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Liberals Shouldn't Reject the Communist Label

LogicalLunatic
Posts: 1,633
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7/29/2014 9:22:35 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
I have made lots of troll threads, but this is not one of them.

Liberals possess an Egalitarian mindset. They fight for "LGBT Rights", Women's Rights, Black Rights, etc.
Communists believe that everyone should be equal.

Liberals believe that those darned rich people are ruining the economy by being so greedy and hoarding the money. Also, you believe that the poor should have access to Federal Aid.
Communists believe that there should be a moneyless, classless society where there is no ownership of property.

Basically, Communists are a slightly more radical version of you.
However, I am not trying to insult you. In fact, you should wear that label as a badge of honor (even though I disagree with a lot of the stuff mentioned above).
What do you think?
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TRUECRISTIAN
Posts: 47
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7/30/2014 3:08:39 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
need to associate with a good mental health professional Maybe they can help you unravel the amoral and sociopathic lack of conscience at the root of your narcisisstic personality disorder and why you're compelled to project your own behavior onto others.
YouAt 7/29/2014 9:22:35 PM, LogicalLunatic wrote:
I have made lots of troll threads, but this is not one of them.

Liberals possess an Egalitarian mindset. They fight for "LGBT Rights", Women's Rights, Black Rights, etc.
Communists believe that everyone should be equal.

Liberals believe that those darned rich people are ruining the economy by being so greedy and hoarding the money. Also, you believe that the poor should have access to Federal Aid.
Communists believe that there should be a moneyless, classless society where there is no ownership of property.

Basically, Communists are a slightly more radical version of you.
However, I am not trying to insult you. In fact, you should wear that label as a badge of honor (even though I disagree with a lot of the stuff mentioned above).
What do you think?
LogicalLunatic
Posts: 1,633
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7/30/2014 1:40:31 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/30/2014 3:08:39 AM, TRUECRISTIAN wrote:
need to associate with a good mental health professional Maybe they can help you unravel the amoral and sociopathic lack of conscience at the root of your narcisisstic personality disorder and why you're compelled to project your own behavior onto others.
YouAt 7/29/2014 9:22:35 PM, LogicalLunatic wrote:
I have made lots of troll threads, but this is not one of them.

Liberals possess an Egalitarian mindset. They fight for "LGBT Rights", Women's Rights, Black Rights, etc.
Communists believe that everyone should be equal.

Liberals believe that those darned rich people are ruining the economy by being so greedy and hoarding the money. Also, you believe that the poor should have access to Federal Aid.
Communists believe that there should be a moneyless, classless society where there is no ownership of property.

Basically, Communists are a slightly more radical version of you.
However, I am not trying to insult you. In fact, you should wear that label as a badge of honor (even though I disagree with a lot of the stuff mentioned above).
What do you think?

Huh?
A True Work of Art: http://www.debate.org...

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Bulproof formally admits to being a troll (Post 16):
http://www.debate.org...
Chimera
Posts: 178
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7/30/2014 3:14:06 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/29/2014 9:22:35 PM, LogicalLunatic wrote:
I have made lots of troll threads, but this is not one of them.

Liberals possess an Egalitarian mindset. They fight for "LGBT Rights", Women's Rights, Black Rights, etc.
Communists believe that everyone should be equal.

Liberals believe that those darned rich people are ruining the economy by being so greedy and hoarding the money. Also, you believe that the poor should have access to Federal Aid.
Communists believe that there should be a moneyless, classless society where there is no ownership of property.

Basically, Communists are a slightly more radical version of you.
However, I am not trying to insult you. In fact, you should wear that label as a badge of honor (even though I disagree with a lot of the stuff mentioned above).
What do you think?

Liberals believe in maintaining the state and the capitalist mode of production. They don't even believe in socialist measures such as workers control of the means of production. Nor do they believe in Marx's analysis of history. I don't see too many liberals picking up das Kapital and giving a critique to capitalism.

Supporting equality doesn't make someone a communist. Anarchists support equality, does this make them Marxists?

Saying that someone who promotes a capitalist mode of production is a communist is erroneous. Someone who promotes that is by definition not even a socialist, let alone a communist.

As a communist, I can assure you that liberals are not communists.
socialpinko
Posts: 10,458
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8/3/2014 5:09:40 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/30/2014 3:14:06 PM, Chimera wrote:
At 7/29/2014 9:22:35 PM, LogicalLunatic wrote:
I have made lots of troll threads, but this is not one of them.

Liberals possess an Egalitarian mindset. They fight for "LGBT Rights", Women's Rights, Black Rights, etc.
Communists believe that everyone should be equal.

Liberals believe that those darned rich people are ruining the economy by being so greedy and hoarding the money. Also, you believe that the poor should have access to Federal Aid.
Communists believe that there should be a moneyless, classless society where there is no ownership of property.

Basically, Communists are a slightly more radical version of you.
However, I am not trying to insult you. In fact, you should wear that label as a badge of honor (even though I disagree with a lot of the stuff mentioned above).
What do you think?

Liberals believe in maintaining the state and the capitalist mode of production. They don't even believe in socialist measures such as workers control of the means of production. Nor do they believe in Marx's analysis of history. I don't see too many liberals picking up das Kapital and giving a critique to capitalism.

Supporting equality doesn't make someone a communist. Anarchists support equality, does this make them Marxists?

Saying that someone who promotes a capitalist mode of production is a communist is erroneous. Someone who promotes that is by definition not even a socialist, let alone a communist.

As a communist, I can assure you that liberals are not communists.

I agree largely with this response. However, I don't think Marx's 'analysis of history' is an absolute requirement for identification as communist. But yeah I'm also sorta confused because I've never heard a liberal refer to themselves as a communist.
: At 9/29/2014 10:55:59 AM, imabench wrote:
: : At 9/29/2014 9:43:46 AM, kbub wrote:
: :
: : DDO should discredit support of sexual violence at any time and in every way.
:
: I disagree.
Chimera
Posts: 178
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8/3/2014 5:58:06 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/3/2014 5:09:40 PM, socialpinko wrote:
At 7/30/2014 3:14:06 PM, Chimera wrote:
At 7/29/2014 9:22:35 PM, LogicalLunatic wrote:
I have made lots of troll threads, but this is not one of them.

Liberals possess an Egalitarian mindset. They fight for "LGBT Rights", Women's Rights, Black Rights, etc.
Communists believe that everyone should be equal.

Liberals believe that those darned rich people are ruining the economy by being so greedy and hoarding the money. Also, you believe that the poor should have access to Federal Aid.
Communists believe that there should be a moneyless, classless society where there is no ownership of property.

Basically, Communists are a slightly more radical version of you.
However, I am not trying to insult you. In fact, you should wear that label as a badge of honor (even though I disagree with a lot of the stuff mentioned above).
What do you think?

Liberals believe in maintaining the state and the capitalist mode of production. They don't even believe in socialist measures such as workers control of the means of production. Nor do they believe in Marx's analysis of history. I don't see too many liberals picking up das Kapital and giving a critique to capitalism.

Supporting equality doesn't make someone a communist. Anarchists support equality, does this make them Marxists?

Saying that someone who promotes a capitalist mode of production is a communist is erroneous. Someone who promotes that is by definition not even a socialist, let alone a communist.

As a communist, I can assure you that liberals are not communists.

I agree largely with this response. However, I don't think Marx's 'analysis of history' is an absolute requirement for identification as communist. But yeah I'm also sorta confused because I've never heard a liberal refer to themselves as a communist.

Historical Materialism isn't an absolute requirement, but it's pretty common among communists to believe it to be true (to an extent).

Also, don't worry, you're not the only one who's confused here. To me, saying that liberals are communists is like saying that conservatives are feudalists. How conservatives can think up so much ignorance when it comes to leftist political and economic theory never ceases to amaze me.
socialpinko
Posts: 10,458
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8/3/2014 6:01:57 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/3/2014 5:58:06 PM, Chimera wrote:
At 8/3/2014 5:09:40 PM, socialpinko wrote:
At 7/30/2014 3:14:06 PM, Chimera wrote:
At 7/29/2014 9:22:35 PM, LogicalLunatic wrote:
I have made lots of troll threads, but this is not one of them.

Liberals possess an Egalitarian mindset. They fight for "LGBT Rights", Women's Rights, Black Rights, etc.
Communists believe that everyone should be equal.

Liberals believe that those darned rich people are ruining the economy by being so greedy and hoarding the money. Also, you believe that the poor should have access to Federal Aid.
Communists believe that there should be a moneyless, classless society where there is no ownership of property.

Basically, Communists are a slightly more radical version of you.
However, I am not trying to insult you. In fact, you should wear that label as a badge of honor (even though I disagree with a lot of the stuff mentioned above).
What do you think?

Liberals believe in maintaining the state and the capitalist mode of production. They don't even believe in socialist measures such as workers control of the means of production. Nor do they believe in Marx's analysis of history. I don't see too many liberals picking up das Kapital and giving a critique to capitalism.

Supporting equality doesn't make someone a communist. Anarchists support equality, does this make them Marxists?

Saying that someone who promotes a capitalist mode of production is a communist is erroneous. Someone who promotes that is by definition not even a socialist, let alone a communist.

As a communist, I can assure you that liberals are not communists.

I agree largely with this response. However, I don't think Marx's 'analysis of history' is an absolute requirement for identification as communist. But yeah I'm also sorta confused because I've never heard a liberal refer to themselves as a communist.

Historical Materialism isn't an absolute requirement, but it's pretty common among communists to believe it to be true (to an extent).

I don't see historical materialism as having really a place at all within contemporary communist (or Marxist) lit.

Also, don't worry, you're not the only one who's confused here. To me, saying that liberals are communists is like saying that conservatives are feudalists. How conservatives can think up so much ignorance when it comes to leftist political and economic theory never ceases to amaze me.
: At 9/29/2014 10:55:59 AM, imabench wrote:
: : At 9/29/2014 9:43:46 AM, kbub wrote:
: :
: : DDO should discredit support of sexual violence at any time and in every way.
:
: I disagree.
Chimera
Posts: 178
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8/3/2014 6:43:26 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/3/2014 6:01:57 PM, socialpinko wrote:
At 8/3/2014 5:58:06 PM, Chimera wrote:
At 8/3/2014 5:09:40 PM, socialpinko wrote:
At 7/30/2014 3:14:06 PM, Chimera wrote:
At 7/29/2014 9:22:35 PM, LogicalLunatic wrote:
I have made lots of troll threads, but this is not one of them.

Liberals possess an Egalitarian mindset. They fight for "LGBT Rights", Women's Rights, Black Rights, etc.
Communists believe that everyone should be equal.

Liberals believe that those darned rich people are ruining the economy by being so greedy and hoarding the money. Also, you believe that the poor should have access to Federal Aid.
Communists believe that there should be a moneyless, classless society where there is no ownership of property.

Basically, Communists are a slightly more radical version of you.
However, I am not trying to insult you. In fact, you should wear that label as a badge of honor (even though I disagree with a lot of the stuff mentioned above).
What do you think?

Liberals believe in maintaining the state and the capitalist mode of production. They don't even believe in socialist measures such as workers control of the means of production. Nor do they believe in Marx's analysis of history. I don't see too many liberals picking up das Kapital and giving a critique to capitalism.

Supporting equality doesn't make someone a communist. Anarchists support equality, does this make them Marxists?

Saying that someone who promotes a capitalist mode of production is a communist is erroneous. Someone who promotes that is by definition not even a socialist, let alone a communist.

As a communist, I can assure you that liberals are not communists.

I agree largely with this response. However, I don't think Marx's 'analysis of history' is an absolute requirement for identification as communist. But yeah I'm also sorta confused because I've never heard a liberal refer to themselves as a communist.

Historical Materialism isn't an absolute requirement, but it's pretty common among communists to believe it to be true (to an extent).

I don't see historical materialism as having really a place at all within contemporary communist (or Marxist) lit.

Maybe not within the economics of Marxism, but in regards to social history it holds some relevance.


Also, don't worry, you're not the only one who's confused here. To me, saying that liberals are communists is like saying that conservatives are feudalists. How conservatives can think up so much ignorance when it comes to leftist political and economic theory never ceases to amaze me.
socialpinko
Posts: 10,458
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8/3/2014 8:02:48 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/3/2014 6:43:26 PM, Chimera wrote:
At 8/3/2014 6:01:57 PM, socialpinko wrote:
At 8/3/2014 5:58:06 PM, Chimera wrote:
At 8/3/2014 5:09:40 PM, socialpinko wrote:
At 7/30/2014 3:14:06 PM, Chimera wrote:
At 7/29/2014 9:22:35 PM, LogicalLunatic wrote:
I have made lots of troll threads, but this is not one of them.

Liberals possess an Egalitarian mindset. They fight for "LGBT Rights", Women's Rights, Black Rights, etc.
Communists believe that everyone should be equal.

Liberals believe that those darned rich people are ruining the economy by being so greedy and hoarding the money. Also, you believe that the poor should have access to Federal Aid.
Communists believe that there should be a moneyless, classless society where there is no ownership of property.

Basically, Communists are a slightly more radical version of you.
However, I am not trying to insult you. In fact, you should wear that label as a badge of honor (even though I disagree with a lot of the stuff mentioned above).
What do you think?

Liberals believe in maintaining the state and the capitalist mode of production. They don't even believe in socialist measures such as workers control of the means of production. Nor do they believe in Marx's analysis of history. I don't see too many liberals picking up das Kapital and giving a critique to capitalism.

Supporting equality doesn't make someone a communist. Anarchists support equality, does this make them Marxists?

Saying that someone who promotes a capitalist mode of production is a communist is erroneous. Someone who promotes that is by definition not even a socialist, let alone a communist.

As a communist, I can assure you that liberals are not communists.

I agree largely with this response. However, I don't think Marx's 'analysis of history' is an absolute requirement for identification as communist. But yeah I'm also sorta confused because I've never heard a liberal refer to themselves as a communist.

Historical Materialism isn't an absolute requirement, but it's pretty common among communists to believe it to be true (to an extent).

I don't see historical materialism as having really a place at all within contemporary communist (or Marxist) lit.

Maybe not within the economics of Marxism, but in regards to social history it holds some relevance.

What do you mean by that?


Also, don't worry, you're not the only one who's confused here. To me, saying that liberals are communists is like saying that conservatives are feudalists. How conservatives can think up so much ignorance when it comes to leftist political and economic theory never ceases to amaze me.
: At 9/29/2014 10:55:59 AM, imabench wrote:
: : At 9/29/2014 9:43:46 AM, kbub wrote:
: :
: : DDO should discredit support of sexual violence at any time and in every way.
:
: I disagree.
Chimera
Posts: 178
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8/3/2014 8:43:00 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/3/2014 8:02:48 PM, socialpinko wrote:
At 8/3/2014 6:43:26 PM, Chimera wrote:
At 8/3/2014 6:01:57 PM, socialpinko wrote:
At 8/3/2014 5:58:06 PM, Chimera wrote:
At 8/3/2014 5:09:40 PM, socialpinko wrote:
At 7/30/2014 3:14:06 PM, Chimera wrote:
At 7/29/2014 9:22:35 PM, LogicalLunatic wrote:
I have made lots of troll threads, but this is not one of them.

Liberals possess an Egalitarian mindset. They fight for "LGBT Rights", Women's Rights, Black Rights, etc.
Communists believe that everyone should be equal.

Liberals believe that those darned rich people are ruining the economy by being so greedy and hoarding the money. Also, you believe that the poor should have access to Federal Aid.
Communists believe that there should be a moneyless, classless society where there is no ownership of property.

Basically, Communists are a slightly more radical version of you.
However, I am not trying to insult you. In fact, you should wear that label as a badge of honor (even though I disagree with a lot of the stuff mentioned above).
What do you think?

Liberals believe in maintaining the state and the capitalist mode of production. They don't even believe in socialist measures such as workers control of the means of production. Nor do they believe in Marx's analysis of history. I don't see too many liberals picking up das Kapital and giving a critique to capitalism.

Supporting equality doesn't make someone a communist. Anarchists support equality, does this make them Marxists?

Saying that someone who promotes a capitalist mode of production is a communist is erroneous. Someone who promotes that is by definition not even a socialist, let alone a communist.

As a communist, I can assure you that liberals are not communists.

I agree largely with this response. However, I don't think Marx's 'analysis of history' is an absolute requirement for identification as communist. But yeah I'm also sorta confused because I've never heard a liberal refer to themselves as a communist.

Historical Materialism isn't an absolute requirement, but it's pretty common among communists to believe it to be true (to an extent).

I don't see historical materialism as having really a place at all within contemporary communist (or Marxist) lit.

Maybe not within the economics of Marxism, but in regards to social history it holds some relevance.

What do you mean by that?

Well, when I think of Marxism, I think of it branching into three major subjects. Philosophy (dialectical materialism), economics (LTV), and social history (historical materialism). So, what I am basically saying is that yes, historical materialism holds no real relevance in regards to economics or philosophy. However, It does hold value in the sense that is provides a way to see how the social progress of history is guided by the progress of material/productive forces (like technology). In this sense, historical materialism is a way of explaining the events of history, and why revolution occurs when production relations in a given structure can no longer support progress of productive forces.

However, I might be wrong (since i'm not exactly the brightest when it comes to Marxist theory) and if you could correct me on this I would appreciate it.



Also, don't worry, you're not the only one who's confused here. To me, saying that liberals are communists is like saying that conservatives are feudalists. How conservatives can think up so much ignorance when it comes to leftist political and economic theory never ceases to amaze me.
Wocambs
Posts: 1,505
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8/4/2014 12:45:56 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/3/2014 5:58:06 PM, Chimera wrote:
How conservatives can think up so much ignorance when it comes to leftist political and economic theory never ceases to amaze me.

I like this a lot.
socialpinko
Posts: 10,458
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8/4/2014 3:21:40 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/3/2014 8:43:00 PM, Chimera wrote:
At 8/3/2014 8:02:48 PM, socialpinko wrote:
What do you mean by that?

Well, when I think of Marxism, I think of it branching into three major subjects. Philosophy (dialectical materialism), economics (LTV), and social history (historical materialism). So, what I am basically saying is that yes, historical materialism holds no real relevance in regards to economics or philosophy. However, It does hold value in the sense that is provides a way to see how the social progress of history is guided by the progress of material/productive forces (like technology). In this sense, historical materialism is a way of explaining the events of history, and why revolution occurs when production relations in a given structure can no longer support progress of productive forces.

Contemporary Marxism (and Marxism-informed writing) isn't as cut and dry as that. The original antagonistic distinction between productive forces and relations of production under capitalism (which Marx argued economically necessitated conflict between classes and eventually revolution) has been revised heavily since at least the 1960's. Different Marxists have different views on how exactly this relationship has shifted (even how the very planes of antagonism are defined) but it's now seen as not so cut and dry. The end of actually existing socialism, failing of the welfare state, the neoliberal consensus, the shift from physical labor to information, the informing of Marxism by poststructuralist philosophy, etc. have all affected how one sees this relationship and what that means for a possible shift in the global economic order. Marx's economism is also heavily called into question and has been in revision since as far back as Lenin. Post-Marxism appears imo to be the only acceptable way of incorporating Marx's work into our age. Dialectical materialism, the inevitability of revolution and communism, incorporation of the State as a catalyst for revolutionary change, the place of the totality in his philosophy, his ignorance of intersectionality in regards to working class oppression, (understandable) ignorance of changes in media and failure to incorporate cultural hegemony, radically elementary theory of subjectivity construction, etc. are all problems which are either in need of or are in the process of revision. That isn't to say that Marxism as a way of understanding and changing society is dead. It's just that it must change with changing social and economic conditions. I presume Marx (who was big on pointing out the contingency of economic systems and superstructural theoretical models) would understand ;)

However, I might be wrong (since i'm not exactly the brightest when it comes to Marxist theory) and if you could correct me on this I would appreciate it.
: At 9/29/2014 10:55:59 AM, imabench wrote:
: : At 9/29/2014 9:43:46 AM, kbub wrote:
: :
: : DDO should discredit support of sexual violence at any time and in every way.
:
: I disagree.