Total Posts:4|Showing Posts:1-4
Jump to topic:

The Problem with Big Governments

Conservative101
Posts: 191
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/14/2014 7:55:59 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
Why not to trust governments? Here's an incomplete list of what governments have done in the last century.

1929-1953: Reign of Joseph Stalin in the USSR. Through executions, failed reforms and forced labor camps, over 20 million Soviet citizens die. The death toll rises when World War II and the Russian Civil War are considered.

1934-1945: Reign of Adolf Hitler in Nazi Germany. Over 6 million Jews are killed. Hitler caused WWII, which led to the deaths of an estimated 50-80 million people.

1942-1945: FDR, acting on nothing more than fear itself, places over 110,000 Japanese Americans in camps for no reason other than their ancestry and heritage. Japanese Americans lose homes and belongings and live in mediocre conditions.

1949-1976: Communists take over China. Through Mao Zedong's "Cultural Revolution" and democide, as many as 70 million Chinese are killed.

1950-present: North Korea launches Korean War, leading to the deaths of millions. Afterwards, North Korean communist regime strengthens its hold on power, leading to the deaths of thousands, if not millions of North Koreans. Living conditions decrease, militarization increases, and the population is under complete control of the government.

1975-79: The Khmer Rouge, under Pol Pot rule Cambodia. In less than five years, these communists kill over a million (up to 3 million) Cambodians, as much as 25% of the Cambodian population, in what is known as the Cambodian Genocide.

1970s to 2000s: Saddam Hussein rules Iraq. During his rule, Iraqi Government uses chemical weapons against its own Kurdish population, occupies Kuwait, wages war with Iran (death toll: hundreds of thousands to millions) and establishes complete control.

I'm not saying every government is bad, but if a single government gets too much control and exercises too much power over its people, then things like this happen. If anyone believes the same thing can't happen in the United States, they are kidding themselves.
When in doubt, start riots and scream racism
Kc1999
Posts: 1,037
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/14/2014 8:10:36 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/14/2014 7:55:59 AM, Conservative101 wrote:
Why not to trust governments? Here's an incomplete list of what governments have done in the last century.

1929-1953: Reign of Joseph Stalin in the USSR. Through executions, failed reforms and forced labor camps, over 20 million Soviet citizens die. The death toll rises when World War II and the Russian Civil War are considered.

This was a result of poor planning by mister Stalin himself and horrible econmic planning.

1934-1945: Reign of Adolf Hitler in Nazi Germany. Over 6 million Jews are killed. Hitler caused WWII, which led to the deaths of an estimated 50-80 million people.

If we're talking in the sense of political stability, then hell yeah, the regime was very very stable. The historical context of the regime (i.e what it did) shouldn't be considered if we're talking about the government.


1942-1945: FDR, acting on nothing more than fear itself, places over 110,000 Japanese Americans in camps for no reason other than their ancestry and heritage. Japanese Americans lose homes and belongings and live in mediocre conditions.

1949-1976: Communists take over China. Through Mao Zedong's "Cultural Revolution" and democide, as many as 70 million Chinese are killed.

Its funny how you use Mao Zedong as an example; the Great Leap Foward saw the decline in central authority (and so did the Cultural Revolution).

1950-present: North Korea launches Korean War, leading to the deaths of millions. Afterwards, North Korean communist regime strengthens its hold on power, leading to the deaths of thousands, if not millions of North Koreans. Living conditions decrease, militarization increases, and the population is under complete control of the government.

Its funny of you to say, since North Korea did have a better developed economy than South Korea until the collapse of the Soviet Union.

1975-79: The Khmer Rouge, under Pol Pot rule Cambodia. In less than five years, these communists kill over a million (up to 3 million) Cambodians, as much as 25% of the Cambodian population, in what is known as the Cambodian Genocide.

1970s to 2000s: Saddam Hussein rules Iraq. During his rule, Iraqi Government uses chemical weapons against its own Kurdish population, occupies Kuwait, wages war with Iran (death toll: hundreds of thousands to millions) and establishes complete control.

I believe that Saddam's rule was not a rule of one party, or one group, but rather a small junta of people (and I could say the same, I guess, with the Pol Pot Regime. Plus that regime is run by socialists, what do you expect?!)

I'm not saying every government is bad, but if a single government gets too much control and exercises too much power over its people, then things like this happen. If anyone believes the same thing can't happen in the United States, they are kidding themselves.

The same can't happen with the United States of course, but the same thing could be beneficial for other countries like Thailand and all.
#NoToMobocracy #BladeStroink
Magistrate
Posts: 6
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/14/2014 9:03:04 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
Most of your contention rests on the premise of world leaders while your topic was about the system. The system of which the government operates on is obviously different from the peers than run them.

For example, Tito ran a dictatorship, yet he is praised for being a benevolent dictator [http://en.wikipedia.org...] regardless of his extreme authoritarian nature. Executive blame is too reductionist. I think you have to consider all other factors instead of isolating them.
" Rather the fallacy is calling it ridiculous since only an authority has right enforce what is need, in which you clearly have no authority to do."
~AuthorUnknown, on appeal to authority fallacy (LOL...religious forum)

When you make an argument, make sure you're the king of lala land. Otherwise, no matter how sound you are, you are still stupid.
Stephen_Hawkins
Posts: 5,316
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/14/2014 3:53:51 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
To build on Magistrate, I think the issue is with using anecdotes to show a trend - that is, you're using too small a sample. Moreover, what counts as 'big government'? Some would say the USA has too big a government, even a gigantic monolithic government. If so, they are hardly the evil that is being expressed by Stalin, Hitler, and the Khmer Rouge.

Similarly, is Attlee's government evil? Or Churchill during the war? Or Asquith? Or numerous Kings and Queens like Peter the Great or Frederick the Great, or Lorenzo Medici, Louis XIV, etc.?
Give a man a fish, he'll eat for a day. Teach him how to be Gay, he'll positively influence the GDP.

Social Contract Theory debate: http://www.debate.org...