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Russia Allegedly Abducts Estonian Agent

bsh1
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9/5/2014 7:48:50 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Tallinn has accused Moscow of abducting on of Estonia's counterintelligence agents within Estonian borders. If true, this would represent a severe breach of Estonia's sovereignty and territorial integrity, and is esp. significant in that Estonia is a NATO member state.

What, if any, ramifications do you think are likely to ensue from this event, esp. if the allegations turn out to be true?

[http://www.ft.com...]
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bsh1
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9/6/2014 2:29:31 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/6/2014 9:24:48 AM, LogicalLunatic wrote:
Unfortunately, people will likely ignore this.

Well, would you like to contribute any thoughts?
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LogicalLunatic
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9/6/2014 2:49:45 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/6/2014 2:29:31 PM, bsh1 wrote:
At 9/6/2014 9:24:48 AM, LogicalLunatic wrote:
Unfortunately, people will likely ignore this.

Well, would you like to contribute any thoughts?

Well, until either 1989, 1990, or 1991 (I don't recall the year) the Soviet Union occupied Estonia, Lithuania, and Latvia (all three, I think). It would make sense that little more than 20 years after the collapse of the Soviet Union some of their politicians would feel sentimental about the good old days where Russia ruled the Baltic region, thus they seek to exert power there again.
This also may explain why they're getting involved in Ukraine, which (I think) they also used to rule.
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bsh1
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9/6/2014 2:51:55 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/6/2014 2:49:45 PM, LogicalLunatic wrote:
At 9/6/2014 2:29:31 PM, bsh1 wrote:
At 9/6/2014 9:24:48 AM, LogicalLunatic wrote:
Unfortunately, people will likely ignore this.

Well, would you like to contribute any thoughts?

Well, until either 1989, 1990, or 1991 (I don't recall the year) the Soviet Union occupied Estonia, Lithuania, and Latvia (all three, I think). It would make sense that little more than 20 years after the collapse of the Soviet Union some of their politicians would feel sentimental about the good old days where Russia ruled the Baltic region, thus they seek to exert power there again.
This also may explain why they're getting involved in Ukraine, which (I think) they also used to rule.

That much seems obvious. Russia is renewing its imperial ambitions in a, supposedly, post-imperial age. My concern is the potential for intensified indirect--or even direct--conflict between NATO and Russia.
Live Long and Prosper

I'm a Bish.


"Twilight isn't just about obtuse metaphors between cannibalism and premarital sex, it also teaches us the futility of hope." - Raisor

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YYW
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9/6/2014 2:56:32 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/5/2014 7:48:50 PM, bsh1 wrote:
Tallinn has accused Moscow of abducting on of Estonia's counterintelligence agents within Estonian borders. If true, this would represent a severe breach of Estonia's sovereignty and territorial integrity, and is esp. significant in that Estonia is a NATO member state.

What, if any, ramifications do you think are likely to ensue from this event, esp. if the allegations turn out to be true?

[http://www.ft.com...]

The New York Times tells us:

Estonia"s president and prime minister, among other officials, said the officer had been kidnapped at gunpoint from their territory and forced across the border in a blatant violation of sovereignty. The Russian Federal Security Service said the officer was in Russia and engaged in a clandestine operation when he was detained.

Although the intelligence officer was apparently detained around 9 a.m., the Russian security service, known as the F.S.B., did not acknowledge the incident until Friday evening, when it issued a statement to three Russian news agencies.

Senior Estonian officials, including the director of the country"s Internal Security Service, held a news conference in the late afternoon, saying the officer had been abducted after unknown assailants set off a stun grenade and jammed communication signals. At the time of his capture, the officer was investigating a criminal case in the area of Luhamaa, Estonia, a little more than a mile from the border with Russia, officials said, according to Estonian news reports.

Estonia shares a border of roughly 180 miles with Russia, much of it in the middle of Lake Peipus. The border crossing near Luhamaa is in the extreme southeast corner of Estonia, on a main highway between Pskov, Russia, and Riga, Latvia, that passes through Estonian territory.

Many Russian officials, including President Vladimir V. Putin, harbor a grudge over the membership of the three Baltic countries in NATO, saying that the alliance broke a promise to Mikhail S. Gorbachev, the last leader of the Soviet Union, that it would not extend its membership farther east than Germany.

http://www.nytimes.com...

I think that it's highly probable, when accounting for Russia's history of kidnapping people outside of Russia, that Russia kidnapped someone across the Estonian border because he wants to call what he thinks is Obama's and NATO's bluff.

I think that if Russia did, in fact, kidnap the Estonian agent, that will have really significant implications to this ongoing crisis. However, this isn't something that's just happening in isolation.

NATO is assembling a special force to deter Russia, and I think Putin is trying to distract NATO from that objective while showing the west the extent to which he is willing to do audacious things.

http://www.nytimes.com...
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LogicalLunatic
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9/6/2014 2:57:47 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/6/2014 2:51:55 PM, bsh1 wrote:
At 9/6/2014 2:49:45 PM, LogicalLunatic wrote:
At 9/6/2014 2:29:31 PM, bsh1 wrote:
At 9/6/2014 9:24:48 AM, LogicalLunatic wrote:
Unfortunately, people will likely ignore this.

Well, would you like to contribute any thoughts?

Well, until either 1989, 1990, or 1991 (I don't recall the year) the Soviet Union occupied Estonia, Lithuania, and Latvia (all three, I think). It would make sense that little more than 20 years after the collapse of the Soviet Union some of their politicians would feel sentimental about the good old days where Russia ruled the Baltic region, thus they seek to exert power there again.
This also may explain why they're getting involved in Ukraine, which (I think) they also used to rule.

That much seems obvious. Russia is renewing its imperial ambitions in a, supposedly, post-imperial age. My concern is the potential for intensified indirect--or even direct--conflict between NATO and Russia.

I wouldn't worry about it so much. Russian imperialism as it is today and was during the Soviet Union isn't a long term problem.
Why? Because their Russian population is declining, and they won't have nearly as large an army. And an increasingly centralized UN will be able to handle Russia much easier than they used to, though I predict that soon enough the United States will not be a major player in opposing Russia.

Soon enough the Russian Muslim population will take over as the dominant group in Russia. While most Russian Muslims are decent people, it's very likely that an Islamist regime will come to power. And they'll have Russian nukes, which they'd be happy to give to a myriad of terrorist groups.
THAT is what you should be more worried about.
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bsh1
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9/6/2014 3:00:49 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/6/2014 2:57:47 PM, LogicalLunatic wrote:
At 9/6/2014 2:51:55 PM, bsh1 wrote:
At 9/6/2014 2:49:45 PM, LogicalLunatic wrote:
At 9/6/2014 2:29:31 PM, bsh1 wrote:
At 9/6/2014 9:24:48 AM, LogicalLunatic wrote:
Unfortunately, people will likely ignore this.

Well, would you like to contribute any thoughts?

Well, until either 1989, 1990, or 1991 (I don't recall the year) the Soviet Union occupied Estonia, Lithuania, and Latvia (all three, I think). It would make sense that little more than 20 years after the collapse of the Soviet Union some of their politicians would feel sentimental about the good old days where Russia ruled the Baltic region, thus they seek to exert power there again.
This also may explain why they're getting involved in Ukraine, which (I think) they also used to rule.

That much seems obvious. Russia is renewing its imperial ambitions in a, supposedly, post-imperial age. My concern is the potential for intensified indirect--or even direct--conflict between NATO and Russia.

I wouldn't worry about it so much. Russian imperialism as it is today and was during the Soviet Union isn't a long term problem.
Why? Because their Russian population is declining, and they won't have nearly as large an army. And an increasingly centralized UN will be able to handle Russia much easier than they used to, though I predict that soon enough the United States will not be a major player in opposing Russia.

You do realize that even if Russia is in decline, it still has the most nuclear warheads of any country on Earth, and several hundred more than the U.S.? That is more than enough cause for concern.

Soon enough the Russian Muslim population will take over as the dominant group in Russia. While most Russian Muslims are decent people, it's very likely that an Islamist regime will come to power. And they'll have Russian nukes, which they'd be happy to give to a myriad of terrorist groups.

There really aren't enough Russian Muslims to do that--Russia is overwhelmingly Christian. It would be like the Muslim population of the UK becoming the dominant class--the idea is ridiculous.
Live Long and Prosper

I'm a Bish.


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LogicalLunatic
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9/6/2014 3:04:00 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/6/2014 3:00:49 PM, bsh1 wrote:
At 9/6/2014 2:57:47 PM, LogicalLunatic wrote:
At 9/6/2014 2:51:55 PM, bsh1 wrote:
At 9/6/2014 2:49:45 PM, LogicalLunatic wrote:
At 9/6/2014 2:29:31 PM, bsh1 wrote:
At 9/6/2014 9:24:48 AM, LogicalLunatic wrote:
Unfortunately, people will likely ignore this.

Well, would you like to contribute any thoughts?

Well, until either 1989, 1990, or 1991 (I don't recall the year) the Soviet Union occupied Estonia, Lithuania, and Latvia (all three, I think). It would make sense that little more than 20 years after the collapse of the Soviet Union some of their politicians would feel sentimental about the good old days where Russia ruled the Baltic region, thus they seek to exert power there again.
This also may explain why they're getting involved in Ukraine, which (I think) they also used to rule.

That much seems obvious. Russia is renewing its imperial ambitions in a, supposedly, post-imperial age. My concern is the potential for intensified indirect--or even direct--conflict between NATO and Russia.

I wouldn't worry about it so much. Russian imperialism as it is today and was during the Soviet Union isn't a long term problem.
Why? Because their Russian population is declining, and they won't have nearly as large an army. And an increasingly centralized UN will be able to handle Russia much easier than they used to, though I predict that soon enough the United States will not be a major player in opposing Russia.

You do realize that even if Russia is in decline, it still has the most nuclear warheads of any country on Earth, and several hundred more than the U.S.? That is more than enough cause for concern.

I know. But if we can avoid a nuclear war for another 40 years then the ethnic Russian threat will be over with.

Soon enough the Russian Muslim population will take over as the dominant group in Russia. While most Russian Muslims are decent people, it's very likely that an Islamist regime will come to power. And they'll have Russian nukes, which they'd be happy to give to a myriad of terrorist groups.

There really aren't enough Russian Muslims to do that--Russia is overwhelmingly Christian. It would be like the Muslim population of the UK becoming the dominant class--the idea is ridiculous.

http://muslimmedianetwork.com...
And some sources say 2030.
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bsh1
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9/6/2014 3:08:09 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/6/2014 3:04:00 PM, LogicalLunatic wrote:
At 9/6/2014 3:00:49 PM, bsh1 wrote:
You do realize that even if Russia is in decline, it still has the most nuclear warheads of any country on Earth, and several hundred more than the U.S.? That is more than enough cause for concern.

I know. But if we can avoid a nuclear war for another 40 years then the ethnic Russian threat will be over with.

I know, but I'm not worried about war 40 years from now, I am worried about war NOW. Russia is still a formidable opponent, even in a non-nuclear conflict.

Soon enough the Russian Muslim population will take over as the dominant group in Russia. While most Russian Muslims are decent people, it's very likely that an Islamist regime will come to power. And they'll have Russian nukes, which they'd be happy to give to a myriad of terrorist groups.

There really aren't enough Russian Muslims to do that--Russia is overwhelmingly Christian. It would be like the Muslim population of the UK becoming the dominant class--the idea is ridiculous.

http://muslimmedianetwork.com...
And some sources say 2030.

I'm sorry, but I honestly find those projections dubious. Perhaps in 100 years, but not before then.
Live Long and Prosper

I'm a Bish.


"Twilight isn't just about obtuse metaphors between cannibalism and premarital sex, it also teaches us the futility of hope." - Raisor

"[Bsh1] is the Guinan of DDO." - ButterCatX

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LogicalLunatic
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9/6/2014 3:11:19 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/6/2014 3:08:09 PM, bsh1 wrote:
At 9/6/2014 3:04:00 PM, LogicalLunatic wrote:
At 9/6/2014 3:00:49 PM, bsh1 wrote:
You do realize that even if Russia is in decline, it still has the most nuclear warheads of any country on Earth, and several hundred more than the U.S.? That is more than enough cause for concern.

I know. But if we can avoid a nuclear war for another 40 years then the ethnic Russian threat will be over with.

I know, but I'm not worried about war 40 years from now, I am worried about war NOW. Russia is still a formidable opponent, even in a non-nuclear conflict.

Eh, the two superpowers went the whole Cold War without blowing each other up. Even Vladimir Putin wouldn't dare end the world and all human civilization.

Soon enough the Russian Muslim population will take over as the dominant group in Russia. While most Russian Muslims are decent people, it's very likely that an Islamist regime will come to power. And they'll have Russian nukes, which they'd be happy to give to a myriad of terrorist groups.

There really aren't enough Russian Muslims to do that--Russia is overwhelmingly Christian. It would be like the Muslim population of the UK becoming the dominant class--the idea is ridiculous.

http://muslimmedianetwork.com...
And some sources say 2030.

I'm sorry, but I honestly find those projections dubious. Perhaps in 100 years, but not before then.

It was a Muslim newspaper, not some Islamophobic dribble. It's probably trustworthy, as it would have little to gain from lying.
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bsh1
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9/6/2014 3:14:30 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/6/2014 3:11:19 PM, LogicalLunatic wrote:
At 9/6/2014 3:08:09 PM, bsh1 wrote:
At 9/6/2014 3:04:00 PM, LogicalLunatic wrote:
At 9/6/2014 3:00:49 PM, bsh1 wrote:
You do realize that even if Russia is in decline, it still has the most nuclear warheads of any country on Earth, and several hundred more than the U.S.? That is more than enough cause for concern.

I know. But if we can avoid a nuclear war for another 40 years then the ethnic Russian threat will be over with.

I know, but I'm not worried about war 40 years from now, I am worried about war NOW. Russia is still a formidable opponent, even in a non-nuclear conflict.

Eh, the two superpowers went the whole Cold War without blowing each other up. Even Vladimir Putin wouldn't dare end the world and all human civilization.

Again, you don't seem to understand the significance of the fact that Russia targeted ESTONIA. The reason the U.S. and USSR never blew each other up is that we never fought directly; we engaged in a series of proxy wars. The crisis in Ukraine is a proxy war between NATO and Russia, for instance.

But, if Russia were to attack Estonia, the U.S. would be treaty bound to attack Russia. The two powers would be directly engaged for the first time ever.

Soon enough the Russian Muslim population will take over as the dominant group in Russia. While most Russian Muslims are decent people, it's very likely that an Islamist regime will come to power. And they'll have Russian nukes, which they'd be happy to give to a myriad of terrorist groups.

There really aren't enough Russian Muslims to do that--Russia is overwhelmingly Christian. It would be like the Muslim population of the UK becoming the dominant class--the idea is ridiculous.

http://muslimmedianetwork.com...
And some sources say 2030.

I'm sorry, but I honestly find those projections dubious. Perhaps in 100 years, but not before then.

It was a Muslim newspaper, not some Islamophobic dribble. It's probably trustworthy, as it would have little to gain from lying.

So, a Muslim paper is talking up Islam? I'm sure that's credible.
Live Long and Prosper

I'm a Bish.


"Twilight isn't just about obtuse metaphors between cannibalism and premarital sex, it also teaches us the futility of hope." - Raisor

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LogicalLunatic
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9/6/2014 3:20:58 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/6/2014 3:14:30 PM, bsh1 wrote:
At 9/6/2014 3:11:19 PM, LogicalLunatic wrote:
At 9/6/2014 3:08:09 PM, bsh1 wrote:
At 9/6/2014 3:04:00 PM, LogicalLunatic wrote:
At 9/6/2014 3:00:49 PM, bsh1 wrote:
You do realize that even if Russia is in decline, it still has the most nuclear warheads of any country on Earth, and several hundred more than the U.S.? That is more than enough cause for concern.

I know. But if we can avoid a nuclear war for another 40 years then the ethnic Russian threat will be over with.

I know, but I'm not worried about war 40 years from now, I am worried about war NOW. Russia is still a formidable opponent, even in a non-nuclear conflict.

Eh, the two superpowers went the whole Cold War without blowing each other up. Even Vladimir Putin wouldn't dare end the world and all human civilization.

Again, you don't seem to understand the significance of the fact that Russia targeted ESTONIA. The reason the U.S. and USSR never blew each other up is that we never fought directly; we engaged in a series of proxy wars. The crisis in Ukraine is a proxy war between NATO and Russia, for instance.

But, if Russia were to attack Estonia, the U.S. would be treaty bound to attack Russia. The two powers would be directly engaged for the first time ever.

I don't think it will come to that. But if it does, I don't think it will escalate into World War 3. So far, all that has happened has been the abduction of an Estonian Agent by somebody; it's too early to proclaim doomsday war.

Soon enough the Russian Muslim population will take over as the dominant group in Russia. While most Russian Muslims are decent people, it's very likely that an Islamist regime will come to power. And they'll have Russian nukes, which they'd be happy to give to a myriad of terrorist groups.

There really aren't enough Russian Muslims to do that--Russia is overwhelmingly Christian. It would be like the Muslim population of the UK becoming the dominant class--the idea is ridiculous.

http://muslimmedianetwork.com...
And some sources say 2030.

I'm sorry, but I honestly find those projections dubious. Perhaps in 100 years, but not before then.

It was a Muslim newspaper, not some Islamophobic dribble. It's probably trustworthy, as it would have little to gain from lying.

So, a Muslim paper is talking up Islam? I'm sure that's credible.

Then again, the Islamophobic dribble websites also say this is going to happen. 14% of the current Russian population is Muslim, so they just need another 37% before they can take over. Of course, in that time something may happen to reverse this trend, but I'm rather pessimistic.
At least I will have lived a decently long life by then.
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bsh1
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9/6/2014 3:23:25 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/6/2014 3:20:58 PM, LogicalLunatic wrote:
At 9/6/2014 3:14:30 PM, bsh1 wrote:
At 9/6/2014 3:11:19 PM, LogicalLunatic wrote:
At 9/6/2014 3:08:09 PM, bsh1 wrote:
At 9/6/2014 3:04:00 PM, LogicalLunatic wrote:
At 9/6/2014 3:00:49 PM, bsh1 wrote:
You do realize that even if Russia is in decline, it still has the most nuclear warheads of any country on Earth, and several hundred more than the U.S.? That is more than enough cause for concern.

I know. But if we can avoid a nuclear war for another 40 years then the ethnic Russian threat will be over with.

I know, but I'm not worried about war 40 years from now, I am worried about war NOW. Russia is still a formidable opponent, even in a non-nuclear conflict.

Eh, the two superpowers went the whole Cold War without blowing each other up. Even Vladimir Putin wouldn't dare end the world and all human civilization.

Again, you don't seem to understand the significance of the fact that Russia targeted ESTONIA. The reason the U.S. and USSR never blew each other up is that we never fought directly; we engaged in a series of proxy wars. The crisis in Ukraine is a proxy war between NATO and Russia, for instance.

But, if Russia were to attack Estonia, the U.S. would be treaty bound to attack Russia. The two powers would be directly engaged for the first time ever.

I don't think it will come to that. But if it does, I don't think it will escalate into World War 3. So far, all that has happened has been the abduction of an Estonian Agent by somebody; it's too early to proclaim doomsday war.

I agree that it's a bit early to say that, but the implications of what Russia did are still chilling. Wars have a way of escalating and getting out of hand. Few people, for instance, thought WWI would last more than three months. It lasted 5 years.

Soon enough the Russian Muslim population will take over as the dominant group in Russia. While most Russian Muslims are decent people, it's very likely that an Islamist regime will come to power. And they'll have Russian nukes, which they'd be happy to give to a myriad of terrorist groups.

There really aren't enough Russian Muslims to do that--Russia is overwhelmingly Christian. It would be like the Muslim population of the UK becoming the dominant class--the idea is ridiculous.

http://muslimmedianetwork.com...
And some sources say 2030.

I'm sorry, but I honestly find those projections dubious. Perhaps in 100 years, but not before then.

It was a Muslim newspaper, not some Islamophobic dribble. It's probably trustworthy, as it would have little to gain from lying.

So, a Muslim paper is talking up Islam? I'm sure that's credible.

Then again, the Islamophobic dribble websites also say this is going to happen. 14% of the current Russian population is Muslim, so they just need another 37% before they can take over. Of course, in that time something may happen to reverse this trend, but I'm rather pessimistic.
At least I will have lived a decently long life by then.

I think it unlikely that such a large jump will occur in just 36 years, but we'll see.
Live Long and Prosper

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"Twilight isn't just about obtuse metaphors between cannibalism and premarital sex, it also teaches us the futility of hope." - Raisor

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debate_power
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9/6/2014 3:35:49 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/5/2014 7:48:50 PM, bsh1 wrote:
Tallinn has accused Moscow of abducting on of Estonia's counterintelligence agents within Estonian borders. If true, this would represent a severe breach of Estonia's sovereignty and territorial integrity, and is esp. significant in that Estonia is a NATO member state.

What, if any, ramifications do you think are likely to ensue from this event, esp. if the allegations turn out to be true?

[http://www.ft.com...]

I don't know about that, but I do know about the American military submarine that was caught in Russian territorial waters not long ago.
You can call me Mark if you like.
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9/6/2014 3:40:01 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/6/2014 3:35:49 PM, debate_power wrote:
At 9/5/2014 7:48:50 PM, bsh1 wrote:
Tallinn has accused Moscow of abducting on of Estonia's counterintelligence agents within Estonian borders. If true, this would represent a severe breach of Estonia's sovereignty and territorial integrity, and is esp. significant in that Estonia is a NATO member state.

What, if any, ramifications do you think are likely to ensue from this event, esp. if the allegations turn out to be true?

[http://www.ft.com...]

I don't know about that, but I do know about the American military submarine that was caught in Russian territorial waters not long ago.

I am not making a claim about who is the "bad guy," although I have my opinions. Finger pointing doesn't actually advance the discussion.
Live Long and Prosper

I'm a Bish.


"Twilight isn't just about obtuse metaphors between cannibalism and premarital sex, it also teaches us the futility of hope." - Raisor

"[Bsh1] is the Guinan of DDO." - ButterCatX

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debate_power
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9/6/2014 3:40:45 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/6/2014 3:40:01 PM, bsh1 wrote:
At 9/6/2014 3:35:49 PM, debate_power wrote:
At 9/5/2014 7:48:50 PM, bsh1 wrote:
Tallinn has accused Moscow of abducting on of Estonia's counterintelligence agents within Estonian borders. If true, this would represent a severe breach of Estonia's sovereignty and territorial integrity, and is esp. significant in that Estonia is a NATO member state.

What, if any, ramifications do you think are likely to ensue from this event, esp. if the allegations turn out to be true?

[http://www.ft.com...]

I don't know about that, but I do know about the American military submarine that was caught in Russian territorial waters not long ago.

I am not making a claim about who is the "bad guy," although I have my opinions. Finger pointing doesn't actually advance the discussion.

Aight then.
You can call me Mark if you like.
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9/6/2014 4:45:54 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
YYW's theory seems ridiculous. That said, though I don't think there's very much here, it is hard to know. I don't think some perimeter branch of the Russian government are going to bag a man just to thumb their nose at the US. I don't think Putin is going to pettily command such a thing. What seems most reasonable here, honestly speaking, is that Estonian officials are squeamish and that their man got corrupted by journalists. Maybe though. Maybe some bunch of bored Russian perimeter patrol men wanted some action and dropped the p and the a and went full troll on a country. Regardless, nothing's going to come out of it. Whole nations aggressing upon pretty much politically insignificant individuals isn't exactly something you can sensibly "blow up".
AnDoctuir
Posts: 11,060
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9/6/2014 4:49:34 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/6/2014 4:45:54 PM, AnDoctuir wrote:
YYW's theory seems ridiculous. That said, though I don't think there's very much here, it is hard to know. I don't think some perimeter branch of the Russian government are going to bag a man just to thumb their nose at the US. I don't think Putin is going to pettily command such a thing. What seems most reasonable here, honestly speaking, is that Estonian officials are squeamish and that their man got corrupted by journalists. Maybe though. Maybe some bunch of bored Russian perimeter patrol men wanted some action and dropped the p and the a and went full troll on a country. Regardless, nothing's going to come out of it. Whole nations aggressing upon pretty much politically insignificant individuals isn't exactly something you can sensibly "blow up".

Or maybe the dude was a legit Estonian spy? I don't know. Still,--and the inhumanity of it aside--this whole thing seems a little bit silly.
AnDoctuir
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9/6/2014 5:03:07 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Dude got sent into a trap by journalists who wanted to print that awesomely evocative title - it's a conspiracy!
charleslb
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9/7/2014 3:23:44 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/5/2014 7:48:50 PM, bsh1 wrote:
Tallinn has accused Moscow of abducting on of Estonia's counterintelligence agents within Estonian borders. If true, this would represent a severe breach of Estonia's sovereignty and territorial integrity, and is esp. significant in that Estonia is a NATO member state.

What, if any, ramifications do you think are likely to ensue from this event, esp. if the allegations turn out to be true?

[http://www.ft.com...]

In all likelihood absolutely nothing will come of the incident.
Yo, all of my subliterate conservative criticasters who find perusing and processing the sesquipedalian verbiage of my posts to be such a bothersome brain-taxing chore, I have a new nickname for you. Henceforth you shall be known as Pooh Bears. No, not for the obvious apt reasons, i.e., not because you're full of pooh, and not because of your ursine irritability. Rather, you put me in mind of an A.A. Milne quote, "I am a Bear of Very Little Brain, and long words bother me". Love ya, Pooh Bears.
LogicalLunatic
Posts: 1,633
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9/7/2014 1:10:39 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/7/2014 3:23:44 AM, charleslb wrote:
At 9/5/2014 7:48:50 PM, bsh1 wrote:
Tallinn has accused Moscow of abducting on of Estonia's counterintelligence agents within Estonian borders. If true, this would represent a severe breach of Estonia's sovereignty and territorial integrity, and is esp. significant in that Estonia is a NATO member state.

What, if any, ramifications do you think are likely to ensue from this event, esp. if the allegations turn out to be true?

[http://www.ft.com...]

In all likelihood absolutely nothing will come of the incident.

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
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