Total Posts:258|Showing Posts:1-30|Last Page
Jump to topic:

Obama Won

Freeman
Posts: 1,239
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/3/2010 9:31:12 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
The debate over health care has been ongoing for quite some time, and today it looks as if it's finally coming to a close. In the end, President Obama got his way. Health care reform will be passed, and there is nothing that anyone can do about it. How does this make you feel?
Chancellor of Propaganda and Foreign Relations in the Franklin administration.

"I intend to live forever. So far, so good." -- Steven Wright
Volkov
Posts: 9,765
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/3/2010 9:33:40 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
Pride in the fact that Obama finally got right down to it and said this needs to be done, GOP be damned - they had their chance to be apart of it.
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/3/2010 9:33:58 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 3/3/2010 9:31:12 PM, Freeman wrote:
The debate over health care has been ongoing for quite some time, and today it looks as if it's finally coming to a close. In the end, President Obama got his way. Health care reform will be passed, and there is nothing that anyone can do about it. How does this make you feel?

Don't really care, lol. Just glad the nonsense is over. Perhaps I'll benefit from it when I'm 23 and lose my private health care.
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
mattrodstrom
Posts: 12,028
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/3/2010 9:35:58 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
Is it done?

He's got the votes??

What're they doin having the House pass the senate revision??
"He who does not know how to put his will into things at least puts a meaning into them: that is, he believes there is a will in them already."

Metaphysics:
"The science.. which deals with the fundamental errors of mankind - but as if they were the fundamental truths."
Volkov
Posts: 9,765
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/3/2010 9:39:11 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 3/3/2010 9:35:58 PM, mattrodstrom wrote:
Is it done?

Almost.

He's got the votes??

Pelosi says she does. I believe something like 30-35 Democratic Senators have come out directly in support of reconciliation.

What're they doin having the House pass the senate revision??

The plan is apparently to force the House to include the Senate's abortion clause, and the House's fiscal measures, plus some other amendments, will make most of the cut. I don't know much else beyond that.
studentathletechristian8
Posts: 5,810
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/3/2010 9:40:53 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 3/3/2010 9:33:40 PM, Volkov wrote:
Pride in the fact that Obama finally got right down to it and said this needs to be done, GOP be damned - they had their chance to be apart of it.

May Democrats and liberals be da--

Crap, I am more liberal now. My prior conservatism and Type A Personality still make me defensive of the Republicans.

Nonetheless, I do not support national health care. I'm with the Right on this one.
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/3/2010 9:43:32 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 3/3/2010 9:40:53 PM, studentathletechristian8 wrote:
Nonetheless, I do not support national health care. I'm with the Right on this one.

I think you mean "public option."
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
studentathletechristian8
Posts: 5,810
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/3/2010 9:44:25 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 3/3/2010 9:43:32 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
At 3/3/2010 9:40:53 PM, studentathletechristian8 wrote:
Nonetheless, I do not support national health care. I'm with the Right on this one.

I think you mean "public option."

I really am tired. My bad.
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/3/2010 9:45:31 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 3/3/2010 9:44:25 PM, studentathletechristian8 wrote:
At 3/3/2010 9:43:32 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
At 3/3/2010 9:40:53 PM, studentathletechristian8 wrote:
Nonetheless, I do not support national health care. I'm with the Right on this one.

I think you mean "public option."

I really am tired. My bad.

I was actually just making a rhetorical statement, :P
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
Reasoning
Posts: 4,456
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/3/2010 9:55:48 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
It was bound to happen eventually.
"What we really ought to ask the liberal, before we even begin addressing his agenda, is this: In what kind of society would he be a conservative?" - Joseph Sobran
Ragnar_Rahl
Posts: 19,297
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/3/2010 10:00:14 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
What exactly are you referring to?
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
J.Kenyon
Posts: 4,194
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/3/2010 10:02:19 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 3/3/2010 9:31:12 PM, Freeman wrote:
How does this make you feel?

Furious. But, at the same time, glad that Obama will be one and done : )
Reasoning
Posts: 4,456
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/3/2010 10:07:35 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 3/3/2010 10:06:07 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
People who oppose public healthcare make me sick... (no pun intended)

People who support a system that plunders the working class to give more money to the capitalists make me sick.
"What we really ought to ask the liberal, before we even begin addressing his agenda, is this: In what kind of society would he be a conservative?" - Joseph Sobran
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/3/2010 10:08:14 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 3/3/2010 10:06:07 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
People who oppose public healthcare make me sick... (no pun intended)

I would tend to agree. It's not a takeover and it's not replacing private healthcare. It's just offering a bandaid to the poor people who can't afford it from private agencies who charge.
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
Ragnar_Rahl
Posts: 19,297
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/3/2010 10:08:50 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
Pretty sure the proposal is to directly plunder the capitalists, whatever the eventual effects on the working class, Reasoning.
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
Ragnar_Rahl
Posts: 19,297
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/3/2010 10:09:38 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 3/3/2010 10:08:14 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
At 3/3/2010 10:06:07 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
People who oppose public healthcare make me sick... (no pun intended)

I would tend to agree. It's not a takeover and it's not replacing private healthcare. It's just offering a bandaid to the poor people who can't afford it from private agencies who charge.
Yes, we should definitely have an alternative to earning what you consume! Like stealing!

P
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
InsertNameHere
Posts: 15,699
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/3/2010 10:12:08 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 3/3/2010 10:07:35 PM, Reasoning wrote:
At 3/3/2010 10:06:07 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
People who oppose public healthcare make me sick... (no pun intended)

People who support a system that plunders the working class to give more money to the capitalists make me sick.

Private healthcare gives money to the capitalists.
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/3/2010 10:12:22 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 3/3/2010 10:09:38 PM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
At 3/3/2010 10:08:14 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
I would tend to agree. It's not a takeover and it's not replacing private healthcare. It's just offering a bandaid to the poor people who can't afford it from private agencies who charge.
Yes, we should definitely have an alternative to earning what you consume! Like stealing!

My health insurance provider is going to cut me off because of my age. I work and go to school, so I'm not freeloading. The public option will help me when the private company screws me over because I'm not a "child."
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
Reasoning
Posts: 4,456
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/3/2010 10:13:33 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 3/3/2010 10:08:50 PM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
Pretty sure the proposal is to directly plunder the capitalists, whatever the eventual effects on the working class, Reasoning.

Oh Rahl, you are such a misguided Rightist.

The reason that the state got involved in healthcare in the first place was in the interest of big capital against the working man.

We can't have all those doctors running around charging low rates! Let's restrict the number of doctors so we can garnish restrictionist prices!
"What we really ought to ask the liberal, before we even begin addressing his agenda, is this: In what kind of society would he be a conservative?" - Joseph Sobran
Reasoning
Posts: 4,456
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/3/2010 10:15:32 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 3/3/2010 10:12:08 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
At 3/3/2010 10:07:35 PM, Reasoning wrote:
At 3/3/2010 10:06:07 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
People who oppose public healthcare make me sick... (no pun intended)

People who support a system that plunders the working class to give more money to the capitalists make me sick.

Private healthcare gives money to the capitalists.

Free Market healthcare does not however.
"What we really ought to ask the liberal, before we even begin addressing his agenda, is this: In what kind of society would he be a conservative?" - Joseph Sobran
J.Kenyon
Posts: 4,194
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/3/2010 10:15:45 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 3/3/2010 10:07:35 PM, Reasoning wrote:
People who support a system that plunders the working class to give more money to the capitalists make me sick.

"Capitalism is an economic and social system in which capital and land, the non-labor factors of production (also known as the means of production), are privately owned; labor, goods and resources are traded in markets; and profit, after taxes, is distributed to the owners or invested in technologies and, industries."[1]

"Countries that have corporatist systems typically utilize strong state intervention to direct corporatist policies."[2]

Would you please stop deliberately confusing capitalism with corporatism? That being said, the individual mandate is DEFINITELY exploitive and pure corporatism.

1. http://en.wikipedia.org...
2. http://en.wikipedia.org...
belle
Posts: 4,113
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/3/2010 10:17:09 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 3/3/2010 10:06:07 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
People who oppose public healthcare make me sick... (no pun intended)

because if everyone behaved like robin hood the world would be a much nicer place, right?
evidently i only come to ddo to avoid doing homework...
Ragnar_Rahl
Posts: 19,297
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/3/2010 10:20:57 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 3/3/2010 10:12:08 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
At 3/3/2010 10:07:35 PM, Reasoning wrote:
At 3/3/2010 10:06:07 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
People who oppose public healthcare make me sick... (no pun intended)

People who support a system that plunders the working class to give more money to the capitalists make me sick.

Private healthcare gives money to the capitalists.
Private healthcare trades money to the capitalists, not gives.

My health insurance provider is going to cut me off because of my age.
You're 21 dude. What the hell are you talking about?

I work and go to school, so I'm not freeloading.
If you take anything without paying for it, yes you are.

The public option will help me when the private company screws me over because I'm not a "child."
Oh, you're complaining that your parents' health care will no longer pay for you, exactly as advertised. That isn't "Your" health insurance provider, that's a freaking gift.

Oh Rahl, you are such a misguided Rightist.
The reason that the state got involved in healthcare in the first place was in the interest of big capital against the working man.
I think it had more to do with big doctor's unions than the people one would normally call "Capitalists" in the non-ideological sense. In any case, that's the CURRENT state intervention. The proposed state intervention doesn' fix that, but it does direct a little the other way.

because if everyone behaved like robin hood the world would be a much nicer place, right?
I don't know why I keep confusing you for some kind of moderliberal Belle.
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
Ragnar_Rahl
Posts: 19,297
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/3/2010 10:22:44 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
Also, you seem to be making the mistake of thinking that state policy is coherently written for one pressure group at all, Reasoning. It's written by MANY DIFFERENT pressure groups, high and low, with MANY DIFFERENT victims, high and low.
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/3/2010 10:30:05 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 3/3/2010 10:20:57 PM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
GeoLaureate8 wrote:
My health insurance provider is going to cut me off because of my age.
You're 21 dude. What the hell are you talking about?

Yeah, at 23, they'll cut me off. The deal is that since I'm a college student, they'll cover me, but once I turn 23, college student or not, I get cut off.

I work and go to school, so I'm not freeloading.
If you take anything without paying for it, yes you are.

I am being enslaved by the monetary system, yet I'm the one stealing when I try to free from it's grasp?

The public option will help me when the private company screws me over because I'm not a "child."
Oh, you're complaining that your parents' health care will no longer pay for you, exactly as advertised. That isn't "Your" health insurance provider, that's a freaking gift.

It's something that I should already be given as a work benefit, but because I'm part time, and because I can't get promoted to full-time due to an economic problem that isn't my fault, I don't get my well-deserved health insurance. I contribute and I deserve to maintain my health to continue doing so.
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
Ragnar_Rahl
Posts: 19,297
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/3/2010 10:40:19 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 3/3/2010 10:30:05 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
At 3/3/2010 10:20:57 PM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
GeoLaureate8 wrote:
My health insurance provider is going to cut me off because of my age.
You're 21 dude. What the hell are you talking about?

Yeah, at 23, they'll cut me off. The deal is that since I'm a college student, they'll cover me, but once I turn 23, college student or not, I get cut off.

Yeah, because it's a contract with your parents, not you.

I have the same situation, but I intend to, you know, find my own when it's over :P

I am being enslaved by the monetary system
What the hell?
You are enslaved by taxes (which you advocate more of here.) The monetary system? What do you mean by that? If you mean legal tender laws, that's done by the institution you empower further with the "public option."


The public option will help me when the private company screws me over because I'm not a "child."
Oh, you're complaining that your parents' health care will no longer pay for you, exactly as advertised. That isn't "Your" health insurance provider, that's a freaking gift.

It's something that I should already be given as a work benefit
Why do you work for them then?

but because I'm part time
As in-- you don't produce enough to, you know, earn that in addition to your wages.
It's more economically efficient to end the subsidy to health benefits and just pay wages in place of health insurance anyway.

and because I can't get promoted to full-time due to an economic problem that isn't my fault
What problem is that? Do you mean the recession, which was caused by people doing exactly what you propose to do more of (guaranteeing things to people instead of having them earn them with all the risks they entail)?

I don't get my well-deserved health insurance. I contribute and I deserve to maintain my health to continue doing so.
No, you do not contribute sufficiently to deserve to maintain it. The only way to contribute sufficiently to deserve to maintain services provided by SOMEONE ELSE is to contribute sufficiently that someone is willing to pay you enough for you to be able to purchase those services.
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
Reasoning
Posts: 4,456
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/3/2010 10:42:13 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 3/3/2010 10:40:19 PM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
It's more economically efficient to end the subsidy to health benefits and just pay wages in place of health insurance anyway.

This cannot be stated enough.
"What we really ought to ask the liberal, before we even begin addressing his agenda, is this: In what kind of society would he be a conservative?" - Joseph Sobran
Freeman
Posts: 1,239
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/3/2010 10:53:39 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
The fly represents the republicans in the health care debate.
Chancellor of Propaganda and Foreign Relations in the Franklin administration.

"I intend to live forever. So far, so good." -- Steven Wright