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Death Penalty?

Mirza
Posts: 16,992
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7/30/2014 3:17:09 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
I don't rule it out. It's not entirely safeguard from errors, and one innocent life taken away by error is unacceptable. Almost nothing is perfect nonetheless. I accept its use entirely for violating serious contracts, such as something that involves treason by state officials or military men.

There is a humane aspect to it, which I believe is sometimes good, where instead of letting a criminal rot in prison, that we end his life. Sometimes people tend to commit the most serious crimes, but are perhaps not inherently evil, and should be spared of torment.
Otokage
Posts: 2,347
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7/30/2014 3:42:06 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
I'm against death penalty, since it is opening the door of killing inocent people. If you imprison someone, there's always the chance that you free him if he is found inocent later, but if you kill him, well, sadly you can not resurrect him.

About sparing someone's torment, I tend to agree if the prisoner agrees that he wants to die rather than being imprisoned. However, there's still the problem that the prisoner may be inocent (and he has abandoned the hope of being declared inocent), or that he is being coerced to ask for the death penalty.

In summary, I'm against death penalty.
ClassicRobert
Posts: 2,487
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7/30/2014 4:21:54 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
There are a lot of lesser things that I don't see as the role of government, so I don't see why I would try to make "killing civilians" fit within the role.
Debate me: Economic decision theory should be adjusted to include higher-order preferences for non-normative purposes http://www.debate.org...

Do you really believe that? Or not? If you believe it, you should man up and defend it in a debate. -RoyLatham

My Pet Fish is such a Douche- NiamC

It's an app to meet friends and stuff, sort of like an adult club penguin- Thett3, describing Tinder
thett3
Posts: 14,338
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7/30/2014 5:13:21 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
The death penalty is an important punishment symbolically, but much of it's value is lost in the way the United States applies it.

Executions should be rare, quick, and (most importantly) public.
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YYW
Posts: 36,282
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7/30/2014 10:03:49 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/30/2014 5:13:21 PM, thett3 wrote:
The death penalty is an important punishment symbolically, but much of it's value is lost in the way the United States applies it.

Executions should be rare, quick, and (most importantly) public.

What method? Firing squad? Hanging? Ye olde guillotine?
Tsar of DDO
YYW
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7/30/2014 10:04:41 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/30/2014 4:21:54 PM, ClassicRobert wrote:
There are a lot of lesser things that I don't see as the role of government, so I don't see why I would try to make "killing civilians" fit within the role.

I think my thoughts on the matter very closely parallel the principle behind your thought, there.
Tsar of DDO
xXCryptoXx
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7/30/2014 10:28:06 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/30/2014 10:03:49 PM, YYW wrote:
At 7/30/2014 5:13:21 PM, thett3 wrote:
The death penalty is an important punishment symbolically, but much of it's value is lost in the way the United States applies it.

Executions should be rare, quick, and (most importantly) public.

What method? Firing squad? Hanging? Ye olde guillotine?

Death by giant blender. And force the public to watch it. Then no one will commit crimes obviously.
Nolite Timere
YYW
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7/30/2014 10:29:50 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/30/2014 10:28:06 PM, xXCryptoXx wrote:
At 7/30/2014 10:03:49 PM, YYW wrote:
At 7/30/2014 5:13:21 PM, thett3 wrote:
The death penalty is an important punishment symbolically, but much of it's value is lost in the way the United States applies it.

Executions should be rare, quick, and (most importantly) public.

What method? Firing squad? Hanging? Ye olde guillotine?

Death by giant blender. And force the public to watch it. Then no one will commit crimes obviously.

Try again.
Tsar of DDO
xXCryptoXx
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7/30/2014 10:32:19 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
I'm against the death penalty. Overall I don't see much of a point to it. The government is basically saying "If we think you are bad enough we can kill you." I don't like that, especially in the instance of a tyrannical government. More importantly though, as a Christian-Catholic I believe everyone should have the right to life no matter what, and that no man can take that right away.

I think the jail system needs to be reformed. No more cushy cushy prisons. Prisoners should be subjected to hard labor, and then time would be set aside to educate prisoners and perhaps guide them to a life of productivity after they are (if they are to be) released from prison. Obviously nothing is being accomplished when we put a man in prison, do nothing with him, then send him back into society.
Nolite Timere
xXCryptoXx
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7/30/2014 10:33:50 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/30/2014 10:29:50 PM, YYW wrote:
At 7/30/2014 10:28:06 PM, xXCryptoXx wrote:
At 7/30/2014 10:03:49 PM, YYW wrote:
At 7/30/2014 5:13:21 PM, thett3 wrote:
The death penalty is an important punishment symbolically, but much of it's value is lost in the way the United States applies it.

Executions should be rare, quick, and (most importantly) public.

What method? Firing squad? Hanging? Ye olde guillotine?

Death by giant blender. And force the public to watch it. Then no one will commit crimes obviously.

Try again.

I am sure it would be highly effective.
Nolite Timere
YYW
Posts: 36,282
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7/30/2014 10:49:49 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/30/2014 10:32:19 PM, xXCryptoXx wrote:
I'm against the death penalty. Overall I don't see much of a point to it. The government is basically saying "If we think you are bad enough we can kill you." I don't like that, especially in the instance of a tyrannical government. More importantly though, as a Christian-Catholic I believe everyone should have the right to life no matter what, and that no man can take that right away.

Good.

I think the jail system needs to be reformed. No more cushy cushy prisons. Prisoners should be subjected to hard labor, and then time would be set aside to educate prisoners and perhaps guide them to a life of productivity after they are (if they are to be) released from prison. Obviously nothing is being accomplished when we put a man in prison, do nothing with him, then send him back into society.

You should read Gulag Archipelago and Crime and Punishment.
Tsar of DDO
ClassicRobert
Posts: 2,487
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7/30/2014 10:50:17 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/30/2014 10:32:19 PM, xXCryptoXx wrote:
I'm against the death penalty. Overall I don't see much of a point to it. The government is basically saying "If we think you are bad enough we can kill you." I don't like that, especially in the instance of a tyrannical government. More importantly though, as a Christian-Catholic I believe everyone should have the right to life no matter what, and that no man can take that right away.

I think the jail system needs to be reformed. No more cushy cushy prisons. Prisoners should be subjected to hard labor, and then time would be set aside to educate prisoners and perhaps guide them to a life of productivity after they are (if they are to be) released from prison. Obviously nothing is being accomplished when we put a man in prison, do nothing with him, then send him back into society.

If the goal is to get them to be productive members of society after prison, creating more psychologically harsh systems of punishment (like slavery?) doesn't really seem like a responsible decision.
Debate me: Economic decision theory should be adjusted to include higher-order preferences for non-normative purposes http://www.debate.org...

Do you really believe that? Or not? If you believe it, you should man up and defend it in a debate. -RoyLatham

My Pet Fish is such a Douche- NiamC

It's an app to meet friends and stuff, sort of like an adult club penguin- Thett3, describing Tinder
xXCryptoXx
Posts: 5,000
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7/30/2014 10:57:22 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/30/2014 10:50:17 PM, ClassicRobert wrote:
At 7/30/2014 10:32:19 PM, xXCryptoXx wrote:
I'm against the death penalty. Overall I don't see much of a point to it. The government is basically saying "If we think you are bad enough we can kill you." I don't like that, especially in the instance of a tyrannical government. More importantly though, as a Christian-Catholic I believe everyone should have the right to life no matter what, and that no man can take that right away.

I think the jail system needs to be reformed. No more cushy cushy prisons. Prisoners should be subjected to hard labor, and then time would be set aside to educate prisoners and perhaps guide them to a life of productivity after they are (if they are to be) released from prison. Obviously nothing is being accomplished when we put a man in prison, do nothing with him, then send him back into society.

If the goal is to get them to be productive members of society after prison, creating more psychologically harsh systems of punishment (like slavery?) doesn't really seem like a responsible decision.

Not slavery. Productive hard labor. It is actually rather psychologically healthy. Its not like prisoners are being tortured or anything.
Nolite Timere
xXCryptoXx
Posts: 5,000
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7/30/2014 10:57:58 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/30/2014 10:49:49 PM, YYW wrote:
At 7/30/2014 10:32:19 PM, xXCryptoXx wrote:
I'm against the death penalty. Overall I don't see much of a point to it. The government is basically saying "If we think you are bad enough we can kill you." I don't like that, especially in the instance of a tyrannical government. More importantly though, as a Christian-Catholic I believe everyone should have the right to life no matter what, and that no man can take that right away.

Good.

Wow, we actually agree on something? lol

I think the jail system needs to be reformed. No more cushy cushy prisons. Prisoners should be subjected to hard labor, and then time would be set aside to educate prisoners and perhaps guide them to a life of productivity after they are (if they are to be) released from prison. Obviously nothing is being accomplished when we put a man in prison, do nothing with him, then send him back into society.

You should read Gulag Archipelago and Crime and Punishment.
Nolite Timere
ClassicRobert
Posts: 2,487
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7/30/2014 11:02:58 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/30/2014 10:57:22 PM, xXCryptoXx wrote:
At 7/30/2014 10:50:17 PM, ClassicRobert wrote:
At 7/30/2014 10:32:19 PM, xXCryptoXx wrote:
I'm against the death penalty. Overall I don't see much of a point to it. The government is basically saying "If we think you are bad enough we can kill you." I don't like that, especially in the instance of a tyrannical government. More importantly though, as a Christian-Catholic I believe everyone should have the right to life no matter what, and that no man can take that right away.

I think the jail system needs to be reformed. No more cushy cushy prisons. Prisoners should be subjected to hard labor, and then time would be set aside to educate prisoners and perhaps guide them to a life of productivity after they are (if they are to be) released from prison. Obviously nothing is being accomplished when we put a man in prison, do nothing with him, then send him back into society.

If the goal is to get them to be productive members of society after prison, creating more psychologically harsh systems of punishment (like slavery?) doesn't really seem like a responsible decision.

Not slavery. Productive hard labor. It is actually rather psychologically healthy. Its not like prisoners are being tortured or anything.

I'd be hard pressed to find a psychological paper saying that hard labor is healthy. Maybe you and I are thinking of hard labor in a different sense- how would you define hard labor?
Debate me: Economic decision theory should be adjusted to include higher-order preferences for non-normative purposes http://www.debate.org...

Do you really believe that? Or not? If you believe it, you should man up and defend it in a debate. -RoyLatham

My Pet Fish is such a Douche- NiamC

It's an app to meet friends and stuff, sort of like an adult club penguin- Thett3, describing Tinder
xXCryptoXx
Posts: 5,000
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7/30/2014 11:08:08 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/30/2014 11:02:58 PM, ClassicRobert wrote:
At 7/30/2014 10:57:22 PM, xXCryptoXx wrote:
At 7/30/2014 10:50:17 PM, ClassicRobert wrote:
At 7/30/2014 10:32:19 PM, xXCryptoXx wrote:
I'm against the death penalty. Overall I don't see much of a point to it. The government is basically saying "If we think you are bad enough we can kill you." I don't like that, especially in the instance of a tyrannical government. More importantly though, as a Christian-Catholic I believe everyone should have the right to life no matter what, and that no man can take that right away.

I think the jail system needs to be reformed. No more cushy cushy prisons. Prisoners should be subjected to hard labor, and then time would be set aside to educate prisoners and perhaps guide them to a life of productivity after they are (if they are to be) released from prison. Obviously nothing is being accomplished when we put a man in prison, do nothing with him, then send him back into society.

If the goal is to get them to be productive members of society after prison, creating more psychologically harsh systems of punishment (like slavery?) doesn't really seem like a responsible decision.

Not slavery. Productive hard labor. It is actually rather psychologically healthy. Its not like prisoners are being tortured or anything.

I'd be hard pressed to find a psychological paper saying that hard labor is healthy. Maybe you and I are thinking of hard labor in a different sense- how would you define hard labor?

Not mindlessly hitting a rock with a pickaxe. Productive work. Work with a goal.
Nolite Timere
YYW
Posts: 36,282
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7/30/2014 11:33:48 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/30/2014 10:57:58 PM, xXCryptoXx wrote:
At 7/30/2014 10:49:49 PM, YYW wrote:
At 7/30/2014 10:32:19 PM, xXCryptoXx wrote:
I'm against the death penalty. Overall I don't see much of a point to it. The government is basically saying "If we think you are bad enough we can kill you." I don't like that, especially in the instance of a tyrannical government. More importantly though, as a Christian-Catholic I believe everyone should have the right to life no matter what, and that no man can take that right away.

Good.

Wow, we actually agree on something? lol

We're both from Christian backgrounds, Crypto. I think we probably agree on a lot more than we disagree about, on that basis -politics aside.

I think the jail system needs to be reformed. No more cushy cushy prisons. Prisoners should be subjected to hard labor, and then time would be set aside to educate prisoners and perhaps guide them to a life of productivity after they are (if they are to be) released from prison. Obviously nothing is being accomplished when we put a man in prison, do nothing with him, then send him back into society.

You should read Gulag Archipelago and Crime and Punishment.
Tsar of DDO
xXCryptoXx
Posts: 5,000
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7/30/2014 11:38:34 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/30/2014 11:33:48 PM, YYW wrote:
At 7/30/2014 10:57:58 PM, xXCryptoXx wrote:
At 7/30/2014 10:49:49 PM, YYW wrote:
At 7/30/2014 10:32:19 PM, xXCryptoXx wrote:
I'm against the death penalty. Overall I don't see much of a point to it. The government is basically saying "If we think you are bad enough we can kill you." I don't like that, especially in the instance of a tyrannical government. More importantly though, as a Christian-Catholic I believe everyone should have the right to life no matter what, and that no man can take that right away.

Good.

Wow, we actually agree on something? lol

We're both from Christian backgrounds, Crypto. I think we probably agree on a lot more than we disagree about, on that basis -politics aside.

I thought you were more Christian by name than by beliefs.

I think the jail system needs to be reformed. No more cushy cushy prisons. Prisoners should be subjected to hard labor, and then time would be set aside to educate prisoners and perhaps guide them to a life of productivity after they are (if they are to be) released from prison. Obviously nothing is being accomplished when we put a man in prison, do nothing with him, then send him back into society.

You should read Gulag Archipelago and Crime and Punishment.
Nolite Timere
YYW
Posts: 36,282
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7/30/2014 11:39:36 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/30/2014 11:38:34 PM, xXCryptoXx wrote:
At 7/30/2014 11:33:48 PM, YYW wrote:
At 7/30/2014 10:57:58 PM, xXCryptoXx wrote:
At 7/30/2014 10:49:49 PM, YYW wrote:
At 7/30/2014 10:32:19 PM, xXCryptoXx wrote:
I'm against the death penalty. Overall I don't see much of a point to it. The government is basically saying "If we think you are bad enough we can kill you." I don't like that, especially in the instance of a tyrannical government. More importantly though, as a Christian-Catholic I believe everyone should have the right to life no matter what, and that no man can take that right away.

Good.

Wow, we actually agree on something? lol

We're both from Christian backgrounds, Crypto. I think we probably agree on a lot more than we disagree about, on that basis -politics aside.

I thought you were more Christian by name than by beliefs.

You would be mistaken in that thought. I'm just a lot less prudish than, I suspect, most of the people you're used to.

I think the jail system needs to be reformed. No more cushy cushy prisons. Prisoners should be subjected to hard labor, and then time would be set aside to educate prisoners and perhaps guide them to a life of productivity after they are (if they are to be) released from prison. Obviously nothing is being accomplished when we put a man in prison, do nothing with him, then send him back into society.

You should read Gulag Archipelago and Crime and Punishment.
Tsar of DDO
xXCryptoXx
Posts: 5,000
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7/30/2014 11:43:28 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/30/2014 11:39:36 PM, YYW wrote:
At 7/30/2014 11:38:34 PM, xXCryptoXx wrote:
At 7/30/2014 11:33:48 PM, YYW wrote:
At 7/30/2014 10:57:58 PM, xXCryptoXx wrote:
At 7/30/2014 10:49:49 PM, YYW wrote:
At 7/30/2014 10:32:19 PM, xXCryptoXx wrote:
I'm against the death penalty. Overall I don't see much of a point to it. The government is basically saying "If we think you are bad enough we can kill you." I don't like that, especially in the instance of a tyrannical government. More importantly though, as a Christian-Catholic I believe everyone should have the right to life no matter what, and that no man can take that right away.

Good.

Wow, we actually agree on something? lol

We're both from Christian backgrounds, Crypto. I think we probably agree on a lot more than we disagree about, on that basis -politics aside.

I thought you were more Christian by name than by beliefs.

You would be mistaken in that thought. I'm just a lot less prudish than, I suspect, most of the people you're used to.

Perhaps. I think the reason I thought you were more Christian by name only is because I don't think many of your beliefs on social issues are reconcilable with Christian teachings.

I think the jail system needs to be reformed. No more cushy cushy prisons. Prisoners should be subjected to hard labor, and then time would be set aside to educate prisoners and perhaps guide them to a life of productivity after they are (if they are to be) released from prison. Obviously nothing is being accomplished when we put a man in prison, do nothing with him, then send him back into society.

You should read Gulag Archipelago and Crime and Punishment.
Nolite Timere
YYW
Posts: 36,282
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7/30/2014 11:45:03 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/30/2014 11:43:28 PM, xXCryptoXx wrote:
At 7/30/2014 11:39:36 PM, YYW wrote:
At 7/30/2014 11:38:34 PM, xXCryptoXx wrote:
At 7/30/2014 11:33:48 PM, YYW wrote:
At 7/30/2014 10:57:58 PM, xXCryptoXx wrote:
At 7/30/2014 10:49:49 PM, YYW wrote:
At 7/30/2014 10:32:19 PM, xXCryptoXx wrote:
I'm against the death penalty. Overall I don't see much of a point to it. The government is basically saying "If we think you are bad enough we can kill you." I don't like that, especially in the instance of a tyrannical government. More importantly though, as a Christian-Catholic I believe everyone should have the right to life no matter what, and that no man can take that right away.

Good.

Wow, we actually agree on something? lol

We're both from Christian backgrounds, Crypto. I think we probably agree on a lot more than we disagree about, on that basis -politics aside.

I thought you were more Christian by name than by beliefs.

You would be mistaken in that thought. I'm just a lot less prudish than, I suspect, most of the people you're used to.

Perhaps. I think the reason I thought you were more Christian by name only is because I don't think many of your beliefs on social issues are reconcilable with Christian teachings.

That would be because you measure the extent to which you believe someone is a Christian by conformity with your own beliefs -which isn't really the way to do it.

I think the jail system needs to be reformed. No more cushy cushy prisons. Prisoners should be subjected to hard labor, and then time would be set aside to educate prisoners and perhaps guide them to a life of productivity after they are (if they are to be) released from prison. Obviously nothing is being accomplished when we put a man in prison, do nothing with him, then send him back into society.

You should read Gulag Archipelago and Crime and Punishment.
Tsar of DDO
xXCryptoXx
Posts: 5,000
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7/31/2014 12:00:19 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/30/2014 11:45:03 PM, YYW wrote:
At 7/30/2014 11:43:28 PM, xXCryptoXx wrote:
At 7/30/2014 11:39:36 PM, YYW wrote:
At 7/30/2014 11:38:34 PM, xXCryptoXx wrote:
At 7/30/2014 11:33:48 PM, YYW wrote:
At 7/30/2014 10:57:58 PM, xXCryptoXx wrote:
At 7/30/2014 10:49:49 PM, YYW wrote:
At 7/30/2014 10:32:19 PM, xXCryptoXx wrote:
I'm against the death penalty. Overall I don't see much of a point to it. The government is basically saying "If we think you are bad enough we can kill you." I don't like that, especially in the instance of a tyrannical government. More importantly though, as a Christian-Catholic I believe everyone should have the right to life no matter what, and that no man can take that right away.

Good.

Wow, we actually agree on something? lol

We're both from Christian backgrounds, Crypto. I think we probably agree on a lot more than we disagree about, on that basis -politics aside.

I thought you were more Christian by name than by beliefs.

You would be mistaken in that thought. I'm just a lot less prudish than, I suspect, most of the people you're used to.

Perhaps. I think the reason I thought you were more Christian by name only is because I don't think many of your beliefs on social issues are reconcilable with Christian teachings.

That would be because you measure the extent to which you believe someone is a Christian by conformity with your own beliefs -which isn't really the way to do it.

Maybe.

I think the jail system needs to be reformed. No more cushy cushy prisons. Prisoners should be subjected to hard labor, and then time would be set aside to educate prisoners and perhaps guide them to a life of productivity after they are (if they are to be) released from prison. Obviously nothing is being accomplished when we put a man in prison, do nothing with him, then send him back into society.

You should read Gulag Archipelago and Crime and Punishment.
Nolite Timere
Banafsigi
Posts: 34
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8/1/2014 12:11:50 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/30/2014 3:10:51 PM, YYW wrote:
How do you all feel about it?

What method is preferable? Why?

I'm all for it but only if it is the next of kin of the victim that pulls the switch or administers the lethal injection.

I'm pretty sure that on judgement day God will be asking the executioners why they killed people who had done them no personal harm.
phantom
Posts: 6,774
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8/1/2014 6:26:56 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/30/2014 3:10:51 PM, YYW wrote:
How do you all feel about it?

What method is preferable? Why?

Since free will does not exist in at least the way people think it to be, the justice system should be geared towards rehabilitation as much as possible. The state ending someone's life for a crime is morally repulsive to me. We tend to hold people responsible for factors outside of their control.
"Music is a zen-like ecstatic state where you become the new man of the future, the Nietzschean merger of Apollo and Dionysus." Ray Manzarek (The Doors)