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US terrorism policy

ChosenWolff
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7/8/2014 8:36:09 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
How does it work? For example, Al Qaeda are designated terrorists, but the Taliban aren't (the republicans think differently)? Would someone mind explaining how the US decides who's a terrorist or not?
How about NO elections?

#onlyonedeb8
HPWKA
Posts: 401
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7/8/2014 8:42:13 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
If you're actions align with US interests, you are a freedom fighter or a rebel.

If they don't, you are a terrorist or radical militant.
Feelings are the fleeting fancy of fools.
The search for truth in a world of lies is the only thing that matters.
ChosenWolff
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7/9/2014 12:22:06 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/8/2014 8:42:13 PM, HPWKA wrote:
If you're actions align with US interests, you are a freedom fighter or a rebel.
The Taliban align with US interests?

If they don't, you are a terrorist or radical militant.
This used to be the case, but I don't think that holds true after Bush. If so, then Al Nusra wouldn't be designated terrorists.
How about NO elections?

#onlyonedeb8
Dazz
Posts: 1,163
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7/9/2014 7:22:18 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/8/2014 8:36:09 PM, ChosenWolff wrote:
How does it work? For example, Al Qaeda are designated terrorists, but the Taliban aren't (the republicans think differently)? Would someone mind explaining how the US decides who's a terrorist or not?

When you can't figure out your present enemies, find out the future ones. So leave this dogma, just try to sense the future fear, a (prospect) Terrorist is the one who has more resources to exercise the terrorism. US terrorism policy is same as its military budget policy is.
Remove the "I want", remainder is the "peace". ~Al-Ghazali~
"This time will also pass", a dose to cure both; the excitement & the grievance. ~Ayaz~
Praesentya
Posts: 195
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7/9/2014 8:16:49 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter.

Not sure where you are getting your information, both al Qaeda and the Taliban have always been regarded as terrorist groups and have been hunted down as such.

The United States is selective about who it chooses to persecute, generally they only choose targets who constitute a legitimate threat to our interests.
Contra
Posts: 3,941
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7/9/2014 11:24:35 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/8/2014 8:36:09 PM, ChosenWolff wrote:
How does it work? For example, Al Qaeda are designated terrorists, but the Taliban aren't (the republicans think differently)? Would someone mind explaining how the US decides who's a terrorist or not?

The Secretary of State prepares a detailed administrative file based upon which non-USA organizations have been engaged in terrorist activities. The groups that "make the cut" are designated as terrorist organizations.

Also, the Taliban is designated as a terrorist group (http://en.wikipedia.org...) (http://www.state.gov...). After the Afghanistan War started, Taliban was pushed out of Afghanistan and mostly into the mountainous regions of Pakistan, hence the name.
"The solution [for Republicans] is to admit that Bush was a bad president, stop this racist homophobic stuff, stop trying to give most of the tax cuts to the rich, propose a real alternative to Obamacare that actually works, and propose smart free market solutions to our economic problems." - Distraff

"Americans are better off in a dynamic, free-enterprise-based economy that fosters economic growth, opportunity and upward mobility." - Paul Ryan
ChosenWolff
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7/9/2014 1:18:39 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/9/2014 11:24:35 AM, Contra wrote:
Also, the Taliban is designated as a terrorist group (http://en.wikipedia.org...) (http://www.state.gov...). After the Afghanistan War started, Taliban was pushed out of Afghanistan and mostly into the mountainous regions of Pakistan, hence the name.
The Tenrik-I-Taliban are the Pakistani Taliban. I am referring to the Taliban in northern Afghanistan and Syria. I understand why the Tenrik-I-Taliban are designated terrorists, but not really the main body.
How about NO elections?

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Praesentya
Posts: 195
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7/9/2014 2:26:04 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
The Tenrik-I-Taliban are the Pakistani Taliban. I am referring to the Taliban in northern Afghanistan and Syria. I understand why the Tenrik-I-Taliban are designated terrorists, but not really the main body.

The term Taliban has been used by the Defense Department to encompass the entire political militant group in the region. Anyone under this umbrella term has been persecuted by the United States since 9/11. The only reason that you have heard the term 'Tehrik-i-Taliban Pakistan' is because, as their name suggests, they are the Taliban within Pakistan. They have a close relationship with the Taliban parties elsewhere in the region, but the United States was unable to persecute them until recently as the Pakistani government was refusing to allow US troops into the tribal zone between Pakistan and Afghanistan, where many of them reside.

The entire political/military organization under the name 'Taliban' is regarded as a terrorist organization. If you have sources saying otherwise, I would be very interested to see what they have to say and where they came from.
ChosenWolff
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7/9/2014 2:40:24 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/9/2014 2:26:04 PM, Praesentya wrote:
The Tenrik-I-Taliban are the Pakistani Taliban. I am referring to the Taliban in northern Afghanistan and Syria. I understand why the Tenrik-I-Taliban are designated terrorists, but not really the main body.

The term Taliban has been used by the Defense Department to encompass the entire political militant group in the region. Anyone under this umbrella term has been persecuted by the United States since 9/11. The only reason that you have heard the term 'Tehrik-i-Taliban Pakistan' is because, as their name suggests, they are the Taliban within Pakistan. They have a close relationship with the Taliban parties elsewhere in the region, but the United States was unable to persecute them until recently as the Pakistani government was refusing to allow US troops into the tribal zone between Pakistan and Afghanistan, where many of them reside.

The entire political/military organization under the name 'Taliban' is regarded as a terrorist organization. If you have sources saying otherwise, I would be very interested to see what they have to say and where they came from.
Actually, the taliban is one entire body in Afghanistan. At least the main umbrella organization. It's sort of like Al Qaeda. They have an umbrella organization, that controls a dozen different terrorist groups.
How about NO elections?

#onlyonedeb8
Contra
Posts: 3,941
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7/9/2014 2:42:58 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/9/2014 1:18:39 PM, ChosenWolff wrote:
At 7/9/2014 11:24:35 AM, Contra wrote:
Also, the Taliban is designated as a terrorist group (http://en.wikipedia.org...) (http://www.state.gov...). After the Afghanistan War started, Taliban was pushed out of Afghanistan and mostly into the mountainous regions of Pakistan, hence the name.
The Tenrik-I-Taliban are the Pakistani Taliban. I am referring to the Taliban in northern Afghanistan and Syria. I understand why the Tenrik-I-Taliban are designated terrorists, but not really the main body.

The Pakistani Taliban -- the Tenrik-l-Taliban -- does appear to be a different group. After looking up some information, the Taliban does commit acts of terrorism in Afghanistan (and probably elsewhere in the region) (http://en.wikipedia.org...).

The State Department hasn't labeled the Taliban a terrorist organization because "[it] does not want to ruin its chances for some type of rapprochement with the more moderate parts of the Taliban". Labeling the Taliban as a terrorist group would preclude the chance of negotiation and more diplomacy (http://dailycaller.com...).
"The solution [for Republicans] is to admit that Bush was a bad president, stop this racist homophobic stuff, stop trying to give most of the tax cuts to the rich, propose a real alternative to Obamacare that actually works, and propose smart free market solutions to our economic problems." - Distraff

"Americans are better off in a dynamic, free-enterprise-based economy that fosters economic growth, opportunity and upward mobility." - Paul Ryan
Contra
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7/9/2014 2:45:33 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/9/2014 2:40:24 PM, ChosenWolff wrote:
At 7/9/2014 2:26:04 PM, Praesentya wrote:
The Tenrik-I-Taliban are the Pakistani Taliban. I am referring to the Taliban in northern Afghanistan and Syria. I understand why the Tenrik-I-Taliban are designated terrorists, but not really the main body.

The term Taliban has been used by the Defense Department to encompass the entire political militant group in the region. Anyone under this umbrella term has been persecuted by the United States since 9/11. The only reason that you have heard the term 'Tehrik-i-Taliban Pakistan' is because, as their name suggests, they are the Taliban within Pakistan. They have a close relationship with the Taliban parties elsewhere in the region, but the United States was unable to persecute them until recently as the Pakistani government was refusing to allow US troops into the tribal zone between Pakistan and Afghanistan, where many of them reside.

The entire political/military organization under the name 'Taliban' is regarded as a terrorist organization. If you have sources saying otherwise, I would be very interested to see what they have to say and where they came from.
Actually, the taliban is one entire body in Afghanistan. At least the main umbrella organization. It's sort of like Al Qaeda. They have an umbrella organization, that controls a dozen different terrorist groups.

Do you happen to have a list of these terrorist groups... out of curiosity?
"The solution [for Republicans] is to admit that Bush was a bad president, stop this racist homophobic stuff, stop trying to give most of the tax cuts to the rich, propose a real alternative to Obamacare that actually works, and propose smart free market solutions to our economic problems." - Distraff

"Americans are better off in a dynamic, free-enterprise-based economy that fosters economic growth, opportunity and upward mobility." - Paul Ryan
ChosenWolff
Posts: 3,361
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7/9/2014 2:45:38 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/9/2014 2:42:58 PM, Contra wrote:
The State Department hasn't labeled the Taliban a terrorist organization because "[it] does not want to ruin its chances for some type of rapprochement with the more moderate parts of the Taliban". Labeling the Taliban as a terrorist group would preclude the chance of negotiation and more diplomacy (http://dailycaller.com...).
Ok, that makes much more sense. I have always reasoned on those same lines. There are extremist elements and moderate elements to the group. I have always viewed them as more of a rebel group rather than the classic "terrorist" which is being used far to often as a scape goat. It is good that the Taliban opened a embassy up in Dubai, so that should be a start. Any thoughts on them converting to a political party, or would the US restrict that?
How about NO elections?

#onlyonedeb8
ChosenWolff
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7/9/2014 2:46:43 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/9/2014 2:45:33 PM, Contra wrote:
Do you happen to have a list of these terrorist groups... out of curiosity?
I already knew about this (get daily emails from the US state department ), but here is a list
http://en.wikipedia.org...
How about NO elections?

#onlyonedeb8
Praesentya
Posts: 195
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7/9/2014 2:51:31 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Actually, the taliban is one entire body in Afghanistan. At least the main umbrella organization. It's sort of like Al Qaeda. They have an umbrella organization, that controls a dozen different terrorist groups.

Again, I have no idea where you are getting your information, but to clarify - the Taliban is regarded as a terrorist group. If you have sources arguing otherwise, they are most likely misleading.

The Taliban and al Qaeda are nothing alike. Al Qaeda is not an 'umbrella organization' at all, it is highly selective and highly secretive.
ChosenWolff
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7/9/2014 2:54:13 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/9/2014 2:51:31 PM, Praesentya wrote:
Actually, the taliban is one entire body in Afghanistan. At least the main umbrella organization. It's sort of like Al Qaeda. They have an umbrella organization, that controls a dozen different terrorist groups.

Again, I have no idea where you are getting your information, but to clarify - the Taliban is regarded as a terrorist group. If you have sources arguing otherwise, they are most likely misleading.

The Taliban and al Qaeda are nothing alike. Al Qaeda is not an 'umbrella organization' at all, it is highly selective and highly secretive.

I'm telling you. The state department hasn't designated the Taliban as terrorists. Read this article. The only nation that labels them terrorists is Russia.
http://humanevents.com...
How about NO elections?

#onlyonedeb8
ChosenWolff
Posts: 3,361
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7/9/2014 2:56:59 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Praesentya, you can deny it all you want, but the state department hasn't listed the Afghan taliban as terrorists. We have a diplomatic embassy with them in Dubai,
How about NO elections?

#onlyonedeb8
CJKAllstar
Posts: 408
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7/9/2014 2:59:47 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/9/2014 2:46:43 PM, ChosenWolff wrote:
At 7/9/2014 2:45:33 PM, Contra wrote:
Do you happen to have a list of these terrorist groups... out of curiosity?
I already knew about this (get daily emails from the US state department ), but here is a list
http://en.wikipedia.org...

Wait what? How?
"Political language... is designed to make lies sound truthful and murder respectable, and to give an appearance of solidity to pure wind." - George Orwell
ChosenWolff
Posts: 3,361
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7/9/2014 3:02:07 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/9/2014 2:59:47 PM, CJKAllstar wrote:
Wait what? How?
It's a public service provided by the US departments. There are dozens which aren't listed, but for the most part, you can subscribe to any government bureau for daily updates. Be careful, some subscriptions send about 5 a day.
https://public.govdelivery.com...
How about NO elections?

#onlyonedeb8
CJKAllstar
Posts: 408
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7/9/2014 3:03:02 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/9/2014 3:02:07 PM, ChosenWolff wrote:
At 7/9/2014 2:59:47 PM, CJKAllstar wrote:
Wait what? How?
It's a public service provided by the US departments. There are dozens which aren't listed, but for the most part, you can subscribe to any government bureau for daily updates. Be careful, some subscriptions send about 5 a day.
https://public.govdelivery.com...

Doing that now for U.S and U.K. Thanks.
"Political language... is designed to make lies sound truthful and murder respectable, and to give an appearance of solidity to pure wind." - George Orwell
ChosenWolff
Posts: 3,361
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7/9/2014 3:04:21 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/9/2014 3:03:02 PM, CJKAllstar wrote:
Doing that now for U.S and U.K. Thanks.
Sorry, that was the wrong site. Those are different subscriptions. There's another one where you can get updates from the US departments. I'm looking for it.
How about NO elections?

#onlyonedeb8
Praesentya
Posts: 195
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7/9/2014 3:24:13 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/9/2014 2:56:59 PM, ChosenWolff wrote:
Praesentya, you can deny it all you want, but the state department hasn't listed the Afghan taliban as terrorists. We have a diplomatic embassy with them in Dubai,

The link you posted [ http://humanevents.com... ] is a conservative news network aimed at slandering Hilary Clinton. The article does cite sources, but deliberately leaves out information from those sources to make its argument.

This is the State Department's list of recognized terrorist organizations, the Taliban are on that list - http://www.state.gov...

As for Dubai, no, we don't. According to what information I could find, Afghan gov't officials have met with Taliban commanders in Dubai, but the US hardly 'shares an embassy with them.'

Bear in mind the State Department is not the only government group protecting our national security, I'd urge you to look into how the Defense Department has labelled and dealt with individuals associated with the Taliban.
ChosenWolff
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7/9/2014 4:31:51 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/9/2014 3:24:13 PM, Praesentya wrote:
Look, until the US state department designates them terrorists, they are not terrorists. You're being a bit of a moron. Can YOU provide me a source that they're designated terrorists?
How about NO elections?

#onlyonedeb8
Praesentya
Posts: 195
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7/9/2014 4:47:53 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
"Look, until the US state department designates them terrorists, they are not terrorists. "

Right, because no one could possibly be a terrorist without getting the approval of the state department.

"You're being a bit of a moron."

Strong argument. You're not the first person to assert his immaturity when losing an argument...

"Can YOU provide me a source that they're designated terrorists?"

Please read the links I have provided in my previous arguments. I have already provided a source directly from the State Department. You can choose to ignore my sources, and not provide any of your own; though it will only make your derogatory comment about my intelligence seem hypocritical.
ChosenWolff
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7/9/2014 5:49:16 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/9/2014 4:47:53 PM, Praesentya wrote:
You're missing the point. The US government, no matter what you attempt to claim, has not designated the Taliban as terrorists. We utilize an embassy with them in Dubai, and regularly talk to their leaders. Officially, the Afghan Taliban are not terrorists (which is why we can't use drones on them anymore). Certain military and security actions that we can use on terrorists aren't allowed on the terrorists.

Can you show me a source where the US designates the terrorists?
How about NO elections?

#onlyonedeb8
Praesentya
Posts: 195
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7/9/2014 5:55:46 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/9/2014 5:49:16 PM, ChosenWolff wrote:
At 7/9/2014 4:47:53 PM, Praesentya wrote:
You're missing the point. The US government, no matter what you attempt to claim, has not designated the Taliban as terrorists. We utilize an embassy with them in Dubai, and regularly talk to their leaders. Officially, the Afghan Taliban are not terrorists (which is why we can't use drones on them anymore). Certain military and security actions that we can use on terrorists aren't allowed on the terrorists.

Can you show me a source where the US designates the terrorists?

ChosenWolff... I am being as simple as possible now, please take into account what I am posting, instead of insulting my intelligence.

1. I have now provided the link twice on this page alone where the State Department labels the Taliban as terrorists, please review that link.

2. Please post a source to prove this embassy in Dubai which is utilized by the Americans and members of the Taliban actually exists. I am not saying it doesn't, I just want you to support your argument.

3. Unless you are in the CIA - which you would not be able to confirm over this site - you aren't aware of the drone policy in place.

4. "Certain military and security actions that we can use on terrorists aren't allowed on the terrorists." Please elaborate.
ChosenWolff
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7/9/2014 6:19:50 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/9/2014 5:55:46 PM, Praesentya wrote:
No, I've given you sources. It;s time for you to prove that the taliban are designated terrorists. They aren't, so you're grasping at air for an argument that they are. Point remains, they aren't designated terrorists, and certain terrorist policies don't apply to them. Want to prove me wrong? SHOW ME A SOURCE!!!!!!........ but you can't, so I'll call it a day. BTW, I was wrong, it's in Qatar, not Dubai
http://www.bbc.com...
How about NO elections?

#onlyonedeb8
Praesentya
Posts: 195
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7/9/2014 6:33:58 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/9/2014 6:19:50 PM, ChosenWolff wrote:
At 7/9/2014 5:55:46 PM, Praesentya wrote:
No, I've given you sources. It;s time for you to prove that the taliban are designated terrorists. They aren't, so you're grasping at air for an argument that they are. Point remains, they aren't designated terrorists, and certain terrorist policies don't apply to them. Want to prove me wrong? SHOW ME A SOURCE!!!!!!........ but you can't, so I'll call it a day. BTW, I was wrong, it's in Qatar, not Dubai
http://www.bbc.com...

I have shown you a source twice already. If you can't read the posts, not my problem.

Again, you can't show me what policies you're talking about...

Thank you for acknowledging you were incorrect.
ChosenWolff
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7/9/2014 7:46:39 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/9/2014 6:33:58 PM, Praesentya wrote:
Thank you for acknowledging you were incorrect.
I acknowledged nothing of the sort. Let me explain to you something, very clearly. The Tenrik-I-Taliban and the Afghan Taliban are different organizations. The Afghan Taiban are not listed as terrorists.,
How about NO elections?

#onlyonedeb8
wrichcirw
Posts: 11,196
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7/10/2014 1:30:57 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/9/2014 4:31:51 PM, ChosenWolff wrote:
At 7/9/2014 3:24:13 PM, Praesentya wrote:
Look, until the US state department designates them terrorists, they are not terrorists. You're being a bit of a moron. Can YOU provide me a source that they're designated terrorists?

I think you've made your point, that the Tehrik-e Taliban Pakistan is not necessarily the umbrella organization "Taliban", but there's simply no need to insult your counterparty in this discussion.
At 8/9/2013 9:41:24 AM, wrichcirw wrote:
If you are civil with me, I will be civil to you. If you decide to bring unreasonable animosity to bear in a reasonable discussion, then what would you expect other than to get flustered?
Contra
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7/11/2014 4:42:19 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/9/2014 2:46:43 PM, ChosenWolff wrote:
At 7/9/2014 2:45:33 PM, Contra wrote:
Do you happen to have a list of these terrorist groups... out of curiosity?
I already knew about this (get daily emails from the US state department ), but here is a list
http://en.wikipedia.org...

I should have specified... I meant do you know which organizations are controlled by the Taliban, because you said the Taliban is an "umbrella organization"?
"The solution [for Republicans] is to admit that Bush was a bad president, stop this racist homophobic stuff, stop trying to give most of the tax cuts to the rich, propose a real alternative to Obamacare that actually works, and propose smart free market solutions to our economic problems." - Distraff

"Americans are better off in a dynamic, free-enterprise-based economy that fosters economic growth, opportunity and upward mobility." - Paul Ryan