Total Posts:9|Showing Posts:1-9
Jump to topic:

Progressives should Support Israel

AnsweringAtheism
Posts: 27
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/2/2014 3:54:25 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Saw some posts on Israel recently and thought I'd chime in. I believe that progressives ought to support Israel because Israel is the most progressive nation in the middle east. Is Israel perfect? Absolutely not. Does Israel have its flaws? Absolutely! Though it is a huge mistake to call Israel an Apartheid state worthy to be boycotted.

In the Huffington Post, Steve Sheffey points out the following:

Israel is a progressive's dream: "Universal education, universal health care, equal rights, minority rights protections, strong activist courts, and gays and lesbians openly serving in the military." As progressives, we should be outraged by the way the Arabs, including the Palestinians, treat women, gays and other minorities. We should be outraged that the Palestinians demand that no Jews should be allowed to live in the West Bank, even as over one million Palestinians live within pre-1967 Israel. We should be outraged by the beheadings and honor killings. Israel is not perfect, but Israel holds itself to its own standards, to progressive standards.

Israel is accused by some of apartheid. Yet Arab Israelis "can be found on the Supreme Court, in the Knesset (parliament), in ambassadorial positions, as senior officers in the police and army, as mayors, as deputy-speakers of the Knesset and even as government ministers and deputy ministers. Prominent Arab Israelis can be found in almost every sphere of Israeli life, including in the medical fields, media and playing on Israel's national soccer team." Whatever an apartheid state is, it's not Israel.


http://www.huffingtonpost.com...

On a final note, I think it is quite odd that so-called progressives boycott Israel because they are "aprtheid" but have no problem with Saudi Arabia forbidding non-Muslisms from even entering Mecca.
HPWKA
Posts: 401
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/2/2014 4:57:11 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Cute, but as usual, this pro-Israeli propaganda misses the mark (likely intentionally). The issue isn't how Israel treats Jews or how Israel treats Israeli-Arab-citizens. In this regard, Israel is the most progressive country in the Middle East, and isn't anything resembling Apartheid.

The issue, which you skirted, is how Israel treats the non-Jews living in the occupied Palestinian territories, which are under Israeli sovereignty. Here, Israel treats the non-Jews worse then nearly any Arab state treats their minorities. Here, exists a system many South Africans say is WORSE then former South African Apartheid. Until you acknowledge this reality, your Israeli-travel-agent speel will fall on deaf ears.

Your diatribe against Palestinians/Arabs is clumsy. You would have us turn a blind eye to Israeli atrocities, because there are other peoples/countries who're committing human rights violations (on a much smaller scale then Israel)? Apart from being clumsy, your attempt to deflect attention from Israel is largely fallacious. Apart from a select few Arab states, the image you paint of women abusing, infidel beheading, barbarians is a fiction. These acts are relatively rare (unlike the systematic oppression by Israel), and in no way define the Arabs/Palestinians.

I don't have a problem with Saudi Arabia not allowing non-Muslims into their holly cities, because its their country, and they can make that choice. Israel on the other hand, is a country built on the expulsion/occupation of native Palestinians, and colonization of foreign Jews. There is clear difference.
Feelings are the fleeting fancy of fools.
The search for truth in a world of lies is the only thing that matters.
AnsweringAtheism
Posts: 27
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/2/2014 8:58:27 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/2/2014 7:04:03 PM, Citrakayah wrote:
We should support them because they aren't as bad as these total a$$holes isn't a very good reason.

Did you READ the post?
Citrakayah
Posts: 1,500
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/3/2014 8:37:19 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/2/2014 8:58:27 PM, AnsweringAtheism wrote:
At 5/2/2014 7:04:03 PM, Citrakayah wrote:
We should support them because they aren't as bad as these total a$$holes isn't a very good reason.

Did you READ the post?

Yes.
1Historygenius
Posts: 1,639
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/3/2014 9:23:36 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Let one Jewish state live. Here's the problem easily explained. http://youtube.com...
"The chief business of the American people is business." - Calvin Coolidge

Latest debate - Reagan was a better President than Obama: http://www.debate.org...
HPWKA
Posts: 401
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/3/2014 11:39:42 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/3/2014 9:23:36 PM, 1Historygenius wrote:
Let one Jewish state live. Here's the problem easily explained. http://youtube.com...

LOL.
Feelings are the fleeting fancy of fools.
The search for truth in a world of lies is the only thing that matters.
monty1
Posts: 1,084
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/4/2014 11:53:48 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
Make no mistake, the US will continue to support Israel in large enough numbers to make it a sure thing. At least until it pays a price for supporting an evil apartheid regime. Then it may start to reconsider and understand that the price could be too high for illogical support of Israel.

On the bright side, when the US separates itself from ME oil, if in fact that can ever happen, the love affair with Israel will no longer have any useful purpose and it will gradually be abandoned.

Perhaps Israel is already seeing that day approaching and is trying to complete it's mission of apartheid against the Palestinian people while it still is able with US support.
slo1
Posts: 4,332
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/4/2014 7:17:34 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/2/2014 3:54:25 PM, AnsweringAtheism wrote:
Saw some posts on Israel recently and thought I'd chime in. I believe that progressives ought to support Israel because Israel is the most progressive nation in the middle east. Is Israel perfect? Absolutely not. Does Israel have its flaws? Absolutely! Though it is a huge mistake to call Israel an Apartheid state worthy to be boycotted.

In the Huffington Post, Steve Sheffey points out the following:

Israel is a progressive's dream: "Universal education, universal health care, equal rights, minority rights protections, strong activist courts, and gays and lesbians openly serving in the military." As progressives, we should be outraged by the way the Arabs, including the Palestinians, treat women, gays and other minorities. We should be outraged that the Palestinians demand that no Jews should be allowed to live in the West Bank, even as over one million Palestinians live within pre-1967 Israel. We should be outraged by the beheadings and honor killings. Israel is not perfect, but Israel holds itself to its own standards, to progressive standards.

Israel is accused by some of apartheid. Yet Arab Israelis "can be found on the Supreme Court, in the Knesset (parliament), in ambassadorial positions, as senior officers in the police and army, as mayors, as deputy-speakers of the Knesset and even as government ministers and deputy ministers. Prominent Arab Israelis can be found in almost every sphere of Israeli life, including in the medical fields, media and playing on Israel's national soccer team." Whatever an apartheid state is, it's not Israel.


http://www.huffingtonpost.com...


On a final note, I think it is quite odd that so-called progressives boycott Israel because they are "aprtheid" but have no problem with Saudi Arabia forbidding non-Muslisms from even entering Mecca.

Two things.

Your entire premise is built up pre--1967 borders that Israel itself does not recognize.

Second, all the social programs bring into question why conservative Christians and the US right wing overwhelmingly support Israel with no questions asked.