Total Posts:61|Showing Posts:1-30|Last Page
Jump to topic:

Iran, The Terrible

YYW
Posts: 36,392
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/23/2014 9:55:21 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
http://www.telegraph.co.uk...

A red carpet peck on the cheek by Leila Hatami, the Iranian actress at the Cannes Film Festival has been reported to the country"s courts by activists who are seeking a public flogging as punishment for violating Islamic laws.

Iran's legal system is barbaric and deranged and Islamic law is an affront to human rights.
Tsar of DDO
Csareo
Posts: 194
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/23/2014 1:23:59 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/23/2014 9:55:21 AM, YYW wrote:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk...

A red carpet peck on the cheek by Leila Hatami, the Iranian actress at the Cannes Film Festival has been reported to the country"s courts by activists who are seeking a public flogging as punishment for violating Islamic laws.

Iran's legal system is barbaric and deranged and Islamic law is an affront to human rights.

Iran is far ahead of other Islamic states in Human Development, which is why they deserve a break. I can assure you, most of the people there do want Islamic Fascism, so its out duty as advocates of democracy to allow that choice.

For some, Iran is a haven for a greater Islamic empire. Remember that. And don't be fooled, as the western movement has political parties and terrorist groups that seek to install Theological states.

Have you heard of the constitution party? The fourth largest party in membership, in America, is indeed seeking to put the bible in the constitution. Many people want that, especially in the south. I think its time the west acknowledges that. In Afghanistan, the national coalition wants to put a democratic Islamic theocracy state.

Ghandi though, who is a world renowned liberal Afghan-American economist, and recognized political theorist, sounds more attractive to americans than the Islamic Theocracy party, right? Well, he's going to lose, and we need to apply this to Iran. You simply can't have a democracy and expect that to just change the society and culture.

So, the point I'm getting to, is that if we respect Iran being a republic, than we also need to respect any laws they put in place. We can expect reform over time, but crying about how abusive they are, from the policies of a president they elected, is foolish. Most of Iran is pretty nice, and they are content living in such a state.

Oh, but don't get me started on the double standard the US employs on our nuclear policy. We tell Iran to give up the nukes, but we continue to allow Israel to have them? BS
http://www.edeb8.com...

Edeb8 unofficial champion of team debate bug finding

PM me for questions on campaign http://www.debate.org...
EndarkenedRationalist
Posts: 14,201
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/23/2014 1:41:36 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/23/2014 1:23:59 PM, Csareo wrote:
At 5/23/2014 9:55:21 AM, YYW wrote:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk...

A red carpet peck on the cheek by Leila Hatami, the Iranian actress at the Cannes Film Festival has been reported to the country"s courts by activists who are seeking a public flogging as punishment for violating Islamic laws.

Iran's legal system is barbaric and deranged and Islamic law is an affront to human rights.

Iran is far ahead of other Islamic states in Human Development, which is why they deserve a break. I can assure you, most of the people there do want Islamic Fascism, so its out duty as advocates of democracy to allow that choice.

For some, Iran is a haven for a greater Islamic empire. Remember that. And don't be fooled, as the western movement has political parties and terrorist groups that seek to install Theological states.

Have you heard of the constitution party? The fourth largest party in membership, in America, is indeed seeking to put the bible in the constitution. Many people want that, especially in the south. I think its time the west acknowledges that. In Afghanistan, the national coalition wants to put a democratic Islamic theocracy state.

Ghandi though, who is a world renowned liberal Afghan-American economist, and recognized political theorist, sounds more attractive to americans than the Islamic Theocracy party, right? Well, he's going to lose, and we need to apply this to Iran. You simply can't have a democracy and expect that to just change the society and culture.

So, the point I'm getting to, is that if we respect Iran being a republic, than we also need to respect any laws they put in place. We can expect reform over time, but crying about how abusive they are, from the policies of a president they elected, is foolish. Most of Iran is pretty nice, and they are content living in such a state.

Oh, but don't get me started on the double standard the US employs on our nuclear policy. We tell Iran to give up the nukes, but we continue to allow Israel to have them? BS

Is this the point to bring up the implied hypocrisy of you likely criticizing Israel for its human rights abuses while you just defended Iran? When Israel is light-years ahead of Iran in that sense? Or do you not hold Israel accountable for that?
Csareo
Posts: 194
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/23/2014 1:44:02 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/23/2014 1:41:36 PM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:
At 5/23/2014 1:23:59 PM, Csareo wrote:
At 5/23/2014 9:55:21 AM, YYW wrote:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk...

A red carpet peck on the cheek by Leila Hatami, the Iranian actress at the Cannes Film Festival has been reported to the country"s courts by activists who are seeking a public flogging as punishment for violating Islamic laws.

Iran's legal system is barbaric and deranged and Islamic law is an affront to human rights.

Iran is far ahead of other Islamic states in Human Development, which is why they deserve a break. I can assure you, most of the people there do want Islamic Fascism, so its out duty as advocates of democracy to allow that choice.

For some, Iran is a haven for a greater Islamic empire. Remember that. And don't be fooled, as the western movement has political parties and terrorist groups that seek to install Theological states.

Have you heard of the constitution party? The fourth largest party in membership, in America, is indeed seeking to put the bible in the constitution. Many people want that, especially in the south. I think its time the west acknowledges that. In Afghanistan, the national coalition wants to put a democratic Islamic theocracy state.

Ghandi though, who is a world renowned liberal Afghan-American economist, and recognized political theorist, sounds more attractive to americans than the Islamic Theocracy party, right? Well, he's going to lose, and we need to apply this to Iran. You simply can't have a democracy and expect that to just change the society and culture.

So, the point I'm getting to, is that if we respect Iran being a republic, than we also need to respect any laws they put in place. We can expect reform over time, but crying about how abusive they are, from the policies of a president they elected, is foolish. Most of Iran is pretty nice, and they are content living in such a state.

Oh, but don't get me started on the double standard the US employs on our nuclear policy. We tell Iran to give up the nukes, but we continue to allow Israel to have them? BS

Is this the point to bring up the implied hypocrisy of you likely criticizing Israel for its human rights abuses while you just defended Iran? When Israel is light-years ahead of Iran in that sense? Or do you not hold Israel accountable for that?

No, its US hypocripsy. We do it with Pakistan and India also. We talk about disarament, and that nukes in Iran should be relinquished, but we allow Israel to keep these nukes? Please, tell me how that is not hypocripsy. I support Israel's actions, but the fact is, we are occupying that country, but do not remove the nukes in it?

Double standard, right?
http://www.edeb8.com...

Edeb8 unofficial champion of team debate bug finding

PM me for questions on campaign http://www.debate.org...
Csareo
Posts: 194
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/23/2014 1:51:30 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
I was not defending Iran either. I was saying that we should respect and not condemn laws that were established by the vote of the people.
http://www.edeb8.com...

Edeb8 unofficial champion of team debate bug finding

PM me for questions on campaign http://www.debate.org...
YYW
Posts: 36,392
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/23/2014 2:02:13 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/23/2014 1:23:59 PM, Csareo wrote:
So, the point I'm getting to, is that if we respect Iran being a republic, than we also need to respect any laws they put in place.

No, we do not.
Tsar of DDO
Csareo
Posts: 194
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/23/2014 2:03:44 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/23/2014 2:02:13 PM, YYW wrote:
At 5/23/2014 1:23:59 PM, Csareo wrote:
So, the point I'm getting to, is that if we respect Iran being a republic, than we also need to respect any laws they put in place.

No, we do not.

Then, we should not respect the peoples choice. Enlighten me?
http://www.edeb8.com...

Edeb8 unofficial champion of team debate bug finding

PM me for questions on campaign http://www.debate.org...
YYW
Posts: 36,392
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/23/2014 2:06:37 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/23/2014 2:03:44 PM, Csareo wrote:
At 5/23/2014 2:02:13 PM, YYW wrote:
At 5/23/2014 1:23:59 PM, Csareo wrote:
So, the point I'm getting to, is that if we respect Iran being a republic, than we also need to respect any laws they put in place.

No, we do not.

Then, we should not respect the peoples choice. Enlighten me?

Did the Iranian people decide that public flogging is an acceptable consequence for a woman being kissed on the cheek by a foreign man? No. A barbaric Islamic theocrat or group of barbaric Islamic theocrats made that call.

And I respect no one who uses religion to violate human rights. The Iranian government, and it's disgraceful legal code, use religion to systematically violate human rights. Iran and its legal system will, therefore, not enjoy my respect until they conform to Western standards of respect for human rights and human dignity.
Tsar of DDO
Csareo
Posts: 194
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/23/2014 2:13:49 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/23/2014 2:06:37 PM, YYW wrote:
At 5/23/2014 2:03:44 PM, Csareo wrote:
At 5/23/2014 2:02:13 PM, YYW wrote:
At 5/23/2014 1:23:59 PM, Csareo wrote:
So, the point I'm getting to, is that if we respect Iran being a republic, than we also need to respect any laws they put in place.

No, we do not.

Then, we should not respect the peoples choice. Enlighten me?

Did the Iranian people decide that public flogging is an acceptable consequence for a woman being kissed on the cheek by a foreign man? No. A barbaric Islamic theocrat or group of barbaric Islamic theocrats made that call.

Did the Iranian people elect the parliament who established these laws? If so, then explain why the democratic institution does not extend to theocratic states? Is it possible, just maybe, that Persians want a Islamic Fascist state?

They are a rather new republic, with a lot of influence from Russia. We need to respect their decisions, but that doesn't mean we should be quiet about them. I encourage activism, just not on the governments behalf.

And I respect no one who uses religion to violate human rights. The Iranian government, and it's disgraceful legal code, use religion to systematically violate human rights. Iran and its legal system will, therefore, not enjoy my respect until they conform to Western standards of respect for human rights and human dignity.

What treaty are they violating? I know they're violating non-proliferation, but I know of no other treaties they're breaking. They have a human development index well above other third world countries, and it raises every year.

Am I saying that Iran doesn't commit human right abuses? No, that's evident enough with their treatment of Bahai tribes. All I'm saying, is that the laws of the people should be respected and tolerated.

Condemn them all you want, but at least they have an institution capable of changing those laws. It works better for everyone if other nations don't get involved in political processes outside their own.
http://www.edeb8.com...

Edeb8 unofficial champion of team debate bug finding

PM me for questions on campaign http://www.debate.org...
Greyparrot
Posts: 14,325
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/23/2014 3:04:41 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/23/2014 2:13:49 PM, Csareo wrote:

Condemn them all you want, but at least they have an institution capable of changing those laws. It works better for everyone if other nations don't get involved in political processes outside their own.

Nations don't exist in a bubble.
EndarkenedRationalist
Posts: 14,201
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/23/2014 3:45:35 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/23/2014 1:44:02 PM, Csareo wrote:
At 5/23/2014 1:41:36 PM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:
At 5/23/2014 1:23:59 PM, Csareo wrote:
At 5/23/2014 9:55:21 AM, YYW wrote:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk...

A red carpet peck on the cheek by Leila Hatami, the Iranian actress at the Cannes Film Festival has been reported to the country"s courts by activists who are seeking a public flogging as punishment for violating Islamic laws.

Iran's legal system is barbaric and deranged and Islamic law is an affront to human rights.

Iran is far ahead of other Islamic states in Human Development, which is why they deserve a break. I can assure you, most of the people there do want Islamic Fascism, so its out duty as advocates of democracy to allow that choice.

For some, Iran is a haven for a greater Islamic empire. Remember that. And don't be fooled, as the western movement has political parties and terrorist groups that seek to install Theological states.

Have you heard of the constitution party? The fourth largest party in membership, in America, is indeed seeking to put the bible in the constitution. Many people want that, especially in the south. I think its time the west acknowledges that. In Afghanistan, the national coalition wants to put a democratic Islamic theocracy state.

Ghandi though, who is a world renowned liberal Afghan-American economist, and recognized political theorist, sounds more attractive to americans than the Islamic Theocracy party, right? Well, he's going to lose, and we need to apply this to Iran. You simply can't have a democracy and expect that to just change the society and culture.

So, the point I'm getting to, is that if we respect Iran being a republic, than we also need to respect any laws they put in place. We can expect reform over time, but crying about how abusive they are, from the policies of a president they elected, is foolish. Most of Iran is pretty nice, and they are content living in such a state.

Oh, but don't get me started on the double standard the US employs on our nuclear policy. We tell Iran to give up the nukes, but we continue to allow Israel to have them? BS

Is this the point to bring up the implied hypocrisy of you likely criticizing Israel for its human rights abuses while you just defended Iran? When Israel is light-years ahead of Iran in that sense? Or do you not hold Israel accountable for that?

No, its US hypocripsy. We do it with Pakistan and India also. We talk about disarament, and that nukes in Iran should be relinquished, but we allow Israel to keep these nukes? Please, tell me how that is not hypocripsy. I support Israel's actions, but the fact is, we are occupying that country, but do not remove the nukes in it?

Double standard, right?

Without nukes, Israel wouldn't survive.
Csareo
Posts: 194
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/23/2014 3:46:35 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/23/2014 3:45:35 PM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:
At 5/23/2014 1:44:02 PM, Csareo wrote:
At 5/23/2014 1:41:36 PM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:
At 5/23/2014 1:23:59 PM, Csareo wrote:
At 5/23/2014 9:55:21 AM, YYW wrote:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk...

A red carpet peck on the cheek by Leila Hatami, the Iranian actress at the Cannes Film Festival has been reported to the country"s courts by activists who are seeking a public flogging as punishment for violating Islamic laws.

Iran's legal system is barbaric and deranged and Islamic law is an affront to human rights.

Iran is far ahead of other Islamic states in Human Development, which is why they deserve a break. I can assure you, most of the people there do want Islamic Fascism, so its out duty as advocates of democracy to allow that choice.

For some, Iran is a haven for a greater Islamic empire. Remember that. And don't be fooled, as the western movement has political parties and terrorist groups that seek to install Theological states.

Have you heard of the constitution party? The fourth largest party in membership, in America, is indeed seeking to put the bible in the constitution. Many people want that, especially in the south. I think its time the west acknowledges that. In Afghanistan, the national coalition wants to put a democratic Islamic theocracy state.

Ghandi though, who is a world renowned liberal Afghan-American economist, and recognized political theorist, sounds more attractive to americans than the Islamic Theocracy party, right? Well, he's going to lose, and we need to apply this to Iran. You simply can't have a democracy and expect that to just change the society and culture.

So, the point I'm getting to, is that if we respect Iran being a republic, than we also need to respect any laws they put in place. We can expect reform over time, but crying about how abusive they are, from the policies of a president they elected, is foolish. Most of Iran is pretty nice, and they are content living in such a state.

Oh, but don't get me started on the double standard the US employs on our nuclear policy. We tell Iran to give up the nukes, but we continue to allow Israel to have them? BS

Is this the point to bring up the implied hypocrisy of you likely criticizing Israel for its human rights abuses while you just defended Iran? When Israel is light-years ahead of Iran in that sense? Or do you not hold Israel accountable for that?

No, its US hypocripsy. We do it with Pakistan and India also. We talk about disarament, and that nukes in Iran should be relinquished, but we allow Israel to keep these nukes? Please, tell me how that is not hypocripsy. I support Israel's actions, but the fact is, we are occupying that country, but do not remove the nukes in it?

Double standard, right?

Without nukes, Israel wouldn't survive.

Explain? Are you saying if Iran relinquished their nukes, then Iran would fire on them? I highly doubt it, as that would earn them absolute hell.
http://www.edeb8.com...

Edeb8 unofficial champion of team debate bug finding

PM me for questions on campaign http://www.debate.org...
YYW
Posts: 36,392
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/23/2014 4:02:55 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/23/2014 2:13:49 PM, Csareo wrote:
At 5/23/2014 2:06:37 PM, YYW wrote:
At 5/23/2014 2:03:44 PM, Csareo wrote:
At 5/23/2014 2:02:13 PM, YYW wrote:
At 5/23/2014 1:23:59 PM, Csareo wrote:
So, the point I'm getting to, is that if we respect Iran being a republic, than we also need to respect any laws they put in place.

No, we do not.

Then, we should not respect the peoples choice. Enlighten me?

Did the Iranian people decide that public flogging is an acceptable consequence for a woman being kissed on the cheek by a foreign man? No. A barbaric Islamic theocrat or group of barbaric Islamic theocrats made that call.

Did the Iranian people elect the parliament who established these laws? If so, then explain why the democratic institution does not extend to theocratic states? Is it possible, just maybe, that Persians want a Islamic Fascist state?

They are a rather new republic, with a lot of influence from Russia. We need to respect their decisions, but that doesn't mean we should be quiet about them. I encourage activism, just not on the governments behalf.

And I respect no one who uses religion to violate human rights. The Iranian government, and it's disgraceful legal code, use religion to systematically violate human rights. Iran and its legal system will, therefore, not enjoy my respect until they conform to Western standards of respect for human rights and human dignity.

What treaty are they violating? I know they're violating non-proliferation, but I know of no other treaties they're breaking. They have a human development index well above other third world countries, and it raises every year.

Am I saying that Iran doesn't commit human right abuses? No, that's evident enough with their treatment of Bahai tribes. All I'm saying, is that the laws of the people should be respected and tolerated.

Condemn them all you want, but at least they have an institution capable of changing those laws. It works better for everyone if other nations don't get involved in political processes outside their own.

Jif, the legislative process in Iran's not quite like you've described it -and the moral impetus of what I said isn't really undermined by what you've said.
Tsar of DDO
Csareo
Posts: 194
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/23/2014 4:11:32 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/23/2014 4:02:55 PM, YYW wrote:
At 5/23/2014 2:13:49 PM, Csareo wrote:
At 5/23/2014 2:06:37 PM, YYW wrote:
At 5/23/2014 2:03:44 PM, Csareo wrote:
At 5/23/2014 2:02:13 PM, YYW wrote:
At 5/23/2014 1:23:59 PM, Csareo wrote:
So, the point I'm getting to, is that if we respect Iran being a republic, than we also need to respect any laws they put in place.

No, we do not.

Then, we should not respect the peoples choice. Enlighten me?

Did the Iranian people decide that public flogging is an acceptable consequence for a woman being kissed on the cheek by a foreign man? No. A barbaric Islamic theocrat or group of barbaric Islamic theocrats made that call.

Did the Iranian people elect the parliament who established these laws? If so, then explain why the democratic institution does not extend to theocratic states? Is it possible, just maybe, that Persians want a Islamic Fascist state?

They are a rather new republic, with a lot of influence from Russia. We need to respect their decisions, but that doesn't mean we should be quiet about them. I encourage activism, just not on the governments behalf.

And I respect no one who uses religion to violate human rights. The Iranian government, and it's disgraceful legal code, use religion to systematically violate human rights. Iran and its legal system will, therefore, not enjoy my respect until they conform to Western standards of respect for human rights and human dignity.

What treaty are they violating? I know they're violating non-proliferation, but I know of no other treaties they're breaking. They have a human development index well above other third world countries, and it raises every year.

Am I saying that Iran doesn't commit human right abuses? No, that's evident enough with their treatment of Bahai tribes. All I'm saying, is that the laws of the people should be respected and tolerated.

Condemn them all you want, but at least they have an institution capable of changing those laws. It works better for everyone if other nations don't get involved in political processes outside their own.

Jif, the legislative process in Iran's not quite like you've described it -and the moral impetus of what I said isn't really undermined by what you've said.

Explain? Did the people elect the president, yes or no? Did the people elect the legislature, yes or no? Therefore, the people were crucial in the implementation of those laws.

Yes, they have a supreme leader, but from my understanding, he did not create the law you are concerned with. Please prove your resolution still stands
http://www.edeb8.com...

Edeb8 unofficial champion of team debate bug finding

PM me for questions on campaign http://www.debate.org...
Mineva
Posts: 336
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/23/2014 4:13:04 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/23/2014 9:55:21 AM, YYW wrote:

Iran's legal system is barbaric and deranged and Islamic law is an affront to human rights.

I dont think Iran is a muslim state. They have many applications conflicting with Islam.
Csareo
Posts: 194
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/23/2014 4:13:48 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/23/2014 4:13:04 PM, Mineva wrote:
At 5/23/2014 9:55:21 AM, YYW wrote:

Iran's legal system is barbaric and deranged and Islamic law is an affront to human rights.

I dont think Iran is a muslim state. They have many applications conflicting with Islam.

They are an Islamic Democracy. Which means that the legislative process adheres to muslim principles
http://www.edeb8.com...

Edeb8 unofficial champion of team debate bug finding

PM me for questions on campaign http://www.debate.org...
Mineva
Posts: 336
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/23/2014 4:27:43 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/23/2014 4:13:48 PM, Csareo wrote:

They are an Islamic Democracy. Which means that the legislative process adheres to muslim principles

They can claim whatever they want, I can claim whatever I want, you too. But claims are pointless without reality. Also this "islamic democracy" , sounds interesting.
EndarkenedRationalist
Posts: 14,201
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/23/2014 4:49:37 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/23/2014 3:46:35 PM, Csareo wrote:
At 5/23/2014 3:45:35 PM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:
At 5/23/2014 1:44:02 PM, Csareo wrote:
At 5/23/2014 1:41:36 PM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:
At 5/23/2014 1:23:59 PM, Csareo wrote:
At 5/23/2014 9:55:21 AM, YYW wrote:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk...

A red carpet peck on the cheek by Leila Hatami, the Iranian actress at the Cannes Film Festival has been reported to the country"s courts by activists who are seeking a public flogging as punishment for violating Islamic laws.

Iran's legal system is barbaric and deranged and Islamic law is an affront to human rights.

Iran is far ahead of other Islamic states in Human Development, which is why they deserve a break. I can assure you, most of the people there do want Islamic Fascism, so its out duty as advocates of democracy to allow that choice.

For some, Iran is a haven for a greater Islamic empire. Remember that. And don't be fooled, as the western movement has political parties and terrorist groups that seek to install Theological states.

Have you heard of the constitution party? The fourth largest party in membership, in America, is indeed seeking to put the bible in the constitution. Many people want that, especially in the south. I think its time the west acknowledges that. In Afghanistan, the national coalition wants to put a democratic Islamic theocracy state.

Ghandi though, who is a world renowned liberal Afghan-American economist, and recognized political theorist, sounds more attractive to americans than the Islamic Theocracy party, right? Well, he's going to lose, and we need to apply this to Iran. You simply can't have a democracy and expect that to just change the society and culture.

So, the point I'm getting to, is that if we respect Iran being a republic, than we also need to respect any laws they put in place. We can expect reform over time, but crying about how abusive they are, from the policies of a president they elected, is foolish. Most of Iran is pretty nice, and they are content living in such a state.

Oh, but don't get me started on the double standard the US employs on our nuclear policy. We tell Iran to give up the nukes, but we continue to allow Israel to have them? BS

Is this the point to bring up the implied hypocrisy of you likely criticizing Israel for its human rights abuses while you just defended Iran? When Israel is light-years ahead of Iran in that sense? Or do you not hold Israel accountable for that?

No, its US hypocripsy. We do it with Pakistan and India also. We talk about disarament, and that nukes in Iran should be relinquished, but we allow Israel to keep these nukes? Please, tell me how that is not hypocripsy. I support Israel's actions, but the fact is, we are occupying that country, but do not remove the nukes in it?

Double standard, right?

Without nukes, Israel wouldn't survive.

Explain? Are you saying if Iran relinquished their nukes, then Iran would fire on them? I highly doubt it, as that would earn them absolute hell.

Israel is surrounded by enemies on all sides and is thrust into a constant state of near-perpetual war, as everyone around it has happily declared their intentions to wipe Israel off the face of the earth. The reason they haven't attacked is because Israel can defend itself. The US may support Israel, but as the Republican Party self-destructs, that support is waning. Israel's security cannot be entrusted to the US.
HPWKA
Posts: 401
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/23/2014 10:47:56 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Israel is surrounded by enemies on all sides and is thrust into a constant state of near-perpetual war, as everyone around it has happily declared their intentions to wipe Israel off the face of the earth.

Every country in the world, including every Arab/Muslim country, has aligned with the UN for decades, in offering Israel peace, in exchange for the return of stolen Palestinian land. Israel has refused.

If someone attacks me and my home, and refuses to give it back, I will fight them to my last breath, and any self-respecting human being would do the same.

Regardless, Israel has been a co-instigator, if not outright aggressor, in nearly every conflict they've been involved in. If they want peace, they should stop attacking.

Also, the idea that Israel's human rights are significantly, if at all better then Iran's, is laughable.

Finally, IF Iran's system of government is approved by the majority of its people, it ought to be the law of the land, so long as the law doesn't spill into other countries, or incite major international crimes (genocide).
Feelings are the fleeting fancy of fools.
The search for truth in a world of lies is the only thing that matters.
Citrakayah
Posts: 1,500
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/24/2014 12:24:33 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/23/2014 10:47:56 PM, HPWKA wrote:
Finally, IF Iran's system of government is approved by the majority of its people, it ought to be the law of the land, so long as the law doesn't spill into other countries, or incite major international crimes (genocide).

Why?

What is ethical is what is ethical... that doesn't change if a bunch of people decide that randomly killing a bunch of other people is appropriate.
EndarkenedRationalist
Posts: 14,201
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/24/2014 12:28:43 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/23/2014 10:47:56 PM, HPWKA wrote:
Israel is surrounded by enemies on all sides and is thrust into a constant state of near-perpetual war, as everyone around it has happily declared their intentions to wipe Israel off the face of the earth.

Every country in the world, including every Arab/Muslim country, has aligned with the UN for decades, in offering Israel peace, in exchange for the return of stolen Palestinian land. Israel has refused.

I think you'll find this isn't factually accurate.

If someone attacks me and my home, and refuses to give it back, I will fight them to my last breath, and any self-respecting human being would do the same.

Yes. Sure. And it was Israel first, so....

Regardless, Israel has been a co-instigator, if not outright aggressor, in nearly every conflict they've been involved in. If they want peace, they should stop attacking.

Israel is defending itself in many cases while Hamas and other terrorists launch rockets at them. You know Israel warns the targeted area before it bombs them? Guess who doesn't? Hamas and the other terrorists.

Also, the idea that Israel's human rights are significantly, if at all better then Iran's, is laughable.

No. It isn't. Israel shines far above its neighbours in that regard, despite the things it has done,m

Finally, IF Iran's system of government is approved by the majority of its people, it ought to be the law of the land, so long as the law doesn't spill into other countries, or incite major international crimes (genocide).

No. Tyranny of the majority is still tyranny.
HPWKA
Posts: 401
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/24/2014 12:54:57 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Finally, IF Iran's system of government is approved by the majority of its people, it ought to be the law of the land, so long as the law doesn't spill into other countries, or incite major international crimes (genocide).

Why?

What is ethical is what is ethical... that doesn't change if a bunch of people decide that randomly killing a bunch of other people is appropriate.

What is "ethical" is largely determined by the views of a population, and vary across time, political climates, and cultures.. As I alluded to above, the will of a people (some form of majority) should rule, unless, such a will leads to high-level atrocities (genocides).
Feelings are the fleeting fancy of fools.
The search for truth in a world of lies is the only thing that matters.
HPWKA
Posts: 401
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/24/2014 1:08:30 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Every country in the world, including every Arab/Muslim country, has aligned with the UN for decades, in offering Israel peace, in exchange for the return of stolen Palestinian land. Israel has refused.

I think you'll find this isn't factually accurate.

Nearly every Arab/Muslim state has expressed willingness to end the conflict according to the UN and World Court rulings, since 1967. Since 2002, The Arab states and later all 57 Muslims states of the OIC put forth a plan, with the exact stipulations I mention, drawing praise from the entire world, UN, and Human Rights Organizations, ignored in the US, and rejected by Israel. http://en.wikipedia.org...

If someone attacks me and my home, and refuses to give it back, I will fight them to my last breath, and any self-respecting human being would do the same.

Yes. Sure. And it was Israel first, so....

What do you mean? There was no "Israel", until the early 1900's, when the British militarily occupied Palestine, and facilitated the forced colonization of the land with foreign Jews.

Regardless, Israel has been a co-instigator, if not outright aggressor, in nearly every conflict they've been involved in. If they want peace, they should stop attacking.

Israel is defending itself in many cases while Hamas and other terrorists launch rockets at them. You know Israel warns the targeted area before it bombs them? Guess who doesn't? Hamas and the other terrorists.

First off, many Hamas rocket-attacks are in response to prior Israeli aggression (assassination attempts, torturing prisoners, blockading food, air-strikes).

Secondly, so what? Hamas, and any Palestinian, has the right to fight against an illegal occupation, which demolishes Palestinian homes to make way for Jewish-only settlements, has killed thousands of innocents, and ethnically cleanses the native population for foreign colonization.

Israel warned Gaza residents that there would be massive bombings, and then proceeded to close Gaza's borders, and bomb everything in site, including hospitals, mental health clinics, mosques, farms, and UN facilities. I'm sure you would be also singing the praises of the Chinese, if they warned us before they bombed our country.

Also, the idea that Israel's human rights are significantly, if at all better then Iran's, is laughable.

No. It isn't. Israel shines far above its neighbours in that regard, despite the things it has done,m

I'm sure Israel has a better human rights record then some of its neighbors, but also, worse then others.
Feelings are the fleeting fancy of fools.
The search for truth in a world of lies is the only thing that matters.
Mirza
Posts: 16,992
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/24/2014 7:39:02 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/23/2014 9:55:21 AM, YYW wrote:
Islamic law is an affront to human rights.
Islamic Law isn't applied in any country. Remember that it is the case that - almost - only barbaric and backwards societies have the shadow of the ideology implemented as their state law. Had Europe been Islamic, and governed by Islamic Law in modern times, few non-Muslims would see a problem with it. The difference in how they perceive governance, and how Europeans do it, is significantly different. It's rooted in Medieval historicity.
PotBelliedGeek
Posts: 4,298
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/24/2014 10:43:34 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/23/2014 9:55:21 AM, YYW wrote:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk...

A red carpet peck on the cheek by Leila Hatami, the Iranian actress at the Cannes Film Festival has been reported to the country"s courts by activists who are seeking a public flogging as punishment for violating Islamic laws.

Iran's legal system is barbaric and deranged and Islamic law is an affront to human rights.

Iran's legal system is indeed barbaric and deranged. Islamic Law is not.
Religion Forum Ambassador

HUFFLEPUFF FOR LIFE!!!!!!!!!!!!
mendel
Posts: 73
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/25/2014 7:24:34 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/24/2014 7:39:02 PM, Mirza wrote:
At 5/23/2014 9:55:21 AM, YYW wrote:
Islamic law is an affront to human rights.
Islamic Law isn't applied in any country. Remember that it is the case that - almost - only barbaric and backwards societies have the shadow of the ideology implemented as their state law. Had Europe been Islamic, and governed by Islamic Law in modern times, few non-Muslims would see a problem with it. The difference in how they perceive governance, and how Europeans do it, is significantly different. It's rooted in Medieval historicity.

What are you talking about, if we we're governed by Muslim law we would have a huge problem with it. Take this fact for example there were 687 executions in Iran last year, and at least 3 of them were juveniles, most normal people have a problem with that.

When Iran gets up and condemns Israel for their "human rights violations" it's beyond funny it's like Hitler condemning the human rights violations of gangs in Brooklyn.

Iran makes me sick, i feel so bad for this hatimi lady.
mendel
Posts: 73
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/25/2014 8:29:55 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/23/2014 10:47:56 PM, HPWKA wrote:
Israel is surrounded by enemies on all sides and is thrust into a constant state of near-perpetual war, as everyone around it has happily declared their intentions to wipe Israel off the face of the earth.

Every country in the world, including every Arab/Muslim country, has aligned with the UN for decades, in offering Israel peace, in exchange for the return of stolen Palestinian land. Israel has refused.

If someone attacks me and my home, and refuses to give it back, I will fight them to my last breath, and any self-respecting human being would do the same.

Regardless, Israel has been a co-instigator, if not outright aggressor, in nearly every conflict they've been involved in. If they want peace, they should stop attacking.

Also, the idea that Israel's human rights are significantly, if at all better then Iran's, is laughable.

Finally, IF Iran's system of government is approved by the majority of its people, it ought to be the law of the land, so long as the law doesn't spill into other countries, or incite major international crimes (genocide).

Mr. HPWKA apparently you are very passionately against israel, everywhere i turn on this website your attacking israel.

One major aspects of your attacks i noticed are to just talk in broad terms how israel destroys arab villages, practices ethnic cleansing, israel started all the wars if only they would lay down their arms there would be peace in the land bla bla bla.

Now i'm sure you're aware that israel denies these allegations, says they're completely not true. You say their lying, fair enough you can choose to believe what you want. But to officially attack israel you have to actually prove you're case like naming the arab village that was destroyed, like naming the hospital or school that was bombed, like naming the war that israel was the aggressor.

You have to prove that the Israeli military targets civilians, you see just bringing the fact that a few hundred civilians were killed doesn't prove anything, because what you have to calculate is the ratio to the combatants being killed, there is a concept in war called collateral damage, which means that civilians who are around the combatant will be killed (not because they were the target but because they were in the wrong place at the wrong time).

So as a matter of fact, if you would only listen what Israel says about every thing you bring up, you get a whole different picture. You choose to believe the Arab narrative but maybe there lying to you (the same way you say the israelies are lying). So i challenge you like i challenged you before to not discuss generalities and i am confident that i can prove in any particular issue you bring up that it's the Jews who are telling the truth.

Now just to comment on the points you made. You said every Arab country has accepted peace with Israel for decades as they do today if only Israel would give the Palestinians a state. Did i hear you correctly, for decades they have been asking for peace where are you living you mean going to war and calling for the destruction of Israel.

The conference you mentioned they said that a complete withdrawal to the 1967 borders with the return of all the refugees (with all their descendants, about 4,000,000 people) given the right to return and Jerusalem as the Palestinian capital and then there would be peace.

I hope people are intelligent enough to know that this "decision" is an insult to Israeli intelligence. Your enemies who openly, in every level of their society and culture call for israels destruction, have called on Israel to give the Arabs every demand, including the demand of stopping to be the Jewish state and then there will be peace.

There is zero compromise in the deal for starters, secondly there are zero guarantees that we would actually have peace (sorry their word is just not good enough we need the ability to protect ourselves "just in case") and thirdly the Palestinian people have never agreed to live side by side with Israel in peace (Abbas does't speak in the name of anyone when he tells politicians that he recognizes Israels right to exist, the Palestinians could easily vote Hamas in a second (Hamas refused to vote in the summit so as not to even give the appearance of recognizing Israel)). (Not to mention that part of the "deal" was that israel who's officially in a state of war with syria should give up the golan heights, the srategic heights which overlook the whole northern israel, and in the good old days syria rained missiles upon israel from there on a constant basis similar to the situation is gaza where from 2005 until 2012 15,000 rockets were launched at the local towns and cities around gaza, (yeh that was the unprovoked war of 2009 at which point only about 9,000 rockets had been launchedhttp://en.wikipedia.org... )

I think it's quite obvious why Israel reacted to it as they did (quote from the oxford research group "attitudes range between those who have never heard of it, and those who don't believe a word of it.")

Israels primary goal as a normal country, as the main goal should be for any civilized country is to ensure the security of it's citizens, something which unfortunately Israel can't rely on anyone but herself.

I reiterate i will not respond to any generalities i need the name of the town and the exact incident and i'll refute you.
YYW
Posts: 36,392
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/25/2014 9:45:32 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/24/2014 10:43:34 PM, PotBelliedGeek wrote:
At 5/23/2014 9:55:21 AM, YYW wrote:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk...

A red carpet peck on the cheek by Leila Hatami, the Iranian actress at the Cannes Film Festival has been reported to the country"s courts by activists who are seeking a public flogging as punishment for violating Islamic laws.

Iran's legal system is barbaric and deranged and Islamic law is an affront to human rights.

Iran's legal system is indeed barbaric and deranged. Islamic Law is not.

Pots, I mean this in the nicest way... How much do you know about Islamic law?
Tsar of DDO
PotBelliedGeek
Posts: 4,298
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/25/2014 9:52:35 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/25/2014 9:45:32 PM, YYW wrote:
At 5/24/2014 10:43:34 PM, PotBelliedGeek wrote:
At 5/23/2014 9:55:21 AM, YYW wrote:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk...

A red carpet peck on the cheek by Leila Hatami, the Iranian actress at the Cannes Film Festival has been reported to the country"s courts by activists who are seeking a public flogging as punishment for violating Islamic laws.

Iran's legal system is barbaric and deranged and Islamic law is an affront to human rights.

Iran's legal system is indeed barbaric and deranged. Islamic Law is not.

Pots, I mean this in the nicest way... How much do you know about Islamic law?

Kind of... a lot. I dare say I know more about islamic law than anyone else on the site.
Religion Forum Ambassador

HUFFLEPUFF FOR LIFE!!!!!!!!!!!!
PotBelliedGeek
Posts: 4,298
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/25/2014 9:58:58 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/25/2014 9:52:35 PM, PotBelliedGeek wrote:
At 5/25/2014 9:45:32 PM, YYW wrote:
At 5/24/2014 10:43:34 PM, PotBelliedGeek wrote:
At 5/23/2014 9:55:21 AM, YYW wrote:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk...

A red carpet peck on the cheek by Leila Hatami, the Iranian actress at the Cannes Film Festival has been reported to the country"s courts by activists who are seeking a public flogging as punishment for violating Islamic laws.

Iran's legal system is barbaric and deranged and Islamic law is an affront to human rights.

Iran's legal system is indeed barbaric and deranged. Islamic Law is not.

Pots, I mean this in the nicest way... How much do you know about Islamic law?

Kind of... a lot. I dare say I know more about islamic law than anyone else on the site.

I really dont mean to toot my own horn here, but I spent the majority of my teenage years in Saudi Arabia pursuing various degrees on the subject. I only got into science about two years ago. I can list my credentials on the subject, but I hope that isnt necessary.
Religion Forum Ambassador

HUFFLEPUFF FOR LIFE!!!!!!!!!!!!