity. And as with many of Cuba's people who are highly educated, some strive to leave the country to find employment in countries where they can earn high wages.

That is exactly why socialism and cuba's healthcare system is fundamentally flawed. The system provided what opportunity? To be paid an annual wage in Cuba that most americans make in a week? That isn't much of an opportunity, my friend.

The World Health Organization rated Cuba's health care as being 43rd. in the world. The US was rated one higher at 42nd. Both not good by any standard of modern wealthy countries but both of high standard for banana republics.

I agree that the USA healthcare system needs reformed, but universal healthcare is simply not the way to go for a wealth of reasons. Also, did you just call the USA a banana republic? lol

Also, the WTO heavily goes off of statistics that are government reported, and as everyone knows, an authoritarian government that is barely in the top 1/3rd of least corrupt countries, and is still rampant with corruption can hardly have statistics that are trusted.

The 2012 Transparency International Corruption Perceptions Index ranked the Cuba 58th out of 176 countries, tied with Jordan and Namibia.[1] and therefore lower levels than most of the other countries in the Caribbean and Central America.

The state ownership has contributed to rampant corruption. The book Corruption in Cuba says that "As in other former socialist countries, when given opportunity, few citizens hesitate to steal from the government. Since the bulk of the productive resources are owned and managed by the state and the vast majority of Cubans work for state-owned enterprises, these petty crimes are widespread".[2]
:

http://en.wikipedia.org...

And finally, the fact that matters more than a comparison with a corrupt first world country. Cuba's universal health care system puts an entirely different face on poverty. Indeed, can a person really be poor when he has access to good health care for free?

Sure they can when they are making less than $1,000 a year, lol.

And then for those who have actually been to Cuba and been able to see the people on the streets who are well dressed and looking well fed, we have to wonder what all the US hate is about?

I am pretty sure personal experience, especially from you of all people, who has notoriously been condemned for falsifying facts, cannot be trusted.

Does the US have laws that say you have to hate people living under communism?

No, but like any other county, it doesn't appreciate other countries nationalizing billions in it's foreign investment, like Cuba did, lol.
monty1
Posts: 1,084
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4/22/2014 11:51:46 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
Objectivity said:
"That is exactly why socialism and cuba's healthcare system is fundamentally flawed. The system provided what opportunity? To be paid an annual wage in Cuba that most americans make in a week? That isn't much of an opportunity, my friend."

As I said, and I'll say again, the Cuban system provided the opportunity for it's citizens to attain a high level of education and thereby become doctors if the chose that profession.

"I agree that the USA healthcare system needs reformed, but universal healthcare is simply not the way to go for a wealth of reasons. Also, did you just call the USA a banana republic? lol"

I don't care if you proceed to universal health care in the future. I don't even care if your people die in the streets for lack of high quality health care of the standard that is provided to all citizens in Canada's system of health care. Phhhht! Just keep the streets clean of dead bodies so there's no spread of bubonic plague. I didn't call the US a banana republic. I said that the US health care system is of high standard for a banana republic. Not even close for a modern wealthy first world country. The WHO said. You can question their credibility all you like.

"Also, the WTO heavily goes off of statistics that are government reported, and as everyone knows, an authoritarian government that is barely in the top 1/3rd of least corrupt countries, and is still rampant with corruption can hardly have statistics that are trusted."

I don't see any reasonable correlation between what the WHO has proclaimed and the fact that Cuba is in the top third of least corrupt countries. Maybe I've missed your point?

" The 2012 Transparency International Corruption Perceptions Index ranked the Cuba 58th out of 176 countries, tied with Jordan and Namibia.[1] and therefore lower levels than most of the other countries in the Caribbean and Central America."

I won't debate that submission because there's nothing there to debate. You haven't even mentioned the particular 'standard' on which Cuba was ranked? Certainly not health care because we know that wouldn't be true and I haven't been able to prove you a liar yet at least. Just very jaded and hatefilled.

"The state ownership has contributed to rampant corruption. The book Corruption in Cuba says that "As in other former socialist countries, when given opportunity, few citizens hesitate to steal from the government. Since the bulk of the productive resources are owned and managed by the state and the vast majority of Cubans work for state-owned enterprises, these petty crimes are widespread".[2]"

That appears to be a footnote to something? Who knows what? Maybe it's a different topic on Cuba in general that you wish to talk about?
Jifpop09
Posts: 2,243
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4/22/2014 2:34:34 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/22/2014 11:13:48 AM, Objectivity wrote:
At 4/22/2014 11:06:29 AM, monty1 wrote:
At 4/22/2014 10:23:16 AM, Objectivity wrote:
The Cuban Healthcare system is not all it's talked up to be by the beloved socialists of DDO, for further reading look here;

http://www.aljazeera.com...

Basically, the only reason Cuba's healthcare system is so great is because their doctors (while receiving decent benefits, supposedly) are paid $67 per month, or $804 a year, less than the annual income per capita of Niger, the world's 7th poorest county per capita. In 2013, over 2,400 cuban doctors defected from the cuban medical mission in Venezuala.

http://www.martinews.com...

An even larger figure says 3,000 cuban doctors have defected from Venezuala, nearly a fourth of the total number of doctors there.

http://www.eluniversal.com...

So let me ask you this, is universal healthcare in Cuba worth the virtual enslavement of thousands of doctors?

A few facts: Cuba's doctors became doctors because the system provided the opportunity. And as with many of Cuba's people who are highly educated, some strive to leave the country to find employment in countries where they can earn high wages.

That is exactly why socialism and cuba's healthcare system is fundamentally flawed. The system provided what opportunity? To be paid an annual wage in Cuba that most americans make in a week? That isn't much of an opportunity, my friend.

The World Health Organization rated Cuba's health care as being 43rd. in the world. The US was rated one higher at 42nd. Both not good by any standard of modern wealthy countries but both of high standard for banana republics.

I agree that the USA healthcare system needs reformed, but universal healthcare is simply not the way to go for a wealth of reasons. Also, did you just call the USA a banana republic? lol

Also, the WTO heavily goes off of statistics that are government reported, and as everyone knows, an authoritarian government that is barely in the top 1/3rd of least corrupt countries, and is still rampant with corruption can hardly have statistics that are trusted.

The 2012 Transparency International Corruption Perceptions Index ranked the Cuba 58th out of 176 countries, tied with Jordan and Namibia.[1] and therefore lower levels than most of the other countries in the Caribbean and Central America.

The state ownership has contributed to rampant corruption. The book Corruption in Cuba says that "As in other former socialist countries, when given opportunity, few citizens hesitate to steal from the government. Since the bulk of the productive resources are owned and managed by the state and the vast majority of Cubans work for state-owned enterprises, these petty crimes are widespread".[2]
:

http://en.wikipedia.org...

And finally, the fact that matters more than a comparison with a corrupt first world country. Cuba's universal health care system puts an entirely different face on poverty. Indeed, can a person really be poor when he has access to good health care for free?

Sure they can when they are making less than $1,000 a year, lol.

And then for those who have actually been to Cuba and been able to see the people on the streets who are well dressed and looking well fed, we have to wonder what all the US hate is about?

I am pretty sure personal experience, especially from you of all people, who has notoriously been condemned for falsifying facts, cannot be trusted.

Does the US have laws that say you have to hate people living under communism?

No, but like any other county, it doesn't appreciate other countries nationalizing billions in it's foreign investment, like Cuba did, lol.

Your right. Cuban doctors get paid at poverty level, and the cost of health care equipment is both minimal and non effective. We could keep everyone running as well, on the condition we gave them actual proper service.
Leader of the DDO Revolution Party
Objectivity
Posts: 1,073
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4/22/2014 4:33:32 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/22/2014 11:51:46 AM, monty1 wrote:
Objectivity said:
"That is exactly why socialism and cuba's healthcare system is fundamentally flawed. The system provided what opportunity? To be paid an annual wage in Cuba that most americans make in a week? That isn't much of an opportunity, my friend."

: As I said, and I'll say again, the Cuban system provided the opportunity for it's citizens to attain a high level of education and thereby become doctors if the chose that profession.


Great, and their education is worth less than $1,000 annually in Cuba. I'd rather be a high school dropout and make $10,000 a year in America. So would most Cuban doctors, some of whom go from being a doctor to servicing hotel rooms, because it pays 12x more. If this isn't pathetic, tell me what is.


"I agree that the USA healthcare system needs reformed, but universal healthcare is simply not the way to go for a wealth of reasons. Also, did you just call the USA a banana republic? lol"

: I don't care if you proceed to universal health care in the future. I don't even care if your people die in the streets for lack of high quality health care of the standard that is provided to all citizens in Canada's system of health care. Phhhht! Just keep the streets clean of dead bodies so there's no spread of bubonic plague. I didn't call the US a banana republic. I said that the US health care system is of high standard for a banana republic. Not even close for a modern wealthy first world country. The WHO said. You can question their credibility all you like.

I will question their credibility because I have good reason to.

"Also, the WTO heavily goes off of statistics that are government reported, and as everyone knows, an authoritarian government that is barely in the top 1/3rd of least corrupt countries, and is still rampant with corruption can hardly have statistics that are trusted."

I don't see any reasonable correlation between what the WHO has proclaimed and the fact that Cuba is in the top third of least corrupt countries. Maybe I've missed your point?

You have because you aren't attempting to comprehend any part of it besides the part that favors your argument.

" The 2012 Transparency International Corruption Perceptions Index ranked the Cuba 58th out of 176 countries, tied with Jordan and Namibia.[1] and therefore lower levels than most of the other countries in the Caribbean and Central America."

I won't debate that submission because there's nothing there to debate. You haven't even mentioned the particular 'standard' on which Cuba was ranked? Certainly not health care because we know that wouldn't be true and I haven't been able to prove you a liar yet at least. Just very jaded and hatefilled.

Er, this is the CPI, Corruption Perception Index, it is not disputed by very many people, but by all means you can try to dispute it's validity.

"The state ownership has contributed to rampant corruption. The book Corruption in Cuba says that "As in other former socialist countries, when given opportunity, few citizens hesitate to steal from the government. Since the bulk of the productive resources are owned and managed by the state and the vast majority of Cubans work for state-owned enterprises, these petty crimes are widespread".[2]"

That appears to be a footnote to something? Who knows what? Maybe it's a different topic on Cuba in general that you wish to talk about?

A footnote? No mate, it is pointing out that Cuba is still a very corrupt state.
monty1
Posts: 1,084
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4/23/2014 12:18:38 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Check it out folks: http://en.wikipedia.org...

Admittedly, the US doesn't do too bad when compared to poor island banana republics! Two better than Cuba isn't so bad.

But not in the same class as the top countries which all practice universal health care.

On the bright side, when Obamacare kicks in fully, and it surely will then the US may rise up a little on the chart?

Then on the other hand, if the US wasn't playing dirty politics and preventing Cuba from joining the world in trade, there's a good possibility that Cuba could rise much higher than the US and get into the upper class along with the Scandinavian countries and France and Italy. There's little doubt that universal health care is the recipe and Cuba already had that years ago because of their successful revolution.