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Bill Clinton? Modern Th. Jefferson?

comoncents
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3/18/2010 8:01:30 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
Can what Bill Clinton did with Monica L be taking as a modern day Thomas Jefferson, who slept with a slave and had children?

Let me know what you think about it?

Who condemns Clinton for what he did?
And would you have condemned Jefferson for what he did?
Xer
Posts: 7,776
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3/18/2010 8:05:39 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
Thomas Jefferson didn't commit perjury. That's the only reason Clinton got in trouble with Lewinsky.

There's not much evidence that Jefferson actually slept with and fathered children with Sally Hemmings, by the way.
banker
Posts: 1,370
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3/18/2010 8:14:11 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
Your point proves how stainfull libs are to our history..!
In order to exonerate some one more fit to be on faderal vecation, then on any federal job. Let alone a prazident.? How could you justify him bieng the prezident.? Only by trashing the names of our heros..! Then to compare them to clinton..!! Therby destroying our history..!!
the most important source for muslim Arabs:

"And thereafter We [Allah] said to the Children of Israel: 'Dwell securely in the Promised Land. And when the last warning will come to pass, we will gather you together in a mingled crowd'.".

- Qur'an 17:104 -

Any sincere muslim must recognize the Land they call "Palestine" as the Jewish Homeland, according to the book considered by muslims to be the most sacred word and Allah's ultimate revelation.

Ibn Khaldun, one of the most creditable
comoncents
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3/18/2010 8:23:26 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 3/18/2010 8:05:39 PM, Nags wrote:
Thomas Jefferson didn't commit perjury. That's the only reason Clinton got in trouble with Lewinsky.

There's not much evidence that Jefferson actually slept with and fathered children with Sally Hemmings, by the way.

Yeah there is.
DNA, and history points to it.
comoncents
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3/18/2010 8:25:03 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 3/18/2010 8:14:11 PM, banker wrote:
Your point proves how stainfull libs are to our history..!
In order to exonerate some one more fit to be on faderal vecation, then on any federal job. Let alone a prazident.? How could you justify him bieng the prezident.? Only by trashing the names of our heros..! Then to compare them to clinton..!! Therby destroying our history..!!

Your crazy.
Jefferson did this. Who cares. Why not expose real history?
comoncents
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3/18/2010 8:32:23 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 3/18/2010 8:25:03 PM, comoncents wrote:
At 3/18/2010 8:14:11 PM, banker wrote:
Your point proves how stainfull libs are to our history..!
In order to exonerate some one more fit to be on faderal vecation, then on any federal job. Let alone a prazident.? How could you justify him bieng the prezident.? Only by trashing the names of our heros..! Then to compare them to clinton..!! Therby destroying our history..!!

Your crazy.
Jefferson did this. Who cares. Why not expose real history?

And George Washington sided with the federalist most of the time and bigger federal government. Who cares?

It still does not make the man horrible!
George Washington was a great president!
Thomas Jefferson was a great president!
belle
Posts: 4,113
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3/18/2010 8:42:17 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 3/18/2010 8:01:30 PM, comoncents wrote:
Can what Bill Clinton did with Monica L be taking as a modern day Thomas Jefferson, who slept with a slave and had children?

Let me know what you think about it?

Who condemns Clinton for what he did?
And would you have condemned Jefferson for what he did?

difference: at the time white men often compelled female slaves to have sex with them whether they wanted to or not. a desire for political advance is a very different motive from the desire to avoid being whipped for noncompliance.

i could care less what clinton did but the situation between jefferson and his slaves is more complex.
evidently i only come to ddo to avoid doing homework...
comoncents
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3/18/2010 8:51:55 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 3/18/2010 8:42:17 PM, belle wrote:
At 3/18/2010 8:01:30 PM, comoncents wrote:
Can what Bill Clinton did with Monica L be taking as a modern day Thomas Jefferson, who slept with a slave and had children?

Let me know what you think about it?

Who condemns Clinton for what he did?
And would you have condemned Jefferson for what he did?

difference: at the time white men often compelled female slaves to have sex with them whether they wanted to or not.
But the president to this would have been unheard of.

i could care less what clinton did but the situation between jefferson and his slaves is more complex.

And some would say worse!
But I do agree, more complex for sure.
banker
Posts: 1,370
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3/18/2010 9:17:29 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
Sorry I I am not able to understand how a name call proves your slander against jefferson..!

I told you why I believe your point proves how distructive liberals are to our history..! If your able to give us your reason for slandering our hero,s I hope you will do it..!
the most important source for muslim Arabs:

"And thereafter We [Allah] said to the Children of Israel: 'Dwell securely in the Promised Land. And when the last warning will come to pass, we will gather you together in a mingled crowd'.".

- Qur'an 17:104 -

Any sincere muslim must recognize the Land they call "Palestine" as the Jewish Homeland, according to the book considered by muslims to be the most sacred word and Allah's ultimate revelation.

Ibn Khaldun, one of the most creditable
mattrodstrom
Posts: 12,028
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3/18/2010 9:20:37 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 3/18/2010 9:17:29 PM, banker wrote:
If your able to give us your reason for slandering our hero,s I hope you will do it..!

lol I think the reason would be that Jefferson apparently slept with and had children by his slave.

But then that wouldn't be "slander" so... I guess that couldn't be the reason
"He who does not know how to put his will into things at least puts a meaning into them: that is, he believes there is a will in them already."

Metaphysics:
"The science.. which deals with the fundamental errors of mankind - but as if they were the fundamental truths."
banker
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3/18/2010 11:33:38 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
Matt why are you taking his word for it? Not that its puting him in a bad light if he did..! The point if its provan could be stronger..!! Jefferson was worse then clinton...! Since jefferson inslaved blacks..! Matt don't you see that this guy believes that the era,s are not important.? Why is he not accusing jefferson of being a bigot,for owning slaves.? He is a typical lib..! he is doing selective understanding..!
the most important source for muslim Arabs:

"And thereafter We [Allah] said to the Children of Israel: 'Dwell securely in the Promised Land. And when the last warning will come to pass, we will gather you together in a mingled crowd'.".

- Qur'an 17:104 -

Any sincere muslim must recognize the Land they call "Palestine" as the Jewish Homeland, according to the book considered by muslims to be the most sacred word and Allah's ultimate revelation.

Ibn Khaldun, one of the most creditable
Scott_Mann
Posts: 278
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3/18/2010 11:37:15 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
Clinton wasn't impeached because he cheated on his wife, or because of perjury. The GOP Congress hated his guts, and this "obstruction of justice" crap was what they were hiding behind.

History will definitely overlook the Lewinsky scandal, when it's balanced out with all the good he does both in and out of public office.

Jefferson's scandal was like a mix of Clinton, Edwards, and Strom Thurmond. He cheats on his wife, he gets the woman pregnant... and he has sex with a black woman despite the fact that he was an outspoken supporter of slavery!!
The more posts you have, the less value they contain.
banker
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3/19/2010 4:42:04 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
Scot my argument is not about him trying to defend clinton..!!
I like clinton he is a very likeable guy..! I also agree that his success was his bigest problem..! It invited envy.
I take issue with using jeeferson history,to save him..!!
the most important source for muslim Arabs:

"And thereafter We [Allah] said to the Children of Israel: 'Dwell securely in the Promised Land. And when the last warning will come to pass, we will gather you together in a mingled crowd'.".

- Qur'an 17:104 -

Any sincere muslim must recognize the Land they call "Palestine" as the Jewish Homeland, according to the book considered by muslims to be the most sacred word and Allah's ultimate revelation.

Ibn Khaldun, one of the most creditable
banker
Posts: 1,370
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3/19/2010 4:47:05 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
Clintons helping china to rob our employment is the real crime...! Who cares about lewinski..! Clinton took our jobs and gave it to china..! Meanwhile detroit and other industrial cities are ghost towns,while in china their building towers..!!!
the most important source for muslim Arabs:

"And thereafter We [Allah] said to the Children of Israel: 'Dwell securely in the Promised Land. And when the last warning will come to pass, we will gather you together in a mingled crowd'.".

- Qur'an 17:104 -

Any sincere muslim must recognize the Land they call "Palestine" as the Jewish Homeland, according to the book considered by muslims to be the most sacred word and Allah's ultimate revelation.

Ibn Khaldun, one of the most creditable
comoncents
Posts: 5,647
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3/19/2010 7:05:54 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 3/18/2010 9:17:29 PM, banker wrote:
Sorry I I am not able to understand how a name call proves your slander against jefferson..!


It is true history!
Slander, really.
Maybe you should understand a word before you use it.

History shows us a lot. Thomas Jefferson did this, just as he decided to purchase Louisiana, history shows both. Why not discuss history as a whole?

I told you why I believe your point proves how distructive liberals are to our history..!

If by liberal you mean truth than... ok.
What ever man. You seem to have an uneducated bias when it comes to history but it is all good.

If your able to give us your reason for slandering our hero,s I hope you will do it..!

I am not slandering anyone.
It is called history. Just like Alexander Hamilton being a bastard. It is history. The knowledge is out there, I suggest you go looking or stay uneducated on the matter. It makes no difference to me.
It does not change the fact that he is still a great man.
comoncents
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3/19/2010 7:07:54 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 3/18/2010 9:20:37 PM, mattrodstrom wrote:
At 3/18/2010 9:17:29 PM, banker wrote:
If your able to give us your reason for slandering our hero,s I hope you will do it..!

lol I think the reason would be that Jefferson apparently slept with and had children by his slave.


That is what I said, yes.

But then that wouldn't be "slander" so... I guess that couldn't be the reason

I know it would not be slander.
Finally, someone that understands the definition of the word!
comoncents
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3/19/2010 7:18:16 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 3/18/2010 11:33:38 PM, banker wrote:
Matt why are you taking his word for it?
He is not taking my word for it. He is just educated in matters of american history.

Not that its puting him in a bad light if he did..!

Well, I am glad you do not put him completely in a bad light.

The point if its provan could be stronger..!! Jefferson was worse then clinton...!

I did not say that?
What are you talking about.

Since jefferson inslaved blacks..! Matt don't you see that this guy believes that the era,s are not important.?

Again talking garbage.
Make good clear points please.

Why is he not accusing jefferson of being a bigot,for owning slaves.? He is a typical lib..! he is doing selective understanding..!

I am not accusing Jefferson of committing adultery or anything like that. I am just asking why people do not see it the same way? Or do they see it in the same way?

In that day it was a practice that was looked down upon and definitely from a president.

I know some people that would classify it as a form of beastality in todays day.

The way some see it is:
Slaves were purchased and sometimes had no choice.
Cows are purchased and have no choice.

I am not one of those people but some do see it that way.
I find it extreme to say or even think that. That may classify as slandering but that is not my point of view or argument. I am not the one saying or believing the beastality thing.

History has proven that he did in fact sleep with a slave and had at least a child.
comoncents
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3/19/2010 7:23:50 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 3/18/2010 11:37:15 PM, Scott_Mann wrote:
Clinton wasn't impeached because he cheated on his wife, or because of perjury. The GOP Congress hated his guts, and this "obstruction of justice" crap was what they were hiding behind.


A little harsh but could be true.

History will definitely overlook the Lewinsky scandal, when it's balanced out with all the good he does both in and out of public office.


I do not know. It did seem like a big deal.
Time will tell.

Jefferson's scandal was like a mix of Clinton, Edwards, and Strom Thurmond. He cheats on his wife, he gets the woman pregnant... and he has sex with a black woman

I would agree, I think.

despite the fact that he was an outspoken supporter of slavery!!

I would not say he was an outspoken supporter of slavery with that form or hast. He did advocate for "all men" being crated equal.
He was very hesitant and really would have rathered slavery been abolished but knew he could not do it
But yes, there is an element of support but not a outspoken supporter.
comoncents
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3/19/2010 7:26:10 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 3/19/2010 4:42:04 AM, banker wrote:
Scot my argument is not about him trying to defend clinton..!!
I like clinton he is a very likeable guy..! I also agree that his success was his bigest problem..! It invited envy.
I take issue with using jeeferson history,to save him..!!

I am not trying to defend anyone.
Or make things up.

Facts:

Bill clinton got a service from Monica.
Jefferson had sex with a slave and a child.

Both are true historical statements.
There is no slander, or argument I am putting forth.
Scott_Mann
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3/19/2010 11:50:44 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 3/19/2010 7:23:50 AM, comoncents wrote:
At 3/18/2010 11:37:15 PM, Scott_Mann wrote:
Clinton wasn't impeached because he cheated on his wife, or because of perjury. The GOP Congress hated his guts, and this "obstruction of justice" crap was what they were hiding behind.


A little harsh but could be true.

History will definitely overlook the Lewinsky scandal, when it's balanced out with all the good he does both in and out of public office.


I do not know. It did seem like a big deal.
Time will tell.


I guess so. But Reagan's crimes are constantly overlooked, and even some people are trying to get him on money. If he can do all that crap in office and still have that much support, anyone can.


I would not say he was an outspoken supporter of slavery with that form or hast. He did advocate for "all men" being crated equal.
He was very hesitant and really would have rathered slavery been abolished but knew he could not do it
But yes, there is an element of support but not a outspoken supporter.

Actually, I was referring to Strom Thurmond and his open racism. As well as his own scandal.
The more posts you have, the less value they contain.
Xer
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3/19/2010 12:27:33 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 3/18/2010 11:37:15 PM, Scott_Mann wrote:
Clinton wasn't impeached because he cheated on his wife, or because of perjury. The GOP Congress hated his guts, and this "obstruction of justice" crap was what they were hiding behind.

He was impeached because of perjury. If he didn't perjure, he would have never been impeached.

History will definitely overlook the Lewinsky scandal, when it's balanced out with all the good he does both in and out of public office.

Like...?

Jefferson's scandal was like a mix of Clinton, Edwards, and Strom Thurmond. He cheats on his wife, he gets the woman pregnant... and he has sex with a black woman despite the fact that he was an outspoken supporter of slavery!!

Actually, Jefferson was an abolitionist.
Scott_Mann
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3/19/2010 1:01:19 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 3/19/2010 12:27:33 PM, Nags wrote:
At 3/18/2010 11:37:15 PM, Scott_Mann wrote:
Clinton wasn't impeached because he cheated on his wife, or because of perjury. The GOP Congress hated his guts, and this "obstruction of justice" crap was what they were hiding behind.

He was impeached because of perjury. If he didn't perjure, he would have never been impeached.


If that's what you want to believe, then fine. But Clinton was widely hated by Republicans during his time in office, and they repeatedly tried accusing him of random conspiracies. The second Clinton shows an imperfection, he's impeached. The lie didn't even put people into harm's way, unlike some other presidents I can think of right now...
History will definitely overlook the Lewinsky scandal, when it's balanced out with all the good he does both in and out of public office.

Like...?


Surplus... strength in leadership... peace making... humanitarianism, etc, etc.
Jefferson's scandal was like a mix of Clinton, Edwards, and Strom Thurmond. He cheats on his wife, he gets the woman pregnant... and he has sex with a black woman despite the fact that he was an outspoken supporter of slavery!!

Actually, Jefferson was an abolitionist.

I thought I had heard somewhere of Jefferson owning the most slaves out of Adams and Washington, and that Washington was the closest president before Lincoln to being an abolitionist...
The more posts you have, the less value they contain.
kelly224
Posts: 952
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3/19/2010 1:09:48 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 3/18/2010 8:01:30 PM, comoncents wrote:
Can what Bill Clinton did with Monica L be taking as a modern day Thomas Jefferson, who slept with a slave and had children?

Let me know what you think about it?

Who condemns Clinton for what he did?
And would you have condemned Jefferson for what he did?

There is no difference. Both were wrong no matter how you cut it. I would not condemn them, because it is not a rare occurence, just got discovered.
kelly224
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3/19/2010 1:11:05 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 3/18/2010 8:25:03 PM, comoncents wrote:
At 3/18/2010 8:14:11 PM, banker wrote:
Your point proves how stainfull libs are to our history..!
In order to exonerate some one more fit to be on faderal vecation, then on any federal job. Let alone a prazident.? How could you justify him bieng the prezident.? Only by trashing the names of our heros..! Then to compare them to clinton..!! Therby destroying our history..!!

Your crazy.
Jefferson did this. Who cares. Why not expose real history?

thank you
kelly224
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3/19/2010 1:13:29 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 3/18/2010 9:17:29 PM, banker wrote:
Sorry I I am not able to understand how a name call proves your slander against jefferson..!

I told you why I believe your point proves how distructive liberals are to our history..! If your able to give us your reason for slandering our hero,s I hope you will do it..!

Wake up, they can be your hero, but they also are human beings who are subject to do wrong. There are alot of power figures throughout history who had questionable character traits.
kelly224
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3/19/2010 1:15:14 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 3/18/2010 11:33:38 PM, banker wrote:
Matt why are you taking his word for it? Not that its puting him in a bad light if he did..! The point if its provan could be stronger..!! Jefferson was worse then clinton...! Since jefferson inslaved blacks..! Matt don't you see that this guy believes that the era,s are not important.? Why is he not accusing jefferson of being a bigot,for owning slaves.? He is a typical lib..! he is doing selective understanding..!

Sounds like your understanding is selective as well. This is not a conservative or liberal topic, ths is a question of character, which doesn't have a political affiliation.
Scott_Mann
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3/19/2010 1:15:36 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
I've like how the public school systems drop all of these things to make the US look big and tough, with blatant lies about The Boston Massacre and not even mentioning stuff like Jefferson's shtik.

At least be freaking honest about it.
The more posts you have, the less value they contain.
Scott_Mann
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3/19/2010 1:15:59 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 3/19/2010 1:15:36 PM, Scott_Mann wrote:
I've like how the public school systems drop all of these things to make the US look big and tough, with blatant lies about The Boston Massacre and not even mentioning stuff like Jefferson's shtik.

At least be freaking honest about it.

I like*
The more posts you have, the less value they contain.
kelly224
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3/19/2010 1:17:24 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 3/18/2010 11:37:15 PM, Scott_Mann wrote:
Clinton wasn't impeached because he cheated on his wife, or because of perjury. The GOP Congress hated his guts, and this "obstruction of justice" crap was what they were hiding behind.

History will definitely overlook the Lewinsky scandal, when it's balanced out with all the good he does both in and out of public office.

Jefferson's scandal was like a mix of Clinton, Edwards, and Strom Thurmond. He cheats on his wife, he gets the woman pregnant... and he has sex with a black woman despite the fact that he was an outspoken supporter of slavery!!

wonderful point. Jefferson was a staunch supporter of slavery, fathered children with a slave, maybe more than just her, and went down in history as a saint.
I-am-a-panda
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3/19/2010 3:05:06 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 3/19/2010 1:17:24 PM, kelly224 wrote:

wonderful point. Jefferson was a staunch supporter of slavery, fathered children with a slave, maybe more than just her, and went down in history as a saint.

Jefferson was an outspoken abolitionist, but he owned many slaves over his lifetime. Although these facts seem baffling, biographers point out that Jefferson was deeply in debt and had encumbered his slaves by notes and mortgages; he could not free them until he was free of debt, which never happened. As a result, Jefferson seems to have suffered pangs and trials of conscience. His ambivalence was also reflected in his treatment of those slaves who worked most closely with him and his family at Monticello and in other locations. He invested in having them trained and schooled in high quality skills. He wrote about slavery, "We have the wolf by the ears; and we can neither hold him, nor safely let him go. Justice is in one scale, and self-preservation in the other."

http://en.wikipedia.org...

Jefferson did not like slavery, however, he had to conform to the social norm.
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