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What should Obama do differently and why?

PotBelliedGeek
Posts: 4,298
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7/27/2014 6:54:49 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
What should he be doing differently and why? Be specific, be logical, and back up your assertions because I will put them all through the logic/evidence/accuracy ringer.
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JohnMaynardKeynes
Posts: 1,512
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7/27/2014 7:12:36 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
What should Obama himself do, or what should he push for? I ask because he's essentially a super lame duck right now, and a lot of things I'd love for "him" to do he can't actually do without Congress.
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Praesentya
Posts: 195
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7/28/2014 11:23:27 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
Are you referring to Obama specifically, or his entire administration?

Plenty of issues with our government currently, but very few can be directly attributed to Obama.
PotBelliedGeek
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7/28/2014 2:45:26 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Obama himself. I can agree that there many things the government as a whole should be doing differently, but this discussion is intended for those who believe that Obama alone as an individual is ruining this country.
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Khaos_Mage
Posts: 23,214
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7/28/2014 8:05:29 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/28/2014 2:45:26 PM, PotBelliedGeek wrote:
Obama himself. I can agree that there many things the government as a whole should be doing differently, but this discussion is intended for those who believe that Obama alone as an individual is ruining this country.

He could bring back the idea of everyone sacrificing for the nation (i.e. spending cuts), like he did when he first took office. Now, it's all "fair share, eat the rich" pandering.
My work here is, finally, done.
jzonda415
Posts: 151
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7/28/2014 11:43:54 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/27/2014 6:54:49 PM, PotBelliedGeek wrote:
What should he be doing differently and why? Be specific, be logical, and back up your assertions because I will put them all through the logic/evidence/accuracy ringer.

There are many problems I have with his administration and his policies. What would I say he should change?

I feel that he works to demonize Republicans now more than ever. It doesn't make me, or other people who don't always agree with his policies, interested in any of his ideas; it works to turn us off to him more than anything. Claims such as the Republicans' only goal is to intentionally make sure people don't have healthcare and to tank the economy are obviously wrong, partisan statements. If he wishes to get anywhere, putting and end to these types of statements are a good way to start.
Khaos_Mage
Posts: 23,214
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7/29/2014 10:23:12 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/28/2014 2:45:26 PM, PotBelliedGeek wrote:
Obama himself. I can agree that there many things the government as a whole should be doing differently, but this discussion is intended for those who believe that Obama alone as an individual is ruining this country.

He could also be honest, and stop spinning like a politician.
After all, if blacks are the reason he is in office, they are new to the game, and Obama could educate the American public about the games politicians play, so maybe, just maybe, we wouldn't be so divided.
My work here is, finally, done.
reasondeductively
Posts: 1
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7/29/2014 2:24:46 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
There is nothing he will do differently. Where were you guys when he clearly said his intention was to fundamentally transfor America? Any critical thinker should have reflected on that statement and deduced that one does not fundamentally transform what they agree with. He is anti-American as countless other instances have also shown (from his 1996 PBS interview to his literally dozens of Marxist connections from his mentor Frank Marshall to the ones in his Administration, as well as all his class warfare rhetoric and statements like 'you didn't build that). On top of that, he is corrupt and scandal ridden (Pigford I, Pigford II, Gulf oil spill aftermath, IG firings, Solyndra and other green crony scandals costing over $23 billion, Fast and Furious, IRS, NSA, and several others)

The guy is a walking talking disaster for this country. He is an ideologue and will never do against his ideology unlike Bill Clinton who was a pragmatic (though misguided) president.
iggy1993
Posts: 21
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8/4/2014 8:52:05 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Simple,
1. stop provoking and attacking countries with plans other than the one's which suit the US (BRICK)
2. apply the law (to the FED and the banker scum who dragged us into this depression)
3. return 2nd amendment rights to the people of the US and release all who have been detained wrongfully.
Contra
Posts: 3,941
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8/5/2014 9:36:47 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
(1) Sign an executive order prohibiting the indefinite detention of American citizens without due process of law. President Obama should do this to ensure the protection of our basic civil liberties, which was the basic underpinning of America itself.

(2) Allow American citizens -- through the Affordable Care Act -- to purchase health insurance across state lines. President Obama should provide this concession to the Republicans because many states have a coagulated health insurance market lacking meaningful competition.

(3) Lower the corporate tax rate. President Obama should work with Congress to reduce the corporate income tax in a revenue-neutral manner. It isn't my ideal solution, but it's better than nothing. America currently has the highest corporate tax in the world which encourages businesses to ship jobs overseas, reduces labor productivity and wages, and reduces entrepreneurship, capital formation, business expansion, among other productive ventures.

These three ideas should be relatively easy to pass, are simple, and are bipartisan.
"The solution [for Republicans] is to admit that Bush was a bad president, stop this racist homophobic stuff, stop trying to give most of the tax cuts to the rich, propose a real alternative to Obamacare that actually works, and propose smart free market solutions to our economic problems." - Distraff

"Americans are better off in a dynamic, free-enterprise-based economy that fosters economic growth, opportunity and upward mobility." - Paul Ryan
sadolite
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8/5/2014 11:00:32 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
He should do nothing differently but rather double down on everything he has done already if he intends on achieving his goals that he laid out in interviews he gave before running and becoming President.
It's not your views that divide us, it's what you think my views should be that divides us.

If you think I will give up my rights and forsake social etiquette to make you "FEEL" better you are sadly mistaken

If liberal democrats would just stop shooting people gun violence would drop by 90%
ConservativeLibertarian
Posts: 54
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8/6/2014 2:51:12 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/5/2014 9:36:47 PM, Contra wrote:
(1) Sign an executive order prohibiting the indefinite detention of American citizens without due process of law. President Obama should do this to ensure the protection of our basic civil liberties, which was the basic underpinning of America itself.


I have a hard time buying that a country that was founded at a time when slavery was a matter of "state's rights," women couldn't vote, Jefferson himself owned slaves, etc. was founded on "basic civil liberties." Generally, this is good: the 2013 NDAA provision that Obama didn't want to sign, but had to sign, which was supported by John McCain and his fellow warmongers, was horrible and he should in fact find a way to prevent it from ever being used.

(2) Allow American citizens -- through the Affordable Care Act -- to purchase health insurance across state lines. President Obama should provide this concession to the Republicans because many states have a coagulated health insurance market lacking meaningful competition.


First, if you actually care about competition, you'd support the public option or the reinstatement of the anti-trust exemption on insurance companies.

Second, this is a horrible idea. States regulate insurance, and what this does is issue a de-facto exemption from state regulations.

(3) Lower the corporate tax rate. President Obama should work with Congress to reduce the corporate income tax in a revenue-neutral manner. It isn't my ideal solution, but it's better than nothing. America currently has the highest corporate tax in the world which encourages businesses to ship jobs overseas, reduces labor productivity and wages, and reduces entrepreneurship, capital formation, business expansion, among other productive ventures.


Stop right there. You've spewing bull.

"Highest corporate tax rate."

Highest STATUTORY corporate tax rate. Republicans love to spew this talking point, and it's fact-free, convoluted nonsense. Let me now educate you.

First, the EFFECTIVE rate is about 12.1% -- lowest in DECADES.

http://money.cnn.com...
http://online.wsj.com...
http://crooksandliars.com...

Second, the effective rate is literally approaching its lowest levels in history.

http://www.financialsense.com...

Third, the richest companies pay and have been paying -- not really paying -- NEGATIVE tax rates. Many of them receive money back from the government after paying a whopping zero percent.

http://www.ctj.org...

Fourth, your narrative that "high corporate tax rates are shipping jobs overseas" is LUDICROUS. Taxes are low by historic standards, were higher in the 40s, 50s, and even 60s, the rate was about 48% under Jack Kennedy whom you conservatives seem to LOVE, and there is pretty much zero evidence for your thesis that tax cuts create jobs.

http://www.nakedcapitalism.com...
http://www.dpcc.senate.gov... (Republicans tried to conceal this report)

Not to mention, the real jobs are in start-ups:

http://www.forbes.com...

AND corporate tax cuts do nothing more but exacerbate the wealth gap, which itself is harmful and, if you have a heart, immoral.

http://blogs.wsj.com... (also the congressional research service paper)

AND businesses almost unanimously declare in survey after survey that the problem is lack of demand, not lack of tax cuts -- which is convenient considering their rates are low by historic standards.

http://mediamatters.org...

These three ideas should be relatively easy to pass, are simple, and are bipartisan.

The notion that corporate tax cuts are BIPARTISAN is literally sickening, but Obama has already professed support for your bogus corporate tax scheme. The problem is, it won't work and you don't know what you're talking about.
Contra
Posts: 3,941
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8/6/2014 12:54:12 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/6/2014 2:51:12 AM, ConservativeLibertarian wrote:
At 8/5/2014 9:36:47 PM, Contra wrote:
(1) Sign an executive order prohibiting the indefinite detention of American citizens without due process of law. President Obama should do this to ensure the protection of our basic civil liberties, which was the basic underpinning of America itself.


I have a hard time buying that a country that was founded at a time when slavery was a matter of "state's rights," women couldn't vote, Jefferson himself owned slaves, etc. was founded on "basic civil liberties."

The general motivation behind the American Revolution was the concept that people should have due process of law, the right to vote, and have representation with taxation.

Of course though, these civil liberties weren't universal, but eventually were granted to all Americans.

Generally, this is good: the 2013 NDAA provision that Obama didn't want to sign, but had to sign, which was supported by John McCain and his fellow warmongers, was horrible and he should in fact find a way to prevent it from ever being used.

So we should agree: Obama should sign an executive order prohibiting the indefinite detention of U.S. citizens without due process of law.


(2) Allow American citizens -- through the Affordable Care Act -- to purchase health insurance across state lines. President Obama should provide this concession to the Republicans because many states have a coagulated health insurance market lacking meaningful competition.


First, if you actually care about competition, you'd support the public option or the reinstatement of the anti-trust exemption on insurance companies.

The public option -- which (1) essentially is guaranteed unlimited funding from the federal government, and therefore cannot fail, (2) is exempted from taxation, and (3) is in many respects immune from the "self-regulation" provided from the market itself.

Second, this is a horrible idea. States regulate insurance, and what this does is issue a de-facto exemption from state regulations.

The federal government already regulates health insurance, if you know. Second, health insurance regulation's costs exceed its benefits by a wide margin (http://www.cato.org...).

(3) Lower the corporate tax rate. President Obama should work with Congress to reduce the corporate income tax in a revenue-neutral manner. It isn't my ideal solution, but it's better than nothing. America currently has the highest corporate tax in the world which encourages businesses to ship jobs overseas, reduces labor productivity and wages, and reduces entrepreneurship, capital formation, business expansion, among other productive ventures.


Stop right there. You've spewing bull.

Haha.

"Highest corporate tax rate."

Highest STATUTORY corporate tax rate.

Yes, that's what I meant.

Republicans love to spew this talking point, and it's fact-free, convoluted nonsense. Let me now educate you.

First, the EFFECTIVE rate is about 12.1% -- lowest in DECADES.

http://money.cnn.com...
http://online.wsj.com...
http://crooksandliars.com...

Second, the effective rate is literally approaching its lowest levels in history.

http://www.financialsense.com...

I never disputed any of these facts.

Third, the richest companies pay and have been paying -- not really paying -- NEGATIVE tax rates. Many of them receive money back from the government after paying a whopping zero percent.

http://www.ctj.org...

So you should agree with me that we should lower the corporate tax rate in a revenue-neutral manner. If we implemented my recommendation, businesses would have a more level playing field -- both in America, and throughout the global economy.

The current corporate tax system is the reason some companies pay negative tax rates. You should agree with me here as well if you want to change this.

Fourth, your narrative that "high corporate tax rates are shipping jobs overseas" is LUDICROUS.

Assume Pfizer wants to locate its corporate headquarters in Ireland or the United States. Because Ireland has a low tax rate of 10%, and the US has a rate of 35%, Pfizer would essentially gain billions of dollars by moving to Ireland. If we want to grow the economy, we need a competitive tax system.

Also, our tax system adds expensive compliance costs.

Taxes are low by historic standards, were higher in the 40s, 50s, and even 60s,

When the US had essentially little-to-no competition in the global economy. The major economies like Germany and Japan were obliterated, and Canada and the U.K. were to small in comparison to be a major threat, especially given our larger population and educated workforce.

and there is pretty much zero evidence for your thesis that tax cuts create jobs.

http://www.nakedcapitalism.com...

This "study" simply analyzes the relationship between a business size and its job creation level. Therefore, it is ignoring many factors which are important to consider. It is well known that small businesses (<500 employees, as per the Bureau of Labor Statistics definition) generate most of the job creation in the United States.
http://www.dpcc.senate.gov... (Republicans tried to conceal this report)

Again, this simply tracks the effective corporate tax rate. The statutory tax rate is much higher at 35%.

Not to mention, the real jobs are in start-ups:

http://www.forbes.com...

Yup.

AND corporate tax cuts do nothing more but exacerbate the wealth gap, which itself is harmful and, if you have a heart, immoral.

When someone starts name-calling, I know that you've gotten desperate.

http://blogs.wsj.com... (also the congressional research service paper)

AND businesses almost unanimously declare in survey after survey that the problem is lack of demand, not lack of tax cuts -- which is convenient considering their rates are low by historic standards.

http://mediamatters.org...

That sounds accurate. How do we increase demand then? Government spending has a multiplier that isn't as high as tax cuts (http://www.frbsf.org...).

Tax cuts aren't a "cure all" by itself anyway. To spur demand, we need to embolden job creation, generating high-paying, good jobs for Americans. We need a streamlined, predictable regulatory system, a competitive and simple corporate tax system, a simplified income tax system, and a highly-skilled workforce.

These three ideas should be relatively easy to pass, are simple, and are bipartisan.

The notion that corporate tax cuts are BIPARTISAN is literally sickening, but Obama has already professed support for your bogus corporate tax scheme. The problem is, it won't work and you don't know what you're talking about.

If you have the courage to back up your words, I'd be more than happy to debate you on this.

Also, I said revenue-neutral corporate tax reform. Why would anybody hate that? Say, instead of the "block of Swiss cheese" corporate taxes we have now, we could have a flat rate of say 9%, that is revenue neutral.

Why would you rather have the complicated mess we have now?
"The solution [for Republicans] is to admit that Bush was a bad president, stop this racist homophobic stuff, stop trying to give most of the tax cuts to the rich, propose a real alternative to Obamacare that actually works, and propose smart free market solutions to our economic problems." - Distraff

"Americans are better off in a dynamic, free-enterprise-based economy that fosters economic growth, opportunity and upward mobility." - Paul Ryan