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Dr_Obvious
Posts: 551
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9/1/2014 8:02:41 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
What Happened to Chicago"s Crime Rate When Illinois Relaxed Gun Control Laws?

Robberies leading to an arrest...Down 20%
Burglary reports...Down 20%
Vehicle theft reports...down 26%
Chicago's homicide rate in the first quarter...56 year low.

These figures are expected to continue to drop. You gun control nuts just got owned. Here is proof that private ownership of guns reduces crime. Read it weep.
Chessie
Posts: 2
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9/2/2014 4:18:03 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/1/2014 8:02:41 PM, Dr_Obvious wrote:
What Happened to Chicago"s Crime Rate When Illinois Relaxed Gun Control Laws?

Robberies leading to an arrest...Down 20%
Burglary reports...Down 20%
Vehicle theft reports...down 26%
Chicago's homicide rate in the first quarter...56 year low.

These figures are expected to continue to drop. You gun control nuts just got owned. Here is proof that private ownership of guns reduces crime. Read it weep.

As an Australian where gun control is very restrictive, I do really think that gun control laws are important. I think the thing that terrifies me the most about the relaxed gun laws in America is the amount of school shootings that occur. In Australia, straight after the infamous Port Arthur Massacre in Tasmania, our Prime Minister quickly laid down some strict gun control laws. Since then, we've had four school shootings in total. While in America, in May this year ALONE there were 5 school shootings! Even Barack Obama made statements back in June praising our federal government's quick reaction to the Port Arthur massacre, while America, despite the very recent and major massacres that have occurred, still has made no effort to change these laws. (However I am aware that Obama isn't particularly popular among many Americans so this statement probably didn't change the minds of many people)

It's clear that you're more interested in statistics, so rather than looking at a state level, how about we look at this internationally? If we combine the populations of the Great Britain, Sweden, Japan, France, Germany, Denmark and Australia, we have a population that is approximately the size of the US. While the US had 30,000 gun related deaths last year, they had 112.
Experts from the Harvard School of Public Health, using data from 26 developed countries, have shown that wherever there are more firearms, there are more homicides. In the case of the United States, exponentially more: the American murder rate is roughly 15 times that of other wealthy countries, which have much tougher laws controlling private ownership of guns.
The American Journal of Law and Economics reported in 2010 that firearm homicides in Australia dropped 59 percent between 1995 (a year before the strict gun control laws were installed) and 2006. In the 18 years before the 1996 laws, there were 13 gun massacres resulting in 102 deaths, according to Harvard researchers, with none in that category since.

As Mayor Michael Bloomberg stated in 2012 after the Newtown School Shootings, "We are the only industrialized country that has this problem. In the whole world, the only one."
Dr_Obvious
Posts: 551
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9/2/2014 10:24:14 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/2/2014 4:18:03 AM, Chessie wrote:
At 9/1/2014 8:02:41 PM, Dr_Obvious wrote:
What Happened to Chicago"s Crime Rate When Illinois Relaxed Gun Control Laws?

Robberies leading to an arrest...Down 20%
Burglary reports...Down 20%
Vehicle theft reports...down 26%
Chicago's homicide rate in the first quarter...56 year low.

These figures are expected to continue to drop. You gun control nuts just got owned. Here is proof that private ownership of guns reduces crime. Read it weep.

As an Australian where gun control is very restrictive, I do really think that gun control laws are important. I think the thing that terrifies me the most about the relaxed gun laws in America is the amount of school shootings that occur. In Australia, straight after the infamous Port Arthur Massacre in Tasmania, our Prime Minister quickly laid down some strict gun control laws. Since then, we've had four school shootings in total. While in America, in May this year ALONE there were 5 school shootings! Even Barack Obama made statements back in June praising our federal government's quick reaction to the Port Arthur massacre, while America, despite the very recent and major massacres that have occurred, still has made no effort to change these laws. (However I am aware that Obama isn't particularly popular among many Americans so this statement probably didn't change the minds of many people)

It's clear that you're more interested in statistics, so rather than looking at a state level, how about we look at this internationally? If we combine the populations of the Great Britain, Sweden, Japan, France, Germany, Denmark and Australia, we have a population that is approximately the size of the US. While the US had 30,000 gun related deaths last year, they had 112.
Experts from the Harvard School of Public Health, using data from 26 developed countries, have shown that wherever there are more firearms, there are more homicides. In the case of the United States, exponentially more: the American murder rate is roughly 15 times that of other wealthy countries, which have much tougher laws controlling private ownership of guns.
The American Journal of Law and Economics reported in 2010 that firearm homicides in Australia dropped 59 percent between 1995 (a year before the strict gun control laws were installed) and 2006. In the 18 years before the 1996 laws, there were 13 gun massacres resulting in 102 deaths, according to Harvard researchers, with none in that category since.

As Mayor Michael Bloomberg stated in 2012 after the Newtown School Shootings, "We are the only industrialized country that has this problem. In the whole world, the only one."

When are people going to get it through their thick heads that guns aren't problem? Look at places like Switzerland. Lots of guns, but you don't see people running around shooting school kids. A gun can't kill someone by itself. It needs a person to pull the trigger. Don't ban the gun. Just start shooting everyone who uses one in a crime. Even if it's not an effective deterrent, you'll get rid of all the problem, eventually.
Juris_Naturalis
Posts: 273
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9/2/2014 3:09:45 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/1/2014 8:02:41 PM, Dr_Obvious wrote:
What Happened to Chicago"s Crime Rate When Illinois Relaxed Gun Control Laws?

Robberies leading to an arrest...Down 20%
Burglary reports...Down 20%
Vehicle theft reports...down 26%
Chicago's homicide rate in the first quarter...56 year low.

These figures are expected to continue to drop. You gun control nuts just got owned. Here is proof that private ownership of guns reduces crime. Read it weep.

Careful how you word things. It should read, "Here is a case where crime has dropped after loosening gun laws, rather than restricting them".
Juris_Naturalis
Posts: 273
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9/2/2014 3:10:43 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/2/2014 4:18:03 AM, Chessie wrote:
At 9/1/2014 8:02:41 PM, Dr_Obvious wrote:
What Happened to Chicago"s Crime Rate When Illinois Relaxed Gun Control Laws?

Robberies leading to an arrest...Down 20%
Burglary reports...Down 20%
Vehicle theft reports...down 26%
Chicago's homicide rate in the first quarter...56 year low.

These figures are expected to continue to drop. You gun control nuts just got owned. Here is proof that private ownership of guns reduces crime. Read it weep.

As an Australian where gun control is very restrictive, I do really think that gun control laws are important. I think the thing that terrifies me the most about the relaxed gun laws in America is the amount of school shootings that occur. In Australia, straight after the infamous Port Arthur Massacre in Tasmania, our Prime Minister quickly laid down some strict gun control laws. Since then, we've had four school shootings in total. While in America, in May this year ALONE there were 5 school shootings! Even Barack Obama made statements back in June praising our federal government's quick reaction to the Port Arthur massacre, while America, despite the very recent and major massacres that have occurred, still has made no effort to change these laws. (However I am aware that Obama isn't particularly popular among many Americans so this statement probably didn't change the minds of many people)

It's clear that you're more interested in statistics, so rather than looking at a state level, how about we look at this internationally? If we combine the populations of the Great Britain, Sweden, Japan, France, Germany, Denmark and Australia, we have a population that is approximately the size of the US. While the US had 30,000 gun related deaths last year, they had 112.
Experts from the Harvard School of Public Health, using data from 26 developed countries, have shown that wherever there are more firearms, there are more homicides. In the case of the United States, exponentially more: the American murder rate is roughly 15 times that of other wealthy countries, which have much tougher laws controlling private ownership of guns.
The American Journal of Law and Economics reported in 2010 that firearm homicides in Australia dropped 59 percent between 1995 (a year before the strict gun control laws were installed) and 2006. In the 18 years before the 1996 laws, there were 13 gun massacres resulting in 102 deaths, according to Harvard researchers, with none in that category since.

As Mayor Michael Bloomberg stated in 2012 after the Newtown School Shootings, "We are the only industrialized country that has this problem. In the whole world, the only one."

I could counter your statistics by saying that we have, oh I don't know, maybe 10x the gang activity that most europeans do?
Chessie
Posts: 2
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9/3/2014 4:55:10 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/2/2014 10:24:14 AM, Dr_Obvious wrote:
At 9/2/2014 4:18:03 AM, Chessie wrote:
At 9/1/2014 8:02:41 PM, Dr_Obvious wrote:
What Happened to Chicago"s Crime Rate When Illinois Relaxed Gun Control Laws?

Robberies leading to an arrest...Down 20%
Burglary reports...Down 20%
Vehicle theft reports...down 26%
Chicago's homicide rate in the first quarter...56 year low.

These figures are expected to continue to drop. You gun control nuts just got owned. Here is proof that private ownership of guns reduces crime. Read it weep.

As an Australian where gun control is very restrictive, I do really think that gun control laws are important. I think the thing that terrifies me the most about the relaxed gun laws in America is the amount of school shootings that occur. In Australia, straight after the infamous Port Arthur Massacre in Tasmania, our Prime Minister quickly laid down some strict gun control laws. Since then, we've had four school shootings in total. While in America, in May this year ALONE there were 5 school shootings! Even Barack Obama made statements back in June praising our federal government's quick reaction to the Port Arthur massacre, while America, despite the very recent and major massacres that have occurred, still has made no effort to change these laws. (However I am aware that Obama isn't particularly popular among many Americans so this statement probably didn't change the minds of many people)

It's clear that you're more interested in statistics, so rather than looking at a state level, how about we look at this internationally? If we combine the populations of the Great Britain, Sweden, Japan, France, Germany, Denmark and Australia, we have a population that is approximately the size of the US. While the US had 30,000 gun related deaths last year, they had 112.
Experts from the Harvard School of Public Health, using data from 26 developed countries, have shown that wherever there are more firearms, there are more homicides. In the case of the United States, exponentially more: the American murder rate is roughly 15 times that of other wealthy countries, which have much tougher laws controlling private ownership of guns.
The American Journal of Law and Economics reported in 2010 that firearm homicides in Australia dropped 59 percent between 1995 (a year before the strict gun control laws were installed) and 2006. In the 18 years before the 1996 laws, there were 13 gun massacres resulting in 102 deaths, according to Harvard researchers, with none in that category since.

As Mayor Michael Bloomberg stated in 2012 after the Newtown School Shootings, "We are the only industrialized country that has this problem. In the whole world, the only one."

When are people going to get it through their thick heads that guns aren't problem? Look at places like Switzerland. Lots of guns, but you don't see people running around shooting school kids. A gun can't kill someone by itself. It needs a person to pull the trigger. Don't ban the gun. Just start shooting everyone who uses one in a crime. Even if it's not an effective deterrent, you'll get rid of all the problem, eventually.

You're right, guns don't kill people. Just like how bombs don't kill people, but that doesn't mean America are going to open up bomb stores everywhere and start selling grenades and state that it's all for your "protection". If guns are being frequently and overly used to kill people (including in schools which is simply unacceptable and outrageous) then gun control laws are necessary.

When you say "shooting everyone who uses one in a crime" I assume you're referring to capital punishment, which is an ignorant statement to make. Capital punishment doesn't work like that. And, more often than not, criminals would rather die than rot in jail. As demonstrated by Ted Bundy, who, after being chased by a police officer, admitted when he was finally caught, "I wish you had killed me." Also, the bigger issue with capital punishment is the amount of innocent people who get sentenced the death penalty. Since 1976 in America when the death penalty was reinstated, 144 inmates have been taken off the death row which means for every 7 inmates executed, 1 was wrongfully convicted. According to the Death Penalty Information Centre, 10 people who were executed could possibly be innocent. For example, in Texas February 1992, Johnny Garrett was executed for raping and murdering a nun. But then, in March 2004, Leoncio Rueda was found to have raped and killed another elderly victim four months prior. The police were then led to believe the two cases were connected and committed by the same individual, which was then confirmed when black curly head hairs were found on victims along with previously unidentified fingerprints found in the nun"s room, both linked to Rueda. And now if we started killing off everyone who used a gun in a crime like you're stating, then that means we'll have a dramatic increase in the amount of innocent people who are sentenced to death too. But capital punishment is a debate for a different forum, so I'll stick to gun control. Now let me ask a question that I'm actually very curious about - because, once again, I'm an Australian who was born two years after gun control laws were introduced - why is that Americans feel the desperate need to own a gun? Aside from hunting purposes of course. I mean like the average American citizen - why do they need to own one?
Dr_Obvious
Posts: 551
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9/3/2014 5:31:13 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/3/2014 4:55:10 AM, Chessie wrote:
At 9/2/2014 10:24:14 AM, Dr_Obvious wrote:
At 9/2/2014 4:18:03 AM, Chessie wrote:
At 9/1/2014 8:02:41 PM, Dr_Obvious wrote:
What Happened to Chicago"s Crime Rate When Illinois Relaxed Gun Control Laws?

Robberies leading to an arrest...Down 20%
Burglary reports...Down 20%
Vehicle theft reports...down 26%
Chicago's homicide rate in the first quarter...56 year low.

These figures are expected to continue to drop. You gun control nuts just got owned. Here is proof that private ownership of guns reduces crime. Read it weep.

As an Australian where gun control is very restrictive, I do really think that gun control laws are important. I think the thing that terrifies me the most about the relaxed gun laws in America is the amount of school shootings that occur. In Australia, straight after the infamous Port Arthur Massacre in Tasmania, our Prime Minister quickly laid down some strict gun control laws. Since then, we've had four school shootings in total. While in America, in May this year ALONE there were 5 school shootings! Even Barack Obama made statements back in June praising our federal government's quick reaction to the Port Arthur massacre, while America, despite the very recent and major massacres that have occurred, still has made no effort to change these laws. (However I am aware that Obama isn't particularly popular among many Americans so this statement probably didn't change the minds of many people)

It's clear that you're more interested in statistics, so rather than looking at a state level, how about we look at this internationally? If we combine the populations of the Great Britain, Sweden, Japan, France, Germany, Denmark and Australia, we have a population that is approximately the size of the US. While the US had 30,000 gun related deaths last year, they had 112.
Experts from the Harvard School of Public Health, using data from 26 developed countries, have shown that wherever there are more firearms, there are more homicides. In the case of the United States, exponentially more: the American murder rate is roughly 15 times that of other wealthy countries, which have much tougher laws controlling private ownership of guns.
The American Journal of Law and Economics reported in 2010 that firearm homicides in Australia dropped 59 percent between 1995 (a year before the strict gun control laws were installed) and 2006. In the 18 years before the 1996 laws, there were 13 gun massacres resulting in 102 deaths, according to Harvard researchers, with none in that category since.

As Mayor Michael Bloomberg stated in 2012 after the Newtown School Shootings, "We are the only industrialized country that has this problem. In the whole world, the only one."

When are people going to get it through their thick heads that guns aren't problem? Look at places like Switzerland. Lots of guns, but you don't see people running around shooting school kids. A gun can't kill someone by itself. It needs a person to pull the trigger. Don't ban the gun. Just start shooting everyone who uses one in a crime. Even if it's not an effective deterrent, you'll get rid of all the problem, eventually.

You're right, guns don't kill people. Just like how bombs don't kill people, but that doesn't mean America are going to open up bomb stores everywhere and start selling grenades and state that it's all for your "protection". If guns are being frequently and overly used to kill people (including in schools which is simply unacceptable and outrageous) then gun control laws are necessary.

When you say "shooting everyone who uses one in a crime" I assume you're referring to capital punishment, which is an ignorant statement to make. Capital punishment doesn't work like that. And, more often than not, criminals would rather die than rot in jail. As demonstrated by Ted Bundy, who, after being chased by a police officer, admitted when he was finally caught, "I wish you had killed me." Also, the bigger issue with capital punishment is the amount of innocent people who get sentenced the death penalty. Since 1976 in America when the death penalty was reinstated, 144 inmates have been taken off the death row which means for every 7 inmates executed, 1 was wrongfully convicted. According to the Death Penalty Information Centre, 10 people who were executed could possibly be innocent. For example, in Texas February 1992, Johnny Garrett was executed for raping and murdering a nun. But then, in March 2004, Leoncio Rueda was found to have raped and killed another elderly victim four months prior. The police were then led to believe the two cases were connected and committed by the same individual, which was then confirmed when black curly head hairs were found on victims along with previously unidentified fingerprints found in the nun"s room, both linked to Rueda. And now if we started killing off everyone who used a gun in a crime like you're stating, then that means we'll have a dramatic increase in the amount of innocent people who are sentenced to death too. But capital punishment is a debate for a different forum, so I'll stick to gun control. Now let me ask a question that I'm actually very curious about - because, once again, I'm an Australian who was born two years after gun control laws were introduced - why is that Americans feel the desperate need to own a gun? Aside from hunting purposes of course. I mean like the average American citizen - why do they need to own one?

Innocent people being killed by the death penalty would not be a problem, if we just changed the burden of proof. At least two eye witnesses or DNA, or other evidence that leaves no doubt about who did it. Someone should never be sent to death row because of circumstantial evidence. People have actually been executed because of circumstantial evidence. As far as the death penalty being a deterrent, it was never intended as such. Many violent crimes, including murder, are committed by repeat offenders. Let me ask you a question. When's the last time you've heard of a corpse shooting or raping someone? Now, to answer your question, all you need to do is read about the reasons for the American Revolution, and look up our founding fathers views on on the second amendment. In a nutshell, we want to keep our guns to protect ourselves from our own government.
jnedwards11
Posts: 351
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9/3/2014 11:17:27 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
It's clear that you're more interested in statistics, so rather than looking at a state level, how about we look at this internationally?

Why so you can offer convoluted data in an attempt to obfuscate the discussion?

If we combine the populations of the Great Britain, Sweden, Japan, France, Germany, Denmark and Australia, we have a population that is approximately the size of the US. While the US had 30,000 gun related deaths last year, they had 112.

Well no big surprise there......now let's break these figures down a bit and show how absurd it is to use them to prove your point.

1st) 2/3rds of our 30,000 gun deaths are suicides. How underhanded is it to include suicides by gun as a statistic to compare against a country like Japan. They have like three times the overall suicide rate than we do with almost no access to guns. That's without including ANY of those other countries.

2nd) your 30,000 also includes DEFENSIVE uses of guns. That means all the people that were killed legally by a police officer or pedestrian with a gun are included in this totally bogus figure. How absurdly misleading is it to use positive cases of gun uses in attempt to show people that guns are an overall bad thing?

3rd) How many overall murders and violent crimes were committed in each of these countries. (relative to the US). I really don't care if I'm less likey to be killed with a gun if I'm more likely to be killed (or forceably raped) by any other means. That is hippy logic meant to vilify a gun rather than acknowledge the real concern....death and violence.

4th) What were the murder and violent crimes rates of each of these countries relative to the US, before each of their gun controls were enacted. If all of the countries always had drastically less gun violence than we did, why are they even suitable comparisons

5th) Who decides what country gets thrown on this arbitrary list of comparables? What happens when Russia gets added in there. Well....Your position becomes completely untenable, that's what happens.

Experts from the Harvard School of Public Health, using data from 26 developed countries, have shown that wherever there are more firearms, there are more homicides.

In the case of the United States, exponentially more: the American murder rate is roughly 15 times that of other wealthy countries, which have much tougher laws controlling private ownership of guns.

Yes because if experts from Harvard set out to manipulate data in favor of a pre-determined result, they can probably fake-prove just about anything. Show me the controls used for the selection of the 26 countries and I will pick this statement apart piece by piece.

The American Journal of Law and Economics reported in 2010 that firearm homicides...

What's happened to Austrailia's violent crime rate since 2006? It has skyrocketed. What's happened to America's in that same timeframe. DECLINE (for more than a decade now). So less gun deaths (that means less defensive gun deaths as well, as shown above) at the price of a drastically higher wave of violent crime and an overall murder rate that remained virtually unchanged. Thank you, but I'll keep my rights and continue to suspicously regard anyone that would try to sell me with obviously framed data.

In the 18 years before the 1996 laws, there were 13 gun massacres resulting in 102 deaths, according to Harvard researchers, with none in that category since.

Another "quote" meant to bring the readers attention away from overall figures for violence and murder, to instead, focus only on "gun massacres" as defined by the "researchers"......

As Mayor Michael Bloomberg stated in 2012 after the Newtown School Shootings, "We are the only industrialized country that has this problem. In the whole world, the only one."

Bloomberg (who is not a mayor of anything) also said the government should be able to ban large sodas. I scare to think of what that man's America would look like, but thank god, I will never have to!