Total Posts:12|Showing Posts:1-12
Jump to topic:

Constitutional Amendment

TheYummyCod
Posts: 14
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/18/2014 6:43:16 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
I want to see what you guys think of the text of these nice, little amendments. I'm not making a stance in the affirmative or the negative on any of these, I just want to see the discussion. Feel free to only comment on the ones you wish, I just want to see reactions, and what you guys can conjure in favor or against.

Meanwhile, I'll be eating popcorn.

1. No regulation, ordinance, or other rule issued as anything but an act of Congress shall have the force of law on the general public, but may be applied only to the executive branch and the carrying out of its duties.

2. The people shall be secure against general and pervasive surveillance in private and public places, whether done by government actors, that has a chilling effect[1] on their private and civic activities, without an issued warrant.

3. The Sixteenth Amendment to the Constitution of the United States is hereby repealed.

4. Article I Section 8 Clause 18 of this Constitution shall be construed to include only enablement of the completion of duties by duly elected or appointed officials, to make a limited, reasonable effort strictly necessary to exercise an express power narrowly construed, and not to go beyond completion of the duty or to do whatever might be deemed convenient to get an outcome or result for which the effort might be made.

5. The term "general welfare" in Article I, Section 8, shall be construed only as being tangentially tied to one of the other specifically enumerated powers, such as, but not limited to, regulating interstate or foreign commerce, or providing for the military. The general welfare clause is not a specific grant of power, but a statement of purpose qualifying the power to tax.

6. Government shall exercise no power in ways designed or intended to burden or benefit one part of the population over another, except in minor ways incidental to the proper exercise of delegated powers.

7. In this Constitution all rights are immunities against the action of government officials, not entitlements to receive some service or benefit. Every immunity is a restriction on delegated powers, and every delegated power is a restriction on immunities. Delegated powers and immunities partition the space of public action. The exercise of a right is not subject to regulation, except to allocate use of a scarce resource, or to taxation, and only to insignificant incidental burdens by government actions at any level, unless there is an explicit exception to the contrary, in this Constitution.

8. The Tenth Amendment to the Constitution shall be construed as literal in meaning. If the Constitution does not strictly delegate a power to the federal government, then it is a power delegated to the states.

9. No warrant shall be issued except by a court of competent jurisdiction.

10. In all trials in which there are mixed questions of law and fact, including all criminal jury trials, and all jury trials in which government officials or agents, whether general, state, or local, shall be a party, parties shall have the right not to have decisions by the bench on questions of law made before all arguments can be made before the jury, excepting only arguments on defense motions in limine[2]. Jurors shall receive copies of all applicable laws, statutes, constitutions, precedents, and legal arguments, including those of amici curiae[3].

11. No international treaties, international laws, or governing authorities outside of the United States may have authority upon domestic law within the United States.

Terms:
[1] Chilling effect is the legal term for an ordinance which would make citizens afraid of exercising their inherent rights, for example, freedom of speech.

[2] Motions in limine withhold evidence from a jury which would make them inherently biased against a defendant. For example, a motion in limine could be applied to prevent a jury from knowing that the defendant is a devil-worshipper.

[3] Look it up in a law book.

________________________________

Okay, let the storms begin!

This is not inherently a debate thread. Give your opinion on one, two, or all of these, and try not to slander others whom you disagree with.

I appreciate it,

--The Yummy Cod
"Don't expect to build up the weak by pulling down the strong." ~Calvin Coolidge
EndarkenedRationalist
Posts: 14,201
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/20/2014 12:13:47 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/18/2014 6:43:16 PM, TheYummyCod wrote:
I want to see what you guys think of the text of these nice, little amendments. I'm not making a stance in the affirmative or the negative on any of these, I just want to see the discussion. Feel free to only comment on the ones you wish, I just want to see reactions, and what you guys can conjure in favor or against.

Meanwhile, I'll be eating popcorn.

1. No regulation, ordinance, or other rule issued as anything but an act of Congress shall have the force of law on the general public, but may be applied only to the executive branch and the carrying out of its duties.

Pretty much guaranteed to destroy what little efficiency the US government has.

2. The people shall be secure against general and pervasive surveillance in private and public places, whether done by government actors, that has a chilling effect[1] on their private and civic activities, without an issued warrant.

3. The Sixteenth Amendment to the Constitution of the United States is hereby repealed.

Well, there goes the economy.

4. Article I Section 8 Clause 18 of this Constitution shall be construed to include only enablement of the completion of duties by duly elected or appointed officials, to make a limited, reasonable effort strictly necessary to exercise an express power narrowly construed, and not to go beyond completion of the duty or to do whatever might be deemed convenient to get an outcome or result for which the effort might be made.

5. The term "general welfare" in Article I, Section 8, shall be construed only as being tangentially tied to one of the other specifically enumerated powers, such as, but not limited to, regulating interstate or foreign commerce, or providing for the military. The general welfare clause is not a specific grant of power, but a statement of purpose qualifying the power to tax.

6. Government shall exercise no power in ways designed or intended to burden or benefit one part of the population over another, except in minor ways incidental to the proper exercise of delegated powers.

This is absurd as written. The entire concept of prison burdens one part of the population (the incarcerated) over another, and not in a minor way.

7. In this Constitution all rights are immunities against the action of government officials, not entitlements to receive some service or benefit. Every immunity is a restriction on delegated powers, and every delegated power is a restriction on immunities. Delegated powers and immunities partition the space of public action. The exercise of a right is not subject to regulation, except to allocate use of a scarce resource, or to taxation, and only to insignificant incidental burdens by government actions at any level, unless there is an explicit exception to the contrary, in this Constitution.

More negative rights! More negative rights! More negative rights!

8. The Tenth Amendment to the Constitution shall be construed as literal in meaning. If the Constitution does not strictly delegate a power to the federal government, then it is a power delegated to the states.

Funny now everyone points out the 10th Amendment but forgets the entire concept of implied powers.

9. No warrant shall be issued except by a court of competent jurisdiction.

10. In all trials in which there are mixed questions of law and fact, including all criminal jury trials, and all jury trials in which government officials or agents, whether general, state, or local, shall be a party, parties shall have the right not to have decisions by the bench on questions of law made before all arguments can be made before the jury, excepting only arguments on defense motions in limine[2]. Jurors shall receive copies of all applicable laws, statutes, constitutions, precedents, and legal arguments, including those of amici curiae[3].

11. No international treaties, international laws, or governing authorities outside of the United States may have authority upon domestic law within the United States

I think this one needs clarification.

Terms:
[1] Chilling effect is the legal term for an ordinance which would make citizens afraid of exercising their inherent rights, for example, freedom of speech.

[2] Motions in limine withhold evidence from a jury which would make them inherently biased against a defendant. For example, a motion in limine could be applied to prevent a jury from knowing that the defendant is a devil-worshipper.

[3] Look it up in a law book.

________________________________

Okay, let the storms begin!

This is not inherently a debate thread. Give your opinion on one, two, or all of these, and try not to slander others whom you disagree with.

I appreciate it,

--The Yummy Cod
TheYummyCod
Posts: 14
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/20/2014 6:18:55 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
Lol.

As a note, "minor ways incidental to the proper exercise of power" on #6 includes prisons.

But yea, thanks for your input.
"Don't expect to build up the weak by pulling down the strong." ~Calvin Coolidge
slo1
Posts: 4,354
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/20/2014 7:10:34 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/18/2014 6:43:16 PM, TheYummyCod wrote:
I want to see what you guys think of the text of these nice, little amendments. I'm not making a stance in the affirmative or the negative on any of these, I just want to see the discussion. Feel free to only comment on the ones you wish, I just want to see reactions, and what you guys can conjure in favor or against.

Meanwhile, I'll be eating popcorn.

1. No regulation, ordinance, or other rule issued as anything but an act of Congress shall have the force of law on the general public, but may be applied only to the executive branch and the carrying out of its duties.

You just eliminated the power of local governance, such as city codes. I don't think conservatives like that because the little birches couldn't make a law like in my city that disallows selling of liquor. I could buy liquor close to home though, so why the h not.


2. The people shall be secure against general and pervasive surveillance in private and public places, whether done by government actors, that has a chilling effect[1] on their private and civic activities, without an issued warrant.

3. The Sixteenth Amendment to the Constitution of the United States is hereby repealed.

4. Article I Section 8 Clause 18 of this Constitution shall be construed to include only enablement of the completion of duties by duly elected or appointed officials, to make a limited, reasonable effort strictly necessary to exercise an express power narrowly construed, and not to go beyond completion of the duty or to do whatever might be deemed convenient to get an outcome or result for which the effort might be made.

5. The term "general welfare" in Article I, Section 8, shall be construed only as being tangentially tied to one of the other specifically enumerated powers, such as, but not limited to, regulating interstate or foreign commerce, or providing for the military. The general welfare clause is not a specific grant of power, but a statement of purpose qualifying the power to tax.

6. Government shall exercise no power in ways designed or intended to burden or benefit one part of the population over another, except in minor ways incidental to the proper exercise of delegated powers.

7. In this Constitution all rights are immunities against the action of government officials, not entitlements to receive some service or benefit. Every immunity is a restriction on delegated powers, and every delegated power is a restriction on immunities. Delegated powers and immunities partition the space of public action. The exercise of a right is not subject to regulation, except to allocate use of a scarce resource, or to taxation, and only to insignificant incidental burdens by government actions at any level, unless there is an explicit exception to the contrary, in this Constitution.

8. The Tenth Amendment to the Constitution shall be construed as literal in meaning. If the Constitution does not strictly delegate a power to the federal government, then it is a power delegated to the states.

9. No warrant shall be issued except by a court of competent jurisdiction.

10. In all trials in which there are mixed questions of law and fact, including all criminal jury trials, and all jury trials in which government officials or agents, whether general, state, or local, shall be a party, parties shall have the right not to have decisions by the bench on questions of law made before all arguments can be made before the jury, excepting only arguments on defense motions in limine[2]. Jurors shall receive copies of all applicable laws, statutes, constitutions, precedents, and legal arguments, including those of amici curiae[3].

11. No international treaties, international laws, or governing authorities outside of the United States may have authority upon domestic law within the United States.

Terms:
[1] Chilling effect is the legal term for an ordinance which would make citizens afraid of exercising their inherent rights, for example, freedom of speech.

[2] Motions in limine withhold evidence from a jury which would make them inherently biased against a defendant. For example, a motion in limine could be applied to prevent a jury from knowing that the defendant is a devil-worshipper.

[3] Look it up in a law book.

________________________________

Okay, let the storms begin!

This is not inherently a debate thread. Give your opinion on one, two, or all of these, and try not to slander others whom you disagree with.

I appreciate it,

--The Yummy Cod
TheYummyCod
Posts: 14
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/20/2014 9:58:14 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
Thanks for your input!

Since the U.S. Constitution doesn't apply directly to local governments, except in the areas where courts have ruled it must be enforced, I don't think that will be too much of an issue. :)
"Don't expect to build up the weak by pulling down the strong." ~Calvin Coolidge
TN05
Posts: 4,492
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/20/2014 10:55:09 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/18/2014 6:43:16 PM, TheYummyCod
8. The Tenth Amendment to the Constitution shall be construed as literal in meaning. If the Constitution does not strictly delegate a power to the federal government, then it is a power delegated to the states.

Fail interpretation of the 10th. It doesn't give unlimited power to the states, it reserves powers not mentioned in the Constitution for the states or people. By ignoring the latter, you've granted states the power to do literally whatever they want with almost no checks.
slo1
Posts: 4,354
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/20/2014 1:28:28 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
2. The people shall be secure against general and pervasive surveillance in private and public places, whether done by government actors, that has a chilling effect[1] on their private and civic activities, without an issued warrant.

Don't care for the definition of "chilling effect". Leaves too much open for abuse. I

E: Is mass collection of personal data with a promise to not look at it unless one is a terrorist a chilling effect when a majority don't care because they still can express their freedom of speech and feel there is no immediate threat of such program
slo1
Posts: 4,354
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/20/2014 4:19:10 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/20/2014 9:58:14 AM, TheYummyCod wrote:
Thanks for your input!

Since the U.S. Constitution doesn't apply directly to local governments, except in the areas where courts have ruled it must be enforced, I don't think that will be too much of an issue. :)

It certainly trumps local government where expressly written and local law can not contradict federal law. Ultimately saying nobody but US congress can write law means nobody but US congress can write a law.
TN05
Posts: 4,492
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/20/2014 4:34:10 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/20/2014 4:19:10 PM, slo1 wrote:
At 6/20/2014 9:58:14 AM, TheYummyCod wrote:
Thanks for your input!

Since the U.S. Constitution doesn't apply directly to local governments, except in the areas where courts have ruled it must be enforced, I don't think that will be too much of an issue. :)

It certainly trumps local government where expressly written and local law can not contradict federal law. Ultimately saying nobody but US congress can write law means nobody but US congress can write a law.

It would also make state legislatures unable to pass laws.
slo1
Posts: 4,354
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/20/2014 4:34:20 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
6. Government shall exercise no power in ways designed or intended to burden or benefit one part of the population over another, except in minor ways incidental to the proper exercise of delegated powers.

What are some examples of "minor ways incidental incidental to the proper exercise of delegated powers"?
TheYummyCod
Posts: 14
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/20/2014 5:08:38 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/20/2014 4:19:10 PM, slo1 wrote:
At 6/20/2014 9:58:14 AM, TheYummyCod wrote:
Thanks for your input!

Since the U.S. Constitution doesn't apply directly to local governments, except in the areas where courts have ruled it must be enforced, I don't think that will be too much of an issue. :)

It certainly trumps local government where expressly written and local law can not contradict federal law. Ultimately saying nobody but US congress can write law means nobody but US congress can write a law.

Federal law. The Constitution is a guideline that federal laws must follow, rather than a guideline for all laws.

Federal law: Applies to everyone.

Constitution: Only applies to the Federal Government and the carrying out of its duties, unless specifically stated otherwise by a court.
"Don't expect to build up the weak by pulling down the strong." ~Calvin Coolidge
EndarkenedRationalist
Posts: 14,201
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/20/2014 10:15:48 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/20/2014 5:08:38 PM, TheYummyCod wrote:
At 6/20/2014 4:19:10 PM, slo1 wrote:
At 6/20/2014 9:58:14 AM, TheYummyCod wrote:
Thanks for your input!

Since the U.S. Constitution doesn't apply directly to local governments, except in the areas where courts have ruled it must be enforced, I don't think that will be too much of an issue. :)

It certainly trumps local government where expressly written and local law can not contradict federal law. Ultimately saying nobody but US congress can write law means nobody but US congress can write a law.

Federal law. The Constitution is a guideline that federal laws must follow, rather than a guideline for all laws.

Federal law: Applies to everyone.

Constitution: Only applies to the Federal Government and the carrying out of its duties, unless specifically stated otherwise by a court.

And that's why the Bill of Rights has been just about nationalised. Peoples seem to forget that a state government is just as capable of exploiting liberty as the federal government.