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In Hope of a Sensible and Rational Discussion

monty1
Posts: 1,084
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5/1/2014 12:52:50 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
http://rt.com...

Because, there's little doubt that radical Islam is growing.
Because more wars and trampling on the rights of Muslims is only contributing to it's growth.
Because, if the US claims it's capable of truning away from M.E. oil then it should do so as quickly as possible.
Because there is no valid reason to support the Israelis and their apartheid regime any longer.
Because America is going to suffer very serious BLOWBACK if it continues to provide a reason for radical Muslims to seek revenge.

Don't get into denial and get angry, just take my points and deal with them in a sensible way.
Jifpop09
Posts: 2,243
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5/1/2014 1:19:14 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/1/2014 12:52:50 PM, monty1 wrote:
http://rt.com...

Because, there's little doubt that radical Islam is growing.
Because more wars and trampling on the rights of Muslims is only contributing to it's growth.
Because, if the US claims it's capable of truning away from M.E. oil then it should do so as quickly as possible.
Because there is no valid reason to support the Israelis and their apartheid regime any longer.
Because America is going to suffer very serious BLOWBACK if it continues to provide a reason for radical Muslims to seek revenge.

Don't get into denial and get angry, just take my points and deal with them in a sensible way.

Alright, I actually agree with most of what your saying. Bush's strategy was to just hand out costly MNNA status to Arab nations, to have them counter terrorism. It doesn't work though, because these nations have ineffective militaries.
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Jifpop09
Posts: 2,243
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5/1/2014 1:30:41 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/1/2014 12:52:50 PM, monty1 wrote:
http://rt.com...

Because, there's little doubt that radical Islam is growing.
Because more wars and trampling on the rights of Muslims is only contributing to it's growth.

Disagree with this statement. The wars can be called a lot of things, but they actually provided Iraq and Afghanistan democratic governments. In all of Afghans history, power has never shifted peacefully.

Because, if the US claims it's capable of truning away from M.E. oil then it should do so as quickly as possible.
Because there is no valid reason to support the Israelis and their apartheid regime any longer.

Disagree with this one. Israel is a great ally, but it gets to much MNNA perks.

Because America is going to suffer very serious BLOWBACK if it continues to provide a reason for radical Muslims to seek revenge.

Don't get into denial and get angry, just take my points and deal with them in a sensible way.
Leader of the DDO Revolution Party
monty1
Posts: 1,084
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5/1/2014 1:31:23 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/1/2014 1:19:14 PM, Jifpop09 wrote:
At 5/1/2014 12:52:50 PM, monty1 wrote:
http://rt.com...

Because, there's little doubt that radical Islam is growing.
Because more wars and trampling on the rights of Muslims is only contributing to it's growth.
Because, if the US claims it's capable of truning away from M.E. oil then it should do so as quickly as possible.
Because there is no valid reason to support the Israelis and their apartheid regime any longer.
Because America is going to suffer very serious BLOWBACK if it continues to provide a reason for radical Muslims to seek revenge.

Don't get into denial and get angry, just take my points and deal with them in a sensible way.

Alright, I actually agree with most of what your saying. Bush's strategy was to just hand out costly MNNA status to Arab nations, to have them counter terrorism. It doesn't work though, because these nations have ineffective militaries.

I didn't make that point but it could be quite valid if you would provide an example of 'which' Arab nation.

My main point is of course that if you don't fight them over there then you won't have to fight them over here. Or- it's all about revenge, to which you can disagree if you like, only do so in a rational manner please.
monty1
Posts: 1,084
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5/1/2014 1:33:57 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Israel? I doubt that the claim can be made that the US arms Israel so it can fight terrorism. At least not since 1967, if you even accept that explanation for then?
Jifpop09
Posts: 2,243
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5/1/2014 1:34:54 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/1/2014 1:31:23 PM, monty1 wrote:
At 5/1/2014 1:19:14 PM, Jifpop09 wrote:
At 5/1/2014 12:52:50 PM, monty1 wrote:
http://rt.com...

Because, there's little doubt that radical Islam is growing.
Because more wars and trampling on the rights of Muslims is only contributing to it's growth.
Because, if the US claims it's capable of truning away from M.E. oil then it should do so as quickly as possible.
Because there is no valid reason to support the Israelis and their apartheid regime any longer.
Because America is going to suffer very serious BLOWBACK if it continues to provide a reason for radical Muslims to seek revenge.

Don't get into denial and get angry, just take my points and deal with them in a sensible way.

Alright, I actually agree with most of what your saying. Bush's strategy was to just hand out costly MNNA status to Arab nations, to have them counter terrorism. It doesn't work though, because these nations have ineffective militaries.

I didn't make that point but it could be quite valid if you would provide an example of 'which' Arab nation.

My main point is of course that if you don't fight them over there then you won't have to fight them over here. Or- it's all about revenge, to which you can disagree if you like, only do so in a rational manner please.

That was are actual strategy though. Bush decided that if we handed out MNNA status to Arab nations, then they could fight terrorism for us. Unfortunately, they are incapable of doing so, and keep drawing the US back into conflict due to the MNNA status.

We can't leave Afghanistan anymore. Hillary Clinton signed the BSA and Peace accords, so we are forced to babysit Afghanistan like we do Israel and South Korea. We supply them, train them, and organize them
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monty1
Posts: 1,084
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5/1/2014 3:22:49 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/1/2014 1:34:54 PM, Jifpop09 wrote:
At 5/1/2014 1:31:23 PM, monty1 wrote:
At 5/1/2014 1:19:14 PM, Jifpop09 wrote:
At 5/1/2014 12:52:50 PM, monty1 wrote:
http://rt.com...

Because, there's little doubt that radical Islam is growing.
Because more wars and trampling on the rights of Muslims is only contributing to it's growth.
Because, if the US claims it's capable of truning away from M.E. oil then it should do so as quickly as possible.
Because there is no valid reason to support the Israelis and their apartheid regime any longer.
Because America is going to suffer very serious BLOWBACK if it continues to provide a reason for radical Muslims to seek revenge.

Don't get into denial and get angry, just take my points and deal with them in a sensible way.

Alright, I actually agree with most of what your saying. Bush's strategy was to just hand out costly MNNA status to Arab nations, to have them counter terrorism. It doesn't work though, because these nations have ineffective militaries.

I didn't make that point but it could be quite valid if you would provide an example of 'which' Arab nation.

My main point is of course that if you don't fight them over there then you won't have to fight them over here. Or- it's all about revenge, to which you can disagree if you like, only do so in a rational manner please.

That was are actual strategy though. Bush decided that if we handed out MNNA status to Arab nations, then they could fight terrorism for us. Unfortunately, they are incapable of doing so, and keep drawing the US back into conflict due to the MNNA status.

We can't leave Afghanistan anymore. Hillary Clinton signed the BSA and Peace accords, so we are forced to babysit Afghanistan like we do Israel and South Korea. We supply them, train them, and organize them
I still can't agree that Bush armed Arab countries to fight terrorism. At least until you name the Arab country that you have in mind. You could have a point though.
ararmer1919
Posts: 362
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5/1/2014 5:41:37 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/1/2014 3:22:49 PM, monty1 wrote:
At 5/1/2014 1:34:54 PM, Jifpop09 wrote:
At 5/1/2014 1:31:23 PM, monty1 wrote:
At 5/1/2014 1:19:14 PM, Jifpop09 wrote:
At 5/1/2014 12:52:50 PM, monty1 wrote:
http://rt.com...

Because, there's little doubt that radical Islam is growing.
Because more wars and trampling on the rights of Muslims is only contributing to it's growth.
Because, if the US claims it's capable of truning away from M.E. oil then it should do so as quickly as possible.
Because there is no valid reason to support the Israelis and their apartheid regime any longer.
Because America is going to suffer very serious BLOWBACK if it continues to provide a reason for radical Muslims to seek revenge.

Don't get into denial and get angry, just take my points and deal with them in a sensible way.

Alright, I actually agree with most of what your saying. Bush's strategy was to just hand out costly MNNA status to Arab nations, to have them counter terrorism. It doesn't work though, because these nations have ineffective militaries.

I didn't make that point but it could be quite valid if you would provide an example of 'which' Arab nation.

My main point is of course that if you don't fight them over there then you won't have to fight them over here. Or- it's all about revenge, to which you can disagree if you like, only do so in a rational manner please.

That was are actual strategy though. Bush decided that if we handed out MNNA status to Arab nations, then they could fight terrorism for us. Unfortunately, they are incapable of doing so, and keep drawing the US back into conflict due to the MNNA status.

We can't leave Afghanistan anymore. Hillary Clinton signed the BSA and Peace accords, so we are forced to babysit Afghanistan like we do Israel and South Korea. We supply them, train them, and organize them
I still can't agree that Bush armed Arab countries to fight terrorism. At least until you name the Arab country that you have in mind. You could have a point though.

Jordan, Turkey, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Iraq, Afghanistan, Egypt, Pakistan, Yemen. To name a few.
PotBelliedGeek
Posts: 4,298
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5/1/2014 9:04:02 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/1/2014 5:41:37 PM, ararmer1919 wrote:
At 5/1/2014 3:22:49 PM, monty1 wrote:
At 5/1/2014 1:34:54 PM, Jifpop09 wrote:
At 5/1/2014 1:31:23 PM, monty1 wrote:
At 5/1/2014 1:19:14 PM, Jifpop09 wrote:
At 5/1/2014 12:52:50 PM, monty1 wrote:
http://rt.com...

Because, there's little doubt that radical Islam is growing.
Because more wars and trampling on the rights of Muslims is only contributing to it's growth.
Because, if the US claims it's capable of truning away from M.E. oil then it should do so as quickly as possible.
Because there is no valid reason to support the Israelis and their apartheid regime any longer.
Because America is going to suffer very serious BLOWBACK if it continues to provide a reason for radical Muslims to seek revenge.

Don't get into denial and get angry, just take my points and deal with them in a sensible way.

Alright, I actually agree with most of what your saying. Bush's strategy was to just hand out costly MNNA status to Arab nations, to have them counter terrorism. It doesn't work though, because these nations have ineffective militaries.

I didn't make that point but it could be quite valid if you would provide an example of 'which' Arab nation.

My main point is of course that if you don't fight them over there then you won't have to fight them over here. Or- it's all about revenge, to which you can disagree if you like, only do so in a rational manner please.

That was are actual strategy though. Bush decided that if we handed out MNNA status to Arab nations, then they could fight terrorism for us. Unfortunately, they are incapable of doing so, and keep drawing the US back into conflict due to the MNNA status.

We can't leave Afghanistan anymore. Hillary Clinton signed the BSA and Peace accords, so we are forced to babysit Afghanistan like we do Israel and South Korea. We supply them, train them, and organize them
I still can't agree that Bush armed Arab countries to fight terrorism. At least until you name the Arab country that you have in mind. You could have a point though.

Jordan, Turkey, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Iraq, Afghanistan, Egypt, Pakistan, Yemen. To name a few.

Almost all sovereign Arab states have US and UN supplied Anti terrorism groups.
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Jifpop09
Posts: 2,243
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5/1/2014 9:35:20 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/1/2014 5:41:37 PM, ararmer1919 wrote:
At 5/1/2014 3:22:49 PM, monty1 wrote:
At 5/1/2014 1:34:54 PM, Jifpop09 wrote:
At 5/1/2014 1:31:23 PM, monty1 wrote:
At 5/1/2014 1:19:14 PM, Jifpop09 wrote:
At 5/1/2014 12:52:50 PM, monty1 wrote:
http://rt.com...

Because, there's little doubt that radical Islam is growing.
Because more wars and trampling on the rights of Muslims is only contributing to it's growth.
Because, if the US claims it's capable of truning away from M.E. oil then it should do so as quickly as possible.
Because there is no valid reason to support the Israelis and their apartheid regime any longer.
Because America is going to suffer very serious BLOWBACK if it continues to provide a reason for radical Muslims to seek revenge.

Don't get into denial and get angry, just take my points and deal with them in a sensible way.

Alright, I actually agree with most of what your saying. Bush's strategy was to just hand out costly MNNA status to Arab nations, to have them counter terrorism. It doesn't work though, because these nations have ineffective militaries.

I didn't make that point but it could be quite valid if you would provide an example of 'which' Arab nation.

My main point is of course that if you don't fight them over there then you won't have to fight them over here. Or- it's all about revenge, to which you can disagree if you like, only do so in a rational manner please.

That was are actual strategy though. Bush decided that if we handed out MNNA status to Arab nations, then they could fight terrorism for us. Unfortunately, they are incapable of doing so, and keep drawing the US back into conflict due to the MNNA status.

We can't leave Afghanistan anymore. Hillary Clinton signed the BSA and Peace accords, so we are forced to babysit Afghanistan like we do Israel and South Korea. We supply them, train them, and organize them
I still can't agree that Bush armed Arab countries to fight terrorism. At least until you name the Arab country that you have in mind. You could have a point though.

Jordan, Turkey, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Iraq, Afghanistan, Egypt, Pakistan, Yemen. To name a few.

You forgot Morroco, Bahrain, and Thailand who recieved MNNA status in exchange for military support.
Leader of the DDO Revolution Party
ararmer1919
Posts: 362
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5/1/2014 10:04:17 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/1/2014 9:35:20 PM, Jifpop09 wrote:
At 5/1/2014 5:41:37 PM, ararmer1919 wrote:
At 5/1/2014 3:22:49 PM, monty1 wrote:
At 5/1/2014 1:34:54 PM, Jifpop09 wrote:
At 5/1/2014 1:31:23 PM, monty1 wrote:
At 5/1/2014 1:19:14 PM, Jifpop09 wrote:
At 5/1/2014 12:52:50 PM, monty1 wrote:
http://rt.com...

Because, there's little doubt that radical Islam is growing.
Because more wars and trampling on the rights of Muslims is only contributing to it's growth.
Because, if the US claims it's capable of truning away from M.E. oil then it should do so as quickly as possible.
Because there is no valid reason to support the Israelis and their apartheid regime any longer.
Because America is going to suffer very serious BLOWBACK if it continues to provide a reason for radical Muslims to seek revenge.

Don't get into denial and get angry, just take my points and deal with them in a sensible way.

Alright, I actually agree with most of what your saying. Bush's strategy was to just hand out costly MNNA status to Arab nations, to have them counter terrorism. It doesn't work though, because these nations have ineffective militaries.

I didn't make that point but it could be quite valid if you would provide an example of 'which' Arab nation.

My main point is of course that if you don't fight them over there then you won't have to fight them over here. Or- it's all about revenge, to which you can disagree if you like, only do so in a rational manner please.

That was are actual strategy though. Bush decided that if we handed out MNNA status to Arab nations, then they could fight terrorism for us. Unfortunately, they are incapable of doing so, and keep drawing the US back into conflict due to the MNNA status.

We can't leave Afghanistan anymore. Hillary Clinton signed the BSA and Peace accords, so we are forced to babysit Afghanistan like we do Israel and South Korea. We supply them, train them, and organize them
I still can't agree that Bush armed Arab countries to fight terrorism. At least until you name the Arab country that you have in mind. You could have a point though.

Jordan, Turkey, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Iraq, Afghanistan, Egypt, Pakistan, Yemen. To name a few.

You forgot Morroco, Bahrain, and Thailand who recieved MNNA status in exchange for military support.

Oh I didn't forget them. It's just that he specifically asked for Arab nations in the Middle East so that's what I threw out. I'm also fairly certain though not 100% sure that we supply several other nations like Libya, UAE, and a few of the other Stan nations.
monty1
Posts: 1,084
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5/1/2014 10:09:43 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/1/2014 9:35:20 PM, Jifpop09 wrote:
At 5/1/2014 5:41:37 PM, ararmer1919 wrote:
At 5/1/2014 3:22:49 PM, monty1 wrote:
At 5/1/2014 1:34:54 PM, Jifpop09 wrote:
At 5/1/2014 1:31:23 PM, monty1 wrote:
At 5/1/2014 1:19:14 PM, Jifpop09 wrote:
At 5/1/2014 12:52:50 PM, monty1 wrote:
http://rt.com...

Because, there's little doubt that radical Islam is growing.
Because more wars and trampling on the rights of Muslims is only contributing to it's growth.
Because, if the US claims it's capable of truning away from M.E. oil then it should do so as quickly as possible.
Because there is no valid reason to support the Israelis and their apartheid regime any longer.
Because America is going to suffer very serious BLOWBACK if it continues to provide a reason for radical Muslims to seek revenge.

Don't get into denial and get angry, just take my points and deal with them in a sensible way.

Alright, I actually agree with most of what your saying. Bush's strategy was to just hand out costly MNNA status to Arab nations, to have them counter terrorism. It doesn't work though, because these nations have ineffective militaries.

I didn't make that point but it could be quite valid if you would provide an example of 'which' Arab nation.

My main point is of course that if you don't fight them over there then you won't have to fight them over here. Or- it's all about revenge, to which you can disagree if you like, only do so in a rational manner please.

That was are actual strategy though. Bush decided that if we handed out MNNA status to Arab nations, then they could fight terrorism for us. Unfortunately, they are incapable of doing so, and keep drawing the US back into conflict due to the MNNA status.

We can't leave Afghanistan anymore. Hillary Clinton signed the BSA and Peace accords, so we are forced to babysit Afghanistan like we do Israel and South Korea. We supply them, train them, and organize them
I still can't agree that Bush armed Arab countries to fight terrorism. At least until you name the Arab country that you have in mind. You could have a point though.

Jordan, Turkey, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Iraq, Afghanistan, Egypt, Pakistan, Yemen. To name a few.

You forgot Morroco, Bahrain, and Thailand who recieved MNNA status in exchange for military support.

None of them were armed to fight terrorism and some of them aren't even Arab states. Terrorism didn't even exist on the Arabian peninsula when the US started arming those states.

Name one state, take your best shot, or just forget it. I'm getting tired of this kind of USBS. I asked for a sensible discussion and that wasn't even one of my points.
Jifpop09
Posts: 2,243
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5/1/2014 10:55:23 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/1/2014 10:09:43 PM, monty1 wrote:
At 5/1/2014 9:35:20 PM, Jifpop09 wrote:
At 5/1/2014 5:41:37 PM, ararmer1919 wrote:
At 5/1/2014 3:22:49 PM, monty1 wrote:
At 5/1/2014 1:34:54 PM, Jifpop09 wrote:
At 5/1/2014 1:31:23 PM, monty1 wrote:
At 5/1/2014 1:19:14 PM, Jifpop09 wrote:
At 5/1/2014 12:52:50 PM, monty1 wrote:
http://rt.com...

Because, there's little doubt that radical Islam is growing.
Because more wars and trampling on the rights of Muslims is only contributing to it's growth.
Because, if the US claims it's capable of truning away from M.E. oil then it should do so as quickly as possible.
Because there is no valid reason to support the Israelis and their apartheid regime any longer.
Because America is going to suffer very serious BLOWBACK if it continues to provide a reason for radical Muslims to seek revenge.

Don't get into denial and get angry, just take my points and deal with them in a sensible way.

Alright, I actually agree with most of what your saying. Bush's strategy was to just hand out costly MNNA status to Arab nations, to have them counter terrorism. It doesn't work though, because these nations have ineffective militaries.

I didn't make that point but it could be quite valid if you would provide an example of 'which' Arab nation.

My main point is of course that if you don't fight them over there then you won't have to fight them over here. Or- it's all about revenge, to which you can disagree if you like, only do so in a rational manner please.

That was are actual strategy though. Bush decided that if we handed out MNNA status to Arab nations, then they could fight terrorism for us. Unfortunately, they are incapable of doing so, and keep drawing the US back into conflict due to the MNNA status.

We can't leave Afghanistan anymore. Hillary Clinton signed the BSA and Peace accords, so we are forced to babysit Afghanistan like we do Israel and South Korea. We supply them, train them, and organize them
I still can't agree that Bush armed Arab countries to fight terrorism. At least until you name the Arab country that you have in mind. You could have a point though.

Jordan, Turkey, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Iraq, Afghanistan, Egypt, Pakistan, Yemen. To name a few.

You forgot Morroco, Bahrain, and Thailand who recieved MNNA status in exchange for military support.

None of them were armed to fight terrorism and some of them aren't even Arab states. Terrorism didn't even exist on the Arabian peninsula when the US started arming those states.

Name one state, take your best shot, or just forget it. I'm getting tired of this kind of USBS. I asked for a sensible discussion and that wasn't even one of my points.

Do you know what a MNNA is? It is a major non nato ally of the United States. 6 nations were named MNNA's, on the condition that they launch counter terrorism initiatives with the US.

As a MNNA, they got the entitled benefits

Nations named as major non-NATO allies are eligible for the following benefits:
entry into cooperative research and development projects with the Department of Defense (DoD) on a shared-cost basis
participation in certain counter-terrorism initiatives
purchase of depleted uranium anti-tank rounds
priority delivery of military surplus (ranging from rations to ships)
possession of War Reserve Stocks of DoD-owned equipment that are kept outside of American military bases
loans of equipment and materials for cooperative research and development projects and evaluations
permission to use American financing for the purchase or lease of certain defense equipment
reciprocal training
expedited export processing of space technology
permission for the country's corporations to bid on certain DoD contracts for the repair and maintenance of military equipment outside the United States


For launching these initiatives, we agreed to give them these benefits. We are responsible for training, supplying, and organizing their armies, at the expense of the DOD budget. So yes, these nations are all fighting terrorism with the United States.

- Morroco

- Bahrain

- Pakistan

- Kuwait

- Afghanistan

- Egypt

The reason I brought MNNA's up, is because you said we are trampling on muslim sovereignty. This is false. The wars in Afghanistan and Pakistan are fully supported by both governments.
Leader of the DDO Revolution Party