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anti-Zionism equates anti-Semitism?

Emilirose
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9/8/2014 1:43:04 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
What a lot of people overlook is that "Zionism" by definition only means the return of Jews to Israel and Jewish sovereignty. So anyone who is anti-Zionism is actually against Jewish people having their own country, with their own set of freedoms. The Palestinian conflict just isn't a valid enough excuse for the misinterpretation and inaccurate representation of it.
charleslb
Posts: 4,740
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9/8/2014 5:14:06 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/8/2014 1:43:04 PM, Emilirose wrote:
What a lot of people overlook is that "Zionism" by definition only means the return of Jews to Israel and Jewish sovereignty. So anyone who is anti-Zionism is actually against Jewish people having their own country, with their own set of freedoms. The Palestinian conflict just isn't a valid enough excuse for the misinterpretation and inaccurate representation of it.

So, essentially you're saying that those pesky Palestinians and their plight at the hands of a hegemonic Israel are no reason at all to be down on Zionism? Yep, you conservatives are inveterately pro-Israel; and perverse irony of ironies, it's of course rightists who tend to be the most grievous anti-Semites, the folks on the American evangelical right actually supporting the state of Israel because in their eschatological scenario its existence will lead to the Second Coming and the apocalyptic destruction of the Jewish people! Yeah, what love conservative Christians have in their hearts for Jews! It's quite underwhelming indeed.
Yo, all of my subliterate conservative criticasters who find perusing and processing the sesquipedalian verbiage of my posts to be such a bothersome brain-taxing chore, I have a new nickname for you. Henceforth you shall be known as Pooh Bears. No, not for the obvious apt reasons, i.e., not because you're full of pooh, and not because of your ursine irritability. Rather, you put me in mind of an A.A. Milne quote, "I am a Bear of Very Little Brain, and long words bother me". Love ya, Pooh Bears.
Emilirose
Posts: 4
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9/8/2014 6:38:55 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/8/2014 5:14:06 PM, charleslb wrote:
At 9/8/2014 1:43:04 PM, Emilirose wrote:
What a lot of people overlook is that "Zionism" by definition only means the return of Jews to Israel and Jewish sovereignty. So anyone who is anti-Zionism is actually against Jewish people having their own country, with their own set of freedoms. The Palestinian conflict just isn't a valid enough excuse for the misinterpretation and inaccurate representation of it.

So, essentially you're saying that those pesky Palestinians and their plight at the hands of a hegemonic Israel are no reason at all to be down on Zionism? Yep, you conservatives are inveterately pro-Israel; and perverse irony of ironies, it's of course rightists who tend to be the most grievous anti-Semites, the folks on the American evangelical right actually supporting the state of Israel because in their eschatological scenario its existence will lead to the Second Coming and the apocalyptic destruction of the Jewish people! Yeah, what love conservative Christians have in their hearts for Jews! It's quite underwhelming indeed.

Actually, Israel is not the cause of the Palestinian "plight". They are largely responsible for it themselves. If you looked into the history of the conflict, you'd grasp that. Arab disapproval of Jews in the land started over 30 years before Israel was established. Numerous peace proposals have been made on the Israeli side, including sizeable land offers. All such efforts have been rejected and met with even more animosity. It's not Israel that initiates war by firing rockets/missiles and launching terror attacks on civilians .It merely defends itself and puts its people first, unlike Hamas, who have governmental control over Gaza. Within current politics anti-Semitism generally comes from the far left (not right) so your assessment is incorrect. What exactly does the second coming of Christ have to do with anti-Zionism?
Emilirose
Posts: 4
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9/8/2014 6:41:06 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/8/2014 6:38:55 PM, Emilirose wrote:
At 9/8/2014 5:14:06 PM, charleslb wrote:
At 9/8/2014 1:43:04 PM, Emilirose wrote:
What a lot of people overlook is that "Zionism" by definition only means the return of Jews to Israel and Jewish sovereignty. So anyone who is anti-Zionism is actually against Jewish people having their own country, with their own set of freedoms. The Palestinian conflict just isn't a valid enough excuse for the misinterpretation and inaccurate representation of it.

So, essentially you're saying that those pesky Palestinians and their plight at the hands of a hegemonic Israel are no reason at all to be down on Zionism? Yep, you conservatives are inveterately pro-Israel; and perverse irony of ironies, it's of course rightists who tend to be the most grievous anti-Semites, the folks on the American evangelical right actually supporting the state of Israel because in their eschatological scenario its existence will lead to the Second Coming and the apocalyptic destruction of the Jewish people! Yeah, what love conservative Christians have in their hearts for Jews! It's quite underwhelming indeed.

Actually, Israel is not the cause of the Palestinian "plight". They are largely responsible for it themselves. If you looked into the history of the conflict, you'd grasp that. Arab disapproval of Jews in the land started over 30 years before Israel was established. Numerous peace proposals have been made on the Israeli side, including sizeable land offers. All such efforts have been rejected and met with even more animosity. It's not Israel that initiates war by firing rockets/missiles and launching terror attacks on civilians .It merely defends itself and puts its people first, unlike Hamas, who have governmental control over Gaza. Within current politics anti-Semitism generally comes from the far left (not right) so your assessment is incorrect and irrelevant to the topic.
Emilirose
Posts: 4
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9/8/2014 6:42:16 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/8/2014 6:41:06 PM, Emilirose wrote:
At 9/8/2014 6:38:55 PM, Emilirose wrote:
At 9/8/2014 5:14:06 PM, charleslb wrote:
At 9/8/2014 1:43:04 PM, Emilirose wrote:
What a lot of people overlook is that "Zionism" by definition only means the return of Jews to Israel and Jewish sovereignty. So anyone who is anti-Zionism is actually against Jewish people having their own country, with their own set of freedoms. The Palestinian conflict just isn't a valid enough excuse for the misinterpretation and inaccurate representation of it.

So, essentially you're saying that those pesky Palestinians and their plight at the hands of a hegemonic Israel are no reason at all to be down on Zionism? Yep, you conservatives are inveterately pro-Israel; and perverse irony of ironies, it's of course rightists who tend to be the most grievous anti-Semites, the folks on the American evangelical right actually supporting the state of Israel because in their eschatological scenario its existence will lead to the Second Coming and the apocalyptic destruction of the Jewish people! Yeah, what love conservative Christians have in their hearts for Jews! It's quite underwhelming indeed.

Actually, Israel is not the cause of the Palestinian "plight". They are largely responsible for it themselves. If you looked into the history of the conflict, you'd grasp that. Arab disapproval of Jews in the land started over 30 years before Israel was established. Numerous peace proposals have been made on the Israeli side, including sizeable land offers. All such efforts have been rejected and met with even more animosity. It's not Israel that initiates war by firing rockets/missiles and launching terror attacks on civilians .It merely defends itself and puts its people first, unlike Hamas, who have governmental control over Gaza. Within current politics anti-Semitism generally comes from the far left (not right) so your assessment is incorrect.
charleslb
Posts: 4,740
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9/9/2014 1:52:10 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/8/2014 6:38:55 PM, Emilirose wrote:
At 9/8/2014 5:14:06 PM, charleslb wrote:
At 9/8/2014 1:43:04 PM, Emilirose wrote:
What a lot of people overlook is that "Zionism" by definition only means the return of Jews to Israel and Jewish sovereignty. So anyone who is anti-Zionism is actually against Jewish people having their own country, with their own set of freedoms. The Palestinian conflict just isn't a valid enough excuse for the misinterpretation and inaccurate representation of it.

So, essentially you're saying that those pesky Palestinians and their plight at the hands of a hegemonic Israel are no reason at all to be down on Zionism? Yep, you conservatives are inveterately pro-Israel; and perverse irony of ironies, it's of course rightists who tend to be the most grievous anti-Semites, the folks on the American evangelical right actually supporting the state of Israel because in their eschatological scenario its existence will lead to the Second Coming and the apocalyptic destruction of the Jewish people! Yeah, what love conservative Christians have in their hearts for Jews! It's quite underwhelming indeed.

Actually, Israel is not the cause of the Palestinian "plight". They are largely responsible for it themselves.

You've already lost me, as I don't much go in for blaming victims and underdogs.

If you looked into the history of the conflict, you'd grasp that.

I have and I don't.

Arab disapproval of Jews in the land started over 30 years before Israel was established. Numerous peace proposals have been made on the Israeli side, including sizeable land offers. All such efforts have been rejected and met with even more animosity. It's not Israel that initiates war by firing rockets/missiles and launching terror attacks on civilians .It merely defends itself and puts its people first, unlike Hamas, who have governmental control over Gaza.

Yeah, those Arabs and Muslims are just wild-eyed fanatics who are never royally provoked to violent reactions by the behavior of angelic Israel.

Within current politics anti-Semitism generally comes from the far left (not right) so your assessment is incorrect.

Rubbish. The left (which includes many Jews who are most certainly not "self-hating"), having a social-justice orientation, is simply critical of the state of Israel, of its hegemonic and repressive behavior and forms of state terrorism directed against Palestinians and other Arab victims. That being a critic of Israel is tantamount to being anti-Semitic is merely a simpleminded canard designed to discourage quite legitimate criticism of said state. It also, by the way, trivializes genuine anti-Semitism and thereby does a real disservice to the cause of fighting anti-Jewish bigotry.

What exactly does the second coming of Christ have to do with anti-Zionism?

Well, it indeed has quite a lot to do with the pro-Zionism of a great many American conservatives. Say what?! Well, having read a bit too much Hal Lindsey, the lovely folks on the religious right are of the belief that the existence of the state of Israel is going to make possible the Parousia and Armageddon, which will entail the annihilation of the Jews. That is, their support of Israel is a form of "forcing the End", an End Time scenario in which God carries out the total genocide dreamt of by the likes of Hitler, i.e. all Jews will be consigned to a fiery furnace. Mm-hmm, lurking behind their disingenuously pro-Jewish support of Israel is the evangelical conservative's ulterior eschatological agenda of bringing about a horrific culmination of human history in which all Jews and other non-fundamentalist Christians suffer and die, and then suffer everlastingly in a literal hell. So, in short, yes, the conservative's eschatological beliefs can indeed be highly relevant to his/her politics.
Yo, all of my subliterate conservative criticasters who find perusing and processing the sesquipedalian verbiage of my posts to be such a bothersome brain-taxing chore, I have a new nickname for you. Henceforth you shall be known as Pooh Bears. No, not for the obvious apt reasons, i.e., not because you're full of pooh, and not because of your ursine irritability. Rather, you put me in mind of an A.A. Milne quote, "I am a Bear of Very Little Brain, and long words bother me". Love ya, Pooh Bears.
charleslb
Posts: 4,740
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9/9/2014 5:09:52 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/8/2014 1:43:04 PM, Emilirose wrote:
What a lot of people overlook is that "Zionism" by definition only means the return of Jews to Israel and Jewish sovereignty. So anyone who is anti-Zionism is actually against Jewish people having their own country, with their own set of freedoms. The Palestinian conflict just isn't a valid enough excuse for the misinterpretation and inaccurate representation of it.

Well, this is a (speciously) free country (that is, you're a free woman or man except for the large portion of each day of your life spent in the dictatorship of the workplace, as a wage slave subject to the domination of a boss [but hey, one is always perfectly free to quit one's job and go be dominated by a different boss, because jobs are always so plentiful; and, more's the pity, most of us are so thoroughly enculturated to accept the norms and hierarchism of capitalist society that we, the working class, really no longer rankle that much under the autocracy of the workplace unless our manger or capitalist master is a real out-and-out jerk - i.e., as a class we're totally and pathetically whipped]; you're free to have your own idiosyncratic preferences as a consumer, because whether you purchase brand A or brand B you're still opting into the consumerism that ultimately trickles most of our society's wealth up to the corporate & financial elites; you're free to vote in managed elections in which your choice is confined to candidates at best representing different elements of the economic elite; you're free to be disgruntled, as long as you remain an armchair dissident or sublimate your disgruntlement into working within our rigged system, if you take any form of outside-the-system action you're liable to be labeled a "militant" or "terrorist", etc.), so it's your prerogative to go about your conservative community wearing an "I love Israel" T-shirt, and thumbing your nose at the victims of that militaristic and hegemonic state, but please pardon those of us who do in fact care about the dispossessed, disenfranchised, dominated, and terrorized-by-the-IDF Palestinian people; and who do so without in the slightest hating Jews qua Jews, I apparently need to add.
Yo, all of my subliterate conservative criticasters who find perusing and processing the sesquipedalian verbiage of my posts to be such a bothersome brain-taxing chore, I have a new nickname for you. Henceforth you shall be known as Pooh Bears. No, not for the obvious apt reasons, i.e., not because you're full of pooh, and not because of your ursine irritability. Rather, you put me in mind of an A.A. Milne quote, "I am a Bear of Very Little Brain, and long words bother me". Love ya, Pooh Bears.