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Republican Economic Plan

Danielle
Posts: 21,330
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3/23/2010 7:47:57 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
There's been no shortage of liberal bashing and talking about how Democrats are so stupid and economically unreliable. So again I ask: do conservatives have a better plan? Answer - Absolutely not. Yet Republicans are praising Paul Ryan (R- Wisconsin) for his god-awful economic plan which once again revolves around merely decreasing taxes for the wealthy and cutting funding for things like schools, health research, etc.

So what does this plan call for specifically? According to Citizens For Tax Justice, rich citizens would see a $200,000 decrease while those with incomes under $100,000 would see their taxes go up by about $2,000 per year. However, despite paying more money in taxes, these citizens would receive much fewer benefits. But forget that. Assuming for a minute you're of the asinine camp that believes massive amounts of money should be paid to support futile and corrupt wars rather than positive things that benefit society and Americans directly, let's see if the Republican plan is actually better...

The Center for Budget and Policy Priorities analyzes that the federal debt would continue rising in relation to the size of the economy for at least four decades under Ryan's plan. The same organization found that the figures put forth by Ryan's camp about the current plan is false, and that his plan would actually be substantially worse. Extrapolating TPC's revenue estimates beyond 2020 shows that the Ryan plan would fail to stem the rising tide of debt for years to come. The debt would continue to grow in relation to the size of the economy for at least 40 more years — reaching over 175 percent of GDP by 2050. Even by 2080, the debt would still equal about 100 percent of GDP.

As you can see, my main gripe with the Right on issues of economics is that they all seem so ready, like HandsOff, to cry "Waaah liberal economics!" and yet Republicans have completely failed on all accounts to put forth a better, more comprehensible plan that would actually succeed. Until that day, shut up. Nobody's saying they can't disagree with what's going on, but why implement something WORSE?
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wjmelements
Posts: 8,206
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3/23/2010 7:53:23 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
Lwerd, you're smarter than this. Parties are not ideologies. I don't think anyone on this site respects Paul Ryan's plan.
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wjmelements
Posts: 8,206
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3/23/2010 7:55:52 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
It also doesn't help that you're only looking at progressive estimates.
in the blink of an eye you finally see the light
Danielle
Posts: 21,330
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3/23/2010 7:59:04 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 3/23/2010 7:53:23 PM, wjmelements wrote:
Lwerd, you're smarter than this. Parties are not ideologies. I don't think anyone on this site respects Paul Ryan's plan.

Oh, stop trying to discredit what I'm saying with insincere flattery as if I'm wrong. I specifically titled this as Republican Economic Plan and not CONSERVATIVE Economic Plan, this distinguishing between party and ideology. Besides, nobody in the real world cares about your opinion because it means nothing. However, you're wrong -- Republicans who are in office and actually get a say are praising this plan, so where are you getting your information that you don't? Not to mention that Ryan will be in charge of budget policy if Republicans win back Congress. So yeah.
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Danielle
Posts: 21,330
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3/23/2010 8:01:21 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 3/23/2010 7:55:52 PM, wjmelements wrote:
It also doesn't help that you're only looking at progressive estimates.

How are those organizations progressively biased? Please prove this without a source that's biased towards conservatives.
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Danielle
Posts: 21,330
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3/23/2010 8:02:21 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
EDIT

Oh, stop trying to discredit what I'm saying with insincere flattery as if I'm wrong. I specifically titled this as Republican Economic Plan and not CONSERVATIVE Economic Plan, this distinguishing between party and ideology. Besides, nobody in the real world cares about your opinion because it means nothing. However, you're wrong -- Republicans who are in office and actually get a say are praising this plan, so where are you getting your information that they don't? Not to mention that Ryan will be in charge of budget policy if Republicans win back Congress. So yeah.
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wjmelements
Posts: 8,206
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3/23/2010 8:06:42 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 3/23/2010 7:59:04 PM, theLwerd wrote:
At 3/23/2010 7:53:23 PM, wjmelements wrote:
Lwerd, you're smarter than this. Parties are not ideologies. I don't think anyone on this site respects Paul Ryan's plan.

Oh, stop trying to discredit what I'm saying with insincere flattery as if I'm wrong. I specifically titled this as Republican Economic Plan and not CONSERVATIVE Economic Plan, this distinguishing between party and ideology.

I didn't question that. People on this site don't think about parties. We think along ideological lines.

Besides, nobody in the real world cares about your opinion because it means nothing.
lol @ personal attack.

However, you're wrong -- Republicans who are in office and actually get a say are praising this plan, so where are you getting your information that you don't? Not to mention that Ryan will be in charge of budget policy if Republicans win back Congress. So yeah.

Tell me how any of this refutes "I don't think anyone on this site respects Paul Ryan's plan." and I'll give you a cookie.
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wjmelements
Posts: 8,206
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3/23/2010 8:08:16 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 3/23/2010 8:01:21 PM, theLwerd wrote:
At 3/23/2010 7:55:52 PM, wjmelements wrote:
It also doesn't help that you're only looking at progressive estimates.

How are those organizations progressively biased? Please prove this without a source that's biased towards conservatives.

Citizens for Tax Justice: http://www.ctj.org...
Center for Budget and Policy Priorities: http://www.cbpp.org...
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wjmelements
Posts: 8,206
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3/23/2010 8:09:57 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 3/23/2010 7:47:57 PM, theLwerd wrote:
Until that day, shut up. Nobody's saying they can't disagree with what's going on
You seem to be contradicting yourself here. I may be wrong.
The debt would continue to grow in relation to the size of the economy for at least 40 more years — reaching over 175 percent of GDP by 2050. Even by 2080, the debt would still equal about 100 percent of GDP.
Same here. If it's growing in relation to the size of the economy, then why is it shrinking in relation to the size of the economy?
but why implement something WORSE?
How's the deficit doing on the liberal side of the ticket? How much has the defense budget been cut? Has the age of United States imperialism ended?

Lwerd, leave the base of this site free to argue that we shouldn't take either party's poison. The entire OP implies that there is some dilemma between the Republican proposals and the Democratic proposals. If both are negative, then we don't support either. Don't tell us to "SHUT UP" if we point out its flaws.
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Danielle
Posts: 21,330
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3/23/2010 8:17:41 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 3/23/2010 8:06:42 PM, wjmelements wrote:

I didn't question that. People on this site don't think about parties. We think along ideological lines.

... But I never said anything about people on this site. I was talking about REPUBLICANS in Congress who criticize Democrats.

lol @ personal attack.

lol @ you being so sensitive and taking that as a personal attack! How is it a personal attack? Your opinion literally means nothing to anyone aside from yourself, because you're not a law maker... just as nobody cares about my opinion! My point here is that even if YOU don't like Ryan's plan, REPUBLICAN CONGRESSMAN do as I specifically stated to avoid you thinking that I care enough to insult you about this issue. This has nothing to do with you lol get over yourself. I'm talking about the politicians.

Tell me how any of this refutes "I don't think anyone on this site respects Paul Ryan's plan." and I'll give you a cookie.

Oh, so you're allowed to misunderstand something but I'm not? Tell me how anyone in public policy giving a rats a-ss about your opinion and I'll give YOU a cookie. Clearly I misread - I thought you said "Nobody respects PR's plan" and once again my position isn't attacking anyone on this site but Republicans in congress... or I guess Republicans in general, because believe it or not, not everyone on this site is a Libertarian. You think just because YOU might not like PR's plan (which you probably don't even know about or haven't read) that you can speak for everyone on this site? Lol, right. You clearly speak for everyone who isn't a liberal/democrat.

Let me clarify - There's no sense in attacking the democrats when the republicans have put forth something WORSE. Maybe people here don't agree with PR, but you don't see any "Republicans are stupid" posts - just posts about Dems being stupid. It's non-sensical.
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Ragnar_Rahl
Posts: 19,297
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3/23/2010 8:19:28 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
, but you don't see any "Republicans are stupid" posts - just posts about Dems being stupid.
Tell me, Lwerd, who is running the country right now?
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
Danielle
Posts: 21,330
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3/23/2010 8:22:22 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 3/23/2010 8:08:16 PM, wjmelements wrote:
At 3/23/2010 8:01:21 PM, theLwerd wrote:
At 3/23/2010 7:55:52 PM, wjmelements wrote:
It also doesn't help that you're only looking at progressive estimates.

How are those organizations progressively biased? Please prove this without a source that's biased towards conservatives.

Citizens for Tax Justice: http://www.ctj.org...
Center for Budget and Policy Priorities: http://www.cbpp.org...

Yeah, the Center for Budget and PP works to see how policy affects low-income individuals (not necessarily shifting things in their favor... all you did was link to its mission statement which doesn't claim partisanship, so this isn't proof of anything) but I specifically cited the Citizens for Tax Justice which I assume you're submitting as unbiased (since that's what the mission statement says that you linked to) in my original post as being AGAINST the Republican Plan as well.
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Danielle
Posts: 21,330
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3/23/2010 8:29:58 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 3/23/2010 8:19:28 PM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
, but you don't see any "Republicans are stupid" posts - just posts about Dems being stupid.
Tell me, Lwerd, who is running the country right now?

If you read my original post, it's not about who's running the country atm - it's about current proposals. My point is simple. The Democrats have put forth a bad plan. Fine, criticize them. But what's the alternative? Obviously, the Republican plan (a plan from any other party is not and will not be seriously considered any time soon). So, the one alternative plan that has been put forth is worse than the Democratic plan, and the Republicans are still praising it. What I'm saying is that instead of saying "The Republican plan sucks even more, so we might as well choose the lesser of 2 evils" people are just saying "The Democratic plan sucks!" Okay, fine. We know that it sucks. But if it's the better option, why still knock it until a BETTER one is put forth?

Libertarians on this site really don't have a say in anything because they're not influential politicians. I'm talking about realistic legislation being proposed by people who matter (are in office, or a position to make real change). Wjm seems to be under the impression that I'm implying people on this site have to "shut up" about their Libertarian ideals, when really all I'm saying is that they have to shut up about the Dems sucking unless the Republicans - realistically the only opposition to the Dems - come up with a better alternative. You can talk all you want about your Libertarian utopia that will never come into fruition, but I'm talking about the real world. For instance, HandsOff is a Libertarian sided with the Republican; a self-professed Republican and supporter of the right because he considers it the lesser of 2 evils. But, if their plan ISN'T the lesser of the 2 evils, then why support it? I guess that's my question since most Libs on this site identify more with the right.
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Ragnar_Rahl
Posts: 19,297
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3/23/2010 8:38:46 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
If you read my original post, it's not about who's running the country atm

Considering how this guy is one random Republican with a few high random supporters who MAY OR MAY NOT be a republican budgeter after any election (these positions tend to change after elections), we have hard evidence "dems are bad now." We also have hard evidence "Repubs under Bush were bad." But we've got much less information on "Repubs post-Bush."

The Republican plan sucks even more
The plan might be bad, but I didn't really see much that looked like a side-by-side comparison in your post that establishes "worse" to me.
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
belle
Posts: 4,113
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3/23/2010 8:39:45 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 3/23/2010 8:29:58 PM, theLwerd wrote:
Wjm seems to be under the impression that I'm implying people on this site have to "shut up" about their Libertarian ideals, when really all I'm saying is that they have to shut up about the Dems sucking unless the Republicans - realistically the only opposition to the Dems - come up with a better alternative.

wha? thou shalt not criticize a plan if the popular alternative in congress is worse? accepting a bad idea as a good plan because there are worse ideas makes sense how?

democrats are drawing all the fire right now because they're the ones making the major decisions. as far as i know most people (the ones with brains?) think many republican plans are equally bad, if not worse. but theres no need to complain about them since they aren't being made into law and thus aren't of any real consequence for people right now.

it seems like you have it in your head that as citizens we are wasting our time unless we align with one of the major parties because no other groups have power or are in a position to gain it. that may or may not be true (who can predict the future?) but doing it your way is a guarantee that that will be the case.
evidently i only come to ddo to avoid doing homework...
Ragnar_Rahl
Posts: 19,297
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3/23/2010 8:44:04 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
Not to mention, I've never heard of either of these two groups, and since you haven't shown us their methodology, we don't know how biased they are in saying this. Frankly I'd be more apt to trust someone who claimed a socialist bias than someone who claims not to have a political purpose at all. You do not get into the business of politics, in a nonprofit, without an agenda.
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.