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Crist May Run as an Independent

Volkov
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2/25/2010 8:57:27 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
http://weblogs.sun-sentinel.com...

Florida Governor Charlie Crist might run as an independent for Florida's Senate seat, due to his horrible poll numbers in the Republican primary against former state House speaker, and extremely right-wing, Tea-Party-endorsed GOPer, Marco Rubio.

But, this alludes to a greater point; the push against moderates in the GOP. In states where the GOP has a chance of winning with a candidate from the far-right, the push is on. Candidates are taking on current incumbents and fighting primary battles for open seats. Rumours are that people like Olympia Snowe, Lindsey Graham, Mike Castle, and several other Senators and candidates, are going to face tough primary challenges from these "ideologically pure" candidates.

It appears as if the partisan politics of the US are taking an even more partisan turn. As moderates flee from the GOP, and the Democrats lose noted members who were known for their moderation, like Evan Bayh, US politics is becoming more and more polarized. Is this really a good thing? Is it preferable that the moderate voice in the US is snuffed out?
Ragnar_Rahl
Posts: 19,297
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2/25/2010 9:05:30 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
Yes. In a democracy, the existence of moderates keeps the system much more stable. The more polarized, the more hope there is that one of these days it'll lose its balance and fall off my back.
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
Xer
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2/25/2010 9:07:40 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
Crist is polling horribly because he supports the stimulus and has been basically campaigning with Obama. The picture of Obama and Crist hugging has become notorious.

I don't think moderates are losing out, I don't believe in the term really. There really isn't such a thing as moderates any more. Evan Bayh was. He left the Senate after he voted for the stimulus, said he was going to start his own business, and create more jobs than the stimulus ever could. Americans are fed up with the spending, stimulus, and bailouts of some of the richest people in the country.

The stimulus has been an utter failure. Each job created has cost $200k-600k. Is that worth it? Of course not. Everyone who voted for the stimulus or bailouts is suffering the wrath of the tea-party and real conservatives.

I don't see any real serious political gains in the 2010 election. Sure, the Republicans will gain up to forty seats in the house, but the elections they are going to win are in Republican-leaning districts. The Democrats gained so much seats in 2006 and 2008 that they can only go down from there. Bush is out, Obama is in.

Moderates are non-existent really. Democrats and Republicans are both big government, very big government. The right and tea-party are only bringing us towards more moderate times, like when Bill Clinton was in office and the budget was half of what it is now. Is that really vastly right wing? No. I think the movement going on right now is for the best. The Democrats should watch their backs in the House and maybe even the Senate, because they might lose a majority in either one. The House is more likely though. The 2012 Presidential Election is going to be the big one though.
Volkov
Posts: 9,765
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2/25/2010 9:07:47 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 2/25/2010 9:05:30 PM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
Yes. In a democracy, the existence of moderates keeps the system much more stable. The more polarized, the more hope there is that one of these days it'll lose its balance and fall off my back.

It's sad when you become so used to someone's ideals, that you can predict what they'll say beforehand. Or, you're just very predictable, Ragnar.
Volkov
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2/25/2010 9:12:55 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
I disagree, Nags. I think the moderates are being pushed out. There is no question the Tea Party really is pretty far right. To say someone like Marco Rubio, or Doug Hoffman, is a "moderate," is really stretching the term.

But, I do agree that yes, the US isn't really full of a lot of moderates. Evan Bayh was one, and he's gone. Charlie Crist, while I don't know a lot about him, is considered a moderate, and he's being beaten out. Maybe its just the regular cycle of politics and ideologies; but it is one that concerns me.
Ragnar_Rahl
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2/25/2010 9:13:12 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
Meh, positional predictability has a strong negative correlation to contradicting yourself, so I'll take it.

The only competing factor coming that prevents me from calling it a sufficient causal relationship is the processing ability of the predictor, so you should probably take it too :P
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
Xer
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2/25/2010 9:16:14 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 2/25/2010 9:12:55 PM, Volkov wrote:
I disagree, Nags. I think the moderates are being pushed out. There is no question the Tea Party really is pretty far right. To say someone like Marco Rubio, or Doug Hoffman, is a "moderate," is really stretching the term.

They will help bring the country back to being more moderate, they aren't moderate themselves. I don't see what's so radical of cutting spending and taxes, though.

But, I do agree that yes, the US isn't really full of a lot of moderates. Evan Bayh was one, and he's gone. Charlie Crist, while I don't know a lot about him, is considered a moderate, and he's being beaten out. Maybe its just the regular cycle of politics and ideologies; but it is one that concerns me.

Evan Bayh would have probably won if he ran again. Charlie Crist is a RINO (Republican In Name Only) -- you can't tout the stimulus and hug Obama. It just doesn't work like that.
Ragnar_Rahl
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2/25/2010 9:19:48 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 2/25/2010 9:12:55 PM, Volkov wrote:
To say someone like Marco Rubio, or Doug Hoffman, is a "moderate," is really stretching the term.

http://blogs.orlandosentinel.com...

Marco Rubio wants low taxes and high spending.

I shouldn't have granted the premise that this was the polarization I was looking for. Low taxes and high spending-- that is, low taxes now high taxes later-- is about as moderate as it gets. It's the epitome of moderation and is the bipartisan consensus. Calling some scrub like that ideologically pure, that's what's really stretching the term :P
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
Volkov
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2/25/2010 9:21:49 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 2/25/2010 9:16:14 PM, Nags wrote:
They will help bring the country back to being more moderate, they aren't moderate themselves.

Well, you have a point there, actually. In Canada, we had our right-wing moderate void filled by extremists for awhile, and eventually the two groups merged together, and now we have a moderate right-wing party again. I suppose as people move out to the extremes, the moderates, out of their own self-preservation instincts, move back in greater force to balance it out again.

I don't see what's so radical of cutting spending and taxes, though.

Well, it isn't necessarily a radical concept, but the extent to how far that will go, how its implemented, and etc., is what is considered "radical."

Evan Bayh would have probably won if he ran again. Charlie Crist is a RINO (Republican In Name Only) -- you can't tout the stimulus and hug Obama. It just doesn't work like that.

>:(
Volkov
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2/25/2010 9:22:39 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 2/25/2010 9:19:48 PM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
Marco Rubio wants low taxes and high spending.

I shouldn't have granted the premise that this was the polarization I was looking for. Low taxes and high spending-- that is, low taxes now high taxes later-- is about as moderate as it gets. It's the epitome of moderation and is the bipartisan consensus. Calling some scrub like that ideologically pure, that's what's really stretching the term :P

That's what they call themselves, not me. But, that's an interesting point to raise about Rubio.
Danielle
Posts: 21,330
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2/26/2010 10:27:51 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
Charlie Crist! The huge closet homosexual! Did he come out yet or is he still in that just-for-show sham of a marriage?
President of DDO
Volkov
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2/26/2010 3:06:04 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 2/26/2010 10:27:51 AM, theLwerd wrote:
Charlie Crist! The huge closet homosexual! Did he come out yet or is he still in that just-for-show sham of a marriage?

He's gay? Ha! I didn't know that.
Xer
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2/26/2010 3:07:47 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 2/26/2010 3:06:04 PM, Volkov wrote:
At 2/26/2010 10:27:51 AM, theLwerd wrote:
Charlie Crist! The huge closet homosexual! Did he come out yet or is he still in that just-for-show sham of a marriage?

He's gay? Ha! I didn't know that.

....He's married to a female.
Danielle
Posts: 21,330
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2/27/2010 11:48:54 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 2/26/2010 3:07:47 PM, Nags wrote:
At 2/26/2010 3:06:04 PM, Volkov wrote:
At 2/26/2010 10:27:51 AM, theLwerd wrote:
Charlie Crist! The huge closet homosexual! Did he come out yet or is he still in that just-for-show sham of a marriage?

He's gay? Ha! I didn't know that.

....He's married to a female.
President of DDO
Xer
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2/27/2010 11:53:05 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 2/27/2010 11:48:54 AM, theLwerd wrote:
At 2/26/2010 3:07:47 PM, Nags wrote:
At 2/26/2010 3:06:04 PM, Volkov wrote:
At 2/26/2010 10:27:51 AM, theLwerd wrote:
Charlie Crist! The huge closet homosexual! Did he come out yet or is he still in that just-for-show sham of a marriage?

He's gay? Ha! I didn't know that.

....He's married to a female.

This is the second time he's been married, fyi.
Danielle
Posts: 21,330
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2/27/2010 11:56:35 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 2/27/2010 11:53:05 AM, Nags wrote:
At 2/27/2010 11:48:54 AM, theLwerd wrote:
At 2/26/2010 3:07:47 PM, Nags wrote:
At 2/26/2010 3:06:04 PM, Volkov wrote:
At 2/26/2010 10:27:51 AM, theLwerd wrote:
Charlie Crist! The huge closet homosexual! Did he come out yet or is he still in that just-for-show sham of a marriage?

He's gay? Ha! I didn't know that.

....He's married to a female.

This is the second time he's been married, fyi.

Oh well then OBVIOUSLY that changes everything... ... ... ...
President of DDO
Xer
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2/27/2010 11:58:08 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 2/27/2010 11:56:35 AM, theLwerd wrote:
Oh well then OBVIOUSLY that changes everything... ... ... ...

At least you have evidence he's gay... ... ... ...
Danielle
Posts: 21,330
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2/27/2010 12:02:44 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 2/27/2010 11:58:08 AM, Nags wrote:
At 2/27/2010 11:56:35 AM, theLwerd wrote:
Oh well then OBVIOUSLY that changes everything... ... ... ...

At least you have evidence he's gay... ... ... ...

Lol I don't need evidence. This is not to be taken seriously. I mean he IS gay, but it's really not a big deal.
President of DDO
Xer
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2/27/2010 12:06:26 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 2/27/2010 12:02:44 PM, theLwerd wrote:
Lol I don't need evidence. This is not to be taken seriously. I mean he IS gay, but it's really not a big deal.

Uhh, so you saying he's gay is a joke? In that case, okay.
I-am-a-panda
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2/27/2010 12:09:50 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 2/27/2010 11:58:08 AM, Nags wrote:
At 2/27/2010 11:56:35 AM, theLwerd wrote:
Oh well then OBVIOUSLY that changes everything... ... ... ...

At least you have evidence he's gay... ... ... ...

http://www.salon.com...

"When his engagement was announced, there was largely no discussion of what most every national political reporter was probably thinking. What there was instead was a sort of inside joke, which was easy to catch if you were in on the secret, but not obvious to most readers and viewers. MSNBC's Chris Matthews, for example, could barely suppress an impish smile when talking about the news."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com...

"features tell-alls from men who say they've had relationships with various Republicans, including Florida Governor Charlie Crist"

http://www.nytimes.com...

"Much of "Outrage" consists of interviews with journalists and activists who reflect on that history [of gay issues in politics], including Andrew Sullivan, the blogger and author; Representative Barney Frank, the Massachusetts Democrat; and Larry Kramer, the novelist and playwright who was a founder of Act Up. Their reflections are interwoven with allegations about the sex lives of several well-known current political figures, including Gov. Charlie Crist of Florida,"

Yeah, no evidence.
Pizza. I have enormous respect for Pizza.
Danielle
Posts: 21,330
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2/27/2010 12:11:04 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 2/27/2010 12:06:26 PM, Nags wrote:
At 2/27/2010 12:02:44 PM, theLwerd wrote:
Lol I don't need evidence. This is not to be taken seriously. I mean he IS gay, but it's really not a big deal.

Uhh, so you saying he's gay is a joke? In that case, okay.

It's not a joke. It's gossip. Don't pretend gossip is foreign to DDO lol. People have been speculating that he's gay for years and years. I've seen a documentary (I forget the name of it) about gay politics and it featured some big names in the political world (senators and the like) talking about how "everyone knows" he's gay and it's just a hush hush thing that has become the giant elephant in the room after quips about how he got married to put those rumors to rest. Do I really give a flying **** about his sexuality? No. Will I tease about him being a huge homo? Sure, why not. I'm kidding...
President of DDO
Danielle
Posts: 21,330
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2/27/2010 12:13:17 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
Hehe don't waste your time, Panda. Nags will say that those are merely rumors and any first hand testimonials are for whatever reason invalid. Do I personally think he's gay? Hell yeah. But it's not a huge deal lol it just sucks he has to live so oppressed like that.
President of DDO
Xer
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2/27/2010 12:17:13 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
Panda, notice how there is no evidence to back up what the journalists are saying. They just say it. It's like when George Bush asserted that there were WMDs were in Iraq. "Just believe me, you can trust me." Nope, sorry. Speculation and rumors =/= evidence.

theLwerd, point taken.
I-am-a-panda
Posts: 15,380
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2/27/2010 2:05:43 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 2/27/2010 12:17:13 PM, Nags wrote:
Panda, notice how there is no evidence to back up what the journalists are saying. They just say it. It's like when George Bush asserted that there were WMDs were in Iraq. "Just believe me, you can trust me." Nope, sorry. Speculation and rumors =/= evidence.

theLwerd, point taken.

At 2/27/2010 12:09:50 PM, I-am-a-panda wrote:
"features tell-alls from men who say they've had relationships with various Republicans, including Florida Governor Charlie Crist"

I understand you ignore peoples posts, make a point and feel you've made some sort of mini-conquest in the name of libertarianism, but if you're not going to read my posts and then respond, at least admit it.
Pizza. I have enormous respect for Pizza.
Xer
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2/27/2010 2:11:31 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 2/27/2010 2:05:43 PM, I-am-a-panda wrote:
At 2/27/2010 12:09:50 PM, I-am-a-panda wrote:
"features tell-alls from men who say they've had relationships with various Republicans, including Florida Governor Charlie Crist"

I understand you ignore peoples posts, make a point and feel you've made some sort of mini-conquest in the name of libertarianism, but if you're not going to read my posts and then respond, at least admit it.

See: hearsay.
I-am-a-panda
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2/27/2010 2:14:11 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 2/27/2010 2:11:31 PM, Nags wrote:
At 2/27/2010 2:05:43 PM, I-am-a-panda wrote:
At 2/27/2010 12:09:50 PM, I-am-a-panda wrote:
"features tell-alls from men who say they've had relationships with various Republicans, including Florida Governor Charlie Crist"

I understand you ignore peoples posts, make a point and feel you've made some sort of mini-conquest in the name of libertarianism, but if you're not going to read my posts and then respond, at least admit it.

See: hearsay.

So testimonials aren't evidence in congress, the UN or in court?
Pizza. I have enormous respect for Pizza.
Xer
Posts: 7,776
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2/27/2010 2:14:53 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 2/27/2010 2:14:11 PM, I-am-a-panda wrote:
So testimonials aren't evidence in congress, the UN or in court?

See: expert testimony. Also see: under oath.
I-am-a-panda
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2/27/2010 2:33:51 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 2/27/2010 2:14:53 PM, Nags wrote:
At 2/27/2010 2:14:11 PM, I-am-a-panda wrote:
So testimonials aren't evidence in congress, the UN or in court?

See: expert testimony. Also see: under oath.

And some issues don't need to be brought to court. You really have a problem trusting people.
Pizza. I have enormous respect for Pizza.
Xer
Posts: 7,776
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2/27/2010 2:38:18 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 2/27/2010 2:33:51 PM, I-am-a-panda wrote:
And some issues don't need to be brought to court. You really have a problem trusting people.

Yeah, you're right. I should trust what everyone says as truth. Naht. I find it perturbing that some people, like you, can be so naive.